So I have an idea of a crossbow-wielding Hexblade who not only shoots arrows from his crossbow but also his spells (i.e. instead of an acid orb it's an acid bolt). Taking Pact Weapon and Improved Pact weapon means that his crossbow can become his arcane focus (and yes, specially prepared bolts for those spells that need expensive materials), the loading of bolts the somatic component, the words verbally transforming them into magic.
What I need is how to build him to get to that point. What I was thinking was the following:
Variant Human to get the feat Crossbow Expert to ignore the loading property, losing the Disadvantage at 5 feet not only with the crossbow but also in spell casting, and when using the Attack action with the Hand Crossbow can use a bonus action to fire again
Start off as Fighter to get both decent armor in case someone runs up on him, and the Archery Fighting style which gives +2 to attack rolls with ranged weapons
Still trying to decide how many levels of Fighter I want, at least 4 or 5. At 4 I would use the ASI to get the feet Sharpshooter so attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage, ignoring half and 3/4 cover and on those times I think I'm sure to hit, take a -5 to hit for +10 to damage. If I stick it out to 5 I get an Extra Attack which would bring me up to 3 attacks. I was thinking of Eldritch Knight to get more spell slots to use, even if it would only be a few. It also gives me access to other spells to supplement what Warlock doesn't have.
I would be itching to switch to Warlock at this point, with Hexblade as my Patron taking Eldritch Blast at the very least. When I can, taking Pact Weapon and Improved Pact weapon getting +1 to attack/damage and the ability to summon his weapon. At that point decide if I want to stay with Hand Crossbow or upgrade to Heavy Crossbow which would lose out on an attack so may not be worth it for the extra damage it does. Hex Warrior would let me use CHA instead of Dex once I get Pact of the Blade and would extend to the Heavy Crossbow.
The only other things I know I would get would be Thirsting Blade which would add another attack and eventually Lifedrinker so that they take extra Necrotic damage equal to my CHA modifier.
As far as other cantrips/spells all I know are ones like Hex, Darkness (paired with Devil Sight to give them Disadvantage ).
So, what I need is advice. Is this just a crazy idea? Do you see any issues that might crop up? Do you have advice on which Cantrips and Spells to take maximize the theme of the build? Do I need to take Agonizing Blast? Change the levels of what I take when? Another class that might help, such as a level of Rogue for Sneak Attack to increase the pain, I am open to it all.
And yes, I have discussed the concept with my DM and he's on board as long as it's within the rules.
I would say that spells from the crossbow would be more flavour/rp than actual spell bolts. I would say take arcane archer, then get arcana and prestidigitation. Then take the enfeebling and shadow arrow shots. After level 4, go to to warlock. If you were to go to fighter again, only go three more ( to get the extra shot: beguiling shot, and magic arrows.). Once had a similar idea. Hope this helped.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
This is great if it meets your character goals. At what character level do you want this to come online? It looks like you'll want either five levels of fighter or warlock so that you can get a second attack in, so you're looking at a minimum of 3/5 or 5/3. How playable will your character be during those eight levels, or are you starting at level 8?
You also have to consider that you need a magic hand crossbow if you want it to be your pact weapon, since you can't summon a hand crossbow as your pact weapon. You can, however, use a regular hand crossbow as your hex weapon.
You also have to consider that you need a magic hand crossbow if you want it to be your pact weapon, since you can't summon a hand crossbow as your pact weapon. You can, however, use a regular hand crossbow as your hex weapon.
They're taking improved pact weapon, which makes your weapon +1, can be a light, heavy crossbow or long/shortbow. Also it's your spellcasting focus.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
Of course, you could always use one of the ranged options provided by Improved Pact Weapon. These are all viable options. Unfortunately, they don't include a hand crossbow, which I would consider the strongest option for this kind of build, especially when you want to use Sharpshooter and Lifedrinker, as that extra attack stacks nicely with those kinds of effects. A hand crossbow can, however, only ever be your pact weapon if you use the 1 hour ritual on a magic hand crossbow.
