Quote from MSLabo102 >>

They did not have ANY info on customization - They're actively trying to deter us from homebrewing. The spirit caused OGL fiasco is still there.

 
You made this exact same post on another article. It was dead wrong on that article; it is dead wrong here as well. On the off chance someone reads your post and mistakenly thinks it reflects reality, I am going to copy my response:

This is patently and demonstrably false. There’s an entire section on creating your own creatures in the DMG.  Additionally, there plenty of information in the new Monster Manual on Homenrewing, including recommended hitpoint values, proficiency bonuses.

Wish we could 'upvote" posts.

Quote from Caerwyn_Glyndwr >>

Quote from MSLabo102 >>

They did not have ANY info on customization - They're actively trying to deter us from homebrewing. The spirit caused OGL fiasco is still there.

 
You made this exact same post on another article. It was dead wrong on that article; it is dead wrong here as well. On the off chance someone reads your post and mistakenly thinks it reflects reality, I am going to copy my response:

This is patently and demonstrably false. There’s an entire section on creating your own creatures in the DMG.  Additionally, there plenty of information in the new Monster Manual on Homenrewing, including recommended hitpoint values, proficiency bonuses.

 

 Could you kindly indicate where it is at, because if it is in the new DMG or MM for 2024 I would love to see it. Not being sarcastic I am honest to God hoping I just missed it. I cannot find anything that says any form of guideline aside from what the proficiency bonus of different CR is and that I can change type of damage dealt or add a handful of features, but nothing about building a new creature from the ground up or how armor class or damage should be at the different CRs. the DMG literally only has a section called "Minor Alterations" which is neat I guess but not at all what I need.

Quote from theron >>

Quote from Caerwyn_Glyndwr >>

Quote from MSLabo102 >>

They did not have ANY info on customization - They're actively trying to deter us from homebrewing. The spirit caused OGL fiasco is still there.

 
You made this exact same post on another article. It was dead wrong on that article; it is dead wrong here as well. On the off chance someone reads your post and mistakenly thinks it reflects reality, I am going to copy my response:

This is patently and demonstrably false. There’s an entire section on creating your own creatures in the DMG.  Additionally, there plenty of information in the new Monster Manual on Homenrewing, including recommended hitpoint values, proficiency bonuses.

 

 Could you kindly indicate where it is at, because if it is in the new DMG or MM for 2024 I would love to see it. Not being sarcastic I am honest to God hoping I just missed it. I cannot find anything that says any form of guideline aside from what the proficiency bonus of different CR is and that I can change type of damage dealt or add a handful of features, but nothing about building a new creature from the ground up or how armor class or damage should be at the different CRs. the DMG literally only has a section called "Minor Alterations" which is neat I guess but not at all what I need.

Those are the relevant sections - and together they do provide everything you need.  The Monster Manual provides recommended hitpoints; the minor alteration section of the DMG recommends using another monster of the same CR's ability scores; the Monster Manual provides the proficiency bonus. From that information, you can derive everything else you need to homebrew a monster of an appropriate CR - ability scores and proficiency bonus define skills, attacks, and saves; hitpoints govern hitpoints.  Everything else you can build around that--what the abilities do, what the powers are, etc. All of that requires something Wizards cannot really teach in a book--imagination--though, they try by explicitly recommending folks look at a bunch of monsters for inspiration as they learn how to design abilities.  

I do think the "minor alterations" section is a bit mislabeled and should simply be under the "creating a monster" heading.  The subheading is clearly is confusing you and I expect others.  After all, as you can stack multiple minor alterations, or make some of the more major substitutions it listed, to completely change a monster in major ways.  Still, at its core, it is a fine starter guide on how to create your own monster using an existing something as a template and then completely change it from there.

Now, might you want more information beyond that?  Sure.  I would not mind having a bit more information as well--though, I think Wizards knows full well they get diminishing returns as a lot of the "create a balanced monster" comes down to player skill in ways they cannot explain in a book. But saying there are no rules, and trying to push some kind of conspiracy, as the poster above did?  There is absolutely no merit to that claim. 

