How is everyone feeling about the consolidation of spell lists? I think it will be a bit easier to work around, especially with new players. I am wondering if there are plans for classes having additional spells added to their list, such as warlock and eldritch blast, or Bard and all sorts of options.
Though only getting a peek at Cantrip and Level 1 doesn't really give much of a view of how it will feel, just curious if people had some likes dislikes for the current iteration.
I mainly see it as a good thing, making 1/2 casters some what a mirror of their full caster variants and giving them more varied options for spells. I like the idea of a druid using hunters mark before shapeshifting and entering the fray. Curious if there is a direction in mind for the next step of the Dnd one development.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I think there is a list missing. Bards and artificers have much different roles and spell lists to fit what wizards, sorcs and warlocks. A fourth "artistry" list would go along way.
You should check out the video with JC and Todd Kendrick. They flesh this out, in addition to a lot of other stuff, but it is an hour long.
He does mention that some spells will be on multiple lists.
These are the "universal lists" but each class will also have access to other class-specific spells.
The way I understand it, both bard and artificer would fit in arcane, which is basically just manipulating the magical energies of the universe. As the other options are relying on gods or nature. But it doesn't seem like there will be a fourth. Of course, this is just a playtest, so you should tell WotC that when the survey opens in September.
On the video it is explained what these lists are for, they do not replace the existing class spell lists, they are an addition to that and it makes sense.
In future where a class, feat, or race allows some access to magic then they can have 3 generic spell lists to point towards. For instance the Ranger class leaps out at me, various magical feats etc. instead of having to repeat lists and lists of spells everywhere and make specific paragraphs when new spells are added to various classes, subclasses etc they can simply make a new spell and then state the lists it is added to.
We will still have druid, wizard, sorcerer, artificer lists etc (not said warlock because I have a feeling warlocks will get a complete makeover and possibly operate magic in a totally new way), these lists are just an additional set to allow better flexibility and easier management.
I think a lot of people mistake what they mean. This is more the source of their magic not what type of magic it. A cleric may get their power from the gods and tap into the divine but they could also get primal spells such as animal friendship depending on what type of cleric they are. Ranger could pull from the Arcane. There could still also be sub categories such Illusion and Conjuration. That would be the school of magic you study but the schools pull from three sources
I think a lot of people mistake what they mean. This is more the source of their magic not what type of magic it. A cleric may get their power from the gods and tap into the divine but they could also get primal spells such as animal friendship depending on what type of cleric they are. Ranger could pull from the Arcane. There could still also be sub categories such Illusion and Conjuration. That would be the school of magic you study but the schools pull from three sources
again i think you'r overcomplicating this, in the video Jeremy Crawford openly says, since 5th edition we have felt there are 3 missing spell lists, not 3 replacement ones. Wizards realised I think early on that when it comes to anything that can cast a spell but is not one of the defined spell caster classes then you needed to list out the spells that they could cast as a separate list, against the sub class, the feat etc.
Now instead they can use these 3 additional lists to give themselves more flexibility. We will still have Cleric spell lists separate to this, and wizard lists and druid lists. Sub classes of these casters will still then get additions to those lists as they do now. Bards will still have a utility list of their own but now if wizards wants to make a barbarian spell caster they can simply say, pick spells from the primal list. The Arcane Trickster may now pick from the arcane list.
I think a lot of people mistake what they mean. This is more the source of their magic not what type of magic it. A cleric may get their power from the gods and tap into the divine but they could also get primal spells such as animal friendship depending on what type of cleric they are. Ranger could pull from the Arcane. There could still also be sub categories such Illusion and Conjuration. That would be the school of magic you study but the schools pull from three sources
again i think you'r overcomplicating this, in the video Jeremy Crawford openly says, since 5th edition we have felt there are 3 missing spell lists, not 3 replacement ones. Wizards realised I think early on that when it comes to anything that can cast a spell but is not one of the defined spell caster classes then you needed to list out the spells that they could cast as a separate list, against the sub class, the feat etc.
Now instead they can use these 3 additional lists to give themselves more flexibility. We will still have Cleric spell lists separate to this, and wizard lists and druid lists. Sub classes of these casters will still then get additions to those lists as they do now. Bards will still have a utility list of their own but now if wizards wants to make a barbarian spell caster they can simply say, pick spells from the primal list. The Arcane Trickster may now pick from the arcane list.
