I have always found Warlocks (except of course Hexblades) pretty vulnerable in AC. A Warlock might start with a Dex of 16, but 14 is more likely, and given the focus on getting CHA up, Dex is likely staying a moderate levels for some time. Even with the Mage Armour Invocation, AC is around 15 for a long time.
To that end, I am considering introducing this Invocation available at 1st level into my game. I don't have a name for it, but it would allow the Warlock to Invoke the Shield spell, without burning spell slot, for a max of their CHA bonus, per long rest. So in essence, with a CHA of 16, 3 times per long rest Shield could be used, 5 times with a CHA of 20.
Would this break from any themes in the game (Hexblade's can get this spell), or is it over-powered?
I don't think it's OP given that the mount of uses scales with the warlock's charisma BUT, multiclassintg will turn this in something bit too powerful especially if it's a charisma caster, heck even once per LR seems too good to miss out imo but i am no min maxer so probably others will give more insight into this,
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
I don't think it's OP given that the mount of uses scales with the warlock's charisma BUT, multiclassintg will turn this in something bit too powerful especially if it's a charisma caster, heck even once per LR seems too good to miss out imo but i am no min maxer so probably others will give more insight into this,
Hmmm...point taken about multi-classing. That can be mitigated by making it not available until 3rd level in Warlock would make it unavailable to those that take the standard 2 level dip in Warlock.
There's already a UA invocation that allows the Warlock to wear heavy armor, why not just use this if you want better AC than Mage Armor?
UA may not be allowed. I personally don't allow that particular Invocation.
Allowing homebrew but not UA would be pretty weird though. Also why don't you allow that particular invocation? It's honestly worse than just multiclassing.
A couple things about that UA Invocation:
1. It is only usable by Pact of the Blade Warlocks, and the vast majority of Pact of the Blade Warlocks are Hexblades, who would not even need this Invocation.
2. Being Proficient with any set of Heavy Armour would not negate the speed penalty due to lack of strength to move in that armour, and I have seen very very few Warlock setups that have a high STR, High CHR combo.
A non-Hexblade Warlock is most likely going to be a ranged caster like a sorcerer or a Warlock (Just with Eldritch Blast, rather than a suite of spells). Squishiness is par for the course. Allowing a bump in AC wouldn't be too OP for those types of characters, since they should be avoiding melee anyway, but also wouldn't be particularly inline with their archetype, or necessarily better than the existing options.
Tomb of Levistus kind fills that "oh shit" role.
Fiendish Vigor grants an extra level of rechargeable temp hp, which simply lets Warlocks take hits like a champ. (at lower levels)
Devil's Sight lets Warlocks exploit Darkness to gain the benefit of Unseen Attacker for 10 minutes. (Always valuable)
Shroud of Shadows grants Invisibility at-will.
Warlocks already have a lot of great defensive options. If a non-Hexblade Warlock needs to cast shield regularly, they're probably doing something they shouldn't.
There's already a UA invocation that allows the Warlock to wear heavy armor, why not just use this if you want better AC than Mage Armor?
UA may not be allowed. I personally don't allow that particular Invocation.
Allowing homebrew but not UA would be pretty weird though. Also why don't you allow that particular invocation? It's honestly worse than just multiclassing.
A couple things about that UA Invocation:
1. It is only usable by Pact of the Blade Warlocks, and the vast majority of Pact of the Blade Warlocks are Hexblades, who would not even need this Invocation.
2. Being Proficient with any set of Heavy Armour would not negate the speed penalty due to lack of strength to move in that armour, and I have seen very very few Warlock setups that have a high STR, High CHR combo.
1. Yeah it's obviously so pact of the blade warlocks can survive in melee better, so what? The fact that the majority are using the hexblade patron is completely irrelevant. There are plenty people who don't want to use that patron but still want to use pact of the blade without having to rely on light armor only.
