Ever the stalwart warrior of divine power, the Paladin returns in the 2024 Player’s Handbook with a new yet still familiar arsenal at their disposal. Lay on Hands and their signature smite features appear once more, but with a new look and refined wording alongside new features such as Faithful Steed and Weapon Mastery. Oh, and you can now smite with your fists!
In this article we’ll cover the highlights of the 2024 Paladin that you’ll find in the pages of the new Player’s Handbook. If you don’t see a feature covered, such as Aura of Protection, that means it is unchanged from the 2014 Paladin, or only saw very minor changes.
The 2024 Player’s Handbook is Now Available!
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2 |
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Channel Divinity |
3 |
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5 |
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9 |
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Aura of Courage |
10 |
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Radiant Strikes (previously Improved Divine Smite) |
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14 |
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19 |
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2024 Paladin Class Features Overview
Lay on Hands — Level 1
Formerly an action to use, the Paladin's Lay on Hands now only requires a Bonus Action, granting the class more versatility with options on their turn. This is a theme you’ll see throughout the class, as many features have been changed from an action to a Bonus Action.
Additionally, Lay on Hands can remove the Poisoned condition and can now be used on Constructs and Undead.
Spellcasting — Level 1
A big change from the 2014 Paladin is that the spellcasting feature is now accessible from level 1, with the number of spells you can prepare now a fixed number listed in the Paladin table. This opens up a lot more options for level 1 Paladins, especially given the new and improved smite spells.
Weapon Mastery — Level 1
Your first level of Paladin gets even more exciting with the addition of the Weapon Mastery feature, which grants access to a suite of special rules for the weapons you wield. You can select two weapons that you’re proficient with and unlock their mastery properties, and each Long Rest you can choose to change which two weapons this feature applies to.
To highlight this new option for Paladins, let’s take a look at the mastery properties for a signature Paladin weapon, the Longsword:
- Longsword (Sap): Any character wielding a Longsword while it’s their selected Weapon Mastery armament will be able to use the Sap mastery property. When you successfully hit a creature with an attack using a weapon with the Sap mastery property, its next attack roll before the start of your next turn has Disadvantage.
Fighting Style — Level 2
Fighting Styles have been adjusted now to be a special subtype of feat that any class can choose from if they have the Fighting Style class feature. Paladins can pick one of these feats, or alternatively, they can choose the Blessed Warrior option, which grants them two Cleric cantrips.
Paladin’s Smite — Level 2
Previously a dedicated feature in the 2014 Paladin and formerly known as Divine Smite, the level 2 Paladin Smite feature on the 2024 Paladin works a bit differently. Instead of granting you a smite feature directly, it gives you the Divine Smite spell as a permanently prepared spell.
This new spell works much like the 2014 Divine Smite class feature, with a couple of key differences. First, it can now be used on Unarmed Strikes, which is a relief for Paladins who want to sock monsters with a divine punch to the face. Second, it now requires a Bonus Action to use, which you take immediately after you hit a creature with an attack roll, bringing it mostly in line with the original Divine Smite's mechanics.
Paladin Subclass— Level 3
All four subclasses for the 2024 Paladin are returning options, but each one has had a small glow-up. All three 2014 Player’s Handbook subclasses return in new and improved form, with a fourth option familiar to anyone that has read Mythic Odysseys of Theros or Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything: the Oath of Glory.
- Oath of Devotion: Paladins who swear an Oath of Devotion will find their features lasting longer as Sacred Weapon and Holy Nimbus each now last 10 minutes instead of 1 minute. In addition to its longer duration, Holy Nimbus can also be used again by spending a level 5 spell slot, rather than just being once per Long Rest. They also have a new feature that replaces Purity of Spirit in the form of Smite of Protection, which grants cover to you and your allies within your aura when you cast Divine Smite. Finally, Oath of Devotion Paladins gets tweaked spells in the form of Shield of Faith and Aid, replacing Sanctuary and Lesser Restoration, respectively.
- Oath of Glory: Oath of Glory has had its Aura of Alacrity feature improved. Previously, it had a 5-foot radius, now it uses your Aura of Protection to determine who it affects. This use of Aura of Protection is something else you’ll see recurring throughout the 2024 Paladin and its subclasses, meaning better synergy between your class features. Oath of Glory Paladins can also enjoy a 1-hour duration on Peerless Athlete and access to a brand new Oath Spell called Yolande’s Regal Presence.
