I'm playing a Monk who has been drafted to be the 'tank' due to the lack of anyone more suitable in the party (a Bard, a Rogue and a Wizard). I've been looking around for ways to help keep me alive and I've come to the conclusion that causing Disadvantage to my enemies is going to be more effective than boosting my already high AC. The question I have is: what are the best ways to do that?
I am relatively low level (lvl 5 Halfling, Open Hand) so what magic items/spells/tricks are out there that might help me out? I already have Cloak of Displacement on my list. I also noticed that the Frightened condition causes Disadvantage as well as preventing those effected from getting closer to me, which is a win/win here, so are there some easily accessible ways of making me scary?
As a tank forcing disadvantage on attack rolls might not be a good thin, though it depends how intelligent / aware your DM plays the bad guys. If you go into patient defence and the bad guy sees this and knows you will be hard to hit the logical thing to do is attack the low AC wizard with a ranged attack if he can (it will be as disadvantage with you next to him but he is at disadvantage anyway) he could also risk an op attack to go for the wizard.
Stunning strike is amazing when it works (it can not move or carry out actions all attacks are at advantage and auto fail dex / strength saves) but does nothing if they succeed the save.
I would be looking at the bard and wizard to be de-buffing the enemy in all their attacks (vicious mockery, bane, hideous laughter, blindness, hold person etc)
Dodge is obviously an option, though my ability to use it is somewhat constrained since I also need to be attacking and killing things. If I use it as my action then I'm not attacking at all, if I use Patient Defense then I'm using up a Ki (I only have 5 right now) and I'm still loosing a little offensive potential, though it is probably worth it. I'm hoping to find some ways of generating Disadvantage that don't require me use actions or resources every turn.
I do have concerns about enemies just moving past me but if they do that they are probably eating attacks of opportunity and have probably placed themselves in a good position for a pummeling the next turn. I'm not too worried about our Wizard, he hangs out waaayy back from the action (he refers to it as "the place of honor") so he is probably out of sight and/or range from most attacks. This is one of the reasons I was interested in ways to cause Frightened; if I'm up front in a chokepoint, like the end of a narrow hallway, then I can keep anyone who fails their check from getting past me. If they want to take a shot at me, fine. I've got high AC, they have Disadvantage and I can swat the first one who hits out of the air with Deflect Missiles. They can try to shoot past me but hopefully the others have some degree of cover. Restrained looks like it would have similar benefit. Are there some good ways to cause either Frightened or Restrained in large numbers of enemies that I would have access to?
At your next ASI could take Magic initiate (Bard) for Vicious Mockery. If you are worried about them moving past you, you could take the sentinel feat.
At your next ASI could take Magic initiate (Bard) for Vicious Mockery. If you are worried about them moving past you, you could take the sentinel feat.
Our Bard uses that one quite a bit, I will encourage him to continue to do so but I don't think me using a feat to get it is going to be a cost effective. I do like Sentinel but I'm going to need to max out my Dexterity at level 8 so that puts that off quite a bit unless I can get it some other way (I'm not aware of any other way to get feats). I thought about using Polearm Master with a spear for a similar effect but I run into the same problem, I'm not going to be able to get that for quite awhile.
The best way is to work as a team, things that cause frightened and restrained nearly always require an action and affecting multiple people at once is the job of spellcasters. Other than stunned and the free effects when you hit with flurry of blows leave the de buffs to the spellcasters.
It is common for casters to concentrate on damage when they would do better debuffing the enemy if this is the case speak to them about it but it seems at least your bard is on board
The best way is to work as a team, things that cause frightened and restrained nearly always require an action and affecting multiple people at once is the job of spellcasters. Other than stunned and the free effects when you hit with flurry of blows leave the de buffs to the spellcasters.
It is common for casters to concentrate on damage when they would do better debuffing the enemy if this is the case speak to them about it but it seems at least your bard is on board
Ok, so what I'm hearing is that there really isn't much that does what I'm looking for beyond specific spells (which I obviously can't do myself) or very rare magic items (which I likely can't get yet, if at all). If that's the case, that's fine, I just wasn't sure what was out there. I probably should have mentioned up front that I'm new to D&D (but not roleplaying) so I really don't know what options exist beyond what I've picked up or read in the last few months.