Quote from Caerwyn_Glyndwr >>

Quote from theron >>

Quote from Caerwyn_Glyndwr >>

Quote from MSLabo102 >>

They did not have ANY info on customization - They're actively trying to deter us from homebrewing. The spirit caused OGL fiasco is still there.

 
You made this exact same post on another article. It was dead wrong on that article; it is dead wrong here as well. On the off chance someone reads your post and mistakenly thinks it reflects reality, I am going to copy my response:

This is patently and demonstrably false. There’s an entire section on creating your own creatures in the DMG.  Additionally, there plenty of information in the new Monster Manual on Homenrewing, including recommended hitpoint values, proficiency bonuses.

 

 Could you kindly indicate where it is at, because if it is in the new DMG or MM for 2024 I would love to see it. Not being sarcastic I am honest to God hoping I just missed it. I cannot find anything that says any form of guideline aside from what the proficiency bonus of different CR is and that I can change type of damage dealt or add a handful of features, but nothing about building a new creature from the ground up or how armor class or damage should be at the different CRs. the DMG literally only has a section called "Minor Alterations" which is neat I guess but not at all what I need.

 

Those are the relevant sections - and together they do provide everything you need.  The Monster Manual provides recommended hitpoints; the minor alteration section of the DMG recommends using another monster of the same CR's ability scores; the Monster Manual provides the proficiency bonus. From that information, you can derive everything else you need to homebrew a monster of an appropriate CR - ability scores and proficiency bonus define skills, attacks, and saves; hitpoints govern hitpoints.  Everything else you can build around that--what the abilities do, what the powers are, etc. All of that requires something Wizards cannot really teach in a book--imagination--though, they try by explicitly recommending folks look at a bunch of monsters for inspiration as they learn how to design abilities.  

I do think the "minor alterations" section is a bit mislabeled and should simply be under the "creating a monster" heading.  The subheading is clearly is confusing you and I expect others.  After all, as you can stack multiple minor alterations, or make some of the more major substitutions it listed, to completely change a monster in major ways.  Still, at its core, it is a fine starter guide on how to create your own monster using an existing something as a template and then completely change it from there.

 Ummm it literally doesn't give me a recommended hit point amount though. the Creating a creature section actually says to not change the hit points or ac or anything impactful because that would change the CR. Let's say I want to make a CR9 version of the mage or just any CR9 spell caster, where do I go to find out what average damage, AC, and HP should be for a CR9? all that is currently in there just helps me customize an already existing monster. I want to literally create from scratch, and nothing in there is helpful for that. If i need to make a 2024 version of Demigorgon or Orcus to play OoTA, how do I bring him up to the new standard? Not sure the minor alterations section can help me with CR12+ at all really. I believe this is what the original poster is complaining about, and it is a very common complaint from what I can see. Not world ending by any means and I don't think its a specific attack on homebrewing, but it is incredibly annoying.

Anyone else think the index format is a little wonky?  As an example each type of elemental, dragon and and giant is its own entry. Humanoids still seem to have master headings and sub-headings.

Honestly most people I know that DM use DND beyond now a days, so they just filter things with that. There is no one size fits all for a book, so I don't really think its that bad at all the way it is formatted.

Quote from Caerwyn_Glyndwr >>

Quote from theron >>

Quote from Caerwyn_Glyndwr >>

Quote from MSLabo102 >>

They did not have ANY info on customization - They're actively trying to deter us from homebrewing. The spirit caused OGL fiasco is still there.

 
You made this exact same post on another article. It was dead wrong on that article; it is dead wrong here as well. On the off chance someone reads your post and mistakenly thinks it reflects reality, I am going to copy my response:

This is patently and demonstrably false. There’s an entire section on creating your own creatures in the DMG.  Additionally, there plenty of information in the new Monster Manual on Homenrewing, including recommended hitpoint values, proficiency bonuses.