- Oath of the Ancients: One of the biggest upgrades to Oath of Ancients is to Undying Sentinel. Where the 2014 Oath of the Ancients Paladin would simply go to 1 Hit Point instead of 0, the 2024 version instantly regains a number of Hit Points equal to three times your Paladin level. Nature's Wrath also now affects each creature of your choice within 15 feet, and your targets must make a Strength saving throw instead of getting to choose between making a Strength or Dexterity saving throw. Elder Champion has also seen some love, now requiring a Bonus Action instead of an action, and can be refreshed with a level 5 spell slot.
- Oath of Vengeance: Carrying on the trend, Oath of Vengeance receives an action economy boost with Vow of Enmity no longer requiring an action and instead can be applied when you attack. It also has an increased range and can be transferred when the current target of your vow is reduced to 0 Hit Points. Relentless Avenger and Avenging Angel have also had boosts, with the former reducing the target's Speed to 0 and the latter being able to be refreshed with a level 5 spell slot.
Faithful Steed — Level 5
Paladins now always have a faithful steed on hand with the Find Steed spell always prepared from level 5 onwards. This feature also grants a single free casting of the spell once per day so you can summon your Otherworldly Steed. That’s right, your mount has had an upgrade too, with a brand new bespoke stat block for the 2024 Find Steed spell. The Otherworldly Steed is much better suited for combat and can even regain Hit Points whenever you receive magical healing.
Abjure Foes — Level 9
This new Paladin feature allows you to spend your Channel Divinity to target a number of creatures equal to your Charisma modifier and force them to make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, a creature is Frightened by you, and, while Frightened this way, is limited to only moving, taking an action, or a Bonus Action on their turn. It’s a very powerful way to control the battlefield, so if your idea of a Paladin features a control aspect, the 2024 version has you covered.
Restoring Touch — Level 14
Another new feature for the 2024 Paladin, Restoring Touch gives you an alternate use for your Lay on Hands points. You can now choose to remove one condition from a list of options and can even do this for multiple conditions if you spend enough Hit Points.
Epic Boon — Level 19
Previously a special reward found in the 2014 Dungeon Master’s Guide, Epic Boons have made their way over to the 2024 Player’s Handbook as a new type of feat with the prerequisite of being level 19+. While Paladins can take any Epic Boon, the recommended pick is the Boon of Truesight, which we’ll look at here:
- Boon of Truesight, Epic Boon Feat (Prerequisite: Level 19): Increase one of your ability scores by 1 up to a maximum of 30 and you gain Truesight out to a radius of 60 feet.
Take Your Oath
The 2024 Player's Handbook is now available on the D&D Beyond marketplace, which means it's time to set out on new adventures with fresh or familiar characters!
The 2024 Player's Handbook brings a new and improved Paladin to your tabletop armed and ready with a slew of exciting new features and quality of life changes. You can charge into battle astride your Otherworldly Steed, abjuring foes abound while your Aura of Protection drives back the forces of darkness.
We’re delighted to share with you the changes to fifth edition D&D that appear in the 2024 Player’s Handbook. Make sure to keep an eye out on D&D Beyond for more useful guides on using the wealth of new options, rules, and mechanics found in the 2024 Player's Handbook!
Davyd is a moderator for D&D Beyond. A Dungeon Master of over fifteen years, he enjoys Marvel movies, writing, and of course running D&D for his friends and family, including his daughter Willow (well, one day). The three of them live with their two cats Asker and Khatleesi in south of England.
This article was updated on August 12, 2024, to issue corrections or expand coverage for the following features and subclasses:
- Lay on Hands: Removed mention of Lay on Hands not affecting disease as disease is a depreciated mechanic.
- Weapon Mastery (Sap): Corrected terminology around Sap mastery property. Also, specified that the target has Disadvantage on its next attack roll (not attack) before your next turn.
- Paladin’s Smite: Changed wording to remove "can," as the Bonus Action to activate Paladin's Smite after hitting a creature with an attack roll is not optional.
- Channel Divinity: Added that Divine Sense now lasts 10 minutes.
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Posted Jun 21, 2024Lay on hands, many channel divinity options, and most transformation mechanics now all use bonus actions. This would be fine if it now also didn't take a bonus action to divine smite. I think limiting smite to once per turn is great for the game, but also making it use a bonus action is too much. Change it from being a spell back to a class ability, and limit it to once per turn when making a melee attack.
