The new One D&D playtest includes a new mechanic where a natural 20 is awarded with not only automatic success but Inspiration. I understand the logic behind this, but I feel like getting a natural 20 is already fun and exciting all on its own, and rewarding success with more success isn't necessarily going to create a better experience.
I think it would be more fun and narratively compelling to award a natural 1 with Inspiration instead, priming a character who has failed with determination to make a comeback and redeem themselves! Not only does this work better in terms of creating an ebb and flow to the story/combat, but it also alleviates the frustration players might have when they happen to have a session where their dice just aren't cooperating!
I agree it makes more sense to get inspiration when critically failing than succeeding, or just keep it the same as a reward for RP. Also this part "where a natural 20 on a D20 Test is an automatic success" is concerning. Currently critical rules only apply to attack rolls. I have already played around with expanding this as homebrew many times and it doesn't work well in my experience from games where I was a player and games where I was a DM. This is specifically because of Ability Checks. Having this rule around saving throws usually will let you take half damage from something. With Attack Rolls it will let you auto hit 1/20 times and get a little extra damage in. Which is really not that big of a deal and some cool flavor to have happen 1/20 times. With Ability Checks "Success" isn't just a little less damage or a little more damage. They have more nuance and the results of a success can be WAY more impactful. The argument is well just don't call for a "roll" as a DM. This just leads to a loop that is very frustrating for any of the tables I have been at. What often ends up happening is the player starts describing something they are trying to do and the DM has to keep saying variations of "No" so the player keeps describing variations of the thing they want to try and the DM has determined it is impossible and so does not call for a roll and has to say variations of "No". This in my experience was ALWAYS a very frustrating back and forth for both the DM and Player involved. Why? Because we're here to play a game by rolling dice and the player just wanted to roll some dice but now they can't cause the DM can't let them potentially succeed at the impossible task. Even if the DM explains it's just Impossible (which is just a way of saying "No") the player just feels kind of let down because they feel like they didn't get to play the game.
Instead with the current rules the DM can just tell the player to make an applicable roll they roll something and even if it is a nat 20 the DM proceeds to describe how even doing their very best job and making quite an impressive display of skill it still just wasn't possible. Every time I see this happen everyone is satisfied even the player who failed. Why? Because we're here to play a game by rolling dice and the player just wanted to roll some dice they didn't care if they failed as long as they got to roll.
With my previous experience testing this exact rule I am going to run any games I DM with the existing rules where a 20 on the die only affects attacks rolls. I would just like not need to give this as an explanation in every session 0 I DM moving forward. I also plan to share this as feedback with WOTC.
I voted to keep it on the 20 for the sheer fact that crits are currently VERY underwhelming in this playtest and the inspiration helps to make it worth being a little excited when you roll a 20
The new One D&D playtest includes a new mechanic where a natural 20 is awarded with not only automatic success but Inspiration. I understand the logic behind this, but I feel like getting a natural 20 is already fun and exciting all on its own, and rewarding success with more success isn't necessarily going to create a better experience.
I think it would be more fun and narratively compelling to award a natural 1 with Inspiration instead, priming a character who has failed with determination to make a comeback and redeem themselves! Not only does this work better in terms of creating an ebb and flow to the story/combat, but it also alleviates the frustration players might have when they happen to have a session where their dice just aren't cooperating!
What do other people think about this?
I'm selecting nat 1 here, BUT with a caveat. I think in this case they'd have to call it something else. Though we do learn from our mistakes as humans in real life, I don't think I've ever felt "inspired" but hella failing at something. LOL I do like the intent of what you're suggesting. Hell, I might implement this regardless.
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Shawn D. Robertson
"Deride not the differing views of others, for it is in thoughtful and considerate conversation we find our greatest friends."
There is a class in Adventures in Rokugan that uses inspiration to power its abilities, and it regens inspiration (once over a certain level) by rolling 1's.
