"The target's level if it does not have a challenge rating" was great wording when the only creatures in the game without a challenge rating were player characters. But now there are spells that can create potentially permanent creatures that have neither a challenge rating nor an level (a spell level maybe), spells like find steed, summon [creature type] etc

Quote from ArtificeMeal >>

"The target's level if it does not have a challenge rating" was great wording when the only creatures in the game without a challenge rating were player characters. But now there are spells that can create potentially permanent creatures that have neither a challenge rating nor an level (a spell level maybe), spells like find steed, summon [creature type] etc

I think that's intentional; it seems pretty reasonable to want to restrict things like that from being polymorphed.

You attempt to transform a creature that you can see ...

Does that meant that you can't target yourself anymore?

The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or shape-shift into Beast form for the duration

Does an ally (or yourself) NEED to make a Wisdom save?  Based on the wording, it seems like they HAVE to make the save in order to transform.

Quote from Jabbamonkey >>

The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or shape-shift into Beast form for the duration

Does an ally (or yourself) NEED to make a Wisdom save?  Based on the wording, it seems like they HAVE to make the save in order to transform.

 

 The target makes a saving throw and is transformed if they fail. So an ally (or another willing participant) can make the throw but anybody can also choose to fail a saving throw.

So the ally can simply let themselves be transformed. The saving throw happens but the target chooses to fail, so no dice rollling is needed and the process is streamlined.

Quote from Jabbamonkey >>

You attempt to transform a creature that you can see ...

Does that meant that you can't target yourself anymore?

The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or shape-shift into Beast form for the duration

Does an ally (or yourself) NEED to make a Wisdom save?  Based on the wording, it seems like they HAVE to make the save in order to transform.

 

If you can see yourself, you can target yourself.

Per the general rules on saving throws in the 2024 Player's Handbook, anyone can always willingly fail any saving throw.

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Quote from papainhell >>

Quote from wagnarokkr >>

Quote from Starkyii >>

My main question around this.

Concentration can be dropped willingly by the castor.

But how does it affect this spell?

Is the castor in full concentration of this for the hour? Or does the castor get to concentrate on something else after its been successfully casted?

If the castor drops the concentration will the spell be nulled or be for the duration?

Ending concentration on a spell ends all the effects of that spell unless the spell itself says otherwise.

If you end concentration on this spell, the target goes back to being whatever they were before.

 But-

Temporary Hit Points

Some spells and other effects confer Temporary Hit Points, which are a buffer against losing actual Hit Points, as explained below.

Lose Temporary Hit Points First

If you have Temporary Hit Points and take damage, those points are lost first, and any leftover damage carries over to your Hit Points. For example, if you have 5 Temporary Hit Points and take 7 damage, you lose those points and then lose 2 Hit Points.

Duration

Temporary Hit Points last until they’re depleted or you finish a Long Rest (see the rules glossary).

 

=================

As I said above, probably not intended, but RAW the temp HP would last until depleted or a long rest.

 

This is most definitely a discussion to be had at your table with your DM, or if you are a DM this is a way for you to be ready when a player presents this to you.

 Jeezus christ. What are you, a lawyer?

The purpose of the spell is to turn into something awesome. Like, "uh oh I'm in trouble falling down a cliff, I cast turn into a hawk+fly". Or "shit we failed to lock-pick and really need to get through that door quickly, *zap*giant goat+ram." Perhaps "oh no, I managed to get lost in this dark night, I'm in my underwear in a raging snowstorm and my dick is a popcicle, *poof* polarbear."

If you want temporary HP, cast a temporary HP spell. This spell is for becoming something. Drop the meta gaming?