 

 Could you kindly indicate where it is at, because if it is in the new DMG or MM for 2024 I would love to see it. Not being sarcastic I am honest to God hoping I just missed it. I cannot find anything that says any form of guideline aside from what the proficiency bonus of different CR is and that I can change type of damage dealt or add a handful of features, but nothing about building a new creature from the ground up or how armor class or damage should be at the different CRs. the DMG literally only has a section called "Minor Alterations" which is neat I guess but not at all what I need.

 

Those are the relevant sections - and together they do provide everything you need.  The Monster Manual provides recommended hitpoints; the minor alteration section of the DMG recommends using another monster of the same CR's ability scores; the Monster Manual provides the proficiency bonus. From that information, you can derive everything else you need to homebrew a monster of an appropriate CR - ability scores and proficiency bonus define skills, attacks, and saves; hitpoints govern hitpoints.  Everything else you can build around that--what the abilities do, what the powers are, etc. All of that requires something Wizards cannot really teach in a book--imagination--though, they try by explicitly recommending folks look at a bunch of monsters for inspiration as they learn how to design abilities.  

I do think the "minor alterations" section is a bit mislabeled and should simply be under the "creating a monster" heading.  The subheading is clearly is confusing you and I expect others.  After all, as you can stack multiple minor alterations, or make some of the more major substitutions it listed, to completely change a monster in major ways.  Still, at its core, it is a fine starter guide on how to create your own monster using an existing something as a template and then completely change it from there.

Now, might you want more information beyond that?  Sure.  I would not mind having a bit more information as well--though, I think Wizards knows full well they get diminishing returns as a lot of the "create a balanced monster" comes down to player skill in ways they cannot explain in a book. But saying there are no rules, and trying to push some kind of conspiracy, as the poster above did?  There is absolutely no merit to that claim. 

My guy, it is so easy to post links:

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/dmg-2024/dms-toolbox#CreatingaCreature

But looking it over, the others seem right. There's very little here about monster creation. It's mostly minor alterations to match whatever flavoring you want. But that's not 'creation'. I fail to see how you've addressed their concerns.

So what they have good stuff to have, and I get a basic table won't do well for things like HP, cause making a monster is complex. But they offer zero guidance. No HP ranges. No explanation of why determining an appropriate HP is complexes. No pitfalls to watch out for. It is disappointing. I want the book to help me think like the designers.

Quote from Solim >>

Quote from Caerwyn_Glyndwr >>

Quote from theron >>

Quote from Caerwyn_Glyndwr >>

Quote from MSLabo102 >>

They did not have ANY info on customization - They're actively trying to deter us from homebrewing. The spirit caused OGL fiasco is still there.

 
You made this exact same post on another article. It was dead wrong on that article; it is dead wrong here as well. On the off chance someone reads your post and mistakenly thinks it reflects reality, I am going to copy my response:

This is patently and demonstrably false. There’s an entire section on creating your own creatures in the DMG.  Additionally, there plenty of information in the new Monster Manual on Homenrewing, including recommended hitpoint values, proficiency bonuses.

 

 Could you kindly indicate where it is at, because if it is in the new DMG or MM for 2024 I would love to see it. Not being sarcastic I am honest to God hoping I just missed it. I cannot find anything that says any form of guideline aside from what the proficiency bonus of different CR is and that I can change type of damage dealt or add a handful of features, but nothing about building a new creature from the ground up or how armor class or damage should be at the different CRs. the DMG literally only has a section called "Minor Alterations" which is neat I guess but not at all what I need.

 

Those are the relevant sections - and together they do provide everything you need.  The Monster Manual provides recommended hitpoints; the minor alteration section of the DMG recommends using another monster of the same CR's ability scores; the Monster Manual provides the proficiency bonus. From that information, you can derive everything else you need to homebrew a monster of an appropriate CR - ability scores and proficiency bonus define skills, attacks, and saves; hitpoints govern hitpoints.  Everything else you can build around that--what the abilities do, what the powers are, etc. All of that requires something Wizards cannot really teach in a book--imagination--though, they try by explicitly recommending folks look at a bunch of monsters for inspiration as they learn how to design abilities.  

