I'm curious as to what people think of the mobile feat with the Bladesinger. I know in other threads, people have talked about the increased movement speed and not having to worry about taking attacks of opportunity, which is great.
What really temps me though, is the knowledge that if I can booming blade and get out, it greatly increases the chance of them needing to move on their turn since I will no longer be within melee which makes them more likely to take that extra booming blade damage for moving.
Has anyone seen this in action? Does it play out well, or is it lack luster?
It works really well, but I think you will probably miss Warcaster or Resilient CON in the long run. You can, more or less, emulate Mobile effect by simply casting Misty Step. Of course you are still limited to spell slots, etc, but it’s a viable strategy when you want to look for Booming Blade extra damage.
I wouldn't recommend mobile for the purpose on bettering booming blade.
Instead, I suggest starting your wizard with an odd score in their intelligence, like 17, and then picking up telekinetic to round it up to 18.
Intelligence is important to wizards, but even more so to bladesingers because it improves your AC and your concentration checks. You pretty much want to prioritize 20 INT every time for bladesingers.
But anyways, with telekinetic you can do the same. You booming blade, then use your bonus action to push your target away. This forced movement won't activate the damage, but it will greatly improve your chances of activating it when the creature probably has to move on their turn. Best of all, this push can come in super handy and is resource-less. Push things into your web. Push things off a cliff. Push things in before you cast hypnotic pattern. Etc, etc.
I'm curious as to what people think of the mobile feat with the Bladesinger. I know in other threads, people have talked about the increased movement speed and not having to worry about taking attacks of opportunity, which is great.
What really temps me though, is the knowledge that if I can booming blade and get out, it greatly increases the chance of them needing to move on their turn since I will no longer be within melee which makes them more likely to take that extra booming blade damage for moving.
Has anyone seen this in action? Does it play out well, or is it lack luster?
I am not a fan. The movement bonus is nice (especially when added to the +10 in bladesong) but the rest of the feat is just about useless on a well built bladesinger.
I play a lot of bladesingers and the ones I build are built to be in melee every fight. Usually we want the bladesinger to draw AOOs and reactions so other players do not have to worry about them. With blur or Protection from good and evil up it is not uncommon that enemies will need double 20s to hit you (nat 20 with disadvantage).
I just finished a campaign where I went to 12th level with a bladesinger. She was only hit by 1 AOO the entire campaign and that was a nat 20 at 4th level when she did not have blur up and had already used her reaction so she could not cast silvery barbs. She caused AOOs all the time, they just never hit.
Using extra attack with attack and then Booming blade and then back away is her signature move (when not casting a leveled spell). I did it ALL THE TIME. I was lucky in that I picked up some +2 studded at about level 7, but with the defensive spell options I would have still been fine even without that.
One particular fight where I was hasted, I drew 7 AOOs to get into position to let loose with Fear. No hits.
Basically, if I had taken this feat my intelligence would have been 2 points lower and it would have prevented 1 hit the entire campaign.
The spells Kinetic Jaunt (2nd) and Ashardalons Stride (3rd) give you the same benefits. Longstrider for even more movement and Mirror Image for survivability. You have to pump up your Int and Dex, I wouldn´t invest in Mobile. You could also play a Goblin.
As others have said the feat looks very interesting for a bladesinger, but he doesn't really need it. Your AC is going to be high enough that you can afford opportunity attacks with minimal risk. I used it on a bladesinger, and regretted doing so. The bladesinger is one of the most MAD subclasses, and its need for ASIs doesn't leave you room for many feats. So if you want to choose a feat, ideally it should be one with ASI. Elven accuracy is a great feat for a bladesinger, for example, since you have a lot of resources to attack with advantage.