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Posted Jun 21, 2024Well said, thanks for shedding some clarity
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Posted Jun 22, 2024Are you using the playtest 7 Warlock with Pact of the Blade for these numbers? I assume you are because your non-smite damage is higher which is likely due to 2 extra attacks instead of 1. If you are it is WIDELY accepted to be massively over tuned. I fully expect it to be severely nerfed from what we last saw. I very much doubt Warlock will keep 3 attacks. It's also been hinted that they won't be getting weapon masteries like they did in the playtest. (Although they can take a feat for them). Warlock is on Tuesday so will have to wait and see.
You're also ignoring the flexibility gained by the changes to the smite spells. Sometimes it isn't just about doing damage. Look at the Rogue's new sneak attack options as an example.
IMHO Paladin smite needed a nerf. Too many times I've seen a Paladin single handedly win a boss fight in a single turn while the rest of the party spectates. Maybe the nerf was too much but we haven't seen the rest of the classes yet so it's too early to judge.
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Posted Jun 22, 2024Paladin smite needed a nerf. That nerf was simply, it should be once per turn. Making it a bonus action completely changes the entire nature of the ability. Most importantly, it makes Paladin characters less diverse in terms of what they can do, because any paladin who wants to smite is now penalized for giving themselves a reliable bonus action. It's not too early to judge that this makes the Paladin a less fun class to play to an unnecessary degree.
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Posted Jun 22, 2024EDIT: I'm not familiar with how this forum works. It seems replying doesn't actually tag the user or link to their post; only when you quote them, which I have to figure out how to tag properly. Until I fix that: these are all in reply to CharlieDrush.
EDIT2: I've linked my quotes directly.
Paladin has been getting away with murder for a very long time.
1. Smiting on every single hit adds a ton of UNBALANCABLE nova potential. Smite scales like it's a 1/turn big damage sink without a save or concentration, and yet with specific feats and more spell slots, it functioned more like a concentration-less Mark spell.
2. Monks have to use their bonus actions for extra damage. Barbarians need it for their Rage (the extra damage of which is paltry). Even Rogues, the example you use later in your post (and so many people are using), often have to spend their bonus action to generate the advantage they need for Sneak Attack. Without Nick, you need a BA for TWF.
No, they aren't, it's called being balanced. PAM adds a more consistent way to trigger reaction attacks, which is still more damage. If you miss your Extra Attacks, PAM provides a backup attack to still contribute. PAM also gives you a way to weaponize your bonus action when you DON'T want to spend spell slots. If the feat investment feels too heavy, you can take a Nick weapon and do TWF, and even take the TWF style, offering you comparable damage to PAM without even having to spend the bonus action. (Reminder: Paladins got access to all Fighting Style feats, so they can take TWF now.)
Because when you're in a shitty situation, I'd rather be able to make a couple attacks and teleport out of danger than do nothing at all. Hunter's Mark and Spiritual Weapon also provide reduced damage at smaller spell slot cost, making them great options for conserving resources at the cost of lower burst potential.
[EDIT3: I didn't need to be this condescending, I changed my opener]
Let me try explaining how the bonus action is required to become interesting and compelling with a pseudo-example.
My ally who isn't adjacent to me is low on HP, and there's a couple enemies surrounding us who've taken some damage this fight. Most of the time, I'm probably going to use my action to attack twice, and I have some choices for my bonus action. Here are some strategies:
1. I attack the one closest to me, in the hopes of killing it so that I don't provoke opportunity attacks when I then move to my ally to save him with Lay on Hands.
2. I attack the one closest to my ally, in the hope that it dies, thereby protecting my ally. I might want to smite to ensure it dies, since I don't know its exact HP, or if I'm low on spell slots, I might use PAM's bonus attack. I might attack once, kill it, and then decide I might be able to end this fight now (just in case the one adjacent to me tries to coup de grace my ally) by attacking the 2nd one with my remaining attack and then smiting or using PAM.
3. Depending on other conditions and what spells I have prepared, I might have a significantly more impactful option to cast with my action instead, such as Command: Betray (friendly fire on their own ally).