Considering the vast majority of animal forms are still not that great compared to other options at the level you'd have access to Polymorph, I think using it for utility is probably the worst use case. Using it for an offensive form in the event that you're maybe down to your last spell slot or the barbarian is out of rages or something and needs a boost might be another decent boost, but the temp HP here will likely be way more valuable that anything in most Beast stat blocks. The alternate offensive use, the spell's primary usage considering it's a Wisdom saving throw spell first, is to incapacitate an enemy into some pathetic form and ignore it, but since it retains personality and such, it still remains a potential threat (albeit a negligible one). Using the spell to take on a form and drop concentration to keep the HP though is totally viable as the only other spells giving you temp HP at this level are False Life and Armor of Agathys, both of which are far lower than what this can do. The next one up is Power Word Fortify which can split the 120 across targets. I think it's perfectly balanced as just a giant meat shield and I don't think "intended use" is just the unga bunga tactic of get big and hit things. I think the spell is designed to give players tactical options in deploying it. Plus the spell states that it's effects shape change and then LATER very specifically call out the temp HP as separate, in a whole new paragraph. That's on purpose.

So, here's a thought.

Say you're a Divination Wizard with portent and stored a 1 roll for the day. You get into the fight of the decade. You cast Polymorph on it and it rolls a 437 wisdom save on your spell check of 16. You sac your saved portent roll of 1 and change his 437 to a 1, which is significantly lower than your 16. You manage to polymorph that huge nasty whatchamacallit into a squirrel. You cannot allow it to take physical damage per se, so it doesn't lose its temporary hit points & lose the polymorph. So, why not put them in a bag of holding? 10 minutes of air; 1 hour long spell.

Notice the strike text. I don't care how you manage it, but somehow you get them polymorphed. That's not really my biggest concern. Preventing damage and causing the threat of divine proportions to die instantly is bigger.

The suffocation rules changed in a way that has an interesting implication for polymorph. In 2014, suffocating would drop you to 0 hp (ending the polymorph). However now it appears that suffocation just results in you gaining exhaustion levels, dying on 6. RAW suffocation would never reduce your temporary hit points, and therefore never break polymorph.

This creates a weird incentive where the optimal "save or suck" forms for opponents is probably a large (high CR) aquatic animal which can't move on land. The more temp hp the better - since it means their allies would have to spend more time breaking them out of the trapped form. A giant shark is the best one I've found. True polymorph has the same thing, except with a higher CR aquatic creature it's even more likely that the exhaustion is going to kill them.

This seems cool the first time but I feel kind of doesn't match the fantasy of turning someone into a toad. The changes made were obviously trying to address the combo of polymorph + anything that killed when it reduced an opponent to zero (like many undead). But another issue just cropped up. I kind of think there's an issue that this spell is trying to do two things - it needs to be low level enough that turning your friend into a T-Rex is still viable, but at fourth level it can't be essentially a save-or-die spell, so they need to play around with the temp hp. I feel like a better option would be to make this two spells - a low level "benign" polymorph that works only on willing creatures, and a higher level "baleful" polymorph that can be cast on unwilling creatures (with a save).

It's a feature of all the polymorph spells and so I assume this was playtested to death, but the reverting to full hp on the polymorph form breaking also feels weird to me. As a first pass homebrew, I'm considering changing the polymorph family in the following way:
3rd level: Benign Polymorph - Polymorph except that it must be cast on a willing creature. No temp hp, instead you gain temp hp equal to the difference.
6-7th level: Baleful Polymorph - Polymorph except no temp hp, instead hp changes to the stat block used (even if lower).
8th level: Shapechange - Shapechange except no temp hp, instead you gain temp hp equal to the difference.
9th level: True Polymorph - True Polymorph except no temp hp, instead hp changes to the stat block used (even if lower).

 My question is if a barbarian is already raging and he is polymorphed into a Giant Ape is he still raging in the form of Great Ape and able to attack recklessly and add their rage damage?

Quote from ez2teach >>

 My question is if a barbarian is already raging and he is polymorphed into a Giant Ape is he still raging in the form of Great Ape and able to attack recklessly and add their rage damage?

Unfortunately it's not very clear whether class features count as "game statistics" that would be replaced by the new form's stats. It seems like the intent is probably that they should be, which would mean that the hypothetical Barbarian couldn't use those features while polymorphed.