If you're not starting at level 8, I would consider taking only one level of Fighter and then going into Hexblade until you get Thirsting Blade. If you get more levels of Fighter at the beginning, you dramatically delay your extra attack and also your Hex Warrior, which are just too strong to not get as soon as possible. You could, of course, also get five levels of Fighter for Extra Attack, but that would heavily delay your spellcasting ability and deny you the best spells in the end (if your campaign goes that far). Personally, I wouldn't do that.
I would argue, you won't need Eldritch Blast at all if you take the feats and invocations you mentioned.
I would say that spells from the crossbow would be more flavour/rp than actual spell bolts. I would say take arcane archer, then get arcana and prestidigitation. Then take the enfeebling and shadow arrow shots. After level 4, go to to warlock. If you were to go to fighter again, only go three more ( to get the extra shot: beguiling shot, and magic arrows.). Once had a similar idea. Hope this helped.
I would take Arcane Archer, but I would prefer it for flavour to be a Crossbow, and AA is longbow/shortbow only I believe. If I am wrong and it can be used with a crossbow I am more than willing to look into that option!
This is great if it meets your character goals. At what character level do you want this to come online? It looks like you'll want either five levels of fighter or warlock so that you can get a second attack in, so you're looking at a minimum of 3/5 or 5/3. How playable will your character be during those eight levels, or are you starting at level 8?
We are starting at level 1, so it's going to be slow going no matter what. I had thought to stack the fighter levels first for survivability, and also to get the extra feat at level 4.
Of course, you could always use one of the ranged options provided by Improved Pact Weapon. These are all viable options. Unfortunately, they don't include a hand crossbow, which I would consider the strongest option for this kind of build, especially when you want to use Sharpshooter and Lifedrinker, as that extra attack stacks nicely with those kinds of effects. A hand crossbow can, however, only ever be your pact weapon if you use the 1 hour ritual on a magic hand crossbow.
If you're not starting at level 8, I would consider taking only one level of Fighter and then going into Hexblade until you get Thirsting Blade. If you get more levels of Fighter at the beginning, you dramatically delay your extra attack and also your Hex Warrior, which are just too strong to not get as soon as possible. You could, of course, also get five levels of Fighter for Extra Attack, but that would heavily delay your spellcasting ability and deny you the best spells in the end (if your campaign goes that far). Personally, I wouldn't do that.
I would argue, you won't need Eldritch Blast at all if you take the feats and invocations you mentioned.
Hmmm, I may look into that, tho it would delay Sharpshooter and the extra spell slots from Eldrich Knight, but I can try the options and see if it fits better.
You also have to consider that you need a magic hand crossbow if you want it to be your pact weapon, since you can't summon a hand crossbow as your pact weapon. You can, however, use a regular hand crossbow as your hex weapon.
They're taking improved pact weapon, which makes your weapon +1, can be a light, heavy crossbow or long/shortbow. Also it's your spellcasting focus.
I definitely know about the restriction on a magic hand crossbow and hope I will be able to get one sooner rather than later. And I do have a light crossbow to start out with until I can get IPW.
Still trying to decide how many levels of Fighter I want, at least 4 or 5. At 4 I would use the ASI to get the feet Sharpshooter so attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage, ignoring half and 3/4 cover and on those times I think I'm sure to hit, take a -5 to hit for +10 to damage. If I stick it out to 5 I get an Extra Attack which would bring me up to 3 attacks.
Extra attack from fighter does not stack with thirsting blade. You can only get up to two attacks this way.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Still trying to decide how many levels of Fighter I want, at least 4 or 5. At 4 I would use the ASI to get the feet Sharpshooter so attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage, ignoring half and 3/4 cover and on those times I think I'm sure to hit, take a -5 to hit for +10 to damage. If I stick it out to 5 I get an Extra Attack which would bring me up to 3 attacks.
Extra attack from fighter does not stack with thirsting blade. You can only get up to two attacks this way.
Hey there, Could you please link me to where it says it does not stack?
