I wanted to bring the conversation about half elves, half orcs, and other biracials here, because I feel like there’s a deeper and more focused discussion to be had: what does it mean to be biracial?
Under the system proposed in the UA, being biracials affects the way you look, your lifespan, and your roleplaying, but it doesn’t affect your racial abilities. My first impulse is: it isn’t enough. I love the idea of building my own biracials, as in some ways this feels like it gives me more options that I want to play with, but this also feels like it’s purely cosmetic.
That said, in a lot of speculative fiction, biracials feel that way. Some of the biggest examples:
-Elrond Half-Elven and his brother Elros from the Silmarilion and Lord of the Rings. Both were 3rd generation half elves. But, they each functioned as members of exactly one race. They were given a choice, and Elrond chose to be an Elf, Elros chose to be a human with a long life span, and that was that. Elrond’s kids got to make the choice as well.
-Spock of Star Trek: Half Vulcan, but for all intents and purposes aboard the Enterprise, people see the Vulcan. He’s culturally a Vulcan, has the mental abilities of a Vulcan, his human heritage creates internal conflict once in a while, plus the occasional judgment of his Vulcan people, but most of the time , he functions as a Vulcan.
-Garona Halforcen of Warcraft: half orc, half-they-really-haven’t-made-up-their-minds-to-the-point-it-doesn’t-matter. Orc enough that humans can’t tell the difference, but not enough for orcs.
All of this kinda flies in the face of my position that these races should be more than just cosmetic/RP functions. That said, part of my evaluations of these characters may be skewed by humanity: I see them less as my own people and more of the people their other parent came from. But what do you think? That’s probably the most important thing. If we as a player base want more out of our biracials, we should let Wizards know now. If we don’t, we should let them know now.
Finally, I’ll issue you a challenge: if you like the biracial system the way it is, make a biracial character with it and post it here. If you don’t, write up how you would make a half-elf, half-Orc, or whatever you want to see based on how they’ve written their races. I’d love to see what you come up with, either way.
I'm really underwhelmed by the half-race rules. My ideal fix to this would be relatively easy I think.
Basically the "special traits" for each race would mark certain traits as replaceable or swappable. You still choose all of the "special traits" for one parent's race, and then you can replace 1 trait from the other parent's race. The trait you replace and the trait you replace it with both have to be "replaceable".
Human: Skillful
Ardling: Damage Resistance
Dragonborn: Damage Resistance or Darkvision
Dwarf: Stonecunning or Darkvision
Elf: Darkvision or Keen Senses
Gnome: Darkvision
Halfling: Naturally Stealthy
Orc: Darkvision or Powerful Build
Tiefling: Darkvision
I think you could probably make even more traits replaceable, but these ones all seem to be about on par power-wise. This would also allow WOTC to add more replaceable traits in future books to allow for more customization.
I'm about to start a new campaign in the next few hours, and my proposed character is a half elf ranger. If I made them in terms of the new UA they would turn out to be:
Race human
Background: Guide
But like you I find that this just doesn't sit right. The elf option has flavor but also, just doesn't sit right. (although one could say that's sort of the point)
Ultimately I think the issue is the Skilled and Versatile traits from the Human, it's just too darn bland (4 skills before your background or class is also a little nuts). I'd propose swapping them with Prodigy, the human/halfelf/halforc racial feat from Xanathars that gives 1 skill, 1 tool, and 1 language as well as 2x proficiency (expertise) in a skill of your choice. The rationale is the 'expertise' aspect. A half elf having expertise in perception or an orc having expertise in athletics or intimidation for example adds a LOT of character definition that 'skilled' just lacks.
Edit: alternatively you could have a level 1 feat called Elf Blood or Orc Blood and just swap the human feat to that.
The three examples you listed all follow exactly the kind of thing that WotC is doing. Hybrids are just cosmetic and background/RP changes. You even listed Spock and, for all intents and purposes, he functions exactly like a Vulcan. The inner conflict between his "halves" is nothing more than the DnD equivalent of RPing a character differently.
At the end of the day, I kind of prefer this option over overly complex hybrid rules. I would be fine if they existed but then WotC would have to consider every single combination of hybrid races that can be made and that's just a balancing nightmare. Even if it wasn't, the alternative would be even more boring if all we'd be getting is "Does my character get Darkvision or Damage Resistance?" because the options would definitely be very limited to the point where a half-Dragonborn/half-Tiefling would be mechanically exactly the same as a half-Ardling/half-Orc or something to that effect.
