at least at lower levels, useful is debatable... until the warlock has at least 2 spell slots, for each battle it would have to choose between casting something useful during the battle and saving the spell slot to give the party a rest it may not need yet. Long term I think it would be useful, yes
But also 'flavorwise'; regaining spell slots after a short rest is probably the defining feature of this spellcasting class, and since so many of the warlocks spells are concentration based, which is so readily broken (or the effects tossed off by a good saving throw), the warlock really needs the short rests
Me, I would think the warlock class should have features that allow or help it to take advantage of short rests. I haven't looked too closely at the Hexblade warlock, but I believe, correctly or not, that even it's damage relies more on its curses than its weapon, so it too needs it's spell slots
Short rests can certainly be had without the spell, though not necessarily safely, and that is part of the challenge of the class. But maybe the occasional safe rest would be nice
Just my thoughts. Not having the spell won't make me like my warlock less!
yeah like with the whole mood of warlock being extraplanar pacts, the supernatural and the mysterious, i guess it does kinda make sense for warlocks to get rope trick since it is one of the more absurd arcane spells while also conjuring an portal to an extraplanar space that can be flavoured as anything
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Not familiar with catnap, so can't comment on that.... and a hexblade warlock probably wouldn't pick pact of the tome and therefore couldn't pick the related invocation for the hut... might have feat I could swap out at some level for ritual caster if I wanted the hut, though...
To me it seems at least as appropriate to have an invocation that gives rope trick as one that gives invisibility or levitation... I like both of those examples, not sure just what I would drop if there was a rope trick option... I already have I think three I would have to choose from for that last invocation
at least at lower levels, useful is debatable... until the warlock has at least 2 spell slots, for each battle it would have to choose between casting something useful during the battle and saving the spell slot to give the party a rest it may not need yet. Long term I think it would be useful, yes
But also 'flavorwise'; regaining spell slots after a short rest is probably the defining feature of this spellcasting class, and since so many of the warlocks spells are concentration based, which is so readily broken (or the effects tossed off by a good saving throw), the warlock really needs the short rests
Me, I would think the warlock class should have features that allow or help it to take advantage of short rests. I haven't looked too closely at the Hexblade warlock, but I believe, correctly or not, that even it's damage relies more on its curses than its weapon, so it too needs it's spell slots
Short rests can certainly be had without the spell, though not necessarily safely, and that is part of the challenge of the class. But maybe the occasional safe rest would be nice
Just my thoughts. Not having the spell won't make me like my warlock less!
I wouldn’t necessarily call it safely. As the spell would expire atleast the time it took you to climb into your pocket dimension from after casting the spell, before the full hour of your short rest. You then have a 0-50 foot free fall, “while resting” which probably isn’t restful either...
to me rope trick has always worked best with how most Gloomstalker use it. Poking in and out of their dimension to Gloomstalker dread ambush unsuspecting patrols.
