Trying to build a melee-centric character that is nevertheless nimble. Since I won't be using VHuman, I was thinking of building around use of a polearm. The problem is that I would already have my bonus action spoken for, so half the benefit of PAM is out the window already. I really like the idea of Sentinel, but it seems to be limited in effectiveness if I don't also get PAM. Assuming that the campaign doesn't go much beyond level 12, what are my best options?
While you'd loose on Polearm Master synergy, Sentinel is still effective by design. Feat such as Great Weapon Master also rely on bonus action so i assume it's out of question then depending on your weapon you could look for Piercer or Slasher?
Sorry, I don't understand the synergy between Piercer/Slasher and the Sentinel feat. Or...are you saying that those feats are better than Sentinel in the first place? I don't plan on making a crit fish build, if that's helpful.
Sorry, I don't understand the synergy between Piercer/Slasher and the Sentinel feat. Or...are you saying that those feats are better than Sentinel in the first place? I don't plan on making a crit fish build, if that's helpful.
I was suggesting Sentinel + 2nd choice of feat instead of Polearm Master or Great Weapon Master that have bonus action attack since yours is spoken for as you said. Such feat can be put to good use with a melee weapon user and since you said polearm, here i assume it will be one of the reach weapon, which are either slashing or piercing weapons. Beside Fighting Style feats, these could be good options depending on the weapon you want to use. What will be your main weapon?
Trying to build a melee-centric character that is nevertheless nimble. Since I won't be using VHuman, I was thinking of building around use of a polearm. The problem is that I would already have my bonus action spoken for, so half the benefit of PAM is out the window already. I really like the idea of Sentinel, but it seems to be limited in effectiveness if I don't also get PAM. Assuming that the campaign doesn't go much beyond level 12, what are my best options?
Sentinel isn't dependent on PAM for effectiveness, that isn't even an intended synergy (which is why it's gone in 2024). It is not, however, designed to work with polearms, since its actual intended use case (a foe within 5' attacks a target other than you) means you can't take advantage of reach.
How attached are you to polearms in general? Honestly, when I hear nimble melee-centric character, my thoughts head towards monk and swashbuckler rogue, neither of which has any reason to ever use a polearm. Also, what is consuming your bonus action?
Trying to build a melee-centric character that is nevertheless nimble. Since I won't be using VHuman, I was thinking of building around use of a polearm. The problem is that I would already have my bonus action spoken for, so half the benefit of PAM is out the window already. I really like the idea of Sentinel, but it seems to be limited in effectiveness if I don't also get PAM. Assuming that the campaign doesn't go much beyond level 12, what are my best options?
Sentinel isn't dependent on PAM for effectiveness, that isn't even an intended synergy (which is why it's gone in 2024). It is not, however, designed to work with polearms, since its actual intended use case (a foe within 5' attacks a target other than you) means you can't take advantage of reach.
How attached are you to polearms in general? Honestly, when I hear nimble melee-centric character, my thoughts head towards monk and swashbuckler rogue, neither of which has any reason to ever use a polearm. Also, what is consuming your bonus action?
I wouldn't say that. Both versions of Polearm Master expressly work with the quarterstaff and spear, and the monk is proficient with both. It's just that the Pole Strike was practically useless to them in the 2014 rules. But just looking at the new DMG, we have:
And that doesn't include flat numerical bonuses or weapons from modules, like the Blood Spear from Curse of Strahd.
Edit: Okay, so some of these are linking to the 2014 version and not the 2024 version, and I don't know how to fix that. Everyone one of these is compatible with the quarterstaff, spear, or both in the 2024 rules.
Sorry, I don't understand the synergy between Piercer/Slasher and the Sentinel feat. Or...are you saying that those feats are better than Sentinel in the first place? I don't plan on making a crit fish build, if that's helpful.
I was suggesting Sentinel + 2nd choice of feat instead of Polearm Master or Great Weapon Master that have bonus action attack since yours is spoken for as you said. Such feat can be put to good use with a melee weapon user and since you said polearm, here i assume it will be one of the reach weapon, which are either slashing or piercing weapons. Beside Fighting Style feats, these could be good options depending on the weapon you want to use. What will be your main weapon?
My main weapon will alternate between a polearm and a longsword. My BAction is occupied by one of the core features of my Ranger, which is one from XGTE. The point of using a polearm is three-fold: 1) Attack creatures with weapon without having to get within 5 feet of them; 2) Maximize damage while doing so; 3) Stop them from getting closer to me after I hit them once I hit with an Opportunity Attack from Sentinel. The issue is that b/c my subclass is highly BA dependent, I will miss out on the BA attack from PAM a lot of the time.
Trying to build a melee-centric character that is nevertheless nimble. Since I won't be using VHuman, I was thinking of building around use of a polearm. The problem is that I would already have my bonus action spoken for, so half the benefit of PAM is out the window already. I really like the idea of Sentinel, but it seems to be limited in effectiveness if I don't also get PAM. Assuming that the campaign doesn't go much beyond level 12, what are my best options?
Sentinel isn't dependent on PAM for effectiveness, that isn't even an intended synergy (which is why it's gone in 2024). It is not, however, designed to work with polearms, since its actual intended use case (a foe within 5' attacks a target other than you) means you can't take advantage of reach.
How attached are you to polearms in general? Honestly, when I hear nimble melee-centric character, my thoughts head towards monk and swashbuckler rogue, neither of which has any reason to ever use a polearm. Also, what is consuming your bonus action?