The three examples you listed all follow exactly the kind of thing that WotC is doing. Hybrids are just cosmetic and background/RP changes. You even listed Spock and, for all intents and purposes, he functions exactly like a Vulcan. The inner conflict between his "halves" is nothing more than the DnD equivalent of RPing a character differently.
At the end of the day, I kind of prefer this option over overly complex hybrid rules. I would be fine if they existed but then WotC would have to consider every single combination of hybrid races that can be made and that's just a balancing nightmare. Even if it wasn't, the alternative would be even more boring if all we'd be getting is "Does my character get Darkvision or Damage Resistance?" because the options would definitely be very limited to the point where a half-Dragonborn/half-Tiefling would be mechanically exactly the same as a half-Ardling/half-Orc or something to that effect.
Oh, there's definitely an argument in favor of what Wizard's is doing. I just don't happen to agree with it. The literary precedent here is strong, but if it doesn't satify us, then Wizards shouldn't rely on it. As it is, I very much like the blow quoted system proposed by the shoeless fish.
I'm really underwhelmed by the half-race rules. My ideal fix to this would be relatively easy I think.
Basically the "special traits" for each race would mark certain traits as replaceable or swappable. You still choose all of the "special traits" for one parent's race, and then you can replace 1 trait from the other parent's race. The trait you replace and the trait you replace it with both have to be "replaceable".
Human: Skillful
Ardling: Damage Resistance
Dragonborn: Damage Resistance or Darkvision
Dwarf: Stonecunning or Darkvision
Elf: Darkvision or Keen Senses
Gnome: Darkvision
Halfling: Naturally Stealthy
Orc: Darkvision or Powerful Build
Tiefling: Darkvision
I think you could probably make even more traits replaceable, but these ones all seem to be about on par power-wise. This would also allow WOTC to add more replaceable traits in future books to allow for more customization.
I'd just do resourceful for human instead of skilled. Mere nuance however.
As it is proposed, some combinations work for me, some really don't. For instance, my first thought was to mix orc and tiefling. The tiefling racials are much more interesting to me..... but in my mind the parents are an orc and a demon, not a devil, yugoloth, etc. But, the poison themed racials don't work for me near as well as well as I'd like. I suppose I could use the orc racials instead and maybe go for one progenitor being a barlgura or goristro, double down on the muscle. On the other hand, the Abyssal heritage works perfect for a tiefling drow.
I think they should do the half-races like they are doing backgrounds. Create your own but give examples like half-elf and half-orc They have been around so long they are almost a race themselves.
I think they should also have some appearance features that can be given as an example and you should need to take from each. I know some players who would play an Ardant/Human take all the traits of Ardant but look totally human.
Could list three to four appearance traits that each race tends to have and you need to select at least one from each.
It should be ancestry not "races", and "racial traits" are bunk. If you want to be a quarter orc, quarter Tiefling, half Elf, go for it. You get the same stat bonuses to put where you want as everyone else.
They should rank all the formerly "racial traits" and give you a pool to spend on them. Because clearly some are better than others. Better the trait, more it costs, but they're not linked to races. Mix and match how you want. All the current ancestries can be in the books as examples, and as they add new "ancestral traits" in new books as long as they have a cost to them you can keep integrating them.
(But I'd balance the original ones more personally. Seems dumb there are clear choices that go better with specific classes. Even if they didn't balance the the stock ancestries, at least you'd have the structure underneath to build new characters that wouldn't be wacky unbalanced. )
Character's personal appearance should just be flavoring. Go nuts. Or look just like the regular version of your ancestry.
I love how the race traits etc are set out like a template. It makes it easier to hybridize.
But the current hybrid character build process suggested is not adequate.
Personally the idea of half races = one part flavor + one part mechanics is pretty underwhelming.
Our few tests so far have left us feeling like we want to combine all the race traits and then choose half. Ie: if Dwarf has 5 traits, and Human has 3 traits, combined it’s 8 possible options, of which choose 4 (half of 8).
Though I suspect this could make some pretty op hybrids. But just utilizing one half just for flavor os almost pointless.
So I just sat down and actually wrote out the hybrids
1. Dwarf: Interesting point of Lore - Dwarves breed True. So the existing rules work. Anything + Dwarf = Dwarf traits with other cosmetics.
