An extra damage die if you roll a natural 20. Not very impressive. A silver weapon when facing a werewolf is useful, but not much more than a +1 weapon, and the latter is useful against ANY enemy. I understand why they did it: requiring a particular weapon messes with the CR. But as a DM, I would change it as I see fit. Here's what I'd do: werebeasts regenerate 10 hitpoints at the start of their turn if they are in beast or hybrid form, unless they have taken a critical hit or hit from a silver weapon since their last turn. This way, a silver weapon is still a gamechanger, but isn't absolutely necessary.

on a crit is awful design.  Just vulnerability would be way better.

So werewolves are pretty terrible now.

I've found almost every monster better in the 2024 rules, besides the lycanthropes. I thought we would head more in the VRGtR direction, give them regen disabled by silver weapons, which prevents the feels-bad martial tax, while still giving groups incentive to plan accordingly if they know they are going up against werewolves. This would give the lackluster bonus to crits that current silver weapons feel like a nice cherry on top of an already useful tool.

This iteration is certainly dangerous, but you could call it "Contagious Mean Monster Man" as it doesn't feel like a werewolf without the silver vulnerability

No vulnerabilities to silver?  Wolfsbane? Seems like a missed opportunity to me.

Quote from TheOtherRyan >>

Quote from LuckiestLycan >>

My disappointment is Immeasurable and my day is ruined.

They did a lot right with this one, like: Darkvison, Monstrosity, large in hybrid form, higher AC, higher asi's, more damage, a bonus action transformation, and pack tactics is certainly neat.

But an extra 13 hp and +3 to AC does not make up for the lack of Immunity to non-sivered BPS. I was really hoping they were making the new werewolf like the Loup Garou with all these other changes, but they removed the immunity and DIDN'T GIVE THEM REGENERATION! 

Like, why???? Every flavour of Vampire gets it, Trolls get it, why don't Werewolves get it?

Edit: Not every flavour of Vampire gets it either, they've removed it from vampire & vampire spawn and didn't give it to the new ones. WHY? Revenant & Trolls kept it, so it's not like a dead ability, vampires and werewolves are both two of the supernatural creatures that thematically should get it! GAAAAAAAAAAA!

And I'm not a fan of giving Lycanthropes weapons they can use in hybrid form, it kinda just spoils the vibe of transforming into a rampaging blood thirsty monster if they just pick up a bow and calmly ping shots from a distance. And the fact the bow does more than the claws is a crime, like are they trying to encourage them to use a bow instead or what?

And tbh, they really should have buffed the Lycanthropes CR, we have vampires for like every cr but Lycanthropes are still stuck between like cr 2 and 5? (except the Loup Garou)

I'm just gonna keep using the Loup Garou from Van Richtens Guide to Ravenloft, and I'd suggest others do the same.

 To a few prior comments,

Self-healing abilities simply provide monsters with more hit points, so in keeping with this edition's convention of removing unnecessary language, those hit points have simply been factored into the monster's hit point total and AC instead (regen is calculated as lasting for three rounds per combat). In some monsters where regeneration is part of the monsters lore, it remains undisturbed, but that is not the case with werewolves. 

As other commentators have noted, shapeshifters' weakness to silver is now part of the silvered weapons themselves, rather than the shapeshifters' stat block (to increase readability of the stat blocks at a glance).

Regarding the use of weapons in hybrid form: the stat block indicates that they can be used not that they must be used. If you'd rather your Werewolves use Bite or Scratch instead, then do so.

You are certainly more than welcome to use the Loup Garou–it's an excellent monster! But the negativity here is totally unnecessary and unproductive. Rather than focus on things to dislike, look at what you can do with this stat block. It's CR 3, which means that many more players can encounter a Werewolf (and survive) than can do the same with a Loup Garou. Engage with things in good faith and at least try to enjoy them (and it's fine if you don't)!

 Nobody needs you running interference for Wizard's bad design my guy 

Quote from Megapope >>

Quote from TheOtherRyan >>

Quote from LuckiestLycan >>

My disappointment is Immeasurable and my day is ruined.

They did a lot right with this one, like: Darkvison, Monstrosity, large in hybrid form, higher AC, higher asi's, more damage, a bonus action transformation, and pack tactics is certainly neat.

