In the latest playtest Bards are only able to prepare Arcane spells from the schools of Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, or Transmutation until they get the new version of Magical Secrets when they can either expand to the full arcane list, or add the divine or primal lists. The recommended spells for a 3rd level Bard include Shatter, which I don't think should be possible unless I'm missing something.
3RD-LEVEL BARD 1st-Level Spells: Charm Person 2nd-Level Spells: Blur, Shatter
This setup seems a little overly complicated and I miss the mish-mash of spells on the current Bard spell list.
In the latest playtest Bards are only able to prepare Arcane spells from the schools of Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, or Transmutation until they get the new version of Magical Secrets when they can either expand to the full arcane list, or add the divine or primal lists. The recommended spells for a 3rd level Bard include Shatter, which I don't think should be possible unless I'm missing something.
3RD-LEVEL BARD 1st-Level Spells: Charm Person 2nd-Level Spells: Blur, Shatter
This setup seems a little overly complicated and I miss the mish-mash of spells on the current Bard spell list.
Shatter had its school changed to transmutation. I was wondering the same thing for a bit.
It also doesn't work for what they are trying to do. they are trying to make it easier to add spells later, but if they want to add a defensive spell or a healing spell to the bard they simply can't without also adding it to the wizard. This is why I think they should make it where bards get ALL enchantment and illusion spells, divination and transmutation from arcane and then abjuration and necromancy from primal instead of the songs of restoration. Then prepare spells equal to level + charisma. it may be nearly as complicated, but it is also future proofs a lot more problems.
The other option is to, of course, give bards a 4th source of magic called "artistry".
A third option is have subclass lists that work like we had in Tasha sorcerer. Don't like the spells offered? Here's some more spells added to your list you can prepare. This way its trivial to add some primal/divne spells like Bane, Faerie Fire and Heroism, and you can swap them out for a different enchant/illusion/transmute/divination spell from those lists.
Shatter had its school changed to transmutation. I was wondering the same thing for a bit.
That's the missing piece. Interesting way around the problem of getting the bard some offense in this paradigm. I do miss the mix of primal spells in there. The bard in our party was pretty keen on speaking to animals early on. Maybe magical secrets just needs to come online earlier? Swappable spells as part of the Bard College would also be a solution as Mephista suggests, but just using the feature they already have might keep it cleaner. I think I'd prefer the first magical secrets in place of Songs of Restoration.
Prepared spells using the same table as spell slots is not something I am a fan of
Shatter had its school changed to transmutation. I was wondering the same thing for a bit.
That's the missing piece. Interesting way around the problem of getting the bard some offense in this paradigm. I do miss the mix of primal spells in there. The bard in our party was pretty keen on speaking to animals early on. Maybe magical secrets just needs to come online earlier? Swappable spells as part of the Bard College would also be a solution as Mephista suggests, but just using the feature they already have might keep it cleaner. I think I'd prefer the first magical secrets in place of Songs of Restoration.
Prepared spells using the same table as spell slots is not something I am a fan of
We'll have to see what they plan for Sorcerer to really get into a discussion of what Bard limitations would make sense, but right now I'd argue that if you want to restrict a full caster to half the spell schools, you shouldn't also restrict the list - why not give Bard half-school access to Arcane and Primal and Divine?
Shatter had its school changed to transmutation. I was wondering the same thing for a bit.
That's the missing piece. Interesting way around the problem of getting the bard some offense in this paradigm. I do miss the mix of primal spells in there. The bard in our party was pretty keen on speaking to animals early on. Maybe magical secrets just needs to come online earlier? Swappable spells as part of the Bard College would also be a solution as Mephista suggests, but just using the feature they already have might keep it cleaner. I think I'd prefer the first magical secrets in place of Songs of Restoration.
Prepared spells using the same table as spell slots is not something I am a fan of
We'll have to see what they plan for Sorcerer to really get into a discussion of what Bard limitations would make sense, but right now I'd argue that if you want to restrict a full caster to half the spell schools, you shouldn't also restrict the list - why not give Bard half-school access to Arcane and Primal and Divine?
After a quick perusal, that suggestion might not be too out of line, but my main reason for supporting it would be to see a bard cast shillelagh on their lute and smack someone over the head with it.