2. Ardlings/tieflings: Lumping these two because they also breed True, but for different reasons. The emergence of the Ardling/Tiefling traits overwrites the other racial traits. You could have 2 human parents and the Tiefling is still a Tiefling.
3. Orc: Add a new level 1 feat to the game Orc-Blooded: Grants Darkvision and the Relentless Endurance Trait. Obviously this lends itself to the humans with their bonus feat, but could be applied to any character as part of their background.
4. Elf: Add a new level 1 feat to the game Elf-Blooded: Grants Darkvision and the Fey Ancestry trait <see above>
5. Halflings - Use the UA rules (a halfling is the size of the 2-3 year old human. So I am not giving anymore thought to this)
6. Gnomes: Use the UA rules, I feel like the only reason to hybrid a Gnome would be cosmetic and that Gnomish Cunning is just a little too good to make into a feat.
7. Dragonborn: Use the UA rules. Assuming Dragonborn are even biologically compatible with the rest of the list, the other option would be to put the Dragon breath on a feat. And let's be honest here, with this current iteration I don't think anyone is going to take a feat for that ability.
I think they should do the half-races like they are doing backgrounds. Create your own but give examples like half-elf and half-orc They have been around so long they are almost a race themselves.
I think they should also have some appearance features that can be given as an example and you should need to take from each. I know some players who would play an Ardant/Human take all the traits of Ardant but look totally human.
Could list three to four appearance traits that each race tends to have and you need to select at least one from each.
Half <Race> could be a good way to do a background, or at least a Level 1 feat that fits into the background. Whenever they publish a new race, they could drop a corresponding Half <race> feat.
That way lies madness and a minmaxer hell. Imagine Aarakocentaur with flying speed and equine build and hooves. Warforgedortle with ultimate armor. Tieflardling who is on average a human.
I still like the primary/secondary trait distinction. Being able to swap any of the secondary traits would fix the issue for me.
It would only require 1 extra identifier for each trait. And 2-3 sentences to explain how it works mechanically. And it would also open so much more flexibility if wotc ever wanted to put out a list of generic "secondary traits" (maybe with parent race restrictions). You could even have generic secondary traits that work with mono-racial ancestries.
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I get the sentiment about wanting to simplify and streamline the character creation process, but 1) I don't necessarily see this design philosophy in other aspects of the rules, and 2) sometimes simple is the enemy if fun, and I don't think the current UA rules are very fun.
I'd like my character to feel unique mechanically, and not just aesthetically.
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I sort of like the racial feats idea, but I don't think it's very compatible with the way they're changing races/backgrounds. Racial feats only really make sense for half-humans, since the only other way to get a 1st-level feat is with the background. But I read the background as more about what your character did in their early life, and not what their racial ancestry is.
Look, the hand waving hybrid rule currently purposed work fine for that 1 in a million Dragonborn/Tortle but half orcs and elves have been a real demographic in every game I’ve played or DM’ed over the last 40 + years. You can’t just pull a 2nd Edition move and throw them out with the bath water Because the moral majority/woke/ PC police don’t like the implications of there conception.( as a historic note there were so few changes between first and second edition that it was in my opinion almost universal that everyone continue to play 1st Ed Half Orcs and assassins even after they were removed from 2nd Ed) .I’ve got a Fortified town in a mountain path, populated primarily by half orcs that have lived Reasonably peacefully with their neighbors for hundreds of years. I’m really disappointed with Wizards over this Direction. As Treantmonk says “D&D is for everyone” a statement I can get behind but apparently Wizards Are terrified by the concept that a human and a elf or a Orc and a human could have a consensual relationship let alone that two half orcs or half elves might have children. These are distinct races in D&D and all ways will be. Adding Orcs to the core rules will perhaps makes some people happier, but I can’t I imagine a city guard of water deep swinging open the gates for your orc PC. That’s the forgotten part of the half orc, as long as no one was really paying attention, doing something suspicious or illegal, they could blend in. Between 1st Ed &3rd Ed Half Orc went from the 10% of Half Orcs that could pass for human to the hulking Brutes of Games Workshops “Blood Bowl”. The crux of the problems was the introduction of the barbarian class and the removal of fixed multi class combinations. The opening up of multi classing to humans and the Mechanical push towards melee combatants for half orcs. The combination of fighter/assassin, fighter/ thief, assassin/cleric, cleric/fighter and cleric/thief led to a sneaky warrior ideal for a dungeon crawling or gritty urban adventure. About the only good thing about 4th Ed was the half orc +2 STR/+2 DEX helped reestablish the sneaky side of the of the race. The criticism for leaving the half orc out of the 4th Ed players handbook was vocal and one of the first things they talked about adding to the system to appease the general dislike of 4 th Ed. I must say I’m dismayed buy the general apathy to the removal of the Half Orc and even more so by the removal of the Half Elf. I suspect that a human only feat is the workaround that will show up eventually. Perhaps I’ll try to craft a feat that articulates the Half Orc as I see them.
