But isn't it technically the same whether it's d12 or 2d6? I know there are feats that might make it better to have 2d6, but overall, it would be almost the same, no?

The average for d12 is 6.5, and 2d6 is 7, so not much difference there. The real difference is the standard deviation, ie. a d12 has a 1/12 chance for each outcome but 2d6 will more often be around the average. The 2d6 is both slightly higher and more consistent, which is why people tend to prefer the 2d6 weapons.

Hey at least it scales now!

Also optionally changes damage type to force - pretty nice!

If I have a +2 Quarterstaff and use Shillelagh on it, is the +2 added to the attack and damage rolls? Also considering it is level 17 the scale should have at least gone to 2d8, that's half of the d8 cantrips at 17th level. Thanks for the replies!

Is potent spellcasting calculating correctly on this thing? As a lvl 8 druid, i have potent spellcasting from elemental fury. This is adding another +5 to the existing +5 from my spellcasting modifier. So is it really supposed to be a 1d10 + 10 on a cantrip?? That seems nutty.

It's 2d6 to keep it in line with martial weapons, as no weapon deals more than 2d6.

This is my new favorite pact of the blade spell. granted it takes also taking pact of the tome to get it as a warlock spell but then you can eventually get 3 attacks with it a round, and add repelling and agonizing to it with other invocations. if you multi class you can also get the mastery property for the club/quarterstaff as needed

Does stowing/unequipping the weapon count as 'letting it go' (thereby canceling the Shillelagh)? My thought is no, as it's still on my person. For context I'm working out how Shillelagh club and the nick from scimitar would work while also holding a shield. The Attack [action] rules say "You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action" and the light property does not say it has to be held in the other hand at the time of the attack, only that it must be made with a different light weapon. With a shield in hand, I'm trying to see if it's viable at level 5 to go:

(shield in hand) Attack scimitar (stow), (draw) extra attack Shillelagh club, nick attack Shillelagh club? 

Quote from hjl247 >>

If I have a +2 Quarterstaff and use Shillelagh on it, is the +2 added to the attack and damage rolls? Also considering it is level 17 the scale should have at least gone to 2d8, that's half of the d8 cantrips at 17th level. Thanks for the replies!

The +X bonus from a magic weapon is always applied to both attack and damage rolls. Casting this spell on it doesn't affect that at all.

Quote from NinjaNate86 >>

Does stowing/unequipping the weapon count as 'letting it go' (thereby canceling the Shillelagh)? My thought is no, as it's still on my person. For context I'm working out how Shillelagh club and the nick from scimitar would work while also holding a shield. The Attack [action] rules say "You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action" and the light property does not say it has to be held in the other hand at the time of the attack, only that it must be made with a different light weapon. With a shield in hand, I'm trying to see if it's viable at level 5 to go:

(shield in hand) Attack scimitar (stow), (draw) extra attack Shillelagh club, nick attack Shillelagh club? 

Personally I would rule that if you don't have the weapon in your hand, you've let it go, and this spell would end on it.

Since Druids don't get extra attack or weapon mastery, you've obviously got some multiclassing going on there or something, but I think there are probably easier ways to get three attacks in a turn than all of this.

Nope!

No 1 damage, and greater reliability.

Quote from NinjaNate86 >>

Does stowing/unequipping the weapon count as 'letting it go' (thereby canceling the Shillelagh)? My thought is no, as it's still on my person. For context I'm working out how Shillelagh club and the nick from scimitar would work while also holding a shield. The Attack [action] rules say "You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action" and the light property does not say it has to be held in the other hand at the time of the attack, only that it must be made with a different light weapon. With a shield in hand, I'm trying to see if it's viable at level 5 to go:

(shield in hand) Attack scimitar (stow), (draw) extra attack Shillelagh club, nick attack Shillelagh club? 

Regarding unequipping, it's hard to think of a way you could unequip a one-handed weapon that doesn't involve letting it go, thus ending the cantrip. At my table, I've ruled you need to keep a weapon equipped to use its weapon properties, including mastery. As soon as you unequip scimitar, you lose both light and Nick properties, and thus any benefits from the attack you just made. My players can't use equip/unequip to wield multiple weapons and a shield and use the light weapon property. I think that violates the spirit of the rules.

I've been thinking about combining shillelagh with Weapon Mastery, as I've been building a spell/Wisdom-focused Ranger with the Guide background, taking shillelagh via the Magical Adept (druid) feat. Thinking about Polearm Master combined with quarterstaff. Here's what I've concluded regarding Polearm Master's Pole Strike ability and shillelagh.

• The strike is a melee attack using the weapon, so using the spellcasting ability modifier applies.
• Polearm Master states the weapon's damage die for Pole Strike is d4, and shillelagh changes a weapon's damage die. This applies to Pole Strike equally. After all, it modifies a club's d4, and the pole strike is basically a club.
• If the attack deals damage, it can be force damage. This would also apply to Pole Strike.

The PHB says the range is Self, but Touch makes more sense.

When the damage die becomes a "hardcoded" d8, will it be still d8, if used on a versatile weapon like the quarterstaff or will it be d8 when the QS is used one-handed and d10 when used two-handed?