After a quick perusal, that suggestion might not be too out of line, but my main reason for supporting it would be to see a bard cast shillelagh on their lute and smack someone over the head with it.
This is one of these cases where I just shake my head in disbelief thinking, "why haven't I come up with this genius thought?". Now I'll be unable to build a bard without shillelagh for this very reason. Must. Get. Shillelagh.
We'll have to see what they plan for Sorcerer to really get into a discussion of what Bard limitations would make sense, but right now I'd argue that if you want to restrict a full caster to half the spell schools, you shouldn't also restrict the list - why not give Bard half-school access to Arcane and Primal and Divine?
I agree. The current iteration feels too limited. Given the spell overlap between those schools across the spell lists, this seems like it wouldn't be too crazy. I think it makes the choice of what spell list to choose for the new Magical Secrets more interesting.
Perhaps preparing spells equal to level + proficiency since they are moving away from tying uses to ability modifiers. Being a prepared caster wouldn't remove my desire to have more than one option for my higher level spell slots.
Sadly, the spells that I liked best are now off my list. I had a very specific kind of bard planned for our playtest campaign. Basically sort of a morale officer/NCO kind of character...support the guys, get them in the right place, etc. Heroism was hugely valuable, and I loved having Cure Wounds. (My backup to Heroism was going to be Faerie Fire...but...not now.) Basically, most of the spells I really wanted are out of the list. (Plus, playing the bard who proudly never studied anything is out, since Lore is the only polished subclass.)
Making Bard a prepared spell class? That's a massive positive change though. I just wish I could prepare the spells I used to use.
I think the spells make for a very "bardy" bard, and it's flavorful. But it wasn't at all the kind of bard I want to play. I'm hoping that some bards get expanded lists for their Songs of Renewal when other subclasses come out.
I do not like the idea that Bards are superior healers. They should get a very limited amount of spell to do that, but now they even get mass healing...
I do not like the idea that Bards are superior healers. They should get a very limited amount of spell to do that, but now they even get mass healing...
You do realize base phb 2014 bard had mass cure wounds and tasha's gave them mass healing word
I do not like the idea that Bards are superior healers. They should get a very limited amount of spell to do that, but now they even get mass healing...
You do realize base phb 2014 bard had mass cure wounds and tasha's gave them mass healing word
Yeah, but it is true that in the current iteration of the UA all the healing spells listed for them would be always prepared. Previously they had the chance to choose them, but often didn't. Also, they seem to have gotten additional healing through Bardic Inspiration.
Yeah, but it is true that in the current iteration of the UA all the healing spells listed for them would be always prepared. Previously they had the chance to choose them, but often didn't. Also, they seem to have gotten additional healing through Bardic Inspiration.
Hell, they don't even get access to some of the more "situational but pretty useful when they come up" type of status-removing spells like dispel magic, protection from poison, and remove curse.
So while I think the healing spells they do get by default aren't bad, I wouldn't call them "superior healers" to clerics and druids as it stands.
Yeah, but it is true that in the current iteration of the UA all the healing spells listed for them would be always prepared. Previously they had the chance to choose them, but often didn't. Also, they seem to have gotten additional healing through Bardic Inspiration.
Hell, they don't even get access to some of the more "situational but pretty useful when they come up" type of status-removing spells like dispel magic, protection from poison, and remove curse.
So while I think the healing spells they do get by default aren't bad, I wouldn't call them "superior healers" to clerics and druids as it stands.
I'd go further and say they're barely surpassing Ranger and definitely behind 5E paladin, have to see what one D&D paladin gets when priest classes come out. Inspiration reaction heals only thing keeping bard above ranger.
Yeah, but it is true that in the current iteration of the UA all the healing spells listed for them would be always prepared. Previously they had the chance to choose them, but often didn't. Also, they seem to have gotten additional healing through Bardic Inspiration.
Hell, they don't even get access to some of the more "situational but pretty useful when they come up" type of status-removing spells like dispel magic, protection from poison, and remove curse.
So while I think the healing spells they do get by default aren't bad, I wouldn't call them "superior healers" to clerics and druids as it stands.