Our wizard definitely does like his damage dealing (Fireball is hard to argue with) although he is a Divination wizard so that does help support a bit.
You could also try to grapple opponents so they can't move away. Other then that, I'm out of ideas.
If you knock them prone first, which should be easy for an Open Hand Monk, they will not be able to stand up as long as you maintain the grapple, meaning they will be stuck making attacks at Disadvantage indefinitely until they break free. Granted this only works for two enemies at a time and only Medium enemies at that (Small sized grapplers are at a bit of a disadvantage) but it's still pretty powerful.
So here's how I'd do it: Get into melee range with two enemies that you want to lock down, take the Attack action to make two attacks and have them both be grapple attempts (hope your Athletics score is decent), then Flurry of Blows to force both of them to make Dex saves or go prone. Now you've got two enemies who are making attacks at Disadvantage and your allies will be able to melee them at Advantage. And you can continue to attack them yourself with Advantage. Both of your hands will be occupied keeping them grappled, but you can still make unarmed attacks with your feet or head or shoulders or elbows, etc.
You could also try to grapple opponents so they can't move away. Other then that, I'm out of ideas.
If you knock them prone first, which should be easy for an Open Hand Monk, they will not be able to stand up as long as you maintain the grapple, meaning they will be stuck making attacks at Disadvantage indefinitely until they break free. Granted this only works for two enemies at a time and only Medium enemies at that (Small sized grapplers are at a bit of a disadvantage) but it's still pretty powerful.
So here's how I'd do it: Get into melee range with two enemies that you want to lock down, take the Attack action to make two attacks and have them both be grapple attempts (hope your Athletics score is decent), then Flurry of Blows to force both of them to make Dex saves or go prone. Now you've got two enemies who are making attacks at Disadvantage and your allies will be able to melee them at Advantage. And you can continue to attack them yourself with Advantage. Both of your hands will be occupied keeping them grappled, but you can still make unarmed attacks with your feet or head or shoulders or elbows, etc.
Hmm, now this is interesting. It isn't quite what I was thinking of for general use but it could be very effective against a smaller number of enemies. I do have proficiency in Athletics, my Strength is one of my lower stats but I still have a +4 altogether. The ability to keep attacking with my other limbs is a nice bonus at least for as long as can keep them locked down. Combined with that Potion of Fire Giant Strength we found, this could be a lot of fun...
Hmm, now this is interesting. It isn't quite what I was thinking of for general use but it could be very effective against a smaller number of enemies. I do have proficiency in Athletics, my Strength is one of my lower stats but I still have a +4 altogether. The ability to keep attacking with my other limbs is a nice bonus at least for as long as can keep them locked down. Combined with that Potion of Fire Giant Strength we found, this could be a lot of fun...
If you like this tactic, one level of Rogue can get you Expertise, allowing you to double your proficiency in Athletics. Not to mention Sneak Attack, for when you choose to use finesse or ranged weapons.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
If you like this tactic, one level of Rogue can get you Expertise, allowing you to double your proficiency in Athletics. Not to mention Sneak Attack, for when you choose to use finesse or ranged weapons.
This would be pretty gross and be a pretty quick dip, though I would be tempted to make it 2 levels for Cunning Action. Maybe after I hit level 8 I'll go study with our Rogue for a bit.
Or if your wizzard cast enlarge or enhance ability on you.
Enlarge also has the bonus of an extra 1d4 per attack, with up to four attacks by you that is a nice bonus.
Enlarge would be awesome, particularly because it would just make me only slightly taller than an average human. The advantage on Strength checks would be huge for the grapple idea though. Maybe I should start looking for some Potions of Growth.
When I was making my character I liked the idea of this really small guy kicking everyone's butts, my original idea was a Halfling Barbarian but once I found out how handicapped I would be trying to use large weapons I switched over to Monk. If I was making the character now he would definitely be a Rune Knight Fighter.
Getting back to some earlier ideas, Jegpeg hits the nail on the head. The other players in the party are going to have to step up to help you be the tank so you can stay in the fight.
On thought is that your Rogue should be up there fighting along side you. If he is fighting a "monster" that has an enemy within 5 feet he gets benefits on his fighting, so if he is fighting the same monster as you, he gets benefits too.