I do think the "minor alterations" section is a bit mislabeled and should simply be under the "creating a monster" heading.  The subheading is clearly is confusing you and I expect others.  After all, as you can stack multiple minor alterations, or make some of the more major substitutions it listed, to completely change a monster in major ways.  Still, at its core, it is a fine starter guide on how to create your own monster using an existing something as a template and then completely change it from there.

Now, might you want more information beyond that?  Sure.  I would not mind having a bit more information as well--though, I think Wizards knows full well they get diminishing returns as a lot of the "create a balanced monster" comes down to player skill in ways they cannot explain in a book. But saying there are no rules, and trying to push some kind of conspiracy, as the poster above did?  There is absolutely no merit to that claim. 

 

My guy, it is so easy to post links:

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/dmg-2024/dms-toolbox#CreatingaCreature

But looking it over, the others seem right. There's very little here about monster creation. It's mostly minor alterations to match whatever flavoring you want. But that's not 'creation'. I fail to see how you've addressed their concerns.

So what they have good stuff to have, and I get a basic table won't do well for things like HP, cause making a monster is complex. But they offer zero guidance. No ranges. No explanation of why determining an appropriate HP is complexes. No pitfalls to watch out for. It is disappointing. I don't need a book to tell me how to put make up on a zombie to make it an ancient zombie. I need a book to help me think like the designers.

 Thank you for summing it up far more effectively than I did. Much more eloquent, and yeah thinking like the designers is what we need. Or at least just a chart with a basic average list like we got in 2014. Flavor has always been free, having a whole section that tells me I can make something smarter is useless. I want to know how to create from the mechanical standpoint not the aesthetics.

Quote from theron >>

 Ummm it literally doesn't give me a recommended hit point amount though. the Creating a creature section actually says to not change the hit points or ac or anything impactful because that would change the CR. Let's say I want to make a CR9 version of the mage or just any CR9 spell caster, where do I go to find out what average damage, AC, and HP should be for a CR9? all that is currently in there just helps me customize an already existing monster. I want to literally create from scratch, and nothing in there is helpful for that. If i need to make a 2024 version of Demigorgon or Orcus to play OoTA, how do I bring him up to the new standard? Not sure the minor alterations section can help me with CR12+ at all really. I believe this is what the original poster is complaining about, and it is a very common complaint from what I can see. Not world ending by any means and I don't think its a specific attack on homebrewing, but it is incredibly annoying.

 You want to create something completely from scratch and you want WotC to tell you how to do that?

Quote from Erik_Soong >>

Quote from theron >>

 Ummm it literally doesn't give me a recommended hit point amount though. the Creating a creature section actually says to not change the hit points or ac or anything impactful because that would change the CR. Let's say I want to make a CR9 version of the mage or just any CR9 spell caster, where do I go to find out what average damage, AC, and HP should be for a CR9? all that is currently in there just helps me customize an already existing monster. I want to literally create from scratch, and nothing in there is helpful for that. If i need to make a 2024 version of Demigorgon or Orcus to play OoTA, how do I bring him up to the new standard? Not sure the minor alterations section can help me with CR12+ at all really. I believe this is what the original poster is complaining about, and it is a very common complaint from what I can see. Not world ending by any means and I don't think its a specific attack on homebrewing, but it is incredibly annoying.

 You want to create something completely from scratch and you want WotC to tell you how to do that?

 They did it in 2014. I just want to know average HP, AC, and Damage. Not asking for anything more complex then a freaking 1 page chart. As of right now all I know is that if its over CR15 it should have sky high initiative with expertise, average damage is somewhere between 0 and 200, HP is probably between 10 and 300, and AC is between 13 and 20. 