How do you figure? You get AC from Intelligence, and you get a bonus to Concentration saves from Intelligence. Dexterity is useful for melee attacks, but considering how melee damage is not a Wizard's forte (even a Bladesinger's), I'd hardly think you'd need to max it out. I can understand saying Bladesingers are less SAD than Rogues, who really only need Dexterity, but you're getting a higher AC than non-Bladesinger Wizards without even investing in Dexterity and a better Concentration save than other casters without investing in Constitution or Resilient: Constitution. Yes, Bladesingers benefit from Dexterity, and even more than other Wizards, but they're hardly dependent on it. Even with a low Dexterity, you're still gonna be harder to hit than other Wizards, and your spells (your primary source of damage and utility) will be just as good. Even if you're dead set on making a Bladesinger who focuses on melee, you're still only looking at two stats: Intelligence and Dexterity. The most MAD classes usually depend on three stats. Most other classes either depend on two, or if they're really lucky (like Rogues), just one.
If you're thinking of the Bladesinger like a melee/caster hybrid, then yeah, you're gonna be MAD... but then that's not really what a Bladesinger is. A Bladesinger is a Wizard, not a hybrid. Bladesinger melee basically fills the same role that Cantrips do: a source of resource-free damage when you don't want to, or can't, spend spell slots for it.
How do you figure? You get AC from Intelligence, and you get a bonus to Concentration saves from Intelligence. Dexterity is useful for melee attacks, but considering how melee damage is not a Wizard's forte (even a Bladesinger's), I'd hardly think you'd need to max it out. I can understand saying Bladesingers are less SAD than Rogues, who really only need Dexterity, but you're getting a higher AC than non-Bladesinger Wizards without even investing in Dexterity and a better Concentration save than other casters without investing in Constitution or Resilient: Constitution. Yes, Bladesingers benefit from Dexterity, and even more than other Wizards, but they're hardly dependent on it. Even with a low Dexterity, you're still gonna be harder to hit than other Wizards, and your spells (your primary source of damage and utility) will be just as good. Even if you're dead set on making a Bladesinger who focuses on melee, you're still only looking at two stats: Intelligence and Dexterity. The most MAD classes usually depend on three stats. Most other classes either depend on two, or if they're really lucky (like Rogues), just one.
If you're thinking of the Bladesinger like a melee/caster hybrid, then yeah, you're gonna be MAD... but then that's not really what a Bladesinger is. A Bladesinger is a Wizard, not a hybrid. Bladesinger melee basically fills the same role that Cantrips do: a source of resource-free damage when you don't want to, or can't, spend spell slots for it.
Who said anything about melee? The best weapon a bladesinger can wield is a hand crossbow, and they'll need dexterity if they care about the bolt hitting (if they don't care about it hitting they're wasting their L6 feature).
I just finished a campaign where I went to 12th level with a bladesinger. She was only hit by 1 AOO the entire campaign and that was a nat 20 at 4th level when she did not have blur up and had already used her reaction so she could not cast silvery barbs. She caused AOOs all the time, they just never hit.
Your DM needs to learn that AOOs are optional, and creatures don't need to take them first chance they get
Some blurred joker running around the battlefield trying to distract you from the rest of their party, that nobody can seem to hit anyway, should get ignored for AOOs pretty quickly
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
How do you figure? You get AC from Intelligence, and you get a bonus to Concentration saves from Intelligence. Dexterity is useful for melee attacks, but considering how melee damage is not a Wizard's forte (even a Bladesinger's), I'd hardly think you'd need to max it out. I can understand saying Bladesingers are less SAD than Rogues, who really only need Dexterity, but you're getting a higher AC than non-Bladesinger Wizards without even investing in Dexterity and a better Concentration save than other casters without investing in Constitution or Resilient: Constitution. Yes, Bladesingers benefit from Dexterity, and even more than other Wizards, but they're hardly dependent on it. Even with a low Dexterity, you're still gonna be harder to hit than other Wizards, and your spells (your primary source of damage and utility) will be just as good. Even if you're dead set on making a Bladesinger who focuses on melee, you're still only looking at two stats: Intelligence and Dexterity. The most MAD classes usually depend on three stats. Most other classes either depend on two, or if they're really lucky (like Rogues), just one.
If you're thinking of the Bladesinger like a melee/caster hybrid, then yeah, you're gonna be MAD... but then that's not really what a Bladesinger is. A Bladesinger is a Wizard, not a hybrid. Bladesinger melee basically fills the same role that Cantrips do: a source of resource-free damage when you don't want to, or can't, spend spell slots for it.
