In a low level campaign (level 2, going through level 15) was lucky enough to roll a pretty great starting build (9 STR/ 16 DEX/ 16 CON/ 17 INT/ 13 WIS/ 11 CHA) BEFORE applying racial bonuses. I am currently a Divination Wizard, but to be honest am finding it a bit boring. Sure Portent is awesome, but Divination spells kind of suck. Expert Divination feels like it only exists to incentivize people to use Divination spells, otherwise, they wouldn't be used.
So that got me thinking. Since I rolled well enough to handle a pretty decent MAD build, is it worth trying Bladesinger? Our party is pretty range-heavy at the moment. My DM is letting me retcon my build, so wanted to ask what this distinguished group feels is the best option and build, as well as thoughts on early level play:
Proficiency: Rapier Starting Feat: Mobile, ASI (4): +2 INT to 20, ASI (8): Warcaster, ASI (12): Lucky (Crit defense) My plan is for this build to swoop in and out of combat, avoiding hits, and opportunity attacks and using spells like Expeditious Retreat to get the hell out of dodge after a melee attack.
Proficiency: Rapier, Shortsword, Hand Crossbow, Scimitar ASI (4): Mobile, ASI (8): Warcaster, ASI (12): +2 Int to 20 Similar plan as Variant Human, but in this case, I could also have flexibility after level 6 to use hand crossbow/cantrip extra attack for flavor as well as melee, or even Dual Wielding. Sort of a weapons master RP build. Also Darkvision to aid in Shadowblade advantage
Proficiency: Rapier ASI (4): Mobile, ASI (8): Res (Con) Con to 18, ASI (12): +2 Int to 20 Beefier version of Variant Human with the added Con. And same Darkvision to aid in Shadowblade advantage. But similarly weaker Int until later game as High Elf.
4) Stick to Divination Wizard
Keep it simple stupid, and give Div. Wizard more of a chance!
I appreciate the help here. I find that I am completely overanalyzing this thing!
If you go Bladesinger I would suggest Half Elf with the Ability Scores of STR 9 DEX 17 (16+1) CON 16 INT 19 (17+2) WIS 14 (13+1) CHA 11. I would go Elf Weapon Training to get longbow proficiency as well. In terms of ASI I would at level get +1 DEX and +1 INT to round both scores up. At level 8 I'll grab Warcaster and level 12 will be +2 DEX.
You actually don't need CON saving throws because Bladesong already does that, while Mobile is nice Warcaster I feel is slightly better since Bladesong already gives you extra movement and your massive AC will be sufficient to keep you safe in melee. Warcaster lets you fight with 2 weapons while still being able to use defensive spells like Shield or Absorb Elements.
Speaking of combat I would use a shortsword or a scimitar over the rapier as this opens up two weapon fighting for you. Basically in combat I would most likely activate Bladesong in the 1st round and use a powerful opening spell to damage or disrupt the enemy, maybe something like Fireball or Hypnotic Pattern. 2nd round I should be in melee range I would cast Shadow Blade then draw your shortsword/scimitar if you didn't do it the prior turn and proceed to attack with Shadow Blade followed by a Booming Blade with your shortsword/scimitar. Subsequent turns you can throw in an extra bonus attack with your shortsword/scimitar for a bit of extra sauce. Alternatively you can also sit back and fire your longbow and throw in a Toll the Dead or Firebolt after it if you cannot reach the enemy.
Final thoughts, if you really want CON saving throws as well you could multiclass and start as a Fighter at level 1. This allows you to pick up the Two Weapon Fighting Style as well but comes at the cost of delaying Wizard progression by 1 level.
I am curious why you went with DEX 17 (+3) and INT 19 (+4) to start with vs. DEX 18 (+4) and INT 18 (+4)? I understand going ASI at level 4, but if I did that with my spread, we would still net out the same at level 4 (DEX 18 + INT 20), while my spread would benefit from the +1 to AC for the levels leading up to level 4.