Remove Inspiration from the game. Inspiration is a 99% metagame mechanic that adds very little to the experience of playing. Also, it's frequently forgotten by both players and DM's anyway, so at many tables has less of an effect on the game than it's designed to, especially if one considers horded inspiration in addition to forgotten inspiration. Remembering to use inspiration, knowing when to use it for greatest effect, and knowing when/how to prompt your DM to grant inspiration are skill testers that give mechanical advantages to more experienced and/or persuasive players.
(Side note: Some RPGs have similar "bennies" that have non-numeric effects, like giving the player narrative control over an aspect of the game, like spontaneously having an item on hand that is plausible, but not in their inventory. If the Inspiration system offered something other than just statistical benefits, at least it might be narratively interesting. However, I don't suggest it here because I don't think that style of mechanic is a good fit for D&D.)
Inspiration gives a reroll rather than advantage on a roll. Forgetting or hoarding inspiration is very common, but failing an important roll would remind players of their opportunity to use it. Also, the psychological effect of failing then potentially reversing your failure is more positive than the psychological effect of making a roll more predictable, as advantage does.
Give Inspiration on a natural 1. This evens out the effect of luck a bit when it comes to individual players. The party overall is just as powerful/effective, but a little advantage is distributed to whoever is having bad rolls.
Give Inspiration narratively (the current system) At least some DMs and some players use it well, and I know some players like it, so I suppose it can just be left alone.
Give Inspiration on a natural 20. This gives statistical advantages to whichever players are already doing well though chance.
Sounds like it should be called Determination instead. :D But yeah, I think this would make more sense. It would avoid "using Inspiration to gain advantage and roll more natural 20s to get even more Inspiration" loops, and it would help you get out of a slump. I'm sure Wil Wheaton would love that rule.
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Check out my blog for homebrew D&D stuff and other projects!
So, this thread inspired me (heh!) to try something new in my home game yesterday. I mentioned this in another "inspiration" thread a couple of days ago, but I've expanded my idea and actually tried it in a game.
(1) Instead of Advantage or re-roll, I decided that inspiration could be a d6. Similar to "Bardic Inspiration." I said they could have more than one of these dice at the same time. I found a handful of odd-sized crappy white d6's that came from some game; dice that didn't look like anything the players had in their dice bags.
(2) I told my players they could apply this d6 to any dice roll. Attack, saving throw, skill check, healing, damage, whatever.
(3) I awarded it for good play, funny quotes, or extreme dice rolls. Based on some comments in this thread I had planned on only doing it for a natural 1, but I decided also to do it on a natural 20.
Basically, my frustration with my players is that they get their one inspiration and then hang onto it for the "right time" which may or may not ever come. Under the 5E rules that a player can only have one inspiration, their refusal to spend it meant that none of the good things (good play, clever quotes, etc.) ever gave a reward. I decided that handing out d6 dice as inspiration made it more like a currency where it wasn't a BIG THING but instead helped to represent a lot of little things. The result was that they spent their dice a lot faster, and they knew that they could earn more. Nobody kept more than a couple at a time and they even kidded me that when I rolled a natural 1 to attack them that I should get a d6, too.
Gain inspiration when you get hit by a 20 (also when struck by massive damage).
It's worked at my game. It does encourage them to use the advantage instead of forgetting about it. Also, it doesn't rely on the player's dice. I still give them inspiration when they do something cool, and yes, it gets forgotten until I remind them.
No, I prefer it on a 20 and id almost go the opposite route like instead of making a 1 a auto failure have a 1 give disadvantage on your next roll with maybe the exception of saves, or maybe it gives your DM inspiration into a DM inspiration pool he can feed out over the night to enemies.
I think the rule for inspiration should be to give it to another character on a 20, never receive it yourself. It maintains a tactical relevance in the current round and I think makes more sense thematically (inspiration for someone else vs adrenaline rush as you recognize your own awesomeness).
I see it as advantage on a 20 is you get on a roll. Do something great you get confident and keep on going. You can also fail and get stuck in a rut. Some days nothing goes right.