The campaign is a mix of 2014 and 2024 rules. I'm not sure yet how feats from the 2014 PHB that are no longer in the 2024 PHB will be handled. I guess that possibly makes part of my query moot.
The campaign is a mix of 2014 and 2024 rules. I'm not sure yet how feats from the 2014 PHB that are no longer in the 2024 PHB will be handled. I guess that possibly makes part of my query moot.
Both feats still exist, it's just the "I hit with an opportunity attack and stop the opponent before it can ever reach me and attack me" is gone.
The campaign is a mix of 2014 and 2024 rules. I'm not sure yet how feats from the 2014 PHB that are no longer in the 2024 PHB will be handled. I guess that possibly makes part of my query moot.
Both feats still exist, it's just the "I hit with an opportunity attack and stop the opponent before it can ever reach me and attack me" is gone.
...you mean because the text for PAM has been changed so that it is no longer an Opportunity Attack but an attack using Reaction, right?
Seems like a distinction without a difference, to me.
Of course, the 2024 feat also comes with a +1 bonus to either Strength or Dexterity. I say just use the modern one.
Pretty sure it's significant since the 2014 PAM+Sentinel means you could hit with polearm as Opportunity Attack, which stopped approaching Foe from getting closer than 10 feet.
Trying to build a melee-centric character that is nevertheless nimble. Since I won't be using VHuman, I was thinking of building around use of a polearm. The problem is that I would already have my bonus action spoken for, so half the benefit of PAM is out the window already. I really like the idea of Sentinel, but it seems to be limited in effectiveness if I don't also get PAM. Assuming that the campaign doesn't go much beyond level 12, what are my best options?
While you'd loose on Polearm Master synergy, Sentinel is still effective by design. Feat such as Great Weapon Master also rely on bonus action so i assume it's out of question then depending on your weapon you could look for Piercer or Slasher?
Sorry, I don't understand the synergy between Piercer/Slasher and the Sentinel feat. Or...are you saying that those feats are better than Sentinel in the first place? I don't plan on making a crit fish build, if that's helpful.
I was suggesting Sentinel + 2nd choice of feat instead of Polearm Master or Great Weapon Master that have bonus action attack since yours is spoken for as you said. Such feat can be put to good use with a melee weapon user and since you said polearm, here i assume it will be one of the reach weapon, which are either slashing or piercing weapons. Beside Fighting Style feats, these could be good options depending on the weapon you want to use. What will be your main weapon?
Sentinel isn't dependent on PAM for effectiveness, that isn't even an intended synergy (which is why it's gone in 2024). It is not, however, designed to work with polearms, since its actual intended use case (a foe within 5' attacks a target other than you) means you can't take advantage of reach.
How attached are you to polearms in general? Honestly, when I hear nimble melee-centric character, my thoughts head towards monk and swashbuckler rogue, neither of which has any reason to ever use a polearm. Also, what is consuming your bonus action?
I wouldn't say that. Both versions of Polearm Master expressly work with the quarterstaff and spear, and the monk is proficient with both. It's just that the Pole Strike was practically useless to them in the 2014 rules. But just looking at the new DMG, we have:
And that doesn't include flat numerical bonuses or weapons from modules, like the Blood Spear from Curse of Strahd.
Edit: Okay, so some of these are linking to the 2014 version and not the 2024 version, and I don't know how to fix that. Everyone one of these is compatible with the quarterstaff, spear, or both in the 2024 rules.
Without pam
How often do enemies in your campaigns run away giving you attacks of opportunity or take the disengage action?
How often are you fighting against a monster side by side with another ally so the sentinel reaction attack gets triggered?
If those happen frequently in your campaigns then sentinel will be amazing.
Otherwise its a feat that sounds good but ends up being kind of okay but not amazing in practice.
In our campaign we're two with the Sentinel feat and always try to be adjacent to the same enemy for a catch-22
My main weapon will alternate between a polearm and a longsword. My BAction is occupied by one of the core features of my Ranger, which is one from XGTE. The point of using a polearm is three-fold: 1) Attack creatures with weapon without having to get within 5 feet of them; 2) Maximize damage while doing so; 3) Stop them from getting closer to me after I hit them once I hit with an Opportunity Attack from Sentinel. The issue is that b/c my subclass is highly BA dependent, I will miss out on the BA attack from PAM a lot of the time.
The campaign is a mix of 2014 and 2024 rules. I'm not sure yet how feats from the 2014 PHB that are no longer in the 2024 PHB will be handled. I guess that possibly makes part of my query moot.
Both feats still exist, it's just the "I hit with an opportunity attack and stop the opponent before it can ever reach me and attack me" is gone.
...you mean because the text for PAM has been changed so that it is no longer an Opportunity Attack but an attack using Reaction, right?
Seems like a distinction without a difference, to me.
Of course, the 2024 feat also comes with a +1 bonus to either Strength or Dexterity. I say just use the modern one.
Pretty sure it's significant since the 2014 PAM+Sentinel means you could hit with polearm as Opportunity Attack, which stopped approaching Foe from getting closer than 10 feet.
Consider also that a few things like Shocking Grasp that used to block the use of all reactions now only block the use of opportunity attacks.
pronouns: he/she/they
Correct. Since it no longer reduces speed to zero, the victim can continue moving and proceed to whomp on you.
Thank you to everyone. Given the rule changes to PAM and Sentinel, I will likely not use either Feat for this particular character.