2. You haven't seen them because without heavy armour proficiency there was no point in going for a STR build obviously. Also if you go for a melee build with pact of the blade you don't really need to have your CHA that high. It's pretty much your second or third priority after STR/DEX and CON.
I get that the OP didn't explicitly restrict his request to a melee build, but honestly if he finds Warlocks in general to be too squishy then I gotta ask what Sorcerers and Wizards are supposed to say. They don't even have light armor and their HP die is even smaller. A Warlock that isn't using Pact of the Blade isn't supposed to be standing in the first row and requires the rest of the party to keep some of the dangerous enemies away from them like any other full caster. Mage Armor and utility spells should be enough for a backline character.
Wizards and Sorcerers have access to the Shield spell. As I said in my first post, Warlocks, except for Hexblades, do not. So this would balance out that issue. I also have zero clue what you are talking about with regard to CHA being 2nd or 3rd priority, given that CHA is the spell casting ability. If you are not casting spells as a Warlock, then play a fighter.
There's already a UA invocation that allows the Warlock to wear heavy armor, why not just use this if you want better AC than Mage Armor?
UA may not be allowed. I personally don't allow that particular Invocation.
Allowing homebrew but not UA would be pretty weird though. Also why don't you allow that particular invocation? It's honestly worse than just multiclassing.
A couple things about that UA Invocation:
1. It is only usable by Pact of the Blade Warlocks, and the vast majority of Pact of the Blade Warlocks are Hexblades, who would not even need this Invocation.
2. Being Proficient with any set of Heavy Armour would not negate the speed penalty due to lack of strength to move in that armour, and I have seen very very few Warlock setups that have a high STR, High CHR combo.
1. Yeah it's obviously so pact of the blade warlocks can survive in melee better, so what? The fact that the majority are using the hexblade patron is completely irrelevant. There are plenty people who don't want to use that patron but still want to use pact of the blade without having to rely on light armor only.
2. You haven't seen them because without heavy armour proficiency there was no point in going for a STR build obviously. Also if you go for a melee build with pact of the blade you don't really need to have your CHA that high. It's pretty much your second or third priority after STR/DEX and CON.
I get that the OP didn't explicitly restrict his request to a melee build, but honestly if he finds Warlocks in general to be too squishy then I gotta ask what Sorcerers and Wizards are supposed to say. They don't even have light armor and their HP die is even smaller. A Warlock that isn't using Pact of the Blade isn't supposed to be standing in the first row and requires the rest of the party to keep some of the dangerous enemies away from them like any other full caster. Mage Armor and utility spells should be enough for a backline character.
Wizards and Sorcerers have access to the Shield spell. As I said in my first post, Warlocks, except for Hexblades, do not. So this would balance out that issue. I also have zero clue what you are talking about with regard to CHA being 2nd or 3rd priority, given that CHA is the spell casting ability. If you are not casting spells as a Warlock, then play a fighter.
Wizards and Sorcerers also have a smaller hit dice, a different set of spells, can't wear light armor and can't keep running around with Mage Armor active all the time if they want that extra protection because it costs them spell slots while the Warlock can cast it just like that whenever he wants to because of the Invocation. Warlocks have plenty ways to protect themselves (Armor of Agathys, Darkness + Devil's Sight and Fiendish Vigor should get mentioned here for example).
Just because you don't make CHA your priority as Bladelock it doesn't mean you won't be casting spells. There are plenty spells that don't require high CHA to work just fine. If you don't even know that it's plenty clear that you never really looked closely at your spell list or never played a gish character. The only reason Hexblade characters focus on CHA that much is because Hexblade is somewhat broken in multiple ways, one of those being able to use CHA for their weapon attacks. If your aim is to min-max though ... just play as Hexblade. It's without question the strongest patron even if you play a traditional Eldritch Blast slinging Warlock.