Who said anything about melee? The best weapon a bladesinger can wield is a hand crossbow, and they'll need dexterity if they care about the bolt hitting (if they don't care about it hitting they're wasting their L6 feature).
How are you getting proficiency with the hand crossbow? And how are you getting around loading? Unless you're talking about multiclassing and taking a Feat, or taking two Feats? And you're still doing less damage than, say, a rapier. In any case, even given all that, and even assuming you need to max out both Intelligence and Dexterity, we're still only talking about two stats. I'd hardly call that "one of the most MAD subclasses". Unless they meant "wizard subclasses"? In which case, sure, they're more MAD than others, if you're gonna be relying or melee for your damage. Otherwise, no, not really. Arguably less MAD than other wizard subclasses, since you can ignore Dexterity, do only a single weapon attack per turn (use your other attack for a Cantrip, still doing more "free" damage than other Wizards, as long as some weapon attacks hit), and still have a higher AC, better Concentration, and more mobility than other Wizard subclasses.
How do you figure? You get AC from Intelligence, and you get a bonus to Concentration saves from Intelligence. Dexterity is useful for melee attacks, but considering how melee damage is not a Wizard's forte (even a Bladesinger's), I'd hardly think you'd need to max it out. I can understand saying Bladesingers are less SAD than Rogues, who really only need Dexterity, but you're getting a higher AC than non-Bladesinger Wizards without even investing in Dexterity and a better Concentration save than other casters without investing in Constitution or Resilient: Constitution. Yes, Bladesingers benefit from Dexterity, and even more than other Wizards, but they're hardly dependent on it. Even with a low Dexterity, you're still gonna be harder to hit than other Wizards, and your spells (your primary source of damage and utility) will be just as good. Even if you're dead set on making a Bladesinger who focuses on melee, you're still only looking at two stats: Intelligence and Dexterity. The most MAD classes usually depend on three stats. Most other classes either depend on two, or if they're really lucky (like Rogues), just one.
If you're thinking of the Bladesinger like a melee/caster hybrid, then yeah, you're gonna be MAD... but then that's not really what a Bladesinger is. A Bladesinger is a Wizard, not a hybrid. Bladesinger melee basically fills the same role that Cantrips do: a source of resource-free damage when you don't want to, or can't, spend spell slots for it.
Bladesinger Mechanics make it an outstanding front line tank, really only second to a Barbarian in that role. But you do need to max dexterity for that.
Usually I play a bladesinger to be a front line combatant. I do use offensive spells at times, especially against bosses or overwhelming numbers, but when I cast an offensive spell it is from the front in melee. Most of the time I am not casting though I am being the guy who is blocking the enemies, sucking up attacks, restricting their movement and keeping them off more squishy characters (which is usually everyone else). Their superior mobility due to movement bonus and misty step mean they can get into melee faster and their AC means they can move around and reposition for control with little fear.
Melee damage a bladesinger is "good". It is not top tier, but they are better than any build with a comparable AC. You are looking at base damage of 3d8+2xdex at 6th level, 4d8+2dex at 11th level. That is without TWF or using a spell like shadowblade or Hex. This is not going to be as much melee damage as a PAM/GWM but it will be more at will damage than most other builds, especially sword and boards which is what they compare to most. Additionally, they can get the secondary damage from booming blade more reliably than most classes because they do not have to stay next to the enemy. That adds on another 2d8 in teir 2 and 3d8 in tier 3.
You can play a bladesinger to be more of a traditional wizard with a bit of a defensive buff, but a bladesinger is REALLY GOOD as a specialized defensive melee combatant loaded with mostly defensive or melee spells (PEG, Blur, Haste, mirror image, false life). I usually have a handful of offensive spells. My favorites are Thunderstep, Ligtning Bolt, Fear and Psychic Lance, but I do not generally have a lot of these prepared and my high level slots are used for False life or contingency as often as they are used for offense.
How are you getting proficiency with the hand crossbow? And how are you getting around loading?