4. In a particularly deadly combat where I probably can't take either one down, I could provoke the attack (if I have enough HP), and simply hold my action to cast Revivify before the Rogue's turn (depends on the circumstances of enemy initiatives, and what my allies can do), then we can run away.
A tactical decision matrix like this can only exist so long as my decisions on my turn depend on both the uncertainty of the outcomes of my options (especially because of dice rolls) and the inability to do basically everything on my character sheet all at once on my turn. Going down might not even be particularly deadly because your DM avoids coup de grace behaviors and the enemies don't have significant multi-attacks (or their multi-attacks don't always target the same creature, it depends on how the DM runs the creature's intelligence and strategic ability).
[EDIT3: Further illustration] If you've ever played PF2e, you might see where I'm coming from (and if you haven't, I encourage you to do so). The 3-action economy and abilities which cost 0 to 3 actions alongside their Multiple Attack Penalty leads to highly dynamic, highly tactical turns where you feel like you have more options than you do actions. You might still be a striker, but you'll often still spend at least 1 of your actions trying to gain more damage, sometimes still debuffing in the process, similar to giving up an attack in 5e to knock prone and give your whole party melee attack advantage. It's this basis that's why I say if any of the options feel lackluster in the wake of Bonus-Action-Smites, you should buff those options (or buff smite's damage) so that your turn feels competitive, and you feel like taking that class has given you the benefit of not needing to take any particular feat.
Divine Smite does a lot more damage, is a better damage type, needs fewer conditions to use it, and only needs to be consumed when you need it. All of this flexibility and versatility should be accounted for in its power budget, just as how Rage provides a much smaller damage bonus and so only needs to be activated once as a setup ability (usually), while Flurry of Blows makes entire attacks (which has all kinds of other scalings) with its resource cost.
For the record, that's not what I said (this post sounds like it's a reply to my arguments despite not tagging me, but even if it's not, the clarity is still important).
This post is full of comments saying they will house rule and homebrew away these changes in one form or another, mostly so as to entirely revert it. My point was never "suck it up", it was to see the purpose of this design, to embrace it, and to fix it where it actually fails (for example, scaling too weakly on Paladin's half-caster chassis, or the other competitive options being too weak).
When I said "WOTC sucks at game balance", it was to point out that they will probably not achieve the desired balance under the pros of this schema, so you should fix it the way a more competent company would have made it in the first place, rather than discarding it; the point was NEVER to simply ACCEPT that WOTC sucks at their jobs.
My position that WOTC sucks at game balance is based on how most of their releases are exceptionally imbalanced compared to the content of said release as well as relative to past publications -- and because they update and balance the game at an exceptionally slow rate. Consider that this update is literally 10 years after the game came out, when free balance erratas are entirely feasible; but Hasbro is a greedy company, and so we don't get that.
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Posted Jun 22, 2024Making smite a spell is a big nerf:
I think this is too many downsides added, I think making it a bonus action to use is sort of valid, but disagree with it being a spell. I also think the "upside" of being able to divine smite with unarmed being fully rules compliant isn't that big of a victory since that's not a very hard sell for a home rule.
Curious to see what happens with existing smite spells - no longer worth since they do less damage then regular divine smite does unless they are changed. I think it would have made more sense to maybe specify that smite spells can't stack with divine smite. Sure, paladins smiting multiple times each turn deals a ton of damage, but that can be mitigated with several encounters per day, or enemies attacking from range.
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Posted Jun 22, 2024If you haven't seen the OneD&D UA documents, you should read them. They updated every smite spell dramatically. They're quite competitive options now. They made good changes: the BA activation from Divine Smite came from that document and was applied to all of those smite spells, concentration only applies for continuous effects (and even then, not always), QoL and damage improvements were made on ones like Searing Smite, and so on.
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Posted Jun 22, 2024Yes / No
Non-once per turn effects are unbalanced, but the 2014 Paladin wasn't in a position to break Divine Smite being a half caster limited to 2 attacks a round from level 5 to 20 (with select Paladin subclass options providing Haste for a 3rd attack from levels 9 to 20).
We could point at PAM / GWM feats opening the Bonus action up for an additional Divine Smite, but evidently, a massive chunk of 5e players don't even play games with feats available in them, and similarly, "Nova" builds are entirely at the DM's discretion because multiclass rules remain an optional rule.
Your DM effectively has total control whether or not Divine Smite can actually BE broken, as per the actual rules of the game, by a player.