My rationale for Mobile over Warcaster was somewhat for the reason you stated - I don't necessarily need CON savings throws. So Warcaster would only be getting me the ability to fight two handed. But wouldn't Shadowblade prior to level 6, and Rapier + BB after level 6 come out pretty close if not higher than a Scimitar or Short Sword dual wield build?
Plus, wouldn't a dual wield build still mess with my Material spells even with Warcaster? In other words, I have two Scimitars - Round 1: Attack - BB - Off hand Attack (lovely). But say Round 2 I want to cast Fireball, I don't think I am able to put away my Scimitar AND pull out my Arcane Focus in the same action, correct? A single blade configuration renders that problem mute.
I selected Mobile, not so much for the extended foot speed, but for the Attack of Opportunity avoidance. Would allow me to run in, hit, and run out each round without ever having to even stick around to see if I get hit in the first place. Add Expeditious Retreat to the mix, and my round goes something like this:
1) Run in from 50ft away 2) Rapier Attack + BB 3) Bonus Action Dash 50ft away (outside the range of anyone reaching me without dashing themselves), while avoiding the Attack of Opportunity. 4) Lather. Rinse. Repeat (with an occasional Fireball thrown in for good measure).
That feels to me like a better survival maneuver than run in and hope that my concentration holds with advantage (Warcaster). But I admit I may be missing something.
I am curious why you went with DEX 17 (+3) and INT 19 (+4) to start with vs. DEX 18 (+4) and INT 18 (+4)? I understand going ASI at level 4, but if I did that with my spread, we would still net out the same at level 4 (DEX 18 + INT 20), while my spread would benefit from the +1 to AC for the levels leading up to level 4.
My rationale for Mobile over Warcaster was somewhat for the reason you stated - I don't necessarily need CON savings throws. So Warcaster would only be getting me the ability to fight two handed. But wouldn't Shadowblade prior to level 6, and Rapier + BB after level 6 come out pretty close if not higher than a Scimitar or Short Sword dual wield build?
Plus, wouldn't a dual wield build still mess with my Material spells even with Warcaster? In other words, I have two Scimitars - Round 1: Attack - BB - Off hand Attack (lovely). But say Round 2 I want to cast Fireball, I don't think I am able to put away my Scimitar AND pull out my Arcane Focus in the same action, correct? A single blade configuration renders that problem mute.
I selected Mobile, not so much for the extended foot speed, but for the Attack of Opportunity avoidance. Would allow me to run in, hit, and run out each round without ever having to even stick around to see if I get hit in the first place. Add Expeditious Retreat to the mix, and my round goes something like this:
1) Run in from 50ft away 2) Rapier Attack + BB 3) Bonus Action Dash 50ft away (outside the range of anyone reaching me without dashing themselves), while avoiding the Attack of Opportunity. 4) Lather. Rinse. Repeat (with an occasional Fireball thrown in for good measure).
That feels to me like a better survival maneuver than run in and hope that my concentration holds with advantage (Warcaster). But I admit I may be missing something.
Yeah your stats spread totally works better I was slightly under the influence of alcohol while I was posting (it was just a little wine after a meal I swear :P). So yeah just disregard my brainfart and go 18 DEX and 18 INT.
In regards to your concerns to two weapon fighting and needing to cast another spell mid combat the solution is fairly simple, just let go of your Shadow Blade and on subsequent turns rematerialize in your hand it with your bonus action. If in the case of needing to cast another concentration spell you can just stop concentrating on Shadow Blade and presto, instant free hand for spellcasting.
Also my point about Warcaster being better than Mobile is because you should not be running out of melee. Think about it with 18 DEX 20 INT and Bladesong active you have 22 AC (Mage Armor 13 + 4 + 5). That's more than a plate wearer with a shield. And you can cast the Shield spell on top of that to shoot up to 27. All this makes you a better candidate to soak up enemy attacks than having them take swings at the rest of your party. When you max DEX and start finding magic light armor you are just going to get harder and harder to hit. You also have access to defensive spells like Mirror Image. You also mentioned your party is ranged heavy so you might as well be the frontliner.