Make no mistake I would love a full section to help understand the designer's mindset and how they do things, but this is WOTC and I can't expect something actually useful like that. So I will settle for a 1 page chart.

As I already said, recommended HP is in the Monster Manual.  Right there in the "Parts of a Stat Block" section, conveniently labeled "Hit Points."  Both theron and Solim are incorrect in their assertion there is no guidance for HP or HP ranges provided.

HP is a function of two different elements - the CR of a monster and its size category.  Per the rules explicitly included in the Monster Manual, you use a Monster's Hit dice (awarded for each CR) and then CR times Con modifier to get the Hitpoints.  Or, to write it out in formula versions:

If you want rolled HP: [CR]d[Hit die size] + [CR]*[Con Modifier] = monster HP.

If you want an average: [CR] * [average dice roll on hit die] + [CR]*[Con Modifier] = average monster HP.

If you want a range: [CR] + [CR]*[Con Modifier] = minimum HP; [CR] * [Maximum roll on hit die] + [CR]*[Con Modifier] = maximum HP.

Again, all of this is spelled out in the Monster Manual - any statement that there is no guidance on HP is an error. 

Quote from Caerwyn_Glyndwr >>

As I already said, recommended HP is in the Monster Manual.  Right there in the "Parts of a Stat Block" section, conveniently labeled "Hit Points."  Both theron and Solim are incorrect in their assertion there is no guidance for HP or HP ranges provided.

HP is a function of two different elements - the CR of a monster and its size category.  Per the rules explicitly included in the Monster Manual, you use a Monster's Hit dice (awarded for each CR) and then CR times Con modifier to get the Hitpoints.  Or, to write it out in formula versions:

If you want rolled HP: [CR]d[Hit die size] + [CR]*[Con Modifier] = monster HP.

If you want an average: [CR] * [average dice roll on hit die] + [CR]*[Con Modifier] = average monster HP.

If you want a range: [CR] + [CR]*[Con Modifier] = minimum HP; [CR] * [Maximum roll on hit die] + [CR]*[Con Modifier] = maximum HP.

Again, all of this is spelled out in the Monster Manual - any statement that there is no guidance on HP is an error. 

 

 fantastic, according to this lets use the archmage a CR12 medium creature. average HP should be 12*4.5 + 12*1 = 66. Yeah somehow that doesn't seem correct for the average since they got 170HP. Lets try to make a range shall we. 12+12*1 = 24 thats its minimum HP, 12*8+12*1 = 104 that is its maximum if I used these. So if that is their method then they suck at math because somehow their average was 170 but by following their formula it should be 66.....

Also I love that you still haven't answered damage or AC average amounts.

EDIT*: just as a quick test in case it is just that it doesn't work for humanoids that were originally NPC stat blocks i tested on the erinyes, doesn't work for them either. It doesn't add up correctly for the CR13 Nalfeshnee either. Soooo yeah that clearly isn't the correct formula.

Quote from theron >>

 They did it in 2014. I just want to know average HP, AC, and Damage. Not asking for anything more complex then a freaking 1 page chart. As of right now all I know is that if its over CR15 it should have sky high initiative with expertise, average damage is somewhere between 0 and 200, HP is probably between 10 and 300, and AC is between 13 and 20. 

Make no mistake I would love a full section to help understand the designer's mindset and how they do things, but this is WOTC and I can't expect something actually useful like that. So I will settle for a 1 page chart.

 They also said in the 2014 DMG that you can add however many hit dice you want to a creature. Their own table didn't fit many, if not most of their official creatures. Maybe they took that out because it was virtually useless. The 2024 rules give you what you need and the freedom to do it.

Quote from theron >>

 fantastic, according to this lets use the archmage a CR12 medium creature. average HP should be 12*4.5 + 12*1 = 66. Yeah somehow that doesn't seem correct for the average since they got 170HP. Lets try to make a range shall we. 12+12*1 = 24 thats its minimum HP, 12*8+12*1 = 104 that is its maximum if I used these. So if that is their method then they suck at math because somehow their average was 170 but by following their formula it should be 66.....