If you gain the Extra Attack class feature from more than one class, the features don't add together. You can't make more than two attacks with this feature unless it says you do (as the fighter's version of Extra Attack does). Similarly, the warlock's eldritch invocation Thirsting Blade doesn't give you additional attacks if you also have Extra Attack.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
So, with all the advice I've modified what I am going to do greatly.
Same concept but different execution:
Variant Human to get the feat Crossbow Expert to ignore the loading property, losing the Disadvantage at 5 feet not only with the crossbow but also in spell casting, and when using the Attack action with the Hand Crossbow can use a bonus action to fire again
Start off as Fighter to get both decent armor in case someone runs up on him, and the Archery Fighting style which gives +2 to attack rolls with ranged weapons. Take a second level of fighter to get Action Surge to get another action at the soonest point. It is also more flexible than Thirsting Blade as it can be any type of action, not just attack.
Take a 3rd level of Fighter to get Edritch Knight and some more spell slots to round out spell casting
1 more level of Warlock to get One with the Shadows to enable attacking from Invisibility or a way to drop out of combat to reposition
This brings me to level 10. I'd re-evaluate at that point to just continue with Warlock or look into adding another class. Definitely still looking for suggestions on that, or should I stick with Warlock or Fighter?
If you want decent armour, you can still stay warlock. As you are wielding crossbows, dex should be high. So get studded leather, or get the armour of Shadows invocation, so your ac is good.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
Fighter also gives him con proficiency to help with the conc saving throws on hex.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I‘m afraid, your proposed build won’t be particularly effective at what it wants to do.
For a martial character attacking twice per attack action is among the most powerful things you can do, more so if you take the Sharpshooter feat. So it should be your top priority to get access to either Extra Attack or Thirsting Blade as soon as possible. Not having any form of extra attack by level 10 would leave your character painfully lacking in damage.
You also want to utilize Hex Warrior. Using your Charisma modifier for attack and damage rolls is a godsend in a feat-heavy build that also wants to have good spellcasting.
That leaves you with two options:
Fighter 1, Warlock 5 for Thirsting Blade, then whatever you want (if you can get a magic hand crossbow)
Fighter 1, Warlock 1, Fighter 4 for Extra Attack, then whatever you want
If you go with option one, you can change Thirsting Blade for another invocation as soon as you get Extra Attack from Fighter, since you can replace one of your invocations any time you get a level of Warlock. You should also remember that Improved Pact Weapon won’t work with a nonmagical hand crossbow.
Either option only needs 14 Dexterity if you’re wearing medium armor, which I would recommend.
I‘m afraid, your proposed build won’t be particularly effective at what it wants to do.
For a martial character attacking twice per attack action is among the most powerful things you can do, more so if you take the Sharpshooter feat. So it should be your top priority to get access to either Extra Attack or Thirsting Blade as soon as possible. Not having any form of extra attack by level 10 would leave your character painfully lacking in damage.
You also want to utilize Hex Warrior. Using your Charisma modifier for attack and damage rolls is a godsend in a feat-heavy build that also wants to have good spellcasting.
That leaves you with two options:
Fighter 1, Warlock 5 for Thirsting Blade, then whatever you want (if you can get a magic hand crossbow)
Fighter 1, Warlock 1, Fighter 4 for Extra Attack, then whatever you want
If you go with option one, you can change Thirsting Blade for another invocation as soon as you get Extra Attack from Fighter, since you can replace one of your invocations any time you get a level of Warlock. You should also remember that Improved Pact Weapon won’t work with a nonmagical hand crossbow.
Either option only needs 14 Dexterity if you’re wearing medium armor, which I would recommend.
I really wish there was an archery version of the SCAG melee cantrips to prop up single shot bow users a bit.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Another option is always to reflavour your arcane focus to take the shape of an crossbow. Then you can simply handle your eldritch blasts as "shots" from the crossbow. Agonizing blast alone is enough to make that viable. Of course this only works if your GM is fine with it and it also has some awkward sideeffects like you being not able to shoot while silenced.