I would not say Hand Crossbow is the best weapon for a bladesinger but I always try to get it on a build. Usually I do that through Racial Weapon training. I like to play a class with racial weapons and then trade those out for Hand crossbow, Rapier, Short Sword, whip and scimitar. With Drow you get three of those even your DM does not allow swapping. Then Bladesinger gets one melee weapon at 2nd level. Usually that will get you close to all of those. If you are playing a custom or a human then weapon master at 1st level is an option (boosting dex). That is a high price to pay though and usually I am looking for Fey touched with Hex at 1st level. Custom lineage can get you Fey touched for 16 Intelligence and 17 dex to start and then get weapon master for 18 Dex at level 4.
Loading is not an issue. If you are going ranged your Extraattack is usually a hand crossbow followed by a cantrip (I like Chill Touch, but most prefer firebolt or Toll the dead). This is the best extra attack in the game because cantrips scale with level and you are getting them in exchange for one attack instead of one action. But personally I am in melee using an attack and booming blade (and potentially a TWF attack) a lot more than I am in ranged combat.
Unless you're talking about multiclassing and taking a Feat, or taking two Feats? And you're still doing less damage than, say, a rapier. In any case, even given all that, and even assuming you need to max out both Intelligence and Dexterity, we're still only talking about two stats.
If you plan to go toe-to-toe with the enemy you will need high dexterity and high intelligence both. You can max intelligence first, but then you will want to max dex right after, not leave it a 16.
When you are fighting CR 20 enemies the difference between say a 28AC and a 30AC is significant.
How do you figure? You get AC from Intelligence, and you get a bonus to Concentration saves from Intelligence. Dexterity is useful for melee attacks, but considering how melee damage is not a Wizard's forte (even a Bladesinger's), I'd hardly think you'd need to max it out. I can understand saying Bladesingers are less SAD than Rogues, who really only need Dexterity, but you're getting a higher AC than non-Bladesinger Wizards without even investing in Dexterity and a better Concentration save than other casters without investing in Constitution or Resilient: Constitution. Yes, Bladesingers benefit from Dexterity, and even more than other Wizards, but they're hardly dependent on it. Even with a low Dexterity, you're still gonna be harder to hit than other Wizards, and your spells (your primary source of damage and utility) will be just as good. Even if you're dead set on making a Bladesinger who focuses on melee, you're still only looking at two stats: Intelligence and Dexterity. The most MAD classes usually depend on three stats. Most other classes either depend on two, or if they're really lucky (like Rogues), just one.
If you're thinking of the Bladesinger like a melee/caster hybrid, then yeah, you're gonna be MAD... but then that's not really what a Bladesinger is. A Bladesinger is a Wizard, not a hybrid. Bladesinger melee basically fills the same role that Cantrips do: a source of resource-free damage when you don't want to, or can't, spend spell slots for it.
That's the problem with the Bladesinger. It will always work better as a normal wizard than as a frontliner. And that's a problem, since the subclass is designed for you to be a frontliner. When you play a bladesinger it's because you want to play a gish. If not, you play another wizard.
For a bladesinger to work the way it's supposed to work, it would have to be a half caster. Curiously, to play a bladesinger the way it's supposed to work, it's best to play AT X/bladesinger 2 or EK X/bladesinger 2.
That's the problem with the Bladesinger. It will always work better as a normal wizard than as a frontliner. And that's a problem, since the subclass is designed for you to be a frontliner. When you play a bladesinger it's because you want to play a gish. If not, you play another wizard.
Any character will always work better as a traditional wizard because a wizard is the best class. But a bladesinger frontliner is top tier as a frontliner.
For a bladesinger to work the way it's supposed to work, it would have to be a half caster. Curiously, to play a bladesinger the way it's supposed to work, it's best to play AT X/bladesinger 2 or EK X/bladesinger 2.