A) a short rest is roughly an hour, not exactly 3600 seconds... any DM that says you can't use that spell and complete a short rest would probably get keel-hauled
B) a short rest is an hour of non-strenuous activity, so it has likely started before the wizard has started to cast the spell, unless it is cast during combat... hell, it probably took the party five minutes to decide whether or not to take a short rest
C) nothing in the rules say you have to use a 50ft length of rope, the pocket dimension forms at the end of whatever rope you use... can you see most mages having the strength to muscle themselves up a 50ft rope? tie knots in a rope every 8 inches to make climbing easier and cut it at 10 or 15 feet... persponally, I envision the spell using the top 4 feet of rope as actually in the pocket space and not ending at the 'door' that you then have to further climb into. So a 10ft foot knotted rope with 4ft into the space puts it only 6ft off th ground... not a huge fall if you lose track of time and don't exit, and even the gnomish wizard can probably get in, especially if anyone at all gave him a boost
A) a short rest is roughly an hour, not exactly 3600 seconds... any DM that says you can't use that spell and complete a short rest would probably get keel-hauled
B) a short rest is an hour of non-strenuous activity, so it has likely started before the wizard has started to cast the spell, unless it is cast during combat... hell, it probably took the party five minutes to decide whether or not to take a short rest
C) nothing in the rules say you have to use a 50ft length of rope, the pocket dimension forms at the end of whatever rope you use... can you see most mages having the strength to muscle themselves up a 50ft rope? tie knots in a rope every 8 inches to make climbing easier and cut it at 10 or 15 feet... persponally, I envision the spell using the top 4 feet of rope as actually in the pocket space and not ending at the 'door' that you then have to further climb into. So a 10ft foot knotted rope with 4ft into the space puts it only 6ft off th ground... not a huge fall if you lose track of time and don't exit, and even the gnomish wizard can probably get in, especially if anyone at all gave him a boost
note however that for the wizard, the short rest would start as soon as he stops casting dimension door, as spellcasting interupts short rests
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I don't see anything in the rules that says that... I do see a long rest would be interrupted by 1 hour of things, including spellcasting, but nothing about a 6 second spell (such as say a detect magic) and a short rest...
casting a spell is not usually all that strenuous... maybe one that requires concentration, or one whose casting time is a bit lengthy... so maybe keeping a comprehend languages up for 10 minutes would interrupt a short rest, but the above detect magic or a lesser restoration to remove poison shouldn't...
it's casting a spell while trying to keep track of all the targets, avoid being a target yourself, and making snap decisions that gets strenuous
Just my current interpretation, subject to change if someone points out a rule I've forgotten or missed, or heaven forbid, a flaw in my logic
I don't see anything in the rules that says that... I do see a long rest would be interrupted by 1 hour of things, including spellcasting, but nothing about a 6 second spell (such as say a detect magic) and a short rest...
casting a spell is not usually all that strenuous... maybe one that requires concentration, or one whose casting time is a bit lengthy... so maybe keeping a comprehend languages up for 10 minutes would interrupt a short rest, but the above detect magic or a lesser restoration to remove poison shouldn't...
it's casting a spell while trying to keep track of all the targets, avoid being a target yourself, and making snap decisions that gets strenuous
Just my current interpretation, subject to change if someone points out a rule I've forgotten or missed, or heaven forbid, a flaw in my logic
i mean it does not matter how small the spell is, plucking strands of magic directly from the weave and shaping them into the desiered spell, or channeling divine magic and shaping it into an certain form will be strenuous, it is going to put a strain on your body and i am pretty shure casting a lot of spells in your life time, even cantrips, might have some negative health effects on you
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Bluebird song ... all of your points are not based on any empirical evidence or raw from PhB or dmg.
It’s true it doesn’t need to be 60 feet tall. (Not the 50 you stated)
but it also doesn’t say the dimension stops short of your rope isn’t long enough.
it says one end rises into the air until the whole end is perpendicular. And then at the top of the upper end of the rope the pocket dimension appears.
theres no raw stating it stops short if the rope isn’t long enough. Or that if it’s not long enough you now have rope perpendicular to the ground X feet above the ground.
this is why it’s “possible” to jump off of a very high cliff. While tied safety to rope like a harness. Holding the top end and tied to the bottom end. And use it to cast rope trick. After jumping off said cliff before you go splat. And just needing to see if you can succeed on some strength saves to hold onto the rope vs taking the recoil damage or fall damage.
As the spell reads... there’s nothin g to distinguish where the dimension occurs except that it is no farther than 60 feet up from your self when casting it.
nothing to say it doesn’t always appear 60 feet straight up since obstacles and such wouldn’t interfere with it since it’s a different dimension.
nothing to say it appears at wherever your rope ends.
that said. Casting spells interrupts short rest. To the other posters retort to the hole in your scenario. This is in the PhB.
”during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.”