If anything the DM might try and have the enemies run past you to get at something easier to hit, in which case Warcaster lets you cast a spell at them instead of the usual AoO with a weapon. Another thing to mention is even if you get hit and lose concentration its not the end of the world since its most likely just going to be Shadow Blade. If you get damaged by a spell or something Warcaster helps with concentration saving throws while Mobile does not.
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In a low level campaign (level 2, going through level 15) was lucky enough to roll a pretty great starting build (9 STR/ 16 DEX/ 16 CON/ 17 INT/ 13 WIS/ 11 CHA) BEFORE applying racial bonuses. I am currently a Divination Wizard, but to be honest am finding it a bit boring. Sure Portent is awesome, but Divination spells kind of suck. Expert Divination feels like it only exists to incentivize people to use Divination spells, otherwise, they wouldn't be used.
So that got me thinking. Since I rolled well enough to handle a pretty decent MAD build, is it worth trying Bladesinger? Our party is pretty range-heavy at the moment. My DM is letting me retcon my build, so wanted to ask what this distinguished group feels is the best option and build, as well as thoughts on early level play:
1) Variant Human Bladesinger (9 STR/17 DEX/16 CON/18 INT/13 WIS/11 CHA)
Proficiency: Rapier
Starting Feat: Mobile, ASI (4): +2 INT to 20, ASI (8): Warcaster, ASI (12): Lucky (Crit defense)
My plan is for this build to swoop in and out of combat, avoiding hits, and opportunity attacks and using spells like Expeditious Retreat to get the hell out of dodge after a melee attack.
2) High Elf Bladesinger (Custom) (9 STR/18 DEX/16 CON/18 INT/13 WIS/11 CHA)
Proficiency: Rapier, Shortsword, Hand Crossbow, Scimitar
ASI (4): Mobile, ASI (8): Warcaster, ASI (12): +2 Int to 20
Similar plan as Variant Human, but in this case, I could also have flexibility after level 6 to use hand crossbow/cantrip extra attack for flavor as well as melee, or even Dual Wielding. Sort of a weapons master RP build. Also Darkvision to aid in Shadowblade advantage
3) Half Elf Bladesinger (Custom) (9 STR/18 DEX/17 CON/18 INT/13 WIS/11 CHA)
Proficiency: Rapier
ASI (4): Mobile, ASI (8): Res (Con) Con to 18, ASI (12): +2 Int to 20
Beefier version of Variant Human with the added Con. And same Darkvision to aid in Shadowblade advantage. But similarly weaker Int until later game as High Elf.
4) Stick to Divination Wizard
Keep it simple stupid, and give Div. Wizard more of a chance!
I appreciate the help here. I find that I am completely overanalyzing this thing!
If you go Bladesinger I would suggest Half Elf with the Ability Scores of STR 9 DEX 17 (16+1) CON 16 INT 19 (17+2) WIS 14 (13+1) CHA 11. I would go Elf Weapon Training to get longbow proficiency as well. In terms of ASI I would at level get +1 DEX and +1 INT to round both scores up. At level 8 I'll grab Warcaster and level 12 will be +2 DEX.
You actually don't need CON saving throws because Bladesong already does that, while Mobile is nice Warcaster I feel is slightly better since Bladesong already gives you extra movement and your massive AC will be sufficient to keep you safe in melee. Warcaster lets you fight with 2 weapons while still being able to use defensive spells like Shield or Absorb Elements.
Speaking of combat I would use a shortsword or a scimitar over the rapier as this opens up two weapon fighting for you. Basically in combat I would most likely activate Bladesong in the 1st round and use a powerful opening spell to damage or disrupt the enemy, maybe something like Fireball or Hypnotic Pattern. 2nd round I should be in melee range I would cast Shadow Blade then draw your shortsword/scimitar if you didn't do it the prior turn and proceed to attack with Shadow Blade followed by a Booming Blade with your shortsword/scimitar. Subsequent turns you can throw in an extra bonus attack with your shortsword/scimitar for a bit of extra sauce. Alternatively you can also sit back and fire your longbow and throw in a Toll the Dead or Firebolt after it if you cannot reach the enemy.
Final thoughts, if you really want CON saving throws as well you could multiclass and start as a Fighter at level 1. This allows you to pick up the Two Weapon Fighting Style as well but comes at the cost of delaying Wizard progression by 1 level.
Hope this was helpful.
I am curious why you went with DEX 17 (+3) and INT 19 (+4) to start with vs. DEX 18 (+4) and INT 18 (+4)? I understand going ASI at level 4, but if I did that with my spread, we would still net out the same at level 4 (DEX 18 + INT 20), while my spread would benefit from the +1 to AC for the levels leading up to level 4.
My rationale for Mobile over Warcaster was somewhat for the reason you stated - I don't necessarily need CON savings throws. So Warcaster would only be getting me the ability to fight two handed. But wouldn't Shadowblade prior to level 6, and Rapier + BB after level 6 come out pretty close if not higher than a Scimitar or Short Sword dual wield build?
Plus, wouldn't a dual wield build still mess with my Material spells even with Warcaster? In other words, I have two Scimitars - Round 1: Attack - BB - Off hand Attack (lovely). But say Round 2 I want to cast Fireball, I don't think I am able to put away my Scimitar AND pull out my Arcane Focus in the same action, correct? A single blade configuration renders that problem mute.
I selected Mobile, not so much for the extended foot speed, but for the Attack of Opportunity avoidance. Would allow me to run in, hit, and run out each round without ever having to even stick around to see if I get hit in the first place. Add Expeditious Retreat to the mix, and my round goes something like this:
1) Run in from 50ft away
2) Rapier Attack + BB
3) Bonus Action Dash 50ft away (outside the range of anyone reaching me without dashing themselves), while avoiding the Attack of Opportunity.
4) Lather. Rinse. Repeat (with an occasional Fireball thrown in for good measure).
That feels to me like a better survival maneuver than run in and hope that my concentration holds with advantage (Warcaster). But I admit I may be missing something.
Yeah your stats spread totally works better I was slightly under the influence of alcohol while I was posting (it was just a little wine after a meal I swear :P). So yeah just disregard my brainfart and go 18 DEX and 18 INT.
In regards to your concerns to two weapon fighting and needing to cast another spell mid combat the solution is fairly simple, just let go of your Shadow Blade and on subsequent turns rematerialize in your hand it with your bonus action. If in the case of needing to cast another concentration spell you can just stop concentrating on Shadow Blade and presto, instant free hand for spellcasting.
Also my point about Warcaster being better than Mobile is because you should not be running out of melee. Think about it with 18 DEX 20 INT and Bladesong active you have 22 AC (Mage Armor 13 + 4 + 5). That's more than a plate wearer with a shield. And you can cast the Shield spell on top of that to shoot up to 27. All this makes you a better candidate to soak up enemy attacks than having them take swings at the rest of your party. When you max DEX and start finding magic light armor you are just going to get harder and harder to hit. You also have access to defensive spells like Mirror Image. You also mentioned your party is ranged heavy so you might as well be the frontliner.
If anything the DM might try and have the enemies run past you to get at something easier to hit, in which case Warcaster lets you cast a spell at them instead of the usual AoO with a weapon. Another thing to mention is even if you get hit and lose concentration its not the end of the world since its most likely just going to be Shadow Blade. If you get damaged by a spell or something Warcaster helps with concentration saving throws while Mobile does not.