Otherwise i would fully agree with Shinshaky's synopsis.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hi there,
So I have an idea of a crossbow-wielding Hexblade who not only shoots arrows from his crossbow but also his spells (i.e. instead of an acid orb it's an acid bolt). Taking Pact Weapon and Improved Pact weapon means that his crossbow can become his arcane focus (and yes, specially prepared bolts for those spells that need expensive materials), the loading of bolts the somatic component, the words verbally transforming them into magic.
What I need is how to build him to get to that point. What I was thinking was the following:
Variant Human to get the feat Crossbow Expert to ignore the loading property, losing the Disadvantage at 5 feet not only with the crossbow but also in spell casting, and when using the Attack action with the Hand Crossbow can use a bonus action to fire again
Start off as Fighter to get both decent armor in case someone runs up on him, and the Archery Fighting style which gives +2 to attack rolls with ranged weapons
Still trying to decide how many levels of Fighter I want, at least 4 or 5. At 4 I would use the ASI to get the feet Sharpshooter so attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage, ignoring half and 3/4 cover and on those times I think I'm sure to hit, take a -5 to hit for +10 to damage. If I stick it out to 5 I get an Extra Attack which would bring me up to 3 attacks. I was thinking of Eldritch Knight to get more spell slots to use, even if it would only be a few. It also gives me access to other spells to supplement what Warlock doesn't have.
I would be itching to switch to Warlock at this point, with Hexblade as my Patron taking Eldritch Blast at the very least. When I can, taking Pact Weapon and Improved Pact weapon getting +1 to attack/damage and the ability to summon his weapon. At that point decide if I want to stay with Hand Crossbow or upgrade to Heavy Crossbow which would lose out on an attack so may not be worth it for the extra damage it does. Hex Warrior would let me use CHA instead of Dex once I get Pact of the Blade and would extend to the Heavy Crossbow.
The only other things I know I would get would be Thirsting Blade which would add another attack and eventually Lifedrinker so that they take extra Necrotic damage equal to my CHA modifier.
As far as other cantrips/spells all I know are ones like Hex, Darkness (paired with Devil Sight to give them Disadvantage ).
So, what I need is advice. Is this just a crazy idea? Do you see any issues that might crop up? Do you have advice on which Cantrips and Spells to take maximize the theme of the build? Do I need to take Agonizing Blast? Change the levels of what I take when? Another class that might help, such as a level of Rogue for Sneak Attack to increase the pain, I am open to it all.
And yes, I have discussed the concept with my DM and he's on board as long as it's within the rules.
I would say that spells from the crossbow would be more flavour/rp than actual spell bolts. I would say take arcane archer, then get arcana and prestidigitation. Then take the enfeebling and shadow arrow shots. After level 4, go to to warlock. If you were to go to fighter again, only go three more ( to get the extra shot: beguiling shot, and magic arrows.). Once had a similar idea. Hope this helped.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
This is great if it meets your character goals. At what character level do you want this to come online? It looks like you'll want either five levels of fighter or warlock so that you can get a second attack in, so you're looking at a minimum of 3/5 or 5/3. How playable will your character be during those eight levels, or are you starting at level 8?
You also have to consider that you need a magic hand crossbow if you want it to be your pact weapon, since you can't summon a hand crossbow as your pact weapon. You can, however, use a regular hand crossbow as your hex weapon.
They're taking improved pact weapon, which makes your weapon +1, can be a light, heavy crossbow or long/shortbow. Also it's your spellcasting focus.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
Of course, you could always use one of the ranged options provided by Improved Pact Weapon. These are all viable options. Unfortunately, they don't include a hand crossbow, which I would consider the strongest option for this kind of build, especially when you want to use Sharpshooter and Lifedrinker, as that extra attack stacks nicely with those kinds of effects. A hand crossbow can, however, only ever be your pact weapon if you use the 1 hour ritual on a magic hand crossbow.
If you're not starting at level 8, I would consider taking only one level of Fighter and then going into Hexblade until you get Thirsting Blade. If you get more levels of Fighter at the beginning, you dramatically delay your extra attack and also your Hex Warrior, which are just too strong to not get as soon as possible. You could, of course, also get five levels of Fighter for Extra Attack, but that would heavily delay your spellcasting ability and deny you the best spells in the end (if your campaign goes that far). Personally, I wouldn't do that.
