out of the rest variants provided in the dungeon master's guide that changes the duration that short and long rests take, is there any that you feel gives the warlock more power than the rest, considering how they rely more on short rests than long rests to regain use of most their features? (in gritty realisim every short rest takes 8 hours and every long rest takes 7 days, in epic heroisim every short rest takes 5 minutes and every long rest takes 1 hour)
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Epic Heroism is ridiculous and largely unsuited for most longer campaigns, but if you're playing it, it boils down to regaining all short rest resources after every encounter. Warlocks will appreciate their party FINALLY letting them take enough rests to make use of their faster-cycling skills.
Gritty Realism, on the other hand, essentially requires the party to make it to a home base and stand down from adventuring entirely for a while to gain a long rest. Short rest-keyed classes like the warlock are at their best in gritty realism, since they regain their resources overnight and can push harder for longer. Gritty Realism usually means long rests are rare and precious rather than the easy norm, so long rest-dependent classes are in a rough place. Especially since hit dice recover slowly even with long rests, and under Gritty Realism hit dice become your primary means of recovery. The Celestial warlock's ability to regain healing spells on short rest becomes extremely valuable, as does any other short-rest healing abilities.
So Gritty Realism probably works 'best' for warlocks. Epic Heroism works better than the standard as well, which is sad. Short-rest classes just get no joy in 5e.
Especially since hit dice recover slowly even with long rests, and under Gritty Realism hit dice become your primary means of recovery. The Celestial warlock's ability to regain healing spells on short rest becomes extremely valuable, as does any other short-rest healing abilities.
and of course in gritty realisim the spell-less ranger from UA would be particularly good as its healing poultices are based arround a unit of time rather than tied to the short rest/ long rest mechanic, although a DM would probably have to specifically allow a character to play it seeing as to how its an old defunct UA article
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Having played gritty realism in two campaigns as a bard and cleric, my opinion is that it sucks. I think it would make a warlock no fun at all. And the Epic heroism would make him too powerful I think. So I would say neither. We use a 1hr as a short rest and 8 hrs as a long...is that the standard default?
On a side note. One of the gritty realism campaigns was a dungeon campaign and leaving the dungeon for a week seemed unrealistic. Wouldn't the dungeon denizens rebuild and reinforce the entrance...that and other issues really broke with "reality". Think of how bad it would be if you are a barbarian and your rage is tied to long rests...3/week at lvl 5...ugh. One issue is that short rests can be abused and I often force the party to keep moving if it is ridiculous to wait an hour to go into a building after killing enemies outside when you know there are more inside. Killing is not quiet.
Yes, one-hour short rests and eight-hour long rests is the standard default. It ensures that almost no one ever takes a short rest unless the entire player group consciously decides in Session Zero to make a short rest-centric party. The warlock, the monk, and to a lesser extent the bard and the fighter will never convince anyone else to bother with spending an hour sitting on their thumbs so short-rest classes designed to burn and recover their resources multiple times a day can, y'know...do that. It is exactly the wrong period of time to be useful. One hour is far too long for a "quick breather" in a hostile environment. It requires fortification and preparation, and many players will rightly argue that if you're fortified and prepared for one hour of rest, you're fortified and prepared for eight. Long rests are far too convenient compared to short for short rests to be anything but an occasional novelty in standard D&D.
On the other point:
"Unrealistic" is taking horrific, grievous injuries in multiple life-or-death clashes, expending the energy of your soul to alter the fabric of reality itself to your whims...and then being in perfect, pristine health again after one single night's decent sleep.
Gritty Realism is meant to be punishing and greatly slow down play. It's not a simple on/off switch one applies to a game - a campaign needs to be designed with Gritty Realism in mind, and many classes will require tweaks to be functional. But, yes - barbarians only get a few rages before having to stand down for a week. Every single spell a caster blows is gone until they rest for a week to regain it. Furthermore, classes that prepare spells or change switchable options "at the end of a long rest" can only do so at the end of that downtime week, and have to predict what they will need for potentially months in advance instead of simply the day. It's an entirely different way of playing D&D, and also the only way of playing D&D where short-rest classes actually get the benefits of being short-rest classes.