The new One D&D playtest includes a new mechanic where a natural 20 is awarded with not only automatic success but Inspiration. I understand the logic behind this, but I feel like getting a natural 20 is already fun and exciting all on its own, and rewarding success with more success isn't necessarily going to create a better experience.
I think it would be more fun and narratively compelling to award a natural 1 with Inspiration instead, priming a character who has failed with determination to make a comeback and redeem themselves! Not only does this work better in terms of creating an ebb and flow to the story/combat, but it also alleviates the frustration players might have when they happen to have a session where their dice just aren't cooperating!
What do other people think about this?
Natural 1, if only to avoid the "rich getting richer" loop of gameplay.
I agree it makes more sense to get inspiration when critically failing than succeeding, or just keep it the same as a reward for RP.
Also this part "where a natural 20 on a D20 Test is an automatic success" is concerning. Currently critical rules only apply to attack rolls. I have already played around with expanding this as homebrew many times and it doesn't work well in my experience from games where I was a player and games where I was a DM. This is specifically because of Ability Checks.
Having this rule around saving throws usually will let you take half damage from something. With Attack Rolls it will let you auto hit 1/20 times and get a little extra damage in. Which is really not that big of a deal and some cool flavor to have happen 1/20 times. With Ability Checks "Success" isn't just a little less damage or a little more damage. They have more nuance and the results of a success can be WAY more impactful.
The argument is well just don't call for a "roll" as a DM. This just leads to a loop that is very frustrating for any of the tables I have been at.
What often ends up happening is the player starts describing something they are trying to do and the DM has to keep saying variations of "No" so the player keeps describing variations of the thing they want to try and the DM has determined it is impossible and so does not call for a roll and has to say variations of "No". This in my experience was ALWAYS a very frustrating back and forth for both the DM and Player involved. Why? Because we're here to play a game by rolling dice and the player just wanted to roll some dice but now they can't cause the DM can't let them potentially succeed at the impossible task. Even if the DM explains it's just Impossible (which is just a way of saying "No") the player just feels kind of let down because they feel like they didn't get to play the game.
Instead with the current rules the DM can just tell the player to make an applicable roll they roll something and even if it is a nat 20 the DM proceeds to describe how even doing their very best job and making quite an impressive display of skill it still just wasn't possible. Every time I see this happen everyone is satisfied even the player who failed. Why? Because we're here to play a game by rolling dice and the player just wanted to roll some dice they didn't care if they failed as long as they got to roll.
With my previous experience testing this exact rule I am going to run any games I DM with the existing rules where a 20 on the die only affects attacks rolls. I would just like not need to give this as an explanation in every session 0 I DM moving forward. I also plan to share this as feedback with WOTC.
I voted to keep it on the 20 for the sheer fact that crits are currently VERY underwhelming in this playtest and the inspiration helps to make it worth being a little excited when you roll a 20
I'm selecting nat 1 here, BUT with a caveat. I think in this case they'd have to call it something else. Though we do learn from our mistakes as humans in real life, I don't think I've ever felt "inspired" but hella failing at something. LOL I do like the intent of what you're suggesting. Hell, I might implement this regardless.
Shawn D. Robertson
"Deride not the differing views of others, for it is in thoughtful and considerate conversation we find our greatest friends."
~Me~
There is a class in Adventures in Rokugan that uses inspiration to power its abilities, and it regens inspiration (once over a certain level) by rolling 1's.
It works very nicely.
My choices in order of preference:
Remove Inspiration from the game.
Inspiration is a 99% metagame mechanic that adds very little to the experience of playing. Also, it's frequently forgotten by both players and DM's anyway, so at many tables has less of an effect on the game than it's designed to, especially if one considers horded inspiration in addition to forgotten inspiration. Remembering to use inspiration, knowing when to use it for greatest effect, and knowing when/how to prompt your DM to grant inspiration are skill testers that give mechanical advantages to more experienced and/or persuasive players.