I still don't like the system as it is, but it occurs to me that we can use the Build a Background feature to better represent a hybrid nature. Here's a sample background that could do this:
Half-Orc Outcast (for anything mixed with Orc) Abilities: +2 Str, +1 Con Skill Proficiencies: Survival, Perception Tool Proficiency: Herbalism Kit Language: Orcish Feat: Savage Attacker Equipment: (I'm not feeling writing out an equipment list right this minute) Too orc for one parent, not enough for another, you've been driven away. You've learned to survive on your own, and you've learned to be alert, ready for an attack from anyone. And above all, you've learned how to finish fights before they finish you. It's you against the world.
The examples you give are all author, director and actor defined not based on science. That does not mean that they do not have something to offer but it means that they should be analyses and thought of accordingly. The LotR example i think is explained in the books as hybrids have to determine if they are going to live like an elf or 1/2 elf, spock often in the movies talks about trying to be a vulcan but having some human traits and the last example I do not have enough info to provide an opinion.
In general I would like not to go back to D&D 3E and 1/2 Storm Giant and 1/2 halfling or 1/2 red dragon and 1/2 gnome. Why? Well I do not think every species can interbreed with each other and in general if you play that way you can get some very cartoon like races. Note I am not making any reference to modern society, I am saying that a bird cannot produce viable offspring with a lizard even if they are intelligent.
What I would like to see: I would like to see the official 1/2 races be defined by WotC and then have rules for GM's and player to create what ever hybrid races they want for their game.
The examples you give are all author, director and actor defined not based on science.
Applying science to D&D races is... not a good idea. First of all, if they're actually different species, crossbreeds are either impossible, or are mules that are almost always sterile and don't breed true for the extremely rare non-sterile variant. Secondly, you simply aren't going to get the diversity of types you have in D&D anyway, because evolution just doesn't work that way.
Can I just make one request? Can we not use "hybrid" and "half-breed" to talk about people? Even if they are fictional characters? Can we instead use "biracial" or perhaps "multiracial?"
As for the challenge, here's me remaking my half elf character with the new system
Fiego Laurentis De Gryphon Fiego Laurentis de Gryphon, of the Waterdeep De Gryphones, is the youngest son of the youngest son in a noble family that shocked high society generations ago by intermarrying with an Elven Princess from the elves of the High Forest. The scandal has died down somewhat in the last hundred years, mollified by the deft politics of Fiego's grandmother and the matriarch of the family, the aforementioned Elven Princess. Fiego has never been one for hard work, sleeping through most of his classes at the Bardic College and relying on his natural wit and talent to coast through while sneaking out to have illicit duels with his classmates.
Current Build Race: Half Elf (Wood Elf Variant: Fleet of Foot) Common, Elvish, Dwarvish Ability Scores: +2 Charisma, +1Dexterity, +1Strength Background: Noble Proficiencies: Playing Cards, Draconic, Persuasion, Performance (swapped out History) Equipment: A set of fine clothes, a signet ring, a scroll of pedigree, and a purse containing 25 gp Feature: Position of Privilege Thanks to your noble birth, people are inclined to think the best of you. You are welcome in high society, and people assume you have the right to be wherever you are. The common folk make every effort to accommodate you and avoid your displeasure, and other people of high birth treat you as a member of the same social sphere. You can secure an audience with a local noble if you need to. Class: Bard
Playtest Build Race: Half Elf (Human Special Features) Skillful: Persuasion Versatile: Musician Feat Background: Rich Playboy Ability Scores: +2 Charisma, +1 Dexterity Skill Proficiencies: Stealth, Performance Tool Proficiency: Playing Card Set Languages: Common, Elven, Dwarven Feat: Savage Attacker Equipment: Fine Clothes (15gp), Signet Ring (5gp), 30gp in coin
So he lost 5ft of walking speed, one language, a +1 Ability Score, and a nebulous social clout feature. He gained Inspiration on waking up, one Skill Proficiency, 5gp starting coin (assuming Bards get a starting instrument and I don't have to buy that with Background gold), and two feats that already start him on his path toward being a gishy bard. It's a little bit of an adjustment, but I think I like it.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Can I just make one request? Can we not use "hybrid" and "half-breed" to talk about people? Even if they are fictional characters? Can we instead use "biracial" or perhaps "multiracial?"