Ummmm..yeah. You keep bringing this around to Hexblades. I keep saying this Invocation is for all Warlocks OTHER than Hexblades, because it is of little value to Hexblades. Yes, Sorcerer's and Wizard's do have smaller hit dice. So what? If you are not getting hit as often, you don't worry as much about HP, and a +5 to AC is one awesome buff. As for the shot about not knowing Warlocks, trust me, I likely know them better than you. But hey, you want to play keyboard warrior, go nuts.
I have always found Warlocks (except of course Hexblades) pretty vulnerable in AC. A Warlock might start with a Dex of 16, but 14 is more likely, and given the focus on getting CHA up, Dex is likely staying a moderate levels for some time. Even with the Mage Armour Invocation, AC is around 15 for a long time.
To that end, I am considering introducing this Invocation available at 1st level into my game. I don't have a name for it, but it would allow the Warlock to Invoke the Shield spell, without burning spell slot, for a max of their CHA bonus, per long rest. So in essence, with a CHA of 16, 3 times per long rest Shield could be used, 5 times with a CHA of 20.
Would this break from any themes in the game (Hexblade's can get this spell), or is it over-powered?
No it won't break your game, yes it is over-powered.
If you are going to home-brew and want the shield spell so bad just swap one of your subclasses "Expanded Spells List" first level spells for shield. Its a much simpler option than creating your own invocation.
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I have always found Warlocks (except of course Hexblades) pretty vulnerable in AC. A Warlock might start with a Dex of 16, but 14 is more likely, and given the focus on getting CHA up, Dex is likely staying a moderate levels for some time. Even with the Mage Armour Invocation, AC is around 15 for a long time.
To that end, I am considering introducing this Invocation available at 1st level into my game. I don't have a name for it, but it would allow the Warlock to Invoke the Shield spell, without burning spell slot, for a max of their CHA bonus, per long rest. So in essence, with a CHA of 16, 3 times per long rest Shield could be used, 5 times with a CHA of 20.
Would this break from any themes in the game (Hexblade's can get this spell), or is it over-powered?
No it won't break your game, yes it is over-powered.
If you are going to home-brew and want the shield spell so bad just swap one of your subclasses "Expanded Spells List" first level spells for shield. Its a much simpler option than creating your own invocation.
How is it overpowered? They're giving up an invocation for it. Do you realize what else can be done with those?
The functional consideration is that this version of the homebrew Invocation would essentially give the Warlock 3-5 bonus 1st level spell slots.
Invocation Comparison:
Armor of Shadowsfunctionally only gives 1 bonus slot, since Mage Armor has an 8 hour (non-concentration) duration. It can be cast more often, but realistically won't be.
Beast Speech, Eldritch Sight, Eyes of the Rune Keeper basically give the Warlock access to a slightly better version of a single Ritual spell.
Fiendish Vigor and Mask of Many Faces are the more pure at-will 1st level invocation, but similarly, once that's cast, the former's effect sits around all day until you use it. Since it requires an action, it can be used during combat, but usually isn't recast until out of combat. The latter is more of a social ability, which isn't so heavily balanced.
A Shield Invocation from a pure combat resource perspective is at risk of being substantially more generous, and as a reaction, has considerably more in-combat value. It stacks with other armor, and someone who would be inclined to choose it is likely to use it nearly every combat.
5 uses of Shield would effectively give the Warlock +5 AC for either all of one combat, or for one round of 5 combats, which is enough for an entire day. This realistically makes it considerably more powerful than the Armor of Shadows invocation, unless the party is slow rolling through combats all day and burns through the Shield effects.
At 3 uses per day, it's still pretty potent, but not too bad. Basically, you'll be able to take your "oh shit" moment, dodge a few hits and go hide as needed. It won't be a primary means of defense.
The thing that makes an at-will Shield invocation powerful is that it's keyed off of a reaction spell. Even if its uses are capped, it can still be spammed exactly when needed. Against a BBEG, 3-5 rounds of +5 AC almost always covers the entire combat. (Especially for a non-tank)
As a 1/Short Rest ability, it would still provide the utility that it is meant to provide, without being abuseable.