(Side note: Some RPGs have similar "bennies" that have non-numeric effects, like giving the player narrative control over an aspect of the game, like spontaneously having an item on hand that is plausible, but not in their inventory. If the Inspiration system offered something other than just statistical benefits, at least it might be narratively interesting. However, I don't suggest it here because I don't think that style of mechanic is a good fit for D&D.)
Inspiration gives a reroll rather than advantage on a roll.
Forgetting or hoarding inspiration is very common, but failing an important roll would remind players of their opportunity to use it. Also, the psychological effect of failing then potentially reversing your failure is more positive than the psychological effect of making a roll more predictable, as advantage does.
Give Inspiration on a natural 1.
This evens out the effect of luck a bit when it comes to individual players. The party overall is just as powerful/effective, but a little advantage is distributed to whoever is having bad rolls.
Give Inspiration narratively (the current system)
At least some DMs and some players use it well, and I know some players like it, so I suppose it can just be left alone.
Give Inspiration on a natural 20.
This gives statistical advantages to whichever players are already doing well though chance.
Sounds like it should be called Determination instead. :D But yeah, I think this would make more sense. It would avoid "using Inspiration to gain advantage and roll more natural 20s to get even more Inspiration" loops, and it would help you get out of a slump. I'm sure Wil Wheaton would love that rule.
Check out my blog for homebrew D&D stuff and other projects!
So, this thread inspired me (heh!) to try something new in my home game yesterday. I mentioned this in another "inspiration" thread a couple of days ago, but I've expanded my idea and actually tried it in a game.
(1) Instead of Advantage or re-roll, I decided that inspiration could be a d6. Similar to "Bardic Inspiration." I said they could have more than one of these dice at the same time. I found a handful of odd-sized crappy white d6's that came from some game; dice that didn't look like anything the players had in their dice bags.
(2) I told my players they could apply this d6 to any dice roll. Attack, saving throw, skill check, healing, damage, whatever.
(3) I awarded it for good play, funny quotes, or extreme dice rolls. Based on some comments in this thread I had planned on only doing it for a natural 1, but I decided also to do it on a natural 20.
Basically, my frustration with my players is that they get their one inspiration and then hang onto it for the "right time" which may or may not ever come. Under the 5E rules that a player can only have one inspiration, their refusal to spend it meant that none of the good things (good play, clever quotes, etc.) ever gave a reward. I decided that handing out d6 dice as inspiration made it more like a currency where it wasn't a BIG THING but instead helped to represent a lot of little things. The result was that they spent their dice a lot faster, and they knew that they could earn more. Nobody kept more than a couple at a time and they even kidded me that when I rolled a natural 1 to attack them that I should get a d6, too.
Player * Game Master * Started with OD&D in 1975
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!" -- Dave Arneson
I really love the idea of a reroll.
Tying it to both ends of the die's possible rolls might work nicely as well. Narative reward should definitely remain a thing.
There are good ideas here.
Simply put, there's a choice missing in the poll.
Gain inspiration when you get hit by a 20 (also when struck by massive damage).
It's worked at my game. It does encourage them to use the advantage instead of forgetting about it. Also, it doesn't rely on the player's dice. I still give them inspiration when they do something cool, and yes, it gets forgotten until I remind them.
- since 1982 -
No, I prefer it on a 20 and id almost go the opposite route like instead of making a 1 a auto failure have a 1 give disadvantage on your next roll with maybe the exception of saves, or maybe it gives your DM inspiration into a DM inspiration pool he can feed out over the night to enemies.
I think the rule for inspiration should be to give it to another character on a 20, never receive it yourself. It maintains a tactical relevance in the current round and I think makes more sense thematically (inspiration for someone else vs adrenaline rush as you recognize your own awesomeness).
I see it as advantage on a 20 is you get on a roll. Do something great you get confident and keep on going.
You can also fail and get stuck in a rut. Some days nothing goes right.
Inspiration on a natural 1 would be detrimental to a halfling's Lucky trait.