I'd go further and say they're barely surpassing Ranger and definitely behind 5E paladin, have to see what one D&D paladin gets when priest classes come out. Inspiration reaction heals only thing keeping bard above ranger.
And from playing this weekend with the new rules, that healing version isn't as useful as it might seem. It's best use is for saving someone from dropping. But if they get dropped with an early attack in a multi-attack routine, or by the first mob of 3 attacking them, you're mostly just keeping them up to get dropped anyway that same round.
In practice, Bardic Inspiration has dropped way back in usefulness and my healing ability has taken a huge hit.
And from playing this weekend with the new rules, that healing version isn't as useful as it might seem. It's best use is for saving someone from dropping. But if they get dropped with an early attack in a multi-attack routine, or by the first mob of 3 attacking them, you're mostly just keeping them up to get dropped anyway that same round.
In practice, Bardic Inspiration has dropped way back in usefulness and my healing ability has taken a huge hit.
Well this actually begs a question, what is meant to happen with Bardic Inspiration heal on a character that drops to 0HP. Obviously they recover HP but do they drop prone still or not? If they drop prone in the middle of a multi-attack.... I do also think a 1d6 is pretty underwhelming for a heal, that is worse than a healing word.
And from playing this weekend with the new rules, that healing version isn't as useful as it might seem. It's best use is for saving someone from dropping. But if they get dropped with an early attack in a multi-attack routine, or by the first mob of 3 attacking them, you're mostly just keeping them up to get dropped anyway that same round.
In practice, Bardic Inspiration has dropped way back in usefulness and my healing ability has taken a huge hit.
Well this actually begs a question, what is meant to happen with Bardic Inspiration heal on a character that drops to 0HP. Obviously they recover HP but do they drop prone still or not? If they drop prone in the middle of a multi-attack.... I do also think a 1d6 is pretty underwhelming for a heal, that is worse than a healing word.
Our group settled on the idea that, since it uses a reaction, it's landing before they drop. Damage takes them to zero, you use the reaction and heal them back 1d6 and you inspire them to keep on fighting because you are an inspirational machine.
Because if not, then it's even worse. You just heal them so they can be attacked while prone with advantage. Which is only ever useful if you have a particularly murderous NPC that takes blows on downed characters anyways.
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In the latest playtest Bards are only able to prepare Arcane spells from the schools of Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, or Transmutation until they get the new version of Magical Secrets when they can either expand to the full arcane list, or add the divine or primal lists. The recommended spells for a 3rd level Bard include Shatter, which I don't think should be possible unless I'm missing something.
3RD-LEVEL BARD
1st-Level Spells: Charm Person
2nd-Level Spells: Blur, Shatter
This setup seems a little overly complicated and I miss the mish-mash of spells on the current Bard spell list.
Shatter had its school changed to transmutation. I was wondering the same thing for a bit.
It also doesn't work for what they are trying to do. they are trying to make it easier to add spells later, but if they want to add a defensive spell or a healing spell to the bard they simply can't without also adding it to the wizard. This is why I think they should make it where bards get ALL enchantment and illusion spells, divination and transmutation from arcane and then abjuration and necromancy from primal instead of the songs of restoration. Then prepare spells equal to level + charisma. it may be nearly as complicated, but it is also future proofs a lot more problems.
The other option is to, of course, give bards a 4th source of magic called "artistry".
A third option is have subclass lists that work like we had in Tasha sorcerer. Don't like the spells offered? Here's some more spells added to your list you can prepare. This way its trivial to add some primal/divne spells like Bane, Faerie Fire and Heroism, and you can swap them out for a different enchant/illusion/transmute/divination spell from those lists.
That's the missing piece. Interesting way around the problem of getting the bard some offense in this paradigm. I do miss the mix of primal spells in there. The bard in our party was pretty keen on speaking to animals early on. Maybe magical secrets just needs to come online earlier? Swappable spells as part of the Bard College would also be a solution as Mephista suggests, but just using the feature they already have might keep it cleaner. I think I'd prefer the first magical secrets in place of Songs of Restoration.