Both of these only weaken a bladesinger IMO. I have played AT bladesingers and they are fun, and powerful but they are not as powerful for a melee character as a single class bladesinger at any level. Yes you can get sneak attack but that is not enough damage to make up for losing spell slots and delaying extra attack and song of defense. At every level if you look at take another level of bladesinger and take a level of Rogue the answer will always be better to take a bladesinger level. Cunning action dash can be useful, but not useful enough for being a full 2 levels behind on spell slots. Cunning action disengage is almost useless. You don't need it and most of the time you might use it you have a better use for your bonus action.
EK is not a good match with a bladesinger IMO. I like playing EKs in general, but not with a bladesinger multiclass. The two classes do not compliment each other. Sure they have action surge but you are 2 levels behind to get it. You are 3 levels behind to get the subclass and it brings nothing to the table. You can get all the weapons you want anyway through other methods. The armor proficiency does nothing for you. Taking away your high level slots is a huge reduction on your temp hps.
There are only two class that will make a bladesinger arguably more powerful in melee:
1 a 1-level Undead Warlock dip early. That gives you an ability that can frighten one enemy a turn, additonal cantrips and a spell slot for shield that recharges on a short rest. It also lets you get Hex and Armor of Agathys (which is better than false life). This is arguably worth being behind a level in wizard because you get the free short rest slot.
2. After you complete 12th level then taking the rest of your levels in sorcerer can make you more powerful in melee. You do not want to do this until 12th level because you want to get contingency as soon as possible, but once you have contingency you take another level to get the ASI and then you should have all the important spells. Your sorcerer levels stack with your wizard levels so you still get the high level slots you want for false life (or AOA if you take a clockwork soul) and when metamagic comes online it is useful for quickening spells like PEG, Blur or Haste and for extending False Life or Armor of Agathys. You pick up a lot of sorcerer spells you already have as a wizard but then you can prepare other wizard spells.
You want to stay in Wizard so you can get to high level spells which are used for False Life (or AOA if you took the warlock dip above).
Personally, I used Bladesinger to compliment an EK I built for a brief campaign our DM is offering us. We're level 16 and at that, I made him EK 11, Bladesinger 5. Gets me 3 attacks, loads of spells and slots and by going to 5 on the Wizard side, opened my 3rd level spells for Fireball, Lightning bolt, Haste and Slow to name a few. The added mobility of Bladesong and the huge AC boost makes him a lot more durable and useful in melee and simply being a Wizard allows him to learn any new spells we happen across and perform Ritual Casting, to save slots for a lot of utility spells.
I've found it a great blend and I find I can do a fair bit more than either class would have achieved on it's own at this level. So far as how helpful Mobile might be, it's debatable, but I personally feel there are a fair number of feat options that might better serve.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
That's the problem with the Bladesinger. It will always work better as a normal wizard than as a frontliner. And that's a problem, since the subclass is designed for you to be a frontliner. When you play a bladesinger it's because you want to play a gish. If not, you play another wizard.
Any character will always work better as a traditional wizard because a wizard is the best class. But a bladesinger frontliner is top tier as a frontliner.
Well, we're not going to go into whether it's top tier as a frontliner or not, but that has nothing to do with what I was saying. I mean, the problem is that no one plays it as a frontliner. Especially at the medium-high level, where as a frontliner it is wasted.
And yes, I know that someone is going to come out and say that he plays it by casting shadow blade at lvl5 or whatever. But that, objectively, is a good way to waste a wizard.
I've played and seen a lot of bladesinger play, and you only take him into melee when you don't have any spell slots left or when you don't want to spend them to fight minions.
That's why for me the class is poorly designed. Not because it doesn't work as a frontliner, but because you're always going to be better at casting spells than any other wizard. And the concept of the bladesinger is not that. It should never have been a subclass of wizard.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm curious as to what people think of the mobile feat with the Bladesinger. I know in other threads, people have talked about the increased movement speed and not having to worry about taking attacks of opportunity, which is great.
What really temps me though, is the knowledge that if I can booming blade and get out, it greatly increases the chance of them needing to move on their turn since I will no longer be within melee which makes them more likely to take that extra booming blade damage for moving.
Has anyone seen this in action? Does it play out well, or is it lack luster?