Officer, I believe the killer was infact the DM all along, not the Paladin!
The 2014 Monk is mechanically the weakest class in the game (for much the same reason Paladin's Smite is a bad feature), and has been since 2014. If the 2014 Monk is the benchmark for what is balanced, everything needs to be nerfed into the ground, lol.
There are a number of 2024 class / subclass features that provide Extra-Damage that do not conflict with PAM / GWM builds, lol. The pretense that the 2024 Paladin to be "balanced" has to be saddled with a bad feature like "Paladin's Smite" which auto prepares the Divine Smite spell at level 2 (which a Paladin has access from level 1) - that allows for a once-per-day casting of 1st level Divine Smite (from 2 to level 20) is hilarious.
The changes to Divine Smite are either going to force 2 outcomes for a 2024 Paladin player: multiclass out of Paladin into Bard or Sorceror just to get the most value of Paladin's Smite (if they don't immediately multiclass out of Paladin at level 1) or pick up GWM / PAM and ignore thaf Paladin's Smite exists. Why you might ask? Because the cookie-cutter martial feats actually scale with extra-attack, proficiency and strength, and Paladin's Smite does not (half-caster progression is not going to cut it)... and your DM can't counterspell a natural 20 melee attack (they can however delete your a critical smite, lol).
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Posted Jun 22, 2024Honestly, even a straight-classed Paladin using Divine Smite was too strong. Keep in mind that it was always possible to use smite spells as well, compressing their nova potential even more. Just two 2nd-level Divine Smites (5th-level Paladin) will deal 6d8 damage in a single turn. If you had a bonus action attack, that's another 2d8 (1st-level slot) for 8d8 in a single turn on one enemy, and each one of the attacks that triggered it was like 1d6+ability damage (or some 1d10+ability hits and a 1d4+ability hit with PAM).
Ofc, it will scale with adventuring day length, but we also know most DMs don't have 6+ encounters (some of which are social encounters that expend resources).
We also both know that the majority of DMs and players enjoy the customization, build variety, and fantasy-fulfillment available through feats and multiclassing. The majority of characters, especially non-spellcasters, have very few and extremely simple options on their turn, every turn, that they do for the vast majority of character levels, with few additional character-build options or in-combat tactics.
Basically, nobody is going to want to play at a table with a DM that says, "we're going to play the most boring ruleset for 5e because otherwise, it's not very balanced", not when DMs are more easily inclined to balance through magic items or pulling a player aside to say "can we change this to that".
It's a solution that's not the solution anyone wants to put up with, and 5e's revision is alleviating a lot of that thus far (albeit not to my satisfaction).
And in a well-designed game, their values and interactivity are accounted for in their power budget, and will have similar sum-totals. Divine Smite was too strong with too much interactivity, so it needed to be nerfed. Giving you a bonus action that deals additional damage (which does still need adjustments to make multi-class vs single-classed builds more equal) is a strong feature that doesn't completely discount other options, but it does make them less required which leads to different build variety and tactical options.
And this is where my previous point is extremely important: WOTC sucks at balancing, this is closer to being balanced. If one is to improve WOTC's design with homebrew, then they shouldn't be homebrewing 2014 Paladin into the 2024 updates (because despite what WOTC said not to do, most people are just going to make 2024 characters with 2014 features anyway). Instead, it's better to add changes such as "The free Divine Smite is cast at the highest spell level for your Paladin level", or "The level 10 feature that adds free radiant damage also upcasts Divine Smite by 1 level for free" (or add it at a different, more appropriate level, as necessary).
There are no anti-synergies with Divine Smite and GWM (though I'm sure that's not what you meant).
PAM still provides an option for when you miss your Extra Attacks, without requiring a Fighting Style to get ability damage, and offers a much better trigger to more-reliably get reaction attacks (with a large-die weapon) which increases DPR a lot. It also gives you a way to deal decent damage when you don't want to expend resources. A 2nd-level smite does 3d8 (13.5) damage, PAM's bonus does 1d4+4 (6.5) at around the same level you'd get 2nd-level smites.
1. GWM is 1/turn damage, assuming it's at all similar to its OneD&D iteration. There is no scaling to be found there that is at all different from casting Divine Smite.