“eating, drinking, reading, tending to wounds”
casting spells requires somatic movements, and focusing energy. If this would be allowed. It would state it as:
”nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, using your Ki, focusing your arcane energy, and tending to wounds”
Many spells have a 60 ft range, but that does not mean you have to be 60 ft away... just at most 60 ft away... when you buy a rope, it is 50ft long, which is why I picked that number... but as the spell is written the pocket space forms at the end of the length of rope "up to 60 ft long" used as the material component of the spell..
The spell does specify the entrance forms at the end of the rope, so my theory of going a bit further to make getting in easier is shot... I'm picturing a diving bell scenario, and how do you climb in if the rope stops at the bottom of something you can't even see to grab the edge of... maybe it's a vortex and sucks you in once you stick a hand in it
As for what the short rest says... it does not mention things like sharpening a sword, mending your armor, or darning your socks... but those are all things that generally are not considered strenuous, and some find the mundane tasks soothing... but since they are not listed, do you exclude those too?
This has gotten way off topic. If anyone cares enough to split this off to another thread to continue, by all means have at it... I just wanted to toss the idea of letting warlocks have what I think would be a useful spell!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Even better as an Invocation... maybe only once per long rest, or even half the charisma modifier
But even using a spell slot, since said slot regenerates on the short rest, it's a 'free' safe place for the party to have a short rest
do you think warlocks should have it becuase it makes sense flavour wise or becuase it is useful?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Ask the wizard in your party ..
playing since 1986
at least at lower levels, useful is debatable... until the warlock has at least 2 spell slots, for each battle it would have to choose between casting something useful during the battle and saving the spell slot to give the party a rest it may not need yet. Long term I think it would be useful, yes
But also 'flavorwise'; regaining spell slots after a short rest is probably the defining feature of this spellcasting class, and since so many of the warlocks spells are concentration based, which is so readily broken (or the effects tossed off by a good saving throw), the warlock really needs the short rests
Me, I would think the warlock class should have features that allow or help it to take advantage of short rests. I haven't looked too closely at the Hexblade warlock, but I believe, correctly or not, that even it's damage relies more on its curses than its weapon, so it too needs it's spell slots
Short rests can certainly be had without the spell, though not necessarily safely, and that is part of the challenge of the class. But maybe the occasional safe rest would be nice
Just my thoughts. Not having the spell won't make me like my warlock less!
yeah like with the whole mood of warlock being extraplanar pacts, the supernatural and the mysterious, i guess it does kinda make sense for warlocks to get rope trick since it is one of the more absurd arcane spells while also conjuring an portal to an extraplanar space that can be flavoured as anything
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
also by your logic catnap is also an nessesary warlock spell
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Pact of the tome can scribe Leomund's Tiny Hut as a ritual spell in the Book of Shadows.
Not familiar with catnap, so can't comment on that.... and a hexblade warlock probably wouldn't pick pact of the tome and therefore couldn't pick the related invocation for the hut... might have feat I could swap out at some level for ritual caster if I wanted the hut, though...
To me it seems at least as appropriate to have an invocation that gives rope trick as one that gives invisibility or levitation... I like both of those examples, not sure just what I would drop if there was a rope trick option... I already have I think three I would have to choose from for that last invocation
I wouldn’t necessarily call it safely. As the spell would expire atleast the time it took you to climb into your pocket dimension from after casting the spell, before the full hour of your short rest. You then have a 0-50 foot free fall, “while resting” which probably isn’t restful either...
to me rope trick has always worked best with how most Gloomstalker use it. Poking in and out of their dimension to Gloomstalker dread ambush unsuspecting patrols.