Some of you have forgotten Moon Druid for short-rest classes. Wildshape recharges on short rests, after all. Sure, they're still low on spell-slots, but having so much more HP per short rest is huge in Gritty Realism.
Also, some people forget it, but a character can only gain the benefits of a long rest once per 24 hours in normal rules. This means that if you have a big battle in the morning (not very big but enough to cause some injuries and drain some resources), the party will want a short rest almost always. Even parties that gain absolutely nothing on short rests will appreciate the extra healing they no longer need to spend their spell slots or healing potions on.
Yes, one-hour short rests and eight-hour long rests is the standard default. It ensures that almost no one ever takes a short rest unless the entire player group consciously decides in Session Zero to make a short rest-centric party. The warlock, the monk, and to a lesser extent the bard and the fighter will never convince anyone else to bother with spending an hour sitting on their thumbs so short-rest classes designed to burn and recover their resources multiple times a day can, y'know...do that. It is exactly the wrong period of time to be useful. One hour is far too long for a "quick breather" in a hostile environment. It requires fortification and preparation, and many players will rightly argue that if you're fortified and prepared for one hour of rest, you're fortified and prepared for eight. Long rests are far too convenient compared to short for short rests to be anything but an occasional novelty in standard D&D.
On the other point:
"Unrealistic" is taking horrific, grievous injuries in multiple life-or-death clashes, expending the energy of your soul to alter the fabric of reality itself to your whims...and then being in perfect, pristine health again after one single night's decent sleep.
Gritty Realism is meant to be punishing and greatly slow down play. It's not a simple on/off switch one applies to a game - a campaign needs to be designed with Gritty Realism in mind, and many classes will require tweaks to be functional. But, yes - barbarians only get a few rages before having to stand down for a week. Every single spell a caster blows is gone until they rest for a week to regain it. Furthermore, classes that prepare spells or change switchable options "at the end of a long rest" can only do so at the end of that downtime week, and have to predict what they will need for potentially months in advance instead of simply the day. It's an entirely different way of playing D&D, and also the only way of playing D&D where short-rest classes actually get the benefits of being short-rest classes.
All good and valid points. My biggest problem was the campaign. In a large multi layered dungeon, it just seems silly to adventure for a day or two and then leave, travel back to base and rest for a week. I am re-thinking my position and do agree that healing and recovering from that two day battle will take a week. That sounds correct. Just a week away and then travel 2 levels down or camp a week in the wilderness really messes up the flow of the game. In a city campaign (as was mentioned earlier) with a lot of social interaction and short travel, I could see it working better. Standard and gritty both have realistic problems. So for me there is no right answer all the time.
On a side note, Thanks. I am always happy when a well reasoned argument can change my mind!
out of the rest variants provided in the dungeon master's guide that changes the duration that short and long rests take, is there any that you feel gives the warlock more power than the rest, considering how they rely more on short rests than long rests to regain use of most their features? (in gritty realisim every short rest takes 8 hours and every long rest takes 7 days, in epic heroisim every short rest takes 5 minutes and every long rest takes 1 hour)
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Epic Heroism is ridiculous and largely unsuited for most longer campaigns, but if you're playing it, it boils down to regaining all short rest resources after every encounter. Warlocks will appreciate their party FINALLY letting them take enough rests to make use of their faster-cycling skills.
Gritty Realism, on the other hand, essentially requires the party to make it to a home base and stand down from adventuring entirely for a while to gain a long rest. Short rest-keyed classes like the warlock are at their best in gritty realism, since they regain their resources overnight and can push harder for longer. Gritty Realism usually means long rests are rare and precious rather than the easy norm, so long rest-dependent classes are in a rough place. Especially since hit dice recover slowly even with long rests, and under Gritty Realism hit dice become your primary means of recovery. The Celestial warlock's ability to regain healing spells on short rest becomes extremely valuable, as does any other short-rest healing abilities.