I would argue, you won't need Eldritch Blast at all if you take the feats and invocations you mentioned.
I would take Arcane Archer, but I would prefer it for flavour to be a Crossbow, and AA is longbow/shortbow only I believe. If I am wrong and it can be used with a crossbow I am more than willing to look into that option!
We are starting at level 1, so it's going to be slow going no matter what. I had thought to stack the fighter levels first for survivability, and also to get the extra feat at level 4.
Hmmm, I may look into that, tho it would delay Sharpshooter and the extra spell slots from Eldrich Knight, but I can try the options and see if it fits better.
I definitely know about the restriction on a magic hand crossbow and hope I will be able to get one sooner rather than later. And I do have a light crossbow to start out with until I can get IPW.
Extra attack from fighter does not stack with thirsting blade. You can only get up to two attacks this way.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Hey there, Could you please link me to where it says it does not stack?
P 164 of the PHB:
Extra Attack
If you gain the Extra Attack class feature from more than one class, the features don't add together. You can't make more than two attacks with this feature unless it says you do (as the fighter's version of Extra Attack does). Similarly, the warlock's eldritch invocation Thirsting Blade doesn't give you additional attacks if you also have Extra Attack.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Oooh! Thanks! So no Thirsting Blade. I appreciate the info.
So, with all the advice I've modified what I am going to do greatly.
Same concept but different execution:
Variant Human to get the feat Crossbow Expert to ignore the loading property, losing the Disadvantage at 5 feet not only with the crossbow but also in spell casting, and when using the Attack action with the Hand Crossbow can use a bonus action to fire again
Start off as Fighter to get both decent armor in case someone runs up on him, and the Archery Fighting style which gives +2 to attack rolls with ranged weapons. Take a second level of fighter to get Action Surge to get another action at the soonest point. It is also more flexible than Thirsting Blade as it can be any type of action, not just attack.
After that, start taking 6 Warlock levels:
Hexblade Patron
Pact of the Blade
Eldritch Invocations: Devil's Sight, Agonizing Blast, Improved Pact Weapon
Use ASI to get Sharpshooter
Take a 3rd level of Fighter to get Edritch Knight and some more spell slots to round out spell casting
1 more level of Warlock to get One with the Shadows to enable attacking from Invisibility or a way to drop out of combat to reposition
This brings me to level 10. I'd re-evaluate at that point to just continue with Warlock or look into adding another class. Definitely still looking for suggestions on that, or should I stick with Warlock or Fighter?
If you want decent armour, you can still stay warlock. As you are wielding crossbows, dex should be high. So get studded leather, or get the armour of Shadows invocation, so your ac is good.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
Fighter also gives him con proficiency to help with the conc saving throws on hex.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I‘m afraid, your proposed build won’t be particularly effective at what it wants to do.
For a martial character attacking twice per attack action is among the most powerful things you can do, more so if you take the Sharpshooter feat. So it should be your top priority to get access to either Extra Attack or Thirsting Blade as soon as possible. Not having any form of extra attack by level 10 would leave your character painfully lacking in damage.
You also want to utilize Hex Warrior. Using your Charisma modifier for attack and damage rolls is a godsend in a feat-heavy build that also wants to have good spellcasting.
That leaves you with two options:
If you go with option one, you can change Thirsting Blade for another invocation as soon as you get Extra Attack from Fighter, since you can replace one of your invocations any time you get a level of Warlock. You should also remember that Improved Pact Weapon won’t work with a nonmagical hand crossbow.
Either option only needs 14 Dexterity if you’re wearing medium armor, which I would recommend.
I really wish there was an archery version of the SCAG melee cantrips to prop up single shot bow users a bit.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Another option is always to reflavour your arcane focus to take the shape of an crossbow. Then you can simply handle your eldritch blasts as "shots" from the crossbow. Agonizing blast alone is enough to make that viable. Of course this only works if your GM is fine with it and it also has some awkward sideeffects like you being not able to shoot while silenced.
Otherwise i would fully agree with Shinshaky's synopsis.