As for the challenge, here's me remaking my half elf character with the new system
Fiego Laurentis De Gryphon Fiego Laurentis de Gryphon, of the Waterdeep De Gryphones, is the youngest son of the youngest son in a noble family that shocked high society generations ago by intermarrying with an Elven Princess from the elves of the High Forest. The scandal has died down somewhat in the last hundred years, mollified by the deft politics of Fiego's grandmother and the matriarch of the family, the aforementioned Elven Princess. Fiego has never been one for hard work, sleeping through most of his classes at the Bardic College and relying on his natural wit and talent to coast through while sneaking out to have illicit duels with his classmates.
Current Build Race: Half Elf (Wood Elf Variant: Fleet of Foot) Common, Elvish, Dwarvish Ability Scores: +2 Charisma, +1Dexterity, +1Strength Background: Noble Proficiencies: Playing Cards, Draconic, Persuasion, Performance (swapped out History) Equipment: A set of fine clothes, a signet ring, a scroll of pedigree, and a purse containing 25 gp Feature: Position of Privilege Thanks to your noble birth, people are inclined to think the best of you. You are welcome in high society, and people assume you have the right to be wherever you are. The common folk make every effort to accommodate you and avoid your displeasure, and other people of high birth treat you as a member of the same social sphere. You can secure an audience with a local noble if you need to. Class: Bard
Playtest Build Race: Half Elf (Human Special Features) Skillful: Persuasion Versatile: Musician Feat Background: Rich Playboy Ability Scores: +2 Charisma, +1 Dexterity Skill Proficiencies: Stealth, Performance Tool Proficiency: Playing Card Set Languages: Common, Elven, Dwarven Feat: Savage Attacker Equipment: Fine Clothes (15gp), Signet Ring (5gp), 30gp in coin
So he lost 5ft of walking speed, one language, a +1 Ability Score, and a nebulous social clout feature. He gained Inspiration on waking up, one Skill Proficiency, 5gp starting coin (assuming Bards get a starting instrument and I don't have to buy that with Background gold), and two feats that already start him on his path toward being a gishy bard. It's a little bit of an adjustment, but I think I like it.
I’m afraid it’s too late for me to fix the thread title. My apologies.
I still don't like the system as it is, but it occurs to me that we can use the Build a Background feature to better represent a hybrid nature. Here's a sample background that could do this:
Half-Orc Outcast (for anything mixed with Orc) Abilities: +2 Str, +1 Con Skill Proficiencies: Survival, Perception Tool Proficiency: Herbalism Kit Language: Orcish Feat: Savage Attacker Equipment: (I'm not feeling writing out an equipment list right this minute) Too orc for one parent, not enough for another, you've been driven away. You've learned to survive on your own, and you've learned to be alert, ready for an attack from anyone. And above all, you've learned how to finish fights before they finish you. It's you against the world.
This is why I like the idea of a feat to allow you to "dip" into another race. There are a few feats that are really intuitive, but it'd be nice to have something that gives you a little something extra to show that your character is somewhat unusual.
Feats also still give half-humans/mostly humans their usual edge in multi...racing(?) since they get a racial feat before you dip into the background.
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I wanted to bring the conversation about half elves, half orcs, and other biracials here, because I feel like there’s a deeper and more focused discussion to be had: what does it mean to be biracial?
Under the system proposed in the UA, being biracials affects the way you look, your lifespan, and your roleplaying, but it doesn’t affect your racial abilities. My first impulse is: it isn’t enough. I love the idea of building my own biracials, as in some ways this feels like it gives me more options that I want to play with, but this also feels like it’s purely cosmetic.
That said, in a lot of speculative fiction, biracials feel that way. Some of the biggest examples:
-Elrond Half-Elven and his brother Elros from the Silmarilion and Lord of the Rings. Both were 3rd generation half elves. But, they each functioned as members of exactly one race. They were given a choice, and Elrond chose to be an Elf, Elros chose to be a human with a long life span, and that was that. Elrond’s kids got to make the choice as well.