Weirding Ward You can cast Shield once without expending a spell slot. You can't do so again until you finish a short rest.
Separately, I really like the monster Recharge mechanic for breath weapons, so I think it would be fun to explore Warlock invocations that grant abilities like this on a d6 recharge. You'll always have it going into a new encounter, but you can't build a strategy around it being available more than once per combat.
The functional consideration is that this version of the homebrew Invocation would essentially give the Warlock 3-5 bonus 1st level spell slots.
Invocation Comparison:
Armor of Shadowsfunctionally only gives 1 bonus slot, since [Spell]Mage Armor[Spell] has an 8 hour (non-concentration) duration. It can be cast more often, but realistically won't be.
Beast Speech, Eldritch Sight, Eyes of the Rune Keeper basically give the Warlock access to a slightly better version of a single Ritual spell.
Fiendish Vigor and Mask of Many Faces are the more pure at-will 1st level invocation, but similarly, once that's cast, the former's effect sits around all day until you use it. Since it requires an action, it can be used during combat, but usually isn't recast until out of combat. The latter is more of a social ability, which isn't so heavily balanced.
A Shield Invocation from a pure combat resource perspective is at risk of being substantially more generous, and as a reaction, has considerably more in-combat value. It stacks with other armor, and someone who would be inclined to choose it is likely to use it nearly every combat.
5 uses of Shield would effectively give the Warlock +5 AC for either all of one combat, or for one round of 5 combats, which is enough for an entire day. This realistically makes it considerably more powerful than the Armor of Shadows invocation, unless the party is slow rolling through combats all day and burns through the Shield effects.
At 3 uses per day, it's still pretty potent, but not too bad. Basically, you'll be able to take your "oh shit" moment, dodge a few hits and go hide as needed. It won't be a primary means of defense.
The thing that makes an at-will Shield invocation powerful is that it's keyed off of a reaction spell. Even if its uses are capped, it can still be spammed exactly when needed. Against a BBEG, 3-5 rounds of +5 AC almost always covers the entire combat. (Especially for a non-tank)
As a 1/Short Rest ability, it would still provide the utility that it is meant to provide, without being abuseable.
Weirding Ward You can cast Shield once without expending a spell slot. You can't do so again until you finish a short rest.
Separately, I really like the monster Recharge mechanic for breath weapons, so I think it would be fun to explore Warlock invocations that grant abilities like this on a d6 recharge. You'll always have it going into a new encounter, but you can't build a strategy around it being available more than once per combat.
A very good analysis. I am convinced. Tying it to a short rest does seem reasonable, as most parties only 2-3 of those per day. Or, base it on the spell slot level the Warlock is capable of casting spells at, divide by 2, and round up. It would then cap at 3 uses per day.
There's already a UA invocation that allows the Warlock to wear heavy armor, why not just use this if you want better AC than Mage Armor?
UA may not be allowed. I personally don't allow that particular Invocation.
Allowing homebrew but not UA would be pretty weird though. Also why don't you allow that particular invocation? It's honestly worse than just multiclassing.
multiclassing can never give you heavy armor, only medium and light armor, so you would have to start as a fighter or paladin and then later pick up warlock, something that is not ideal for most characters
also unearthed arcana is playtest material, and is often deliberately pushing the boundraries of what has already been done with the game, while homebrew can be a bit unstable, it is at least something you made and can be tailored to your own game
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
There's already a UA invocation that allows the Warlock to wear heavy armor, why not just use this if you want better AC than Mage Armor?
UA may not be allowed. I personally don't allow that particular Invocation.