Second, I hope your bard chose College of Lore. With College of Lore, the bard gets Cutting Words, a spectacular feature, where the bard may use cutting words to reduce a monster's To-Hit roll by the value of a Bardic Inspiration die, so it starts at d6 and grows. This feature is used after seeing the monster's To-Hit roll, so it in effect allows an AC bonus to one member of the party as long as your bardic inspiration dice last. The feature is used as a reaction, so the bard gets to do something else on his turn and doesn't tie him down to only supporting you with cutting words. Also, Font of Inspiration allows the bard to recover all his bardic inspiration dice on a short rest, so the bard will have lots of uses of Cutting Words every day with two short rests per day.
The biggest problem I see is that if there are a few "monsters" you can't tank them all. Putting all that on you is a "big ask." Good luck and enjoy your holidays.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Our Rogue is primarily a ranged combatant, he has less HP than the Wizard (though significantly better AC) so he tries to stay out of the line of fire. The Bard is College of Valor but he is a Half-Orc so is actually tougher than I am in some respects (I didn't realize this until I had to fill in for him while he was gone last session) so I'm going to encourage him to come up front with me most of the time. I was using Bardic Inspiration on my Monk quite a bit as well, that is something else I'm going to encourage more frequently.
The only problem with Bardic Inspiration in this fashion is that it takes the bard's action to give it out. For what you want, he may as well just cast his cantrip on his action, Vicious Mockery.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Honestly, I think your primary tactic should be dodge (as an action, not with a Ki Point). As the only tank, it’s your job to absorb hits and if there’s multiple enemies surrounding you, then you’ll start to see your damage output get outpaced anyways.
But then what about smart enemies that just avoid you? Remember, you have your Opp Attack and you can stack Stunning Strike on that as well, which means you’ve negates their movement and also made them juicy targets for your allies.
Remember, dodge and AC work REALLY well together. Against something with a +6 to hit, if you have an AC of 16 then it’s a 50% chance to hit you. If your AC is 17, it’s a 45% chance to hit you. However, when you’re dodging with an AC of 16 they have a 30% chance of hitting and only 25% with an AC of 17. That compounds when you’ve got multiple targets hitting you.
So here’s the plan, broken down into steps:
1: move into combat as quickly as possible and get within reach of as many targets as possible. Dodge action.
2: if they all attack you, that’s great! Absorb those blows all day while the rest of your team dominates them from the back ranks. This is actually the most efficient method of being a tank. Once you’re down to 1 or 2 opponents, stop dodging and punish them.
3: If they try to ignore you, use the Opp Attack and Stunning Strikes to punish them. That’s at most, 1 ki point per round and don’t expect them to do it very often because those rounds when they are stunned are going to hurt.
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I'm playing a Monk who has been drafted to be the 'tank' due to the lack of anyone more suitable in the party (a Bard, a Rogue and a Wizard). I've been looking around for ways to help keep me alive and I've come to the conclusion that causing Disadvantage to my enemies is going to be more effective than boosting my already high AC. The question I have is: what are the best ways to do that?
I am relatively low level (lvl 5 Halfling, Open Hand) so what magic items/spells/tricks are out there that might help me out? I already have Cloak of Displacement on my list. I also noticed that the Frightened condition causes Disadvantage as well as preventing those effected from getting closer to me, which is a win/win here, so are there some easily accessible ways of making me scary?
Dodge normally or use Patient Defense for a ki point.
There are several methods out there to impose the Restrained condition, you might have to ask the party about that.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
As a tank forcing disadvantage on attack rolls might not be a good thin, though it depends how intelligent / aware your DM plays the bad guys. If you go into patient defence and the bad guy sees this and knows you will be hard to hit the logical thing to do is attack the low AC wizard with a ranged attack if he can (it will be as disadvantage with you next to him but he is at disadvantage anyway) he could also risk an op attack to go for the wizard.
Stunning strike is amazing when it works (it can not move or carry out actions all attacks are at advantage and auto fail dex / strength saves) but does nothing if they succeed the save.