You attempt to transform a creature that you can see within range into a Beast. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or shape-shift into Beast form for the duration. That form can be any Beast you choose that has a Challenge Rating equal to or less than the target’s (or the target’s level if it doesn’t have a Challenge Rating). The target’s game statistics are replaced by the stat block of the chosen Beast, but the target retains its alignment, personality, creature type, Hit Points, and Hit Point Dice.

The target gains a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the Hit Points of the Beast form. The spell ends early on the target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left.

The target is limited in the actions it can perform by the anatomy of its new form, and it can’t speak or cast spells.

The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t use or otherwise benefit from any of that equipment.

You are correct.

Pack Tactics Video explaining as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6Rp73mglIA

Old Armor of agathys points out the temp HP vanishes when the spell ends.
Here's the description

Source: Player's Handbook

1st-level abjuration

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M (a cup of water)
Duration: 1 hour

A protective magical force surrounds you, manifesting as a spectral frost that covers you and your gear. You gain 5 temporary hit points for the duration. If a creature hits you with a melee attack while you have these hit points, the creature takes 5 cold damage.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, both the temporary hit points and the cold damage increase by 5 for each slot.

Here's the new one

Protective magical frost surrounds you. You gain 5 Temporary Hit Points. If a creature hits you with a melee attack roll before the spell ends, the creature takes 5 Cold damage. The spell ends early if you have no Temporary Hit Points.

Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. The Temporary Hit Points and the Cold damage both increase by 5 for each spell slot level above 1.

Rules on Temp HP

Lose Temporary Hit Points First

If you have Temporary Hit Points and take damage, those points are lost first, and any leftover damage carries over to your Hit Points. For example, if you have 5 Temporary Hit Points and take 7 damage, you lose those points and then lose 2 Hit Points.

Duration

Temporary Hit Points last until they’re depleted or you finish a Long Rest (see the rules glossary).

Temporary Hit Points Don’t Stack

Temporary Hit Points can’t be added together. If you have Temporary Hit Points and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep the ones you have or to gain the new ones. For example, if a spell grants you 12 Temporary Hit Points when you already have 10, you can have 12 or 10, not 22.

They’re Not Hit Points or Healing

Temporary Hit Points can’t be added to your Hit Points, healing can’t restore them, and receiving Temporary Hit Points doesn’t count as healing. Because Temporary Hit Points aren’t Hit Points, a creature can be at full Hit Points and receive Temporary Hit Points.

If you have 0 Hit Points, receiving Temporary Hit Points doesn’t restore you to consciousness. Only true healing can save you.

TLDR/Verdict:
It is extremely broken and perhaps an oversight but Pack Tactics is right.

The Temp HP last RAW.

It seems Pack Tactics was wrong and they fixed this spell my bad.

Ha! All you of bad faith - it was very clear what their intent was with the THP.

Quote from Decisiondan >>

It doesn't specify that you lose the temp HP when you lose concentration. So couldn't I just use this to polymorph into a t-rex, get a 130+ temp HP, drop concentration and keep the  temp HP?

Perhaps they changed it, but currently it says "These Temporary Hit Points vanish if any remain when the spell ends."

So ending concentration ends the spell which vanishes the remaining temp HP

It's explicit.

You lose the temp hit points if the spell ends, so if concentration ends, then you lose the temp hit points.

It does say that now, but that was added in an errata update on April 22. Prior to that, there was no specification of when or if the temporary HP went away, and that omission was the source of a lot of argument here and elsewhere.

Ah, that explains it

Quote from Decisiondan >>

It doesn't specify that you lose the temp HP when you lose concentration. So couldn't I just use this to polymorph into a t-rex, get a 130+ temp HP, drop concentration and keep the  temp HP?

 I don't think many DMs would allow that, I know I wouldn't. There is a trade-off here, you gain HP and a new form and lose spellcasting, the ability to talk, and any benefits from gear. Getting the benefits from both forms and losing the drawbacks from both for a lvl 4 spell would be extremely OP. Even with the nerf to this spell it's still very powerful as is, so making it even more powerful isn't needed.