But an extra 13 hp and +3 to AC does not make up for the lack of Immunity to non-sivered BPS. I was really hoping they were making the new werewolf like the Loup Garou with all these other changes, but they removed the immunity and DIDN'T GIVE THEM REGENERATION! 

Like, why???? Every flavour of Vampire gets it, Trolls get it, why don't Werewolves get it?

Edit: Not every flavour of Vampire gets it either, they've removed it from vampire & vampire spawn and didn't give it to the new ones. WHY? Revenant & Trolls kept it, so it's not like a dead ability, vampires and werewolves are both two of the supernatural creatures that thematically should get it! GAAAAAAAAAAA!

And I'm not a fan of giving Lycanthropes weapons they can use in hybrid form, it kinda just spoils the vibe of transforming into a rampaging blood thirsty monster if they just pick up a bow and calmly ping shots from a distance. And the fact the bow does more than the claws is a crime, like are they trying to encourage them to use a bow instead or what?

And tbh, they really should have buffed the Lycanthropes CR, we have vampires for like every cr but Lycanthropes are still stuck between like cr 2 and 5? (except the Loup Garou)

I'm just gonna keep using the Loup Garou from Van Richtens Guide to Ravenloft, and I'd suggest others do the same.

 To a few prior comments,

Self-healing abilities simply provide monsters with more hit points, so in keeping with this edition's convention of removing unnecessary language, those hit points have simply been factored into the monster's hit point total and AC instead (regen is calculated as lasting for three rounds per combat). In some monsters where regeneration is part of the monsters lore, it remains undisturbed, but that is not the case with werewolves. 

As other commentators have noted, shapeshifters' weakness to silver is now part of the silvered weapons themselves, rather than the shapeshifters' stat block (to increase readability of the stat blocks at a glance).

Regarding the use of weapons in hybrid form: the stat block indicates that they can be used not that they must be used. If you'd rather your Werewolves use Bite or Scratch instead, then do so.

You are certainly more than welcome to use the Loup Garou–it's an excellent monster! But the negativity here is totally unnecessary and unproductive. Rather than focus on things to dislike, look at what you can do with this stat block. It's CR 3, which means that many more players can encounter a Werewolf (and survive) than can do the same with a Loup Garou. Engage with things in good faith and at least try to enjoy them (and it's fine if you don't)!

 

 Nobody needs you running interference for Wizard's bad design my guy 

Replying 5 months after the fact just to make a personal attack is crazy. My explanations are there if you'd like to address them.

Quote from TheOtherRyan >>

Quote from Megapope >>

Quote from TheOtherRyan >>

Quote from LuckiestLycan >>

My disappointment is Immeasurable and my day is ruined.

They did a lot right with this one, like: Darkvison, Monstrosity, large in hybrid form, higher AC, higher asi's, more damage, a bonus action transformation, and pack tactics is certainly neat.

But an extra 13 hp and +3 to AC does not make up for the lack of Immunity to non-sivered BPS. I was really hoping they were making the new werewolf like the Loup Garou with all these other changes, but they removed the immunity and DIDN'T GIVE THEM REGENERATION! 

Like, why???? Every flavour of Vampire gets it, Trolls get it, why don't Werewolves get it?

Edit: Not every flavour of Vampire gets it either, they've removed it from vampire & vampire spawn and didn't give it to the new ones. WHY? Revenant & Trolls kept it, so it's not like a dead ability, vampires and werewolves are both two of the supernatural creatures that thematically should get it! GAAAAAAAAAAA!

And I'm not a fan of giving Lycanthropes weapons they can use in hybrid form, it kinda just spoils the vibe of transforming into a rampaging blood thirsty monster if they just pick up a bow and calmly ping shots from a distance. And the fact the bow does more than the claws is a crime, like are they trying to encourage them to use a bow instead or what?

And tbh, they really should have buffed the Lycanthropes CR, we have vampires for like every cr but Lycanthropes are still stuck between like cr 2 and 5? (except the Loup Garou)

I'm just gonna keep using the Loup Garou from Van Richtens Guide to Ravenloft, and I'd suggest others do the same.

 To a few prior comments,

Self-healing abilities simply provide monsters with more hit points, so in keeping with this edition's convention of removing unnecessary language, those hit points have simply been factored into the monster's hit point total and AC instead (regen is calculated as lasting for three rounds per combat). In some monsters where regeneration is part of the monsters lore, it remains undisturbed, but that is not the case with werewolves. 