I would be looking at the bard and wizard to be de-buffing the enemy in all their attacks (vicious mockery, bane, hideous laughter, blindness, hold person etc)
Dodge is obviously an option, though my ability to use it is somewhat constrained since I also need to be attacking and killing things. If I use it as my action then I'm not attacking at all, if I use Patient Defense then I'm using up a Ki (I only have 5 right now) and I'm still loosing a little offensive potential, though it is probably worth it. I'm hoping to find some ways of generating Disadvantage that don't require me use actions or resources every turn.
I do have concerns about enemies just moving past me but if they do that they are probably eating attacks of opportunity and have probably placed themselves in a good position for a pummeling the next turn. I'm not too worried about our Wizard, he hangs out waaayy back from the action (he refers to it as "the place of honor") so he is probably out of sight and/or range from most attacks. This is one of the reasons I was interested in ways to cause Frightened; if I'm up front in a chokepoint, like the end of a narrow hallway, then I can keep anyone who fails their check from getting past me. If they want to take a shot at me, fine. I've got high AC, they have Disadvantage and I can swat the first one who hits out of the air with Deflect Missiles. They can try to shoot past me but hopefully the others have some degree of cover. Restrained looks like it would have similar benefit. Are there some good ways to cause either Frightened or Restrained in large numbers of enemies that I would have access to?
At your next ASI could take Magic initiate (Bard) for Vicious Mockery. If you are worried about them moving past you, you could take the sentinel feat.
When players get creative.
Our Bard uses that one quite a bit, I will encourage him to continue to do so but I don't think me using a feat to get it is going to be a cost effective. I do like Sentinel but I'm going to need to max out my Dexterity at level 8 so that puts that off quite a bit unless I can get it some other way (I'm not aware of any other way to get feats). I thought about using Polearm Master with a spear for a similar effect but I run into the same problem, I'm not going to be able to get that for quite awhile.
The best way is to work as a team, things that cause frightened and restrained nearly always require an action and affecting multiple people at once is the job of spellcasters. Other than stunned and the free effects when you hit with flurry of blows leave the de buffs to the spellcasters.
It is common for casters to concentrate on damage when they would do better debuffing the enemy if this is the case speak to them about it but it seems at least your bard is on board
Ok, so what I'm hearing is that there really isn't much that does what I'm looking for beyond specific spells (which I obviously can't do myself) or very rare magic items (which I likely can't get yet, if at all). If that's the case, that's fine, I just wasn't sure what was out there. I probably should have mentioned up front that I'm new to D&D (but not roleplaying) so I really don't know what options exist beyond what I've picked up or read in the last few months.
Our wizard definitely does like his damage dealing (Fireball is hard to argue with) although he is a Divination wizard so that does help support a bit.
You could also try to grapple opponents so they can't move away. Other then that, I'm out of ideas.
When players get creative.
You could also think of ways to gain advantage on the enemy. That way the fight can be made shorter.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
If you knock them prone first, which should be easy for an Open Hand Monk, they will not be able to stand up as long as you maintain the grapple, meaning they will be stuck making attacks at Disadvantage indefinitely until they break free. Granted this only works for two enemies at a time and only Medium enemies at that (Small sized grapplers are at a bit of a disadvantage) but it's still pretty powerful.
So here's how I'd do it: Get into melee range with two enemies that you want to lock down, take the Attack action to make two attacks and have them both be grapple attempts (hope your Athletics score is decent), then Flurry of Blows to force both of them to make Dex saves or go prone. Now you've got two enemies who are making attacks at Disadvantage and your allies will be able to melee them at Advantage. And you can continue to attack them yourself with Advantage. Both of your hands will be occupied keeping them grappled, but you can still make unarmed attacks with your feet or head or shoulders or elbows, etc.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Hmm, now this is interesting. It isn't quite what I was thinking of for general use but it could be very effective against a smaller number of enemies. I do have proficiency in Athletics, my Strength is one of my lower stats but I still have a +4 altogether. The ability to keep attacking with my other limbs is a nice bonus at least for as long as can keep them locked down. Combined with that Potion of Fire Giant Strength we found, this could be a lot of fun...
If you like this tactic, one level of Rogue can get you Expertise, allowing you to double your proficiency in Athletics. Not to mention Sneak Attack, for when you choose to use finesse or ranged weapons.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Oh yes, I forgot, this gets even easier if you manage to get them stunned first.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Or if your wizzard cast enlarge or enhance ability on you.