2. Counter-spelling a crit smite isn't unreasonable, but if we're considering parties (we should, 5e has gotten away with 'individual islands of DPR' for far too long), then there is high value to be found in taking out their counterspell so someone else can use a high-impact spell. That a DM might HOLD A REACTION (and waste it) just IN CASE you get a critical smite means your MERE PRESENCE has already improved the battlefield for the whole party.
3. If Counterspell resembles its OneD&D counterpart, you get a CON save, which you're pretty good at with your Aura class feature, and you have a lot more room to take War Caster or Resilient (Constitution) since you have a base feature that weaponizes your bonus action.
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Posted Jun 22, 2024Not sure how second result was reach, as mine didn't even reach above 100
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Posted Jun 22, 2024It was overpowered before, causing paladins to overshadow other players. D&D is about cooperation, not a single megalomaniacal hero winning all the time.
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Posted Jun 22, 2024yes i am using the PT 7 and yes i know that it was widely accepted that that warlock was overtuned. But it was also widely accepted that the itereation we got in PT was massively undertuned and they ignored it so it is safe to say, that they will ignore the Warlock part too ....
as for weapon masteries, they are something nice, but don't add anything noticeable damage-wise and since warlock can get it per feat ( if they got them removed ) its a non isssue and can be ignored.
but some more numbers to think about :
lets say a typical day ( per long rest ) has 5 encounters, each running for a total of 6 rounds each, with an lvl 11 paladin, lvl 11 warlock, lvl 5 paladin/6 Sorcerer
each uses a halberd +1, has his main stat maxed ( 2 ASI, 1x +2 str, 1x Polearm Mastery with +1 str, Warlock uses +2 chr, 1x Innovacation which gives him +1 chr, Lifedrinker, thirsting blade, pact of the blade, pact of the tome -> thats 5 out of his 7 availables )
1st: thirsting blade ( 2 extra attacks )
base dpR / Round Paladin Sorcadin Warlock
45 45 57
2md thirsting blade ( 1 extra attack )
base dpR / Round Paladin Sorcadin Warlock
45 45 42
Total dpR / Day ( using all spell slots for smithing ignoring counter, silence, magic immune )
Paladin: 44
Sorcadin : 46
Warlock : 49 / 64
now we add in the warlock is playing his / her class and uses one of his spell slots per short rest for Hex ( +3d6 dmg once per round )
Warlock : 60 / 75
so the Warlock has a +70% dpR over the Paladin with 2 Extra Attacks and a +36% dpR over the Paladin with 1 Extra-Attack
SorcaDin & Paladin are pretty the same
what nerfs the Paladin into the ground and makes it almost unplayable and not fun for players isn't the once per rounde Smite, this is something we can pretty much all agree on is a good thing they should have done.
- But what destroys the Paladin is making it a spell cast, which can be easy countered ( silence, counterspell, ... ) and use a bonus actions.
a very easy fix and what they should have done, if they are so on, making it a spell cast is removing the bonus action cost ..... then the numbers would be much closer together
Paladin : 49
Sorcadin : 52 dpR then, if the warlock still gets the 2 extra attacks its still not even close ....
lvl 20 :
20 Paladin : 51
20 Warlock : 69 / 86 , if using hex : 67 / 84
6 Paladin / 14 Sorcerer : 54
doesn't realy change anything ......
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Posted Jun 22, 2024it might have been OP i personally don't think so, because it was balanced vs. the number of spell slots a Paladin had available,
but if you go ahead and cut it down to just use it once / round that would bring it to compareable / balanced numbers,
the way they did it Paladin is not even close to a warlock and thats ignoring counterspell, silence, and all the other stuff as well as the spell casting the Warlock has at his disposal
anyone thinking this version is good, ( no offense meant ) doesn't know what he / she is talking about
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Posted Jun 22, 2024I still believe people get much, MUCH too hung up on the counterspell/silence argument.
Counterspell no longer auto-counters equal or lower level spells, allows a save (at which paladins tend to be decent at even if it's not their proficient ones) and does not even waste the spell slot that they would have used to smite. Plus, even if countered successfuly that still is one counterspell that will not be used against one of the paladin's full caster allies, who can most likely do much more efficient things with their spell slots than a paladin's smite.