-Spock of Star Trek: Half Vulcan, but for all intents and purposes aboard the Enterprise, people see the Vulcan. He’s culturally a Vulcan, has the mental abilities of a Vulcan, his human heritage creates internal conflict once in a while, plus the occasional judgment of his Vulcan people, but most of the time , he functions as a Vulcan.
-Garona Halforcen of Warcraft: half orc, half-they-really-haven’t-made-up-their-minds-to-the-point-it-doesn’t-matter. Orc enough that humans can’t tell the difference, but not enough for orcs.
All of this kinda flies in the face of my position that these races should be more than just cosmetic/RP functions. That said, part of my evaluations of these characters may be skewed by humanity: I see them less as my own people and more of the people their other parent came from. But what do you think? That’s probably the most important thing. If we as a player base want more out of our biracials, we should let Wizards know now. If we don’t, we should let them know now.
Finally, I’ll issue you a challenge: if you like the biracial system the way it is, make a biracial character with it and post it here. If you don’t, write up how you would make a half-elf, half-Orc, or whatever you want to see based on how they’ve written their races. I’d love to see what you come up with, either way.
Cross-posted from the general UA thread.
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I'm really underwhelmed by the half-race rules. My ideal fix to this would be relatively easy I think.
Basically the "special traits" for each race would mark certain traits as replaceable or swappable. You still choose all of the "special traits" for one parent's race, and then you can replace 1 trait from the other parent's race. The trait you replace and the trait you replace it with both have to be "replaceable".
I think you could probably make even more traits replaceable, but these ones all seem to be about on par power-wise. This would also allow WOTC to add more replaceable traits in future books to allow for more customization.
I'm about to start a new campaign in the next few hours, and my proposed character is a half elf ranger. If I made them in terms of the new UA they would turn out to be:
Race human
Background: Guide
But like you I find that this just doesn't sit right. The elf option has flavor but also, just doesn't sit right. (although one could say that's sort of the point)
Ultimately I think the issue is the Skilled and Versatile traits from the Human, it's just too darn bland (4 skills before your background or class is also a little nuts). I'd propose swapping them with Prodigy, the human/halfelf/halforc racial feat from Xanathars that gives 1 skill, 1 tool, and 1 language as well as 2x proficiency (expertise) in a skill of your choice. The rationale is the 'expertise' aspect. A half elf having expertise in perception or an orc having expertise in athletics or intimidation for example adds a LOT of character definition that 'skilled' just lacks.
Edit: alternatively you could have a level 1 feat called Elf Blood or Orc Blood and just swap the human feat to that.
The three examples you listed all follow exactly the kind of thing that WotC is doing. Hybrids are just cosmetic and background/RP changes. You even listed Spock and, for all intents and purposes, he functions exactly like a Vulcan. The inner conflict between his "halves" is nothing more than the DnD equivalent of RPing a character differently.
At the end of the day, I kind of prefer this option over overly complex hybrid rules. I would be fine if they existed but then WotC would have to consider every single combination of hybrid races that can be made and that's just a balancing nightmare. Even if it wasn't, the alternative would be even more boring if all we'd be getting is "Does my character get Darkvision or Damage Resistance?" because the options would definitely be very limited to the point where a half-Dragonborn/half-Tiefling would be mechanically exactly the same as a half-Ardling/half-Orc or something to that effect.
Oh, there's definitely an argument in favor of what Wizard's is doing. I just don't happen to agree with it. The literary precedent here is strong, but if it doesn't satify us, then Wizards shouldn't rely on it. As it is, I very much like the blow quoted system proposed by the shoeless fish.
I'd just do resourceful for human instead of skilled. Mere nuance however.
As it is proposed, some combinations work for me, some really don't. For instance, my first thought was to mix orc and tiefling. The tiefling racials are much more interesting to me..... but in my mind the parents are an orc and a demon, not a devil, yugoloth, etc. But, the poison themed racials don't work for me near as well as well as I'd like. I suppose I could use the orc racials instead and maybe go for one progenitor being a barlgura or goristro, double down on the muscle. On the other hand, the Abyssal heritage works perfect for a tiefling drow.
I think they should do the half-races like they are doing backgrounds. Create your own but give examples like half-elf and half-orc
They have been around so long they are almost a race themselves.
I think they should also have some appearance features that can be given as an example and you should need to take from each. I know some players who would play an Ardant/Human take all the traits of Ardant but look totally human.