It works well
It works really well, but I think you will probably miss Warcaster or Resilient CON in the long run. You can, more or less, emulate Mobile effect by simply casting Misty Step. Of course you are still limited to spell slots, etc, but it’s a viable strategy when you want to look for Booming Blade extra damage.
I wouldn't recommend mobile for the purpose on bettering booming blade.
Instead, I suggest starting your wizard with an odd score in their intelligence, like 17, and then picking up telekinetic to round it up to 18.
Intelligence is important to wizards, but even more so to bladesingers because it improves your AC and your concentration checks. You pretty much want to prioritize 20 INT every time for bladesingers.
But anyways, with telekinetic you can do the same. You booming blade, then use your bonus action to push your target away. This forced movement won't activate the damage, but it will greatly improve your chances of activating it when the creature probably has to move on their turn. Best of all, this push can come in super handy and is resource-less. Push things into your web. Push things off a cliff. Push things in before you cast hypnotic pattern. Etc, etc.
I am not a fan. The movement bonus is nice (especially when added to the +10 in bladesong) but the rest of the feat is just about useless on a well built bladesinger.
I play a lot of bladesingers and the ones I build are built to be in melee every fight. Usually we want the bladesinger to draw AOOs and reactions so other players do not have to worry about them. With blur or Protection from good and evil up it is not uncommon that enemies will need double 20s to hit you (nat 20 with disadvantage).
I just finished a campaign where I went to 12th level with a bladesinger. She was only hit by 1 AOO the entire campaign and that was a nat 20 at 4th level when she did not have blur up and had already used her reaction so she could not cast silvery barbs. She caused AOOs all the time, they just never hit.
Using extra attack with attack and then Booming blade and then back away is her signature move (when not casting a leveled spell). I did it ALL THE TIME. I was lucky in that I picked up some +2 studded at about level 7, but with the defensive spell options I would have still been fine even without that.
One particular fight where I was hasted, I drew 7 AOOs to get into position to let loose with Fear. No hits.
Basically, if I had taken this feat my intelligence would have been 2 points lower and it would have prevented 1 hit the entire campaign.
The spells Kinetic Jaunt (2nd) and Ashardalons Stride (3rd) give you the same benefits. Longstrider for even more movement and Mirror Image for survivability. You have to pump up your Int and Dex, I wouldn´t invest in Mobile. You could also play a Goblin.
As others have said the feat looks very interesting for a bladesinger, but he doesn't really need it. Your AC is going to be high enough that you can afford opportunity attacks with minimal risk.
I used it on a bladesinger, and regretted doing so. The bladesinger is one of the most MAD subclasses, and its need for ASIs doesn't leave you room for many feats. So if you want to choose a feat, ideally it should be one with ASI. Elven accuracy is a great feat for a bladesinger, for example, since you have a lot of resources to attack with advantage.
How do you figure? You get AC from Intelligence, and you get a bonus to Concentration saves from Intelligence. Dexterity is useful for melee attacks, but considering how melee damage is not a Wizard's forte (even a Bladesinger's), I'd hardly think you'd need to max it out. I can understand saying Bladesingers are less SAD than Rogues, who really only need Dexterity, but you're getting a higher AC than non-Bladesinger Wizards without even investing in Dexterity and a better Concentration save than other casters without investing in Constitution or Resilient: Constitution. Yes, Bladesingers benefit from Dexterity, and even more than other Wizards, but they're hardly dependent on it. Even with a low Dexterity, you're still gonna be harder to hit than other Wizards, and your spells (your primary source of damage and utility) will be just as good. Even if you're dead set on making a Bladesinger who focuses on melee, you're still only looking at two stats: Intelligence and Dexterity. The most MAD classes usually depend on three stats. Most other classes either depend on two, or if they're really lucky (like Rogues), just one.
If you're thinking of the Bladesinger like a melee/caster hybrid, then yeah, you're gonna be MAD... but then that's not really what a Bladesinger is. A Bladesinger is a Wizard, not a hybrid. Bladesinger melee basically fills the same role that Cantrips do: a source of resource-free damage when you don't want to, or can't, spend spell slots for it.