As other commentators have noted, shapeshifters' weakness to silver is now part of the silvered weapons themselves, rather than the shapeshifters' stat block (to increase readability of the stat blocks at a glance).

Regarding the use of weapons in hybrid form: the stat block indicates that they can be used not that they must be used. If you'd rather your Werewolves use Bite or Scratch instead, then do so.

You are certainly more than welcome to use the Loup Garou–it's an excellent monster! But the negativity here is totally unnecessary and unproductive. Rather than focus on things to dislike, look at what you can do with this stat block. It's CR 3, which means that many more players can encounter a Werewolf (and survive) than can do the same with a Loup Garou. Engage with things in good faith and at least try to enjoy them (and it's fine if you don't)!

 

 Nobody needs you running interference for Wizard's bad design my guy 

Replying 5 months after the fact just to make a personal attack is crazy. My explanations are there if you'd like to address them.

Out of sheer curiosity, is there a single thing in the new MM that you dislike? I will freely admit that I was overly critical on first release but frankly speaking you legitimately do seem like a paid defender for WOTC. Luckiest Lycan went out of his way to point out both the good and the bad, but you only focused on his negative comments and even told him to engage in good faith when he blatantly was speaking in good faith. You only post to defend criticism and tell everyone that we are engaging in bad faith, which to be fair some of us have, me included, but this is the place for comments and feedback. If all negativity is unnecessary and unproductive, am I to understand that everything is perfect and immaculate and that nothing could possibly be improved? Or is it just that we are only to comment good things, and keep any constructive criticism to ourselves? Several people making constructive criticism have made suggestions that were beneficial to many who read the comments, I didn't even remember the Loup Garu existed so him commenting was in fact very productive and while not necessary was certainly appreciated. To clarify this isn't meant as an attack, just honest curiosity about your opinion and if you yourself have anything you dislike or if you truly believe the book to be perfect as is.

In regards to your comments here, my response is that the silvered weapons description is not at all equal to them being immune to non-silvered weapons or to just having their regen turned off. This lycanthrope can be killed by anything, and based on the silvered weapons description it might not even be better than a regular weapon. It says

An alchemical process has bonded silver to this magic weapon. When you score a Critical Hit with it against a creature that is shape-shifted, the weapon deals one additional die of damage.

So, my question is which is the true form? It only deals additional damage against a creature that is shapeshifted, so would it not do additional damage if the lycan is in human form since they are not shifted? That is a massive change both to lore and to the mechanics and frankly speaking from a mathematical point of view why bother with the silvered weapons? Crits are not that common, and for the cost which at least in 2014 was at least 50g it is not worth it when the benefit is pretty minor. For the lycan this means they are arguably more dangerous as their humanoid form, because apparently, they don't have any weakness to silver anymore in their base form. Also their human weapons for some unexplainable reason are more powerful than any normal human, so their longbow and presumably great sword are just more dangerous than actually getting bitten by a large sized werewolf in monstrous form. Assuming that you double the damage of a great sword, which who knows since we don't actually have any guidelines for how monster gear works, it would be 4d6+3 which is 17, so just using a regular great sword would be much better than going full werewolf. In an actual fight to the death, not just trying to turn others who cannot fight back into werewolves, the werewolf does more damage as a bizarrely powerful humanoid who for some reason has amazing weapons that stop being amazing as soon as a player gets them, and doesn't have any weakness to silver. That is not a good design, these guys should be stronger in bestial form, that is the entire point of their lore, that they are stronger as a beast than a human. Fighting them transformed has always been more dangerous and terrifying

A werewolf is a savage predator. In its humanoid form, a werewolf has heightened senses, a fiery temper, and a tendency to eat rare meat. Its wolf form is a fearsome predator, but its hybrid form is more terrifying by far — a furred and well-muscled humanoid body topped by a ravening wolf’s head. A werewolf can wield weapons in hybrid form, though it prefers to tear foes apart with its powerful claws and bite. - the old 2014 description

This made sense back then because its bite and claws actually were more powerful than its weapons, but in this version that is not true, as I stated above if given a great sword and scaled to do double damage like the longbow does, then the bite and claw are a good bit weaker. And once again, they are only weak to a critical hit from a silver weapon if they transform, so as long as they don't transform and just stay humanoid they are not weak to silver at all, which has always been a key part of their lore. That weakness to silver has been used to detect a werewolf or other form of were creature in many myths, because even as a humanoid they were weaker to it.

