These are things that I'm not sure are directly covered by the rules but I'm curious how people would rule.
1. If you cast forbiddance such as from a ritual in your vessel, can you enter leave yourself? My assumption is no, but that type of planar travel may be different than the types listed. Would that then let you stay longer than the proficiency bonus x2 limit.
2. If you bring someone in as a corpse so as a object and then bring them back to life while they are in there would the same rules for your level 10 feature on how/when they leave apply or are they stuck. It is a obscure enough situation, I kind of like the stuck option. But not sure if it tracks.
I guess this is going to depend upon how your DM is willing to interpret "planar travel", i.e- is an extra dimensional space its own plane? I think RAW the answer is probably that they were, so entering/leaving the bottle would be forbidden as well, but your DM is always free to make an exception, e.g- if they're happy to allow your forbiddance to make a specific exception.
Sounds like they probably would be trapped! At least, not unless they're happy to be killed and carried out as a corpse again. If your DM allows a bag of holding inside the bottle (definitely ask first, or you're going to end up ripping a hole into the astral plane) then you could maybe ferry people in and out inside the bag (if they'll fit through the opening) rather than having to kill and revivify them somehow. More generally, you are the only creature who can choose to leave, others can only be ejected by you, and you don't gain that ability until 10th-level. The only other way I assume would be to kill you, or for an ally of theirs to destroy the vessel. Otherwise there's definitely the possibility of using it as an extra dimensional prison.
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1. If you cast forbiddance such as from a ritual in your vessel, can you enter leave yourself? My assumption is no, but that type of planar travel may be different than the types listed. Would that then let you stay longer than the proficiency bonus x2 limit.
No. The vessel's interior is considered an extradimensional space and the feature magically transports you into and out of it - which is a form of planar travel. The spell Forbiddance spell specifically prevents all forms of teleportation and planar travel. However, as a DM I would play more importance on intention - the idea is to protect your space, so if you wanted to protect your vessel but still go in I would say fine. This is, however, a houserule.
But anyway, yes, there's also what TwoFaceTony said:
2. If you bring someone in as a corpse so as a object and then bring them back to life while they are in there would the same rules for your level 10 feature on how/when they leave apply or are they stuck. It is a obscure enough situation, I kind of like the stuck option. But not sure if it tracks.
All spells except True Resurrection that resurrect people require you to touch the body. True Resurrection can avoid this but the creature is given a new body within 10 ft of you. So, in no case can you leave a corpse, exit the vessel, then resurrect them as being still inside the vessel. The feature specifies only willing creatures can be brought into the vessel with you. Any creatures (and yes, dead creatures are still creatures) are also ejected if you leave the vessel. Finally, there is nothing preventing them breaking the vessel from inside and escaping that way.
--
The vessel is specifically designed to be a safe space and not a prison. If you want to make prisons, consider Demiplane or Imprisonment spells.
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I think 1 is being read the same way, and its how I read it as well when asking, but I was not positive if it was considered planar travel, though now i'm wondering if you can reach into a bag of holding in a Forbiddance . But I guess if it does not allow planar travel, if you cast the ritual while inside does this allow you to bypass your limit of x2 proficiency bonus in hours inside, or does that rule supersede it.
2. There seems to be some disagreement here. While they still have the creature tag on some level, they are also objects at that point. Not that I put huge weight into sage advice style things but Jeremy Crawford has stated corpses are objects. Though raise dead target dead creatures, though that might just be a way to say you can't raise dead a stone. It had to have been a creature that is now dead and now a object
. So if considered a creature, they'd have to be willing to go in and could only be carried in level 10. but if they are a object they could be carried in while dead like any other object in the game limited to whatever your GM allows you to carry in weight, bulk wise. Once in if you raised them while they were in there they may be trapped but maybe they could break the ring from the inside. I'll admit it read to me as only being vulnerable to attacks from the outside but it does not specify.
All spells except True Resurrection that resurrect people require you to touch the body. True Resurrection can avoid this but the creature is given a new body within 10 ft of you. So, in no case can you leave a corpse, exit the vessel, then resurrect them as being still inside the vessel. The feature specifies only willing creatures can be brought into the vessel with you. Any creatures (and yes, dead creatures are still creatures) are also ejected if you leave the vessel. Finally, there is nothing preventing them breaking the vessel from inside and escaping that way.
They don't actually need to exit the vessel to make this RAW exploit work.
The exploit exists because the condition that causes creatures to be ejected from the bottle doesn't technically apply until you gain it at 10th-level. This means that for 1st- to 9th-level, if you can bring a creature inside by any means then you can trap it there (not even you can force it out without destroying your own vessel or going inside and killing it).
While a corpse is "a creature that has died" for the purposes of revivify, they're also objects, so you can carry one inside like you would any other item, and objects remain when you leave, if you want to leave it there for some reason.
However, you can also revivify it inside the bottle, then immediately leave as a bonus action. Since at this point the bottle does not eject creatures when you leave, the raised creature is trapped inside.
Now I agree with you that this is unlikely to be intended; I think it's just sloppily written and that the creatures being forced out part should be in the 1st-level rule. Especially since there are multiple other ways to get creatures inside, such as dismissing a familiar to its pocket dimension then bringing it back once you're inside, or summoning something in there directly and so-on. You might also argue that a person hiding in a bag of holding can enter with you (if your DM allows a bag of holding inside the bottle, RAW they probably shouldn't since the bottle kind of already is one anyway).
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Unrelated question: can other people I bring into the vessel also hear outside like I can?