Enlarge also has the bonus of an extra 1d4 per attack, with up to four attacks by you that is a nice bonus.
Attack: [roll]3d20dl2+6[/roll] Damage: [roll](if([roll:-1:critical], =0, 1d8, 2{1d8}.expand()))+4[/roll] Sneakattack: [roll](if([roll:-2:critical], =0, 2d6, 2{2d6}.expand()))[/roll]This would be pretty gross and be a pretty quick dip, though I would be tempted to make it 2 levels for Cunning Action. Maybe after I hit level 8 I'll go study with our Rogue for a bit.
Enlarge would be awesome, particularly because it would just make me only slightly taller than an average human. The advantage on Strength checks would be huge for the grapple idea though. Maybe I should start looking for some Potions of Growth.
When I was making my character I liked the idea of this really small guy kicking everyone's butts, my original idea was a Halfling Barbarian but once I found out how handicapped I would be trying to use large weapons I switched over to Monk. If I was making the character now he would definitely be a Rune Knight Fighter.
Getting back to some earlier ideas, Jegpeg hits the nail on the head. The other players in the party are going to have to step up to help you be the tank so you can stay in the fight.
On thought is that your Rogue should be up there fighting along side you. If he is fighting a "monster" that has an enemy within 5 feet he gets benefits on his fighting, so if he is fighting the same monster as you, he gets benefits too.
Second, I hope your bard chose College of Lore. With College of Lore, the bard gets Cutting Words, a spectacular feature, where the bard may use cutting words to reduce a monster's To-Hit roll by the value of a Bardic Inspiration die, so it starts at d6 and grows. This feature is used after seeing the monster's To-Hit roll, so it in effect allows an AC bonus to one member of the party as long as your bardic inspiration dice last. The feature is used as a reaction, so the bard gets to do something else on his turn and doesn't tie him down to only supporting you with cutting words. Also, Font of Inspiration allows the bard to recover all his bardic inspiration dice on a short rest, so the bard will have lots of uses of Cutting Words every day with two short rests per day.
The biggest problem I see is that if there are a few "monsters" you can't tank them all. Putting all that on you is a "big ask." Good luck and enjoy your holidays.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Our Rogue is primarily a ranged combatant, he has less HP than the Wizard (though significantly better AC) so he tries to stay out of the line of fire. The Bard is College of Valor but he is a Half-Orc so is actually tougher than I am in some respects (I didn't realize this until I had to fill in for him while he was gone last session) so I'm going to encourage him to come up front with me most of the time. I was using Bardic Inspiration on my Monk quite a bit as well, that is something else I'm going to encourage more frequently.
The only problem with Bardic Inspiration in this fashion is that it takes the bard's action to give it out. For what you want, he may as well just cast his cantrip on his action, Vicious Mockery.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Honestly, I think your primary tactic should be dodge (as an action, not with a Ki Point). As the only tank, it’s your job to absorb hits and if there’s multiple enemies surrounding you, then you’ll start to see your damage output get outpaced anyways.
But then what about smart enemies that just avoid you? Remember, you have your Opp Attack and you can stack Stunning Strike on that as well, which means you’ve negates their movement and also made them juicy targets for your allies.
Remember, dodge and AC work REALLY well together. Against something with a +6 to hit, if you have an AC of 16 then it’s a 50% chance to hit you. If your AC is 17, it’s a 45% chance to hit you. However, when you’re dodging with an AC of 16 they have a 30% chance of hitting and only 25% with an AC of 17. That compounds when you’ve got multiple targets hitting you.
So here’s the plan, broken down into steps:
1: move into combat as quickly as possible and get within reach of as many targets as possible. Dodge action.
2: if they all attack you, that’s great! Absorb those blows all day while the rest of your team dominates them from the back ranks. This is actually the most efficient method of being a tank. Once you’re down to 1 or 2 opponents, stop dodging and punish them.
3: If they try to ignore you, use the Opp Attack and Stunning Strikes to punish them. That’s at most, 1 ki point per round and don’t expect them to do it very often because those rounds when they are stunned are going to hurt.