Also I love that you still haven't answered damage or AC average amounts.

EDIT*: just as a quick test in case it is just that it doesn't work for humanoids that were originally NPC stat blocks i tested on the erinyes, doesn't work for them either. It doesn't add up correctly for the CR13 Nalfeshnee either. Soooo yeah that clearly isn't the correct formula.

 Amusingly, you demonstrate perfectly why the chart in the 2014 DMG is useless. Look at any dragon from the 2014 MM. Or the mimic. Or the beholder. Staples of the game and none of them fit within that DMG chart.

You are also doing the math wrong. Using the archmage, they have 31 hit dice, and as a medium creature, they get a d8, which gives 4.5 HP per dice. They also have a con modifier of 1.

So the math goes 31x4.5 = 139.5. Then you multiply the modifier by the hit dice, which is 31x1 = 31. Then add them together. 139.5+31. We round down and get 170.

Quote from Erik_Soong >>

Quote from theron >>

 They did it in 2014. I just want to know average HP, AC, and Damage. Not asking for anything more complex then a freaking 1 page chart. As of right now all I know is that if its over CR15 it should have sky high initiative with expertise, average damage is somewhere between 0 and 200, HP is probably between 10 and 300, and AC is between 13 and 20. 

Make no mistake I would love a full section to help understand the designer's mindset and how they do things, but this is WOTC and I can't expect something actually useful like that. So I will settle for a 1 page chart.

 They also said in the 2014 DMG that you can add however many hit dice you want to a creature. Their own table didn't fit many, if not most of their official creatures. Maybe they took that out because it was virtually useless. The 2024 rules give you what you need and the freedom to do it.

Quote from theron >>

 fantastic, according to this lets use the archmage a CR12 medium creature. average HP should be 12*4.5 + 12*1 = 66. Yeah somehow that doesn't seem correct for the average since they got 170HP. Lets try to make a range shall we. 12+12*1 = 24 thats its minimum HP, 12*8+12*1 = 104 that is its maximum if I used these. So if that is their method then they suck at math because somehow their average was 170 but by following their formula it should be 66.....

Also I love that you still haven't answered damage or AC average amounts.

EDIT*: just as a quick test in case it is just that it doesn't work for humanoids that were originally NPC stat blocks i tested on the erinyes, doesn't work for them either. It doesn't add up correctly for the CR13 Nalfeshnee either. Soooo yeah that clearly isn't the correct formula.

 Amusingly, you demonstrate perfectly why the chart in the 2014 DMG is useless. Look at any dragon from the 2014 MM. Or the mimic. Or the beholder. Staples of the game and none of them fit within that DMG chart.

You are also doing the math wrong. Using the archmage, they have 31 hit dice, and as a medium creature, they get a d8, which gives 4.5 HP per dice. They also have a con modifier of 1.

So the math goes 31x4.5 = 139.5. Then you multiply the modifier by the hit dice, which is 31x1 = 31. Then add them together. 139.5+31. We round down and get 170.

 How do you know how many hit die it has? My question was about making from scratch a monster, I simply used archmage as an example that if I used only what he posted, it would work at all. Archmage has 31 hit die, why? no one knows, its not about CR because archpriest has 24 and is same size and CR, Erinyes is 21 hit die and again same size and CR. Your math was entirely correct, but that is not the math that is actually give to me in the above post. the post said 

If you want an average: [CR] * [average dice roll on hit die] + [CR]*[Con Modifier] = average monster HP.

that is exactly what I did. This does not talk about how to figure out how many hit dice to give. So please tell me, if I am making my own creature how do I know the amount of Hit Dice, or should I just say F it and give it 90d6 for the lols. What should average damage be? how about AC? I know the 2014 chart sucked, but it was at least a starting point. the book literally just says 

Armor Class

A monster’s Armor Class (AC) includes its natural armor, Dexterity, gear, and other defenses. See the Player’s Handbook for information on Armor Class.

or in the create a creature section it just says not to change the AC, which is weird since if I am making it myself it doesn't yet have an AC to change. Again, I know the chart from 2014 was super flawed and borderline pointless for health and damage, but AC and Hit bonus were actually pretty accurate and useful. honestly even with damage I just looked at 3-4 CR higher than what I was making and used that since it was about accurate with how power creep worked. Now I just don't have anything at all. And actually, most of the game did fit the 2014 chart if you averaged their defense and offense, not all mind you but most did fit the chart. The bigger issue is that the chart itself was poorly calculated and way underpowered.

