I have built a couple warlocks now and both times I considered, and then discarded Pack of the Chain because I felt it would take fun out of the game because it is too good.
I imagine, with every new area to explore, if you had an intelligent, shape changing, flying, invisible scout, that (for the cost of 1 invocation) you can communicate with and use the senses thereof at any distance, you would use it. Every time.
Seems boring to have the group stop and wait for the scout to map out an area, taking perhaps even more time and spotlight to bypass the few things that can detect or threaten it, and then we get handed a map we didn't have to work for and ruin our own fun.
Am I being silly? I'd like the use Pact of the Chain sometime, seems like a ton of fun, this issue aside. How has your DM or group avoided this pitfall, or have you encountered this issue?
There are lots of ways a DM can trap an invisible, flying familiar with dark vision. Don’t worry about it being overpowered, the other two pacts have powerful abilities too.
I agree with Tim, A good DM will find ways to challenge your "scout" and not just allow you free reign over collecting all the information up front. (i'm not a DM but i do play a PotC Warlock). I'd be rather disappointed as a player if it was that easy...
And if you are playing in a game where your DM just lets you scout everything out, maybe say something to them about making it more challenging.
I only just hit Warlock 3 at the end of last session, and my group's Monk grabbed a level in Rogue and expertise in stealth. So rather than step on his toes regarding scouting, I'm going to send my familiar with him so we have two sets of eyes on things and he can have advantage on stealth checks and other things my familiar can help with. Or alternatively, we can scout two directions simultaneously!
1) The familiar isn't that great at perception. Since you're clearly talking about an imp or quasit, its passive perception is 10, 11 at most, and never grows. It may give you the shape of the rooms, but hidden passages, traps, and more are unlikely to be detected by such a scout.
2) Since it's a tiny creature which potentially is flying, many traps which are looking for things like pressure, tripwires, and more, won't be triggered by it. So again, you're going in blind. However, if any *are* triggered, it's dead as a doornail, which means you're out either your familiar or a spell slot until you rest again, as a PotC Warlock is not a ritual caster.
3) Any creature which does notice it (and there are many that can, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is they're not automatically silent or without traces of their passage) will likely kill it, as it's on its own and totally isolated from you.
4) In exchange for this ability, you're giving up the ability to ritual cast *all* spells, which is a reduction of about 30 spells known and a loss of a TON of utility. It had Better come in handy now and again!
I really, really wouldn't worry about it being overpowered.
I have built a couple warlocks now and both times I considered, and then discarded Pack of the Chain because I felt it would take fun out of the game because it is too good.
I imagine, with every new area to explore, if you had an intelligent, shape changing, flying, invisible scout, that (for the cost of 1 invocation) you can communicate with and use the senses thereof at any distance, you would use it. Every time.
Seems boring to have the group stop and wait for the scout to map out an area, taking perhaps even more time and spotlight to bypass the few things that can detect or threaten it, and then we get handed a map we didn't have to work for and ruin our own fun.
Am I being silly? I'd like the use Pact of the Chain sometime, seems like a ton of fun, this issue aside. How has your DM or group avoided this pitfall, or have you encountered this issue?
To good a scout? You mean like a rogue scouting a head with expertise in investigation and perception, the observant feat, and 14 int/wis so that they have a passive perception/investigation of 23 at level 5 (that scales higher as they level), not even needing to roll to scout, spot traps, or see hiding enemies because your group uses the passives as a minimum per Jeremy Crawford's clarifications? Like that too good?
Or do you mean too good because you have relatively low perception invisible scout that can spot the obvious but because its flying will not spot or trigger any traps/hidden enemies prior to the group going in? I will grant you pact of the chain lets the scout watch the front and back of the group with devils sight at the same time or send their familiar they gamble and drink at a local bar... but I personally think they are good enough to be useful and fun but they are not broken.
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The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.
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I have built a couple warlocks now and both times I considered, and then discarded Pack of the Chain because I felt it would take fun out of the game because it is too good.
I imagine, with every new area to explore, if you had an intelligent, shape changing, flying, invisible scout, that (for the cost of 1 invocation) you can communicate with and use the senses thereof at any distance, you would use it. Every time.
Seems boring to have the group stop and wait for the scout to map out an area, taking perhaps even more time and spotlight to bypass the few things that can detect or threaten it, and then we get handed a map we didn't have to work for and ruin our own fun.
Am I being silly? I'd like the use Pact of the Chain sometime, seems like a ton of fun, this issue aside. How has your DM or group avoided this pitfall, or have you encountered this issue?
There are lots of ways a DM can trap an invisible, flying familiar with dark vision. Don’t worry about it being overpowered, the other two pacts have powerful abilities too.
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I agree with Tim, A good DM will find ways to challenge your "scout" and not just allow you free reign over collecting all the information up front. (i'm not a DM but i do play a PotC Warlock). I'd be rather disappointed as a player if it was that easy...
And if you are playing in a game where your DM just lets you scout everything out, maybe say something to them about making it more challenging.
I only just hit Warlock 3 at the end of last session, and my group's Monk grabbed a level in Rogue and expertise in stealth. So rather than step on his toes regarding scouting, I'm going to send my familiar with him so we have two sets of eyes on things and he can have advantage on stealth checks and other things my familiar can help with. Or alternatively, we can scout two directions simultaneously!
1) The familiar isn't that great at perception. Since you're clearly talking about an imp or quasit, its passive perception is 10, 11 at most, and never grows. It may give you the shape of the rooms, but hidden passages, traps, and more are unlikely to be detected by such a scout.
2) Since it's a tiny creature which potentially is flying, many traps which are looking for things like pressure, tripwires, and more, won't be triggered by it. So again, you're going in blind. However, if any *are* triggered, it's dead as a doornail, which means you're out either your familiar or a spell slot until you rest again, as a PotC Warlock is not a ritual caster.
3) Any creature which does notice it (and there are many that can, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is they're not automatically silent or without traces of their passage) will likely kill it, as it's on its own and totally isolated from you.
4) In exchange for this ability, you're giving up the ability to ritual cast *all* spells, which is a reduction of about 30 spells known and a loss of a TON of utility. It had Better come in handy now and again!
I really, really wouldn't worry about it being overpowered.
Agreed your DM can find ways to kill lil'nasty if he/she wants to. No need to worry about being overpowered.
So let those Nerdlocks have thier books, you've got a *****in' invisibile, shapeshiftin' imp!
Abide.
The lack of inflection in text means that a reader of any post adds their own inflection as they "verbalize" it in their head. I write long and repetitive in an effort to be clear and avoid my intent from being skewed or inverted. I am also bad at examples. It is common for people to skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of the point I am actually trying to make. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.