There are still going to be spells that overlap. There are even spells that are on all the lists. I am not saying they replace anything. There are sources of magic. From the document There are now three main Spell lists in the game: Arcane, Divine, and Primal. In future Unearthed Arcana articles, we’ll show how Classes use these lists and how a Class or Subclass might gain Spells from another list So main spell lists. Then you have spell lists for classes. For instance: Mending is on the cantrip list for Primal and Arcane but not Divine. This does not mean that Clerics does not have access to it. Just that their primary power source of magic is from the Divine. The spells that are on all three all act the same but the source of that power come from different places.
On the video it is explained what these lists are for, they do not replace the existing class spell lists, they are an addition to that and it makes sense.
In future where a class, feat, or race allows some access to magic then they can have 3 generic spell lists to point towards. For instance the Ranger class leaps out at me, various magical feats etc. instead of having to repeat lists and lists of spells everywhere and make specific paragraphs when new spells are added to various classes, subclasses etc they can simply make a new spell and then state the lists it is added to.
We will still have druid, wizard, sorcerer, artificer lists etc (not said warlock because I have a feeling warlocks will get a complete makeover and possibly operate magic in a totally new way), these lists are just an additional set to allow better flexibility and easier management.
This is outright incorrect. There has been several claims on these forums lately that Jeremy said in the video that these are new spell lists and that they would NOT be replacing class spell lists, and that FALSE he did not say that. There is also the idea that he said these new lists were for feats and universal abilities to pull from without needing to go through a class, and this is only partially true. I am going to link the video and talk about exact time stamps for what he ACTUALLY said. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOQ_Exh0DmY&
Starting at 42:30 is when the conversation starts, at 43:00 this is what most people are talking about with them referencing a need for a spell list that wasn't linked to a specific class, but rather the source of your magic, but he also references that they realized this with the introduction of a new class the Artificer. Referencing the idea of new classes in the future without them needing to make up an entire new spell list. This also includes when they make a new spell they don't need to filter it through a class they can just say it is part of xyz universal spell list. He goes on to say at 46:20 "People will have to wait for upcoming Unearthed Arcanas to see how CLASSES use those spell lists, because classes ARE going to use those lists, but classes are also going to have access to spells that go beyond those universal lists."
So we need to slay this idea that Jeremy said that the old class spell lists are remaining intact, or that these spell lists are ONLY for feats and magic items. They are not. Classes will be using these spell lists, probably not whole hog, but they will use them. I suspect wizards and sorcerers will just say "You have access the arcane spell list". I suspect the same will be for Paladins and Clerics for divine and Druids and Rangers for Primal. The ones that are going to get weird are the warlocks, the bards and the Artificers. Bards is probably going to be something along the lines of "You have access to the Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment and Illusion spells from the Arcane spell list and the Transmutation, abjuration and necromancy spells from the Primal spell list". Which I would much rather just have artificer and Bards split off into their own spell list. Have warlocks be the weird ones with something like "You have access to the Arcane spell list except Evocation and Transmutation schools" and they get access to those schools or spells from those schools due to their subclasses or from invocations.
Either way, Jeremy specifically did say classes would be using the new spell lists to make it easier to create spells without having to add them to each individual spell list.
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How is everyone feeling about the consolidation of spell lists? I think it will be a bit easier to work around, especially with new players. I am wondering if there are plans for classes having additional spells added to their list, such as warlock and eldritch blast, or Bard and all sorts of options.
Though only getting a peek at Cantrip and Level 1 doesn't really give much of a view of how it will feel, just curious if people had some likes dislikes for the current iteration.
I mainly see it as a good thing, making 1/2 casters some what a mirror of their full caster variants and giving them more varied options for spells. I like the idea of a druid using hunters mark before shapeshifting and entering the fray. Curious if there is a direction in mind for the next step of the Dnd one development.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
I think there is a list missing. Bards and artificers have much different roles and spell lists to fit what wizards, sorcs and warlocks. A fourth "artistry" list would go along way.
You should check out the video with JC and Todd Kendrick. They flesh this out, in addition to a lot of other stuff, but it is an hour long.
He does mention that some spells will be on multiple lists.
These are the "universal lists" but each class will also have access to other class-specific spells.
The way I understand it, both bard and artificer would fit in arcane, which is basically just manipulating the magical energies of the universe. As the other options are relying on gods or nature. But it doesn't seem like there will be a fourth. Of course, this is just a playtest, so you should tell WotC that when the survey opens in September.