Quote from DallonChevalier >>

Quote from NinjaNate86 >>

Does stowing/unequipping the weapon count as 'letting it go' (thereby canceling the Shillelagh)? My thought is no, as it's still on my person. For context I'm working out how Shillelagh club and the nick from scimitar would work while also holding a shield. The Attack [action] rules say "You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action" and the light property does not say it has to be held in the other hand at the time of the attack, only that it must be made with a different light weapon. With a shield in hand, I'm trying to see if it's viable at level 5 to go:

(shield in hand) Attack scimitar (stow), (draw) extra attack Shillelagh club, nick attack Shillelagh club? 

Regarding unequipping, it's hard to think of a way you could unequip a one-handed weapon that doesn't involve letting it go, thus ending the cantrip. At my table, I've ruled you need to keep a weapon equipped to use its weapon properties, including mastery. As soon as you unequip scimitar, you lose both light and Nick properties, and thus any benefits from the attack you just made. My players can't use equip/unequip to wield multiple weapons and a shield and use the light weapon property. I think that violates the spirit of the rules.

I've been thinking about combining shillelagh with Weapon Mastery, as I've been building a spell/Wisdom-focused Ranger with the Guide background, taking shillelagh via the Magical Adept (druid) feat. Thinking about Polearm Master combined with quarterstaff. Here's what I've concluded regarding Polearm Master's Pole Strike ability and shillelagh.

• The strike is a melee attack using the weapon, so using the spellcasting ability modifier applies.
• Polearm Master states the weapon's damage die for Pole Strike is d4, and shillelagh changes a weapon's damage die. This applies to Pole Strike equally. After all, it modifies a club's d4, and the pole strike is basically a club.
• If the attack deals damage, it can be force damage. This would also apply to Pole Strike.

At my table, the Bonus Action attack from Polearm Master would remain a d4 and is bludgeoning not the option of force. The PAM feat specifically calls out the rules for that particular attack, while Shillelagh says it changes the "weapons damage die". The weapon's damage die has no bearing on the PAM bonus action attack. I.e. do it on a Glaive and it's a d4, do it on a Spear and it's a d4. A Club... is not relevant to PAM in any way.

If someone argued the point, I could see allowing that attack to be made force damage, but I can't see it being anything but a d4.

I agree. The Bonus Action attack from PAM doesn’t use the weapon’s damage die; the attack is specifically stated to be a d4. I would definitely allow it to be force damage though, if the player wanted it to be.

Quote from Historydoctor >>

I agree. The Bonus Action attack from PAM doesn’t use the weapon’s damage die; the attack is specifically stated to be a d4. I would definitely allow it to be force damage though, if the player wanted it to be.

Quote from stone_database >>

Quote from DallonChevalier >>

Quote from NinjaNate86 >>

Does stowing/unequipping the weapon count as 'letting it go' (thereby canceling the Shillelagh)? My thought is no, as it's still on my person. For context I'm working out how Shillelagh club and the nick from scimitar would work while also holding a shield. The Attack [action] rules say "You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action" and the light property does not say it has to be held in the other hand at the time of the attack, only that it must be made with a different light weapon. With a shield in hand, I'm trying to see if it's viable at level 5 to go:

(shield in hand) Attack scimitar (stow), (draw) extra attack Shillelagh club, nick attack Shillelagh club? 

Regarding unequipping, it's hard to think of a way you could unequip a one-handed weapon that doesn't involve letting it go, thus ending the cantrip. At my table, I've ruled you need to keep a weapon equipped to use its weapon properties, including mastery. As soon as you unequip scimitar, you lose both light and Nick properties, and thus any benefits from the attack you just made. My players can't use equip/unequip to wield multiple weapons and a shield and use the light weapon property. I think that violates the spirit of the rules.

I've been thinking about combining shillelagh with Weapon Mastery, as I've been building a spell/Wisdom-focused Ranger with the Guide background, taking shillelagh via the Magical Adept (druid) feat. Thinking about Polearm Master combined with quarterstaff. Here's what I've concluded regarding Polearm Master's Pole Strike ability and shillelagh.

• The strike is a melee attack using the weapon, so using the spellcasting ability modifier applies.
• Polearm Master states the weapon's damage die for Pole Strike is d4, and shillelagh changes a weapon's damage die. This applies to Pole Strike equally. After all, it modifies a club's d4, and the pole strike is basically a club.
• If the attack deals damage, it can be force damage. This would also apply to Pole Strike.

 

At my table, the Bonus Action attack from Polearm Master would remain a d4 and is bludgeoning not the option of force. The PAM feat specifically calls out the rules for that particular attack, while Shillelagh says it changes the "weapons damage die". The weapon's damage die has no bearing on the PAM bonus action attack. I.e. do it on a Glaive and it's a d4, do it on a Spear and it's a d4. A Club... is not relevant to PAM in any way.

If someone argued the point, I could see allowing that attack to be made force damage, but I can't see it being anything but a d4.

I disagree with both of y'all. While it's clearly not RAI to work this way, there is a way to argue that it technically fits RAW.

PAM:
"Immediately after you take the Attack action and attack with a Quarterstaff, a Spear, or a weapon that has the Heavy and Reach properties, you can use a Bonus Action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon. The weapon deals Bludgeoning damage, and the weapon’s damage die for this attack is a d4."
Shillelagh:
"For the duration, you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using that weapon, and the weapon’s damage die becomes a d8." 


PAM *changes* the base weapon's damage die for that attack, but the argument would be that if Shillelagh is up, this is overridden as we're still within the duration of Shillelagh, so the weapon's damage die is a d8.

Now the answer to this should be found within Specific Beats General (or in 2024, this is now  "Exceptions Supersede General Rules"). But which is the general rule and which is the exception? 

One