Could list three to four appearance traits that each race tends to have and you need to select at least one from each.
It should be ancestry not "races", and "racial traits" are bunk. If you want to be a quarter orc, quarter Tiefling, half Elf, go for it. You get the same stat bonuses to put where you want as everyone else.
They should rank all the formerly "racial traits" and give you a pool to spend on them. Because clearly some are better than others. Better the trait, more it costs, but they're not linked to races. Mix and match how you want. All the current ancestries can be in the books as examples, and as they add new "ancestral traits" in new books as long as they have a cost to them you can keep integrating them.
(But I'd balance the original ones more personally. Seems dumb there are clear choices that go better with specific classes. Even if they didn't balance the the stock ancestries, at least you'd have the structure underneath to build new characters that wouldn't be wacky unbalanced. )
Character's personal appearance should just be flavoring. Go nuts. Or look just like the regular version of your ancestry.
I love how the race traits etc are set out like a template.
It makes it easier to hybridize.
But the current hybrid character build process suggested is not adequate.
Personally the idea of half races = one part flavor + one part mechanics is pretty underwhelming.
Our few tests so far have left us feeling like we want to combine all the race traits and then choose half.
Ie: if Dwarf has 5 traits, and Human has 3 traits, combined it’s 8 possible options, of which choose 4 (half of 8).
Though I suspect this could make some pretty op hybrids. But just utilizing one half just for flavor os almost pointless.
So I just sat down and actually wrote out the hybrids
1. Dwarf: Interesting point of Lore - Dwarves breed True. So the existing rules work. Anything + Dwarf = Dwarf traits with other cosmetics.
2. Ardlings/tieflings: Lumping these two because they also breed True, but for different reasons. The emergence of the Ardling/Tiefling traits overwrites the other racial traits. You could have 2 human parents and the Tiefling is still a Tiefling.
3. Orc: Add a new level 1 feat to the game Orc-Blooded: Grants Darkvision and the Relentless Endurance Trait. Obviously this lends itself to the humans with their bonus feat, but could be applied to any character as part of their background.
4. Elf: Add a new level 1 feat to the game Elf-Blooded: Grants Darkvision and the Fey Ancestry trait <see above>
5. Halflings - Use the UA rules (a halfling is the size of the 2-3 year old human. So I am not giving anymore thought to this)
6. Gnomes: Use the UA rules, I feel like the only reason to hybrid a Gnome would be cosmetic and that Gnomish Cunning is just a little too good to make into a feat.
7. Dragonborn: Use the UA rules. Assuming Dragonborn are even biologically compatible with the rest of the list, the other option would be to put the Dragon breath on a feat. And let's be honest here, with this current iteration I don't think anyone is going to take a feat for that ability.
Half <Race> could be a good way to do a background, or at least a Level 1 feat that fits into the background. Whenever they publish a new race, they could drop a corresponding Half <race> feat.
That way lies madness and a minmaxer hell. Imagine Aarakocentaur with flying speed and equine build and hooves. Warforgedortle with ultimate armor. Tieflardling who is on average a human.
I still like the primary/secondary trait distinction. Being able to swap any of the secondary traits would fix the issue for me.
It would only require 1 extra identifier for each trait. And 2-3 sentences to explain how it works mechanically. And it would also open so much more flexibility if wotc ever wanted to put out a list of generic "secondary traits" (maybe with parent race restrictions). You could even have generic secondary traits that work with mono-racial ancestries.
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I get the sentiment about wanting to simplify and streamline the character creation process, but 1) I don't necessarily see this design philosophy in other aspects of the rules, and 2) sometimes simple is the enemy if fun, and I don't think the current UA rules are very fun.
I'd like my character to feel unique mechanically, and not just aesthetically.
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I sort of like the racial feats idea, but I don't think it's very compatible with the way they're changing races/backgrounds. Racial feats only really make sense for half-humans, since the only other way to get a 1st-level feat is with the background. But I read the background as more about what your character did in their early life, and not what their racial ancestry is.