Blank
A) a short rest is roughly an hour, not exactly 3600 seconds... any DM that says you can't use that spell and complete a short rest would probably get keel-hauled
B) a short rest is an hour of non-strenuous activity, so it has likely started before the wizard has started to cast the spell, unless it is cast during combat... hell, it probably took the party five minutes to decide whether or not to take a short rest
C) nothing in the rules say you have to use a 50ft length of rope, the pocket dimension forms at the end of whatever rope you use... can you see most mages having the strength to muscle themselves up a 50ft rope? tie knots in a rope every 8 inches to make climbing easier and cut it at 10 or 15 feet... persponally, I envision the spell using the top 4 feet of rope as actually in the pocket space and not ending at the 'door' that you then have to further climb into. So a 10ft foot knotted rope with 4ft into the space puts it only 6ft off th ground... not a huge fall if you lose track of time and don't exit, and even the gnomish wizard can probably get in, especially if anyone at all gave him a boost
note however that for the wizard, the short rest would start as soon as he stops casting dimension door, as spellcasting interupts short rests
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I don't see anything in the rules that says that... I do see a long rest would be interrupted by 1 hour of things, including spellcasting, but nothing about a 6 second spell (such as say a detect magic) and a short rest...
casting a spell is not usually all that strenuous... maybe one that requires concentration, or one whose casting time is a bit lengthy... so maybe keeping a comprehend languages up for 10 minutes would interrupt a short rest, but the above detect magic or a lesser restoration to remove poison shouldn't...
it's casting a spell while trying to keep track of all the targets, avoid being a target yourself, and making snap decisions that gets strenuous
Just my current interpretation, subject to change if someone points out a rule I've forgotten or missed, or heaven forbid, a flaw in my logic
i mean it does not matter how small the spell is, plucking strands of magic directly from the weave and shaping them into the desiered spell, or channeling divine magic and shaping it into an certain form will be strenuous, it is going to put a strain on your body and i am pretty shure casting a lot of spells in your life time, even cantrips, might have some negative health effects on you
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Bluebird song ... all of your points are not based on any empirical evidence or raw from PhB or dmg.
It’s true it doesn’t need to be 60 feet tall. (Not the 50 you stated)
but it also doesn’t say the dimension stops short of your rope isn’t long enough.
it says one end rises into the air until the whole end is perpendicular. And then at the top of the upper end of the rope the pocket dimension appears.
theres no raw stating it stops short if the rope isn’t long enough. Or that if it’s not long enough you now have rope perpendicular to the ground X feet above the ground.
this is why it’s “possible” to jump off of a very high cliff. While tied safety to rope like a harness. Holding the top end and tied to the bottom end. And use it to cast rope trick. After jumping off said cliff before you go splat. And just needing to see if you can succeed on some strength saves to hold onto the rope vs taking the recoil damage or fall damage.
As the spell reads... there’s nothin g to distinguish where the dimension occurs except that it is no farther than 60 feet up from your self when casting it.
nothing to say it doesn’t always appear 60 feet straight up since obstacles and such wouldn’t interfere with it since it’s a different dimension.
nothing to say it appears at wherever your rope ends.
that said. Casting spells interrupts short rest. To the other posters retort to the hole in your scenario. This is in the PhB.
”during which a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.”
“eating, drinking, reading, tending to wounds”
casting spells requires somatic movements, and focusing energy. If this would be allowed. It would state it as:
”nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, using your Ki, focusing your arcane energy, and tending to wounds”
but alas. It does not.
Blank
Many spells have a 60 ft range, but that does not mean you have to be 60 ft away... just at most 60 ft away... when you buy a rope, it is 50ft long, which is why I picked that number... but as the spell is written the pocket space forms at the end of the length of rope "up to 60 ft long" used as the material component of the spell..
The spell does specify the entrance forms at the end of the rope, so my theory of going a bit further to make getting in easier is shot... I'm picturing a diving bell scenario, and how do you climb in if the rope stops at the bottom of something you can't even see to grab the edge of... maybe it's a vortex and sucks you in once you stick a hand in it
As for what the short rest says... it does not mention things like sharpening a sword, mending your armor, or darning your socks... but those are all things that generally are not considered strenuous, and some find the mundane tasks soothing... but since they are not listed, do you exclude those too?
This has gotten way off topic. If anyone cares enough to split this off to another thread to continue, by all means have at it... I just wanted to toss the idea of letting warlocks have what I think would be a useful spell!