Allowing homebrew but not UA would be pretty weird though. Also why don't you allow that particular invocation? It's honestly worse than just multiclassing.
multiclassing can never give you heavy armor, only medium and light armor, so you would have to start as a fighter or paladin and then later pick up warlock, something that is not ideal for most characters
also unearthed arcana is playtest material, and is often deliberately pushing the boundraries of what has already been done with the game, while homebrew can be a bit unstable, it is at least something you made and can be tailored to your own game
From what I have read, the UA Feat you are talking about did not make the cut. We will know for sure in 3 weeks. As for if I allow UA at my table, while taking about Homebrew, no, I don't allow my players to access UA. The reason is for the simple fact that I think a lot of the UA is stuff is OP. That is borne out by what is cut, as we shall see in Tasha's.
It may seem to be counter-intuitive, but look at this particular Invocation. It has created discussion, and I am weakening this Invocation based on that. At some point. I will talk to my players about this Invocation, and explain it is now available.It is most like;y that my players will encounter Homebrew stuff in my NPC's, long before it is available to the player.
I have always found Warlocks (except of course Hexblades) pretty vulnerable in AC. A Warlock might start with a Dex of 16, but 14 is more likely, and given the focus on getting CHA up, Dex is likely staying a moderate levels for some time. Even with the Mage Armour Invocation, AC is around 15 for a long time.
To that end, I am considering introducing this Invocation available at 1st level into my game. I don't have a name for it, but it would allow the Warlock to Invoke the Shield spell, without burning spell slot, for a max of their CHA bonus, per long rest. So in essence, with a CHA of 16, 3 times per long rest Shield could be used, 5 times with a CHA of 20.
Would this break from any themes in the game (Hexblade's can get this spell), or is it over-powered?
I don't think it's OP given that the mount of uses scales with the warlock's charisma BUT, multiclassintg will turn this in something bit too powerful especially if it's a charisma caster, heck even once per LR seems too good to miss out imo but i am no min maxer so probably others will give more insight into this,
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
Hmmm...point taken about multi-classing. That can be mitigated by making it not available until 3rd level in Warlock would make it unavailable to those that take the standard 2 level dip in Warlock.
UA may not be allowed. I personally don't allow that particular Invocation.
A couple things about that UA Invocation:
1. It is only usable by Pact of the Blade Warlocks, and the vast majority of Pact of the Blade Warlocks are Hexblades, who would not even need this Invocation.
2. Being Proficient with any set of Heavy Armour would not negate the speed penalty due to lack of strength to move in that armour, and I have seen very very few Warlock setups that have a high STR, High CHR combo.
A non-Hexblade Warlock is most likely going to be a ranged caster like a sorcerer or a Warlock (Just with Eldritch Blast, rather than a suite of spells). Squishiness is par for the course. Allowing a bump in AC wouldn't be too OP for those types of characters, since they should be avoiding melee anyway, but also wouldn't be particularly inline with their archetype, or necessarily better than the existing options.
Tomb of Levistus kind fills that "oh shit" role.
Fiendish Vigor grants an extra level of rechargeable temp hp, which simply lets Warlocks take hits like a champ. (at lower levels)
Devil's Sight lets Warlocks exploit Darkness to gain the benefit of Unseen Attacker for 10 minutes. (Always valuable)
Shroud of Shadows grants Invisibility at-will.
Warlocks already have a lot of great defensive options. If a non-Hexblade Warlock needs to cast shield regularly, they're probably doing something they shouldn't.
Wizards and Sorcerers have access to the Shield spell. As I said in my first post, Warlocks, except for Hexblades, do not. So this would balance out that issue. I also have zero clue what you are talking about with regard to CHA being 2nd or 3rd priority, given that CHA is the spell casting ability. If you are not casting spells as a Warlock, then play a fighter.
Ummmm..yeah. You keep bringing this around to Hexblades. I keep saying this Invocation is for all Warlocks OTHER than Hexblades, because it is of little value to Hexblades. Yes, Sorcerer's and Wizard's do have smaller hit dice. So what? If you are not getting hit as often, you don't worry as much about HP, and a +5 to AC is one awesome buff. As for the shot about not knowing Warlocks, trust me, I likely know them better than you. But hey, you want to play keyboard warrior, go nuts.