Let's be real. 

2014 Immunity to damage from regular weapons was a Martial character nerf. It did nothing. The wizard could off werewolves left and right with a cantrip. 

Now they are actually dangerous. 

Regen, silver vulnerability and the Moon thing are fairly modern elements from modern TV. 

This is more similar to the old world monster stories. 

Quote from Xidien >>

Let's be real. 

2014 Immunity to damage from regular weapons was a Martial character nerf. It did nothing. The wizard could off werewolves left and right with a cantrip. 

Now they are actually dangerous. 

Regen, silver vulnerability and the Moon thing are fairly modern elements from modern TV. 

This is more similar to the old world monster stories. 

 As others pointed out, they're actually more dangerous in their humanoid form sniping with the bow. That is not very good when the point is supposed to be how dangerous and bestial they are transformed. Here now though? Not so much.

I mean the only thing that changed is that they are more tanky now and aren't immune to physical weapons anymore. Which I think is fine... why would they in they be immune in the first plce? I know that is a trope in in many werewolf fantasies, but it feels very random. It's not a ghost or magical being, it's just a wolfman. And silvered weapons still are better against it.

Or at the very least, Damage Reduction to Bashing, Slashing, Piercing for non-magical non-silvered weapons.

Or at the very least, Damage Reduction to Bashing, Slashing, Piercing for non-magical non-silvered weapons.

Quote from theron >>

Quote from TheOtherRyan >>

Quote from Megapope >>

Quote from TheOtherRyan >>

Quote from LuckiestLycan >>

My disappointment is Immeasurable and my day is ruined.

They did a lot right with this one, like: Darkvison, Monstrosity, large in hybrid form, higher AC, higher asi's, more damage, a bonus action transformation, and pack tactics is certainly neat.

But an extra 13 hp and +3 to AC does not make up for the lack of Immunity to non-sivered BPS. I was really hoping they were making the new werewolf like the Loup Garou with all these other changes, but they removed the immunity and DIDN'T GIVE THEM REGENERATION! 

Like, why???? Every flavour of Vampire gets it, Trolls get it, why don't Werewolves get it?

Edit: Not every flavour of Vampire gets it either, they've removed it from vampire & vampire spawn and didn't give it to the new ones. WHY? Revenant & Trolls kept it, so it's not like a dead ability, vampires and werewolves are both two of the supernatural creatures that thematically should get it! GAAAAAAAAAAA!

And I'm not a fan of giving Lycanthropes weapons they can use in hybrid form, it kinda just spoils the vibe of transforming into a rampaging blood thirsty monster if they just pick up a bow and calmly ping shots from a distance. And the fact the bow does more than the claws is a crime, like are they trying to encourage them to use a bow instead or what?

And tbh, they really should have buffed the Lycanthropes CR, we have vampires for like every cr but Lycanthropes are still stuck between like cr 2 and 5? (except the Loup Garou)

I'm just gonna keep using the Loup Garou from Van Richtens Guide to Ravenloft, and I'd suggest others do the same.

 To a few prior comments,

Self-healing abilities simply provide monsters with more hit points, so in keeping with this edition's convention of removing unnecessary language, those hit points have simply been factored into the monster's hit point total and AC instead (regen is calculated as lasting for three rounds per combat). In some monsters where regeneration is part of the monsters lore, it remains undisturbed, but that is not the case with werewolves. 

As other commentators have noted, shapeshifters' weakness to silver is now part of the silvered weapons themselves, rather than the shapeshifters' stat block (to increase readability of the stat blocks at a glance).

Regarding the use of weapons in hybrid form: the stat block indicates that they can be used not that they must be used. If you'd rather your Werewolves use Bite or Scratch instead, then do so.

You are certainly more than welcome to use the Loup Garou–it's an excellent monster! But the negativity here is totally unnecessary and unproductive. Rather than focus on things to dislike, look at what you can do with this stat block. It's CR 3, which means that many more players can encounter a Werewolf (and survive) than can do the same with a Loup Garou. Engage with things in good faith and at least try to enjoy them (and it's fine if you don't)!