Silence has been - at least at most of the tables I play at - a fairly rarely used spell. The fact that it is an immobile sphere also makes it fairly tricky to use. To protect oneself from a paladin's smite with silence, one would have to either also stand inside it or right at the outside border. In the latter case, the paladin will probably not have a hard time also leaving the sphere to position themself to attack without being silenced unless the combat area it is used in has a very particular setup (which would sound like the DM tailored the encounter to specifically screw over the paladin, which is okay to happen once in a while, but if they regularly do this, then the problem is not with silence). And in the former case - Silence will most of the time be cast by someone who also casts a lot of spells. And if they are standing in a silence sphere face to face with a paladin, the paladin will very likely be the more effective combatant of the two. Silence might stop smite, but it won't stop the sword/hammer/paladin's weapon of choice to the face.
So long story short, if with the new phb you find yourself constantly counterspelled or silenced as a paladin, it is highly likely that your DM hast it out for you, which is an entirely different problem from class design really.
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Posted Jun 22, 2024It's honestly disappointing- as both a player who likes playing Paladins and as a GM who has Paladins in my player group- that y'all would somehow fumble the bag This hard. You almost had something great here, but decided to make Paladins a joke by completely kneecapping the most fun aspect of playing a Paladin- smites.
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Posted Jun 22, 2024and now some more theory - crafting :) when does a Paladin loose dpR smiting instead of using the BA attack :
45 ( w/o smite ) vs 32 ( w smite ) = 13 -> thats in essence you need at least a lvl 3 spell slot to not loose dpr !!!!!!!
same goes for sorcadin :
updated dpR ( only using lvl 3 slots to smite now )
Paladin : 45 / Sorcadin : 46 / Warlock : 59 / 74
20th level : Paladin: 52 / Sorcadin : 55 / Warlock: 66 / 83
no smiting at all :
Paladin : 45 / Sorcadin : 45
20th Level :
Paladin: 51 / Sorcadin : 51
-> Result it doesn't matter if you smite or not, so in essence divine smite is now a completly useless feature
and now i'm waiting for the reponses that this is balanced and a good change
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Posted Jun 22, 2024Still means nothing until we ACTUALLY see the new Warlock on Tuesday. Everything is likely to change. Was the Paladin Nerfed; Yes. Was it too much; Maybe. Comparisons to a class you don't have all of the information on mean nothing. UA is historically over powered compared to the final release, you are making assumptions that are very likely incorrect.
Also like I said earlier it isn't all about damage. The Paladin can choose from any smite they have prepared and all of them do extras stuff at the cost of damage. Often that is more important than the damage itself. Searing smite for example is fantastic for stopping Trolls from regenerating as it does fire damage over two or more rounds. The Topple mastery can knock targets prone and this boost hit and crit chance which absolutely increases damage so weapon masteries do make a difference.
You are also ignoring everything else that makes Paladins great such as their Aura which is amazing and isn't changing from what I saw. Adding your Charisma Mod to Every save for not only the Paladin but any ally within 10' (eventually 30') is massive. Warlocks don't have anything like this. Even if the Warlock out damages the Paladin the Paladin still a fantastic class I would play in a heartbeat.
Finally if you and your group don't like the changes you can always house rule it. My DM & I both don't like Stat bonuses being tied to your background because it doesn't allow for as much role play and creativity with your back story. We've already decided in our games they won't be case. The Stat bonus can be picked freely.
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Posted Jun 22, 2024“Once per turn” was all they had to do with divine smite. How did they arrive at this convoluted mess?
Making it a bonus action, with the timing of a reaction that isn't a reaction, is a mess.
No smites on reaction attacks.
No attacks as a bonus action while smiting.
Is now targeted by counterspell.
Silence turns it off for extended periods.
Should be immediately errata’ed to “once per turn” language instead of bonus action reaction spell.
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Posted Jun 22, 2024100% agree, feel like someone ignored all the UA feedback, and community input, and just has something against the paladin class on their team over there, pushing some stupid video game nerf logic agenda.
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Posted Jun 22, 2024the divine smite change is maybe worse then every other change they proposed
so now you can only smite once a turn, can't use your bonus action for anything, like the other smite spells, or the change to the lay on hands feature. kills the barb/paladin multiclass since barb can't smite while it's raging now. can't smite on a reaction so mageslayer/polearm master is worthless now. and if they didn't cap the damage at a 4th level spell slot like the original feature multiclassing bard or sorc will allow you to actually smite with a 9th level slot.
this is not "mostly in line with the original Divine Smite's mechanic". this is heavily gimping the core reason to play the entire class