Prepared spells using the same table as spell slots is not something I am a fan of
We'll have to see what they plan for Sorcerer to really get into a discussion of what Bard limitations would make sense, but right now I'd argue that if you want to restrict a full caster to half the spell schools, you shouldn't also restrict the list - why not give Bard half-school access to Arcane and Primal and Divine?
After a quick perusal, that suggestion might not be too out of line, but my main reason for supporting it would be to see a bard cast shillelagh on their lute and smack someone over the head with it.
This is one of these cases where I just shake my head in disbelief thinking, "why haven't I come up with this genius thought?". Now I'll be unable to build a bard without shillelagh for this very reason. Must. Get. Shillelagh.
I agree. The current iteration feels too limited. Given the spell overlap between those schools across the spell lists, this seems like it wouldn't be too crazy. I think it makes the choice of what spell list to choose for the new Magical Secrets more interesting.
Perhaps preparing spells equal to level + proficiency since they are moving away from tying uses to ability modifiers. Being a prepared caster wouldn't remove my desire to have more than one option for my higher level spell slots.
Can't you just grab a background that gives you Magic Initiate (Druid stuff) at first (raised by crazy hermit music man).
Get yourself Shillelagh, Druidcraft, and Faerie Fire
Sadly, the spells that I liked best are now off my list. I had a very specific kind of bard planned for our playtest campaign. Basically sort of a morale officer/NCO kind of character...support the guys, get them in the right place, etc. Heroism was hugely valuable, and I loved having Cure Wounds. (My backup to Heroism was going to be Faerie Fire...but...not now.) Basically, most of the spells I really wanted are out of the list. (Plus, playing the bard who proudly never studied anything is out, since Lore is the only polished subclass.)
Making Bard a prepared spell class? That's a massive positive change though. I just wish I could prepare the spells I used to use.
I think the spells make for a very "bardy" bard, and it's flavorful. But it wasn't at all the kind of bard I want to play. I'm hoping that some bards get expanded lists for their Songs of Renewal when other subclasses come out.
I do not like the idea that Bards are superior healers. They should get a very limited amount of spell to do that, but now they even get mass healing...
Superior? They're very bare bones in the healing department... I really don't get where people are thinking bards will make a good healer...
You do realize base phb 2014 bard had mass cure wounds and tasha's gave them mass healing word
Yeah, but it is true that in the current iteration of the UA all the healing spells listed for them would be always prepared. Previously they had the chance to choose them, but often didn't. Also, they seem to have gotten additional healing through Bardic Inspiration.
They don't get access to prayer of healing, mass cure wounds, cure wounds, revivify, heal, mass heal, aura of vitality, and so on unless they take them through Magical Secrets, especially now that all those spells are abjuration (except Revivify, which is necromancy), which Bard doesn't have access to by default.
Hell, they don't even get access to some of the more "situational but pretty useful when they come up" type of status-removing spells like dispel magic, protection from poison, and remove curse.
So while I think the healing spells they do get by default aren't bad, I wouldn't call them "superior healers" to clerics and druids as it stands.
I'd go further and say they're barely surpassing Ranger and definitely behind 5E paladin, have to see what one D&D paladin gets when priest classes come out. Inspiration reaction heals only thing keeping bard above ranger.
And from playing this weekend with the new rules, that healing version isn't as useful as it might seem. It's best use is for saving someone from dropping. But if they get dropped with an early attack in a multi-attack routine, or by the first mob of 3 attacking them, you're mostly just keeping them up to get dropped anyway that same round.
In practice, Bardic Inspiration has dropped way back in usefulness and my healing ability has taken a huge hit.
Well this actually begs a question, what is meant to happen with Bardic Inspiration heal on a character that drops to 0HP. Obviously they recover HP but do they drop prone still or not? If they drop prone in the middle of a multi-attack.... I do also think a 1d6 is pretty underwhelming for a heal, that is worse than a healing word.
Our group settled on the idea that, since it uses a reaction, it's landing before they drop. Damage takes them to zero, you use the reaction and heal them back 1d6 and you inspire them to keep on fighting because you are an inspirational machine.
Because if not, then it's even worse. You just heal them so they can be attacked while prone with advantage. Which is only ever useful if you have a particularly murderous NPC that takes blows on downed characters anyways.