If the chart is useless then give us their metric for calculating CR. How do they know the Beast Lord is CR20? its brand new so how did they come to that conclusion? Or the blob of annihilation how did they come to the conclusion it was CR23? they have to have some sort of system or chart that they could have copy and pasted into the book.

Quote from theron>>

Quote from Erik_Soong>>

 They also said in the 2014 DMG that you can add however many hit dice you want to a creature.

 How do you know how many hit die it has? My question was about making from scratch a monster, I simply used archmage as an example that if I used only what he posted, it would work at all. Archmage has 31 hit die, why? no one knows, its not about CR because archpriest has 24 and is same size and CR, Erinyes is 21 hit die and again same size and CR.

 Did you miss that part? They don't say because it can be however many you need, if you are making a creature from scratch.

Quote from Erik_Soong >>

Quote from theron>>

Quote from Erik_Soong>>

 They also said in the 2014 DMG that you can add however many hit dice you want to a creature.

 How do you know how many hit die it has? My question was about making from scratch a monster, I simply used archmage as an example that if I used only what he posted, it would work at all. Archmage has 31 hit die, why? no one knows, its not about CR because archpriest has 24 and is same size and CR, Erinyes is 21 hit die and again same size and CR.

 Did you miss that part? They don't say because it can be however many you need, if you are making a creature from scratch.

Oh geez thats great advice. So my CR12 clearly needs 89d6 I guess, because apparently their advice is the exact same as just not having any advice at all. The 2014 book said give as many hit dice as needed, because it had a chart for you to see what the end number is. I no longer have an updated chart so that advice no longer works. If I wanted to be told to just figure it out yourself, I wouldn't have bothered buying a book in hopes of having some advice. Also, still waiting for somebody to give an answer on average Damage. or is the answer "just wing it, hope it doesn't TPK for being horribly broken but if so, just fudge dice I guess"? Creating monsters and guidance for homebrew was a massive part of the original books in 2014, so it is not unrealistic for that same guidance to have been in these books. They have a chart for average Spell damage in the DMG based on level, and that thing clearly doesn't line up with most published spells, so why include it and not the chart for monsters? They also gave us a chart for building our own traps, and even a small chart for building our own magic items. So why not monsters? I find it hard to give the benefit of the doubt for anything other than intentionally being a prick when the title of the section is "Creating Creatures" and immediately following that is only the subheading of "Minor Alterations". Like be honest and say you have nothing in here to help create your own homebrew monsters. If a DM needed a book to tell them they have the right to change the damage type and appearance of a creature, then they are going to have one hell of a time DMing.

Now again I will ask, does anyone have literally anything at all to tell me what average Damage should be for CR15? I gave up on anything else, but damage is something that is kind of important to scale correctly or at least in the right ball park.

Quote from theron >>

Oh geez thats great advice. So my CR12 clearly needs 89d6 I guess, because apparently their advice is the exact same as just not having any advice at all.

[screed]

Now again I will ask, does anyone have literally anything at all to tell me what average Damage should be for CR15? I gave up on anything else, but damage is something that is kind of important to scale correctly or at least in the right ball park.

 It is virtually impossible to cater to every table with individual needs. You have what you need for general ideas, right before your eyes for every creature type at practically every tier of play. You can see that a CR12 archmage has 31 hit dice and the approximate HP, AC, spells, etc. If you want to make something different, but a humanoid caster at about the same level, you have the template already.