Who said anything about melee? The best weapon a bladesinger can wield is a hand crossbow, and they'll need dexterity if they care about the bolt hitting (if they don't care about it hitting they're wasting their L6 feature).
Your DM needs to learn that AOOs are optional, and creatures don't need to take them first chance they get
Some blurred joker running around the battlefield trying to distract you from the rest of their party, that nobody can seem to hit anyway, should get ignored for AOOs pretty quickly
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
How are you getting proficiency with the hand crossbow? And how are you getting around loading? Unless you're talking about multiclassing and taking a Feat, or taking two Feats? And you're still doing less damage than, say, a rapier. In any case, even given all that, and even assuming you need to max out both Intelligence and Dexterity, we're still only talking about two stats. I'd hardly call that "one of the most MAD subclasses". Unless they meant "wizard subclasses"? In which case, sure, they're more MAD than others, if you're gonna be relying or melee for your damage. Otherwise, no, not really. Arguably less MAD than other wizard subclasses, since you can ignore Dexterity, do only a single weapon attack per turn (use your other attack for a Cantrip, still doing more "free" damage than other Wizards, as long as some weapon attacks hit), and still have a higher AC, better Concentration, and more mobility than other Wizard subclasses.
Bladesinger Mechanics make it an outstanding front line tank, really only second to a Barbarian in that role. But you do need to max dexterity for that.
Usually I play a bladesinger to be a front line combatant. I do use offensive spells at times, especially against bosses or overwhelming numbers, but when I cast an offensive spell it is from the front in melee. Most of the time I am not casting though I am being the guy who is blocking the enemies, sucking up attacks, restricting their movement and keeping them off more squishy characters (which is usually everyone else). Their superior mobility due to movement bonus and misty step mean they can get into melee faster and their AC means they can move around and reposition for control with little fear.
Melee damage a bladesinger is "good". It is not top tier, but they are better than any build with a comparable AC. You are looking at base damage of 3d8+2xdex at 6th level, 4d8+2dex at 11th level. That is without TWF or using a spell like shadowblade or Hex. This is not going to be as much melee damage as a PAM/GWM but it will be more at will damage than most other builds, especially sword and boards which is what they compare to most. Additionally, they can get the secondary damage from booming blade more reliably than most classes because they do not have to stay next to the enemy. That adds on another 2d8 in teir 2 and 3d8 in tier 3.
You can play a bladesinger to be more of a traditional wizard with a bit of a defensive buff, but a bladesinger is REALLY GOOD as a specialized defensive melee combatant loaded with mostly defensive or melee spells (PEG, Blur, Haste, mirror image, false life). I usually have a handful of offensive spells. My favorites are Thunderstep, Ligtning Bolt, Fear and Psychic Lance, but I do not generally have a lot of these prepared and my high level slots are used for False life or contingency as often as they are used for offense.
I would not say Hand Crossbow is the best weapon for a bladesinger but I always try to get it on a build. Usually I do that through Racial Weapon training. I like to play a class with racial weapons and then trade those out for Hand crossbow, Rapier, Short Sword, whip and scimitar. With Drow you get three of those even your DM does not allow swapping. Then Bladesinger gets one melee weapon at 2nd level. Usually that will get you close to all of those. If you are playing a custom or a human then weapon master at 1st level is an option (boosting dex). That is a high price to pay though and usually I am looking for Fey touched with Hex at 1st level. Custom lineage can get you Fey touched for 16 Intelligence and 17 dex to start and then get weapon master for 18 Dex at level 4.
Loading is not an issue. If you are going ranged your Extraattack is usually a hand crossbow followed by a cantrip (I like Chill Touch, but most prefer firebolt or Toll the dead). This is the best extra attack in the game because cantrips scale with level and you are getting them in exchange for one attack instead of one action. But personally I am in melee using an attack and booming blade (and potentially a TWF attack) a lot more than I am in ranged combat.
If you plan to go toe-to-toe with the enemy you will need high dexterity and high intelligence both. You can max intelligence first, but then you will want to max dex right after, not leave it a 16.