On the video it is explained what these lists are for, they do not replace the existing class spell lists, they are an addition to that and it makes sense.
In future where a class, feat, or race allows some access to magic then they can have 3 generic spell lists to point towards. For instance the Ranger class leaps out at me, various magical feats etc. instead of having to repeat lists and lists of spells everywhere and make specific paragraphs when new spells are added to various classes, subclasses etc they can simply make a new spell and then state the lists it is added to.
We will still have druid, wizard, sorcerer, artificer lists etc (not said warlock because I have a feeling warlocks will get a complete makeover and possibly operate magic in a totally new way), these lists are just an additional set to allow better flexibility and easier management.
I think a lot of people mistake what they mean.
This is more the source of their magic not what type of magic it.
A cleric may get their power from the gods and tap into the divine but they could also get primal spells such as animal friendship depending on what type of cleric they are.
Ranger could pull from the Arcane.
There could still also be sub categories such Illusion and Conjuration. That would be the school of magic you study but the schools pull from three sources
again i think you'r overcomplicating this, in the video Jeremy Crawford openly says, since 5th edition we have felt there are 3 missing spell lists, not 3 replacement ones. Wizards realised I think early on that when it comes to anything that can cast a spell but is not one of the defined spell caster classes then you needed to list out the spells that they could cast as a separate list, against the sub class, the feat etc.
Now instead they can use these 3 additional lists to give themselves more flexibility. We will still have Cleric spell lists separate to this, and wizard lists and druid lists. Sub classes of these casters will still then get additions to those lists as they do now. Bards will still have a utility list of their own but now if wizards wants to make a barbarian spell caster they can simply say, pick spells from the primal list. The Arcane Trickster may now pick from the arcane list.
There are still going to be spells that overlap. There are even spells that are on all the lists.
I am not saying they replace anything.
There are sources of magic. From the document There are now three main Spell lists in the game: Arcane, Divine, and Primal. In future Unearthed Arcana articles, we’ll show how Classes use these lists and how a Class or Subclass might gain Spells from another list
So main spell lists.
Then you have spell lists for classes.
For instance: Mending is on the cantrip list for Primal and Arcane but not Divine. This does not mean that Clerics does not have access to it. Just that their primary power source of magic is from the Divine.
The spells that are on all three all act the same but the source of that power come from different places.
This is outright incorrect. There has been several claims on these forums lately that Jeremy said in the video that these are new spell lists and that they would NOT be replacing class spell lists, and that FALSE he did not say that. There is also the idea that he said these new lists were for feats and universal abilities to pull from without needing to go through a class, and this is only partially true. I am going to link the video and talk about exact time stamps for what he ACTUALLY said. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOQ_Exh0DmY&
Starting at 42:30 is when the conversation starts, at 43:00 this is what most people are talking about with them referencing a need for a spell list that wasn't linked to a specific class, but rather the source of your magic, but he also references that they realized this with the introduction of a new class the Artificer. Referencing the idea of new classes in the future without them needing to make up an entire new spell list. This also includes when they make a new spell they don't need to filter it through a class they can just say it is part of xyz universal spell list. He goes on to say at 46:20 "People will have to wait for upcoming Unearthed Arcanas to see how CLASSES use those spell lists, because classes ARE going to use those lists, but classes are also going to have access to spells that go beyond those universal lists."
So we need to slay this idea that Jeremy said that the old class spell lists are remaining intact, or that these spell lists are ONLY for feats and magic items. They are not. Classes will be using these spell lists, probably not whole hog, but they will use them. I suspect wizards and sorcerers will just say "You have access the arcane spell list". I suspect the same will be for Paladins and Clerics for divine and Druids and Rangers for Primal. The ones that are going to get weird are the warlocks, the bards and the Artificers. Bards is probably going to be something along the lines of "You have access to the Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment and Illusion spells from the Arcane spell list and the Transmutation, abjuration and necromancy spells from the Primal spell list". Which I would much rather just have artificer and Bards split off into their own spell list. Have warlocks be the weird ones with something like "You have access to the Arcane spell list except Evocation and Transmutation schools" and they get access to those schools or spells from those schools due to their subclasses or from invocations.
Either way, Jeremy specifically did say classes would be using the new spell lists to make it easier to create spells without having to add them to each individual spell list.