If you want something that fits no template that exists in a book with 300+ examples, but still want a template given to you that spoon feeds you creatures, wait for another monster manual I guess. Maybe 300 more examples will provide you with enough guidance to finally create something on your own.

A chart was quite literally universal, so no they did actually cater to everyone even if in the most generic way possible. You are correct, you will never cater to every single table, so you give them the formula to figure it out themselves, kind of like they did with spells. I am not asking for something to be created, they 100% have a formula they use, and could have easily added it, and made the decision not to. To my knowledge there are no casters in the book between CR13-CR20 aside from the very bizarre half caster half I am not sure what it is Vampire Umbral Lord. So it would be great if I had an average damage for all CR17 monsters, then just add a bit since its a caster and subject a bit from average health to balance out and tada, a relatively balanced CR17 caster. You know, kind of like we were meant to do with the original chart. I have no desire for an entire damn template, I just want to know average damage, information which they literally had to have in order to create anything new. 

I think the worst ones are the third-party creators and people like me who homebrew a ton and frequently have others DM using my own creations. Balancing has always been a challenge without first playtesting but at least the chart was a starting point. Dungeon Dudes who make the Drakkenheim series specifically said it's a pain in the ass to balance their creations in their books, which you can buy on this site, with the new monsters without having the chart. It's not impossible, but its far more tedious and time consuming and just a general annoyance that shouldn't exist. Ghost fire games and several others have all said the same thing, the complaint is not unreasonable and is echoed by many creators. Matt Colville might be the funniest one because his just straight up don't match up at all, his CR19 creature is meant to solo fight a party of level 19s, whereas in the new Monster Manual a party of level 20s should be able to fight 4 liches each CR21 at once as just a hard encounter. Having the chart makes issues like that a lot less likely as we can all have a rough estimate of what the end result should look like. I don't want a template, Just an updated chart.

EDIT* I realize it sounds like I hate the books and I should clarify, I do not hate the new MM at all, in fact I love some of the things it has done. The fact that my biggest complaint is the lack of the chart and my great annoyance at the lack of armor distinction between natural, plate, shield, etc means that I have no other real complaints. The new creatures are amazing, I love the variety and finally getting high CR plants like Gulthias Blight and a Legendary ooze is amazing alongside more high level NPC stat blocks like pirate admiral and such. This is a great book, and definitely worth its price for what it is meant to do, If anything my complaint is the DMG not the MM.

To skip to the end of the ridiculous debate preceding this comment, the 2014 Dungeon Master's Guide contained a section (10 pages long!) about creating a monster that included a chart showing the expected hit point totals, damage outputs, attack bonus, AC, and spell save DC for monsters of CR from 0-30, with detailed instructions on how its attack bonus influences it effective damage per round, and how its armor class, saving throw bonuses, and resistances affect its effective hit point total. It even included a 2-page list of features like Legendary Resistance, Pack Tactics, and Regeneration, detailing how they affect the monsters offensive or defensive rating! 

The 2024 Dungeon Master's Guide suggest a number of ways to modify an existing creature, as long as you don't change its hit points or damage output. The 2024 Monster Manual mentions equipping a monster with additional gear, but specifically says to beware of giving a monster items that might alter the monster’s Challenge Rating." No actual information about the relation between CR and a monster's attributes is given (not even that a creature has a number of hit dice equal to its CR, as one previous commenter seems to have imagined it says).

The writers either have a method for calculating a creature's CR based on its attributes and features, or they don't. They did 10 years ago, so I can't imagine that they don't now. Why then have they not included it? Is it because we already have that section in the previous DMG? If the new one is supposed to replace the old (and much of it does!) then this couldn't be. Is it because they aren't done laying it out yet and we'll get it in the next book, like when Xanathar's Guide to Everything told us about Major and Minor Magic Items (a distinction that the DMG already recognized but did not name openly)? Maybe. If they have it, but they're just not giving it to us on purpose? I don't like that.