 

 Nobody needs you running interference for Wizard's bad design my guy 

Replying 5 months after the fact just to make a personal attack is crazy. My explanations are there if you'd like to address them.

Out of sheer curiosity, is there a single thing in the new MM that you dislike? I will freely admit that I was overly critical on first release but frankly speaking you legitimately do seem like a paid defender for WOTC. Luckiest Lycan went out of his way to point out both the good and the bad, but you only focused on his negative comments and even told him to engage in good faith when he blatantly was speaking in good faith. You only post to defend criticism and tell everyone that we are engaging in bad faith, which to be fair some of us have, me included, but this is the place for comments and feedback. If all negativity is unnecessary and unproductive, am I to understand that everything is perfect and immaculate and that nothing could possibly be improved? Or is it just that we are only to comment good things, and keep any constructive criticism to ourselves? Several people making constructive criticism have made suggestions that were beneficial to many who read the comments, I didn't even remember the Loup Garu existed so him commenting was in fact very productive and while not necessary was certainly appreciated. To clarify this isn't meant as an attack, just honest curiosity about your opinion and if you yourself have anything you dislike or if you truly believe the book to be perfect as is.

In regards to your comments here, my response is that the silvered weapons description is not at all equal to them being immune to non-silvered weapons or to just having their regen turned off. This lycanthrope can be killed by anything, and based on the silvered weapons description it might not even be better than a regular weapon. It says

An alchemical process has bonded silver to this magic weapon. When you score a Critical Hit with it against a creature that is shape-shifted, the weapon deals one additional die of damage.

So, my question is which is the true form? It only deals additional damage against a creature that is shapeshifted, so would it not do additional damage if the lycan is in human form since they are not shifted? That is a massive change both to lore and to the mechanics and frankly speaking from a mathematical point of view why bother with the silvered weapons? Crits are not that common, and for the cost which at least in 2014 was at least 50g it is not worth it when the benefit is pretty minor. For the lycan this means they are arguably more dangerous as their humanoid form, because apparently, they don't have any weakness to silver anymore in their base form. Also their human weapons for some unexplainable reason are more powerful than any normal human, so their longbow and presumably great sword are just more dangerous than actually getting bitten by a large sized werewolf in monstrous form. Assuming that you double the damage of a great sword, which who knows since we don't actually have any guidelines for how monster gear works, it would be 4d6+3 which is 17, so just using a regular great sword would be much better than going full werewolf. In an actual fight to the death, not just trying to turn others who cannot fight back into werewolves, the werewolf does more damage as a bizarrely powerful humanoid who for some reason has amazing weapons that stop being amazing as soon as a player gets them, and doesn't have any weakness to silver. That is not a good design, these guys should be stronger in bestial form, that is the entire point of their lore, that they are stronger as a beast than a human. Fighting them transformed has always been more dangerous and terrifying

A werewolf is a savage predator. In its humanoid form, a werewolf has heightened senses, a fiery temper, and a tendency to eat rare meat. Its wolf form is a fearsome predator, but its hybrid form is more terrifying by far — a furred and well-muscled humanoid body topped by a ravening wolf’s head. A werewolf can wield weapons in hybrid form, though it prefers to tear foes apart with its powerful claws and bite. - the old 2014 description

This made sense back then because its bite and claws actually were more powerful than its weapons, but in this version that is not true, as I stated above if given a great sword and scaled to do double damage like the longbow does, then the bite and claw are a good bit weaker. And once again, they are only weak to a critical hit from a silver weapon if they transform, so as long as they don't transform and just stay humanoid they are not weak to silver at all, which has always been a key part of their lore. That weakness to silver has been used to detect a werewolf or other form of were creature in many myths, because even as a humanoid they were weaker to it.

Apologies for the late reply.

Put simply, no. There is nothing I don’t like about the 2024 materials. My first reaction to everything here was to imagine all the ways I could use it in a game or experience it as a player. Now, if you want to make a rhetorical point—yes, I probably could look through everything carefully and find specific things I would change for my group. But I don’t have to do that. And I won’t.

I prefer to just enjoy things.

If you want to provide constructive feedback, then do so. But you cannot cry foul when someone challenges that label, particularly when they are correct.