No it won't break your game, yes it is over-powered.
If you are going to home-brew and want the shield spell so bad just swap one of your subclasses "Expanded Spells List" first level spells for shield. Its a much simpler option than creating your own invocation.
Check out my Disabled & Dragons Youtube Channel for 5e Monster and Player Tactics. Helping the Disabled Community and Players and DM’s (both new and experienced) get into D&D. Plus there is a talking Dragon named Quill.
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How is it overpowered? They're giving up an invocation for it. Do you realize what else can be done with those?
The functional consideration is that this version of the homebrew Invocation would essentially give the Warlock 3-5 bonus 1st level spell slots.
Invocation Comparison:
Armor of Shadows functionally only gives 1 bonus slot, since Mage Armor has an 8 hour (non-concentration) duration. It can be cast more often, but realistically won't be.
Beast Speech, Eldritch Sight, Eyes of the Rune Keeper basically give the Warlock access to a slightly better version of a single Ritual spell.
Fiendish Vigor and Mask of Many Faces are the more pure at-will 1st level invocation, but similarly, once that's cast, the former's effect sits around all day until you use it. Since it requires an action, it can be used during combat, but usually isn't recast until out of combat. The latter is more of a social ability, which isn't so heavily balanced.
A Shield Invocation from a pure combat resource perspective is at risk of being substantially more generous, and as a reaction, has considerably more in-combat value. It stacks with other armor, and someone who would be inclined to choose it is likely to use it nearly every combat.
5 uses of Shield would effectively give the Warlock +5 AC for either all of one combat, or for one round of 5 combats, which is enough for an entire day. This realistically makes it considerably more powerful than the Armor of Shadows invocation, unless the party is slow rolling through combats all day and burns through the Shield effects.
At 3 uses per day, it's still pretty potent, but not too bad. Basically, you'll be able to take your "oh shit" moment, dodge a few hits and go hide as needed. It won't be a primary means of defense.
The thing that makes an at-will Shield invocation powerful is that it's keyed off of a reaction spell. Even if its uses are capped, it can still be spammed exactly when needed. Against a BBEG, 3-5 rounds of +5 AC almost always covers the entire combat. (Especially for a non-tank)
As a 1/Short Rest ability, it would still provide the utility that it is meant to provide, without being abuseable.
Separately, I really like the monster Recharge mechanic for breath weapons, so I think it would be fun to explore Warlock invocations that grant abilities like this on a d6 recharge. You'll always have it going into a new encounter, but you can't build a strategy around it being available more than once per combat.
A very good analysis. I am convinced. Tying it to a short rest does seem reasonable, as most parties only 2-3 of those per day. Or, base it on the spell slot level the Warlock is capable of casting spells at, divide by 2, and round up. It would then cap at 3 uses per day.
multiclassing can never give you heavy armor, only medium and light armor, so you would have to start as a fighter or paladin and then later pick up warlock, something that is not ideal for most characters
also unearthed arcana is playtest material, and is often deliberately pushing the boundraries of what has already been done with the game, while homebrew can be a bit unstable, it is at least something you made and can be tailored to your own game
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
From what I have read, the UA Feat you are talking about did not make the cut. We will know for sure in 3 weeks. As for if I allow UA at my table, while taking about Homebrew, no, I don't allow my players to access UA. The reason is for the simple fact that I think a lot of the UA is stuff is OP. That is borne out by what is cut, as we shall see in Tasha's.
It may seem to be counter-intuitive, but look at this particular Invocation. It has created discussion, and I am weakening this Invocation based on that. At some point. I will talk to my players about this Invocation, and explain it is now available.It is most like;y that my players will encounter Homebrew stuff in my NPC's, long before it is available to the player.