Rules As Written no, as it only says "you" (the Warlock owner of the vessel) can hear outside it, rather than saying "creatures inside the vessel" or similar. Hard to say if that's intentional or an oversight as with other issues involving guests.
I think it makes sense that only the Warlock would be able to sense what's outside though, since they're the one bound to the vessel in much the same way as an actual genie might be.
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I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Responding to the second question. Until level 10 only objects are ejected from the vessel when it's destroyed. The trapped creature could destroy the vessel from the inside but that won't help them escape. You can perform a 1-hour ceremony to receive a replacement vessel, it's not necessarily an identical copy of the destroyed vessel with all the same contents. Before level 10 if you bring a corpse into the vessel, revive them, and destroy the vessel then they won't be anywhere. You specifically leave the vessel early if it's destroyed so you are immune to this.
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These are things that I'm not sure are directly covered by the rules but I'm curious how people would rule.
1. If you cast forbiddance such as from a ritual in your vessel, can you enter leave yourself? My assumption is no, but that type of planar travel may be different than the types listed. Would that then let you stay longer than the proficiency bonus x2 limit.
2. If you bring someone in as a corpse so as a object and then bring them back to life while they are in there would the same rules for your level 10 feature on how/when they leave apply or are they stuck. It is a obscure enough situation, I kind of like the stuck option. But not sure if it tracks.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Don't forget, you could just break the vessel which would eject anything, and anyone, that's in the vessel.
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No. The vessel's interior is considered an extradimensional space and the feature magically transports you into and out of it - which is a form of planar travel. The spell Forbiddance spell specifically prevents all forms of teleportation and planar travel. However, as a DM I would play more importance on intention - the idea is to protect your space, so if you wanted to protect your vessel but still go in I would say fine. This is, however, a houserule.
But anyway, yes, there's also what TwoFaceTony said:
On to number 2!
All spells except True Resurrection that resurrect people require you to touch the body. True Resurrection can avoid this but the creature is given a new body within 10 ft of you. So, in no case can you leave a corpse, exit the vessel, then resurrect them as being still inside the vessel. The feature specifies only willing creatures can be brought into the vessel with you. Any creatures (and yes, dead creatures are still creatures) are also ejected if you leave the vessel. Finally, there is nothing preventing them breaking the vessel from inside and escaping that way.
--
The vessel is specifically designed to be a safe space and not a prison. If you want to make prisons, consider Demiplane or Imprisonment spells.
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Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I think 1 is being read the same way, and its how I read it as well when asking, but I was not positive if it was considered planar travel, though now i'm wondering if you can reach into a bag of holding in a Forbiddance . But I guess if it does not allow planar travel, if you cast the ritual while inside does this allow you to bypass your limit of x2 proficiency bonus in hours inside, or does that rule supersede it.
2. There seems to be some disagreement here. While they still have the creature tag on some level, they are also objects at that point. Not that I put huge weight into sage advice style things but Jeremy Crawford has stated corpses are objects. Though raise dead target dead creatures, though that might just be a way to say you can't raise dead a stone. It had to have been a creature that is now dead and now a object
. So if considered a creature, they'd have to be willing to go in and could only be carried in level 10. but if they are a object they could be carried in while dead like any other object in the game limited to whatever your GM allows you to carry in weight, bulk wise. Once in if you raised them while they were in there they may be trapped but maybe they could break the ring from the inside. I'll admit it read to me as only being vulnerable to attacks from the outside but it does not specify.
Thanks for all the answers.
They don't actually need to exit the vessel to make this RAW exploit work.
The exploit exists because the condition that causes creatures to be ejected from the bottle doesn't technically apply until you gain it at 10th-level. This means that for 1st- to 9th-level, if you can bring a creature inside by any means then you can trap it there (not even you can force it out without destroying your own vessel or going inside and killing it).
While a corpse is "a creature that has died" for the purposes of revivify, they're also objects, so you can carry one inside like you would any other item, and objects remain when you leave, if you want to leave it there for some reason.
However, you can also revivify it inside the bottle, then immediately leave as a bonus action. Since at this point the bottle does not eject creatures when you leave, the raised creature is trapped inside.
Now I agree with you that this is unlikely to be intended; I think it's just sloppily written and that the creatures being forced out part should be in the 1st-level rule. Especially since there are multiple other ways to get creatures inside, such as dismissing a familiar to its pocket dimension then bringing it back once you're inside, or summoning something in there directly and so-on. You might also argue that a person hiding in a bag of holding can enter with you (if your DM allows a bag of holding inside the bottle, RAW they probably shouldn't since the bottle kind of already is one anyway).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Unrelated question: can other people I bring into the vessel also hear outside like I can?
Rules As Written no, as it only says "you" (the Warlock owner of the vessel) can hear outside it, rather than saying "creatures inside the vessel" or similar. Hard to say if that's intentional or an oversight as with other issues involving guests.
I think it makes sense that only the Warlock would be able to sense what's outside though, since they're the one bound to the vessel in much the same way as an actual genie might be.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Responding to the second question. Until level 10 only objects are ejected from the vessel when it's destroyed. The trapped creature could destroy the vessel from the inside but that won't help them escape. You can perform a 1-hour ceremony to receive a replacement vessel, it's not necessarily an identical copy of the destroyed vessel with all the same contents. Before level 10 if you bring a corpse into the vessel, revive them, and destroy the vessel then they won't be anywhere. You specifically leave the vessel early if it's destroyed so you are immune to this.