Look, the hand waving hybrid rule currently purposed work fine for that 1 in a million Dragonborn/Tortle but half orcs and elves have been a real demographic in every game I’ve played or DM’ed over the last 40 + years. You can’t just pull a 2nd Edition move and throw them out with the bath water Because the moral majority/woke/ PC police don’t like the implications of there conception.( as a historic note there were so few changes between first and second edition that it was in my opinion almost universal that everyone continue to play 1st Ed Half Orcs and assassins even after they were removed from 2nd Ed) .I’ve got a Fortified town in a mountain path, populated primarily by half orcs that have lived Reasonably peacefully with their neighbors for hundreds of years. I’m really disappointed with Wizards over this Direction. As Treantmonk says “D&D is for everyone” a statement I can get behind but apparently Wizards Are terrified by the concept that a human and a elf or a Orc and a human could have a consensual relationship let alone that two half orcs or half elves might have children. These are distinct races in D&D and all ways will be. Adding Orcs to the core rules will perhaps makes some people happier, but I can’t I imagine a city guard of water deep swinging open the gates for your orc PC. That’s the forgotten part of the half orc, as long as no one was really paying attention, doing something suspicious or illegal, they could blend in. Between 1st Ed &3rd Ed Half Orc went from the 10% of Half Orcs that could pass for human to the hulking Brutes of Games Workshops “Blood Bowl”. The crux of the problems was the introduction of the barbarian class and the removal of fixed multi class combinations. The opening up of multi classing to humans and the Mechanical push towards melee combatants for half orcs. The combination of fighter/assassin, fighter/ thief, assassin/cleric, cleric/fighter and cleric/thief led to a sneaky warrior ideal for a dungeon crawling or gritty urban adventure. About the only good thing about 4th Ed was the half orc +2 STR/+2 DEX helped reestablish the sneaky side of the of the race. The criticism for leaving the half orc out of the 4th Ed players handbook was vocal and one of the first things they talked about adding to the system to appease the general dislike of 4 th Ed. I must say I’m dismayed buy the general apathy to the removal of the Half Orc and even more so by the removal of the Half Elf. I suspect that a human only feat is the workaround that will show up eventually. Perhaps I’ll try to craft a feat that articulates the Half Orc as I see them.
I still don't like the system as it is, but it occurs to me that we can use the Build a Background feature to better represent a hybrid nature. Here's a sample background that could do this:
Half-Orc Outcast (for anything mixed with Orc)
Abilities: +2 Str, +1 Con
Skill Proficiencies: Survival, Perception
Tool Proficiency: Herbalism Kit
Language: Orcish
Feat: Savage Attacker
Equipment:
(I'm not feeling writing out an equipment list right this minute)
Too orc for one parent, not enough for another, you've been driven away. You've learned to survive on your own, and you've learned to be alert, ready for an attack from anyone. And above all, you've learned how to finish fights before they finish you. It's you against the world.
To the OP:
The examples you give are all author, director and actor defined not based on science. That does not mean that they do not have something to offer but it means that they should be analyses and thought of accordingly. The LotR example i think is explained in the books as hybrids have to determine if they are going to live like an elf or 1/2 elf, spock often in the movies talks about trying to be a vulcan but having some human traits and the last example I do not have enough info to provide an opinion.
In general I would like not to go back to D&D 3E and 1/2 Storm Giant and 1/2 halfling or 1/2 red dragon and 1/2 gnome. Why? Well I do not think every species can interbreed with each other and in general if you play that way you can get some very cartoon like races. Note I am not making any reference to modern society, I am saying that a bird cannot produce viable offspring with a lizard even if they are intelligent.
What I would like to see: I would like to see the official 1/2 races be defined by WotC and then have rules for GM's and player to create what ever hybrid races they want for their game.
Applying science to D&D races is... not a good idea. First of all, if they're actually different species, crossbreeds are either impossible, or are mules that are almost always sterile and don't breed true for the extremely rare non-sterile variant. Secondly, you simply aren't going to get the diversity of types you have in D&D anyway, because evolution just doesn't work that way.
Can I just make one request? Can we not use "hybrid" and "half-breed" to talk about people? Even if they are fictional characters? Can we instead use "biracial" or perhaps "multiracial?"
As for the challenge, here's me remaking my half elf character with the new system
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I’m afraid it’s too late for me to fix the thread title. My apologies.
nice build, thank you for taking that challenge.
I think you can edit it, actually. But also we could just stop using those terms going forward.
Thanks!
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
This is why I like the idea of a feat to allow you to "dip" into another race. There are a few feats that are really intuitive, but it'd be nice to have something that gives you a little something extra to show that your character is somewhat unusual.
Feats also still give half-humans/mostly humans their usual edge in multi...racing(?) since they get a racial feat before you dip into the background.