So Gritty Realism probably works 'best' for warlocks. Epic Heroism works better than the standard as well, which is sad. Short-rest classes just get no joy in 5e.
Please do not contact or message me.
In other words, any method but the default is better for short rest classes like bard, warlock, monk, and ... fighter?
and of course in gritty realisim the spell-less ranger from UA would be particularly good as its healing poultices are based arround a unit of time rather than tied to the short rest/ long rest mechanic, although a DM would probably have to specifically allow a character to play it seeing as to how its an old defunct UA article
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Having played gritty realism in two campaigns as a bard and cleric, my opinion is that it sucks. I think it would make a warlock no fun at all. And the Epic heroism would make him too powerful I think. So I would say neither. We use a 1hr as a short rest and 8 hrs as a long...is that the standard default?
On a side note. One of the gritty realism campaigns was a dungeon campaign and leaving the dungeon for a week seemed unrealistic. Wouldn't the dungeon denizens rebuild and reinforce the entrance...that and other issues really broke with "reality". Think of how bad it would be if you are a barbarian and your rage is tied to long rests...3/week at lvl 5...ugh. One issue is that short rests can be abused and I often force the party to keep moving if it is ridiculous to wait an hour to go into a building after killing enemies outside when you know there are more inside. Killing is not quiet.
Yes, one-hour short rests and eight-hour long rests is the standard default. It ensures that almost no one ever takes a short rest unless the entire player group consciously decides in Session Zero to make a short rest-centric party. The warlock, the monk, and to a lesser extent the bard and the fighter will never convince anyone else to bother with spending an hour sitting on their thumbs so short-rest classes designed to burn and recover their resources multiple times a day can, y'know...do that. It is exactly the wrong period of time to be useful. One hour is far too long for a "quick breather" in a hostile environment. It requires fortification and preparation, and many players will rightly argue that if you're fortified and prepared for one hour of rest, you're fortified and prepared for eight. Long rests are far too convenient compared to short for short rests to be anything but an occasional novelty in standard D&D.
On the other point:
"Unrealistic" is taking horrific, grievous injuries in multiple life-or-death clashes, expending the energy of your soul to alter the fabric of reality itself to your whims...and then being in perfect, pristine health again after one single night's decent sleep.
Gritty Realism is meant to be punishing and greatly slow down play. It's not a simple on/off switch one applies to a game - a campaign needs to be designed with Gritty Realism in mind, and many classes will require tweaks to be functional. But, yes - barbarians only get a few rages before having to stand down for a week. Every single spell a caster blows is gone until they rest for a week to regain it. Furthermore, classes that prepare spells or change switchable options "at the end of a long rest" can only do so at the end of that downtime week, and have to predict what they will need for potentially months in advance instead of simply the day. It's an entirely different way of playing D&D, and also the only way of playing D&D where short-rest classes actually get the benefits of being short-rest classes.
Please do not contact or message me.
Some of you have forgotten Moon Druid for short-rest classes. Wildshape recharges on short rests, after all. Sure, they're still low on spell-slots, but having so much more HP per short rest is huge in Gritty Realism.
Also, some people forget it, but a character can only gain the benefits of a long rest once per 24 hours in normal rules. This means that if you have a big battle in the morning (not very big but enough to cause some injuries and drain some resources), the party will want a short rest almost always. Even parties that gain absolutely nothing on short rests will appreciate the extra healing they no longer need to spend their spell slots or healing potions on.
Varielky
All good and valid points. My biggest problem was the campaign. In a large multi layered dungeon, it just seems silly to adventure for a day or two and then leave, travel back to base and rest for a week. I am re-thinking my position and do agree that healing and recovering from that two day battle will take a week. That sounds correct. Just a week away and then travel 2 levels down or camp a week in the wilderness really messes up the flow of the game. In a city campaign (as was mentioned earlier) with a lot of social interaction and short travel, I could see it working better. Standard and gritty both have realistic problems. So for me there is no right answer all the time.
On a side note, Thanks. I am always happy when a well reasoned argument can change my mind!