When you are fighting CR 20 enemies the difference between say a 28AC and a 30AC is significant.
That's the problem with the Bladesinger. It will always work better as a normal wizard than as a frontliner. And that's a problem, since the subclass is designed for you to be a frontliner. When you play a bladesinger it's because you want to play a gish. If not, you play another wizard.
For a bladesinger to work the way it's supposed to work, it would have to be a half caster. Curiously, to play a bladesinger the way it's supposed to work, it's best to play AT X/bladesinger 2 or EK X/bladesinger 2.
Any character will always work better as a traditional wizard because a wizard is the best class. But a bladesinger frontliner is top tier as a frontliner.
Both of these only weaken a bladesinger IMO. I have played AT bladesingers and they are fun, and powerful but they are not as powerful for a melee character as a single class bladesinger at any level. Yes you can get sneak attack but that is not enough damage to make up for losing spell slots and delaying extra attack and song of defense. At every level if you look at take another level of bladesinger and take a level of Rogue the answer will always be better to take a bladesinger level. Cunning action dash can be useful, but not useful enough for being a full 2 levels behind on spell slots. Cunning action disengage is almost useless. You don't need it and most of the time you might use it you have a better use for your bonus action.
EK is not a good match with a bladesinger IMO. I like playing EKs in general, but not with a bladesinger multiclass. The two classes do not compliment each other. Sure they have action surge but you are 2 levels behind to get it. You are 3 levels behind to get the subclass and it brings nothing to the table. You can get all the weapons you want anyway through other methods. The armor proficiency does nothing for you. Taking away your high level slots is a huge reduction on your temp hps.
There are only two class that will make a bladesinger arguably more powerful in melee:
1 a 1-level Undead Warlock dip early. That gives you an ability that can frighten one enemy a turn, additonal cantrips and a spell slot for shield that recharges on a short rest. It also lets you get Hex and Armor of Agathys (which is better than false life). This is arguably worth being behind a level in wizard because you get the free short rest slot.
2. After you complete 12th level then taking the rest of your levels in sorcerer can make you more powerful in melee. You do not want to do this until 12th level because you want to get contingency as soon as possible, but once you have contingency you take another level to get the ASI and then you should have all the important spells. Your sorcerer levels stack with your wizard levels so you still get the high level slots you want for false life (or AOA if you take a clockwork soul) and when metamagic comes online it is useful for quickening spells like PEG, Blur or Haste and for extending False Life or Armor of Agathys. You pick up a lot of sorcerer spells you already have as a wizard but then you can prepare other wizard spells.
You want to stay in Wizard so you can get to high level spells which are used for False Life (or AOA if you took the warlock dip above).
Personally, I used Bladesinger to compliment an EK I built for a brief campaign our DM is offering us. We're level 16 and at that, I made him EK 11, Bladesinger 5. Gets me 3 attacks, loads of spells and slots and by going to 5 on the Wizard side, opened my 3rd level spells for Fireball, Lightning bolt, Haste and Slow to name a few. The added mobility of Bladesong and the huge AC boost makes him a lot more durable and useful in melee and simply being a Wizard allows him to learn any new spells we happen across and perform Ritual Casting, to save slots for a lot of utility spells.
I've found it a great blend and I find I can do a fair bit more than either class would have achieved on it's own at this level. So far as how helpful Mobile might be, it's debatable, but I personally feel there are a fair number of feat options that might better serve.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
Well, we're not going to go into whether it's top tier as a frontliner or not, but that has nothing to do with what I was saying. I mean, the problem is that no one plays it as a frontliner. Especially at the medium-high level, where as a frontliner it is wasted.
And yes, I know that someone is going to come out and say that he plays it by casting shadow blade at lvl5 or whatever. But that, objectively, is a good way to waste a wizard.
I've played and seen a lot of bladesinger play, and you only take him into melee when you don't have any spell slots left or when you don't want to spend them to fight minions.
That's why for me the class is poorly designed. Not because it doesn't work as a frontliner, but because you're always going to be better at casting spells than any other wizard. And the concept of the bladesinger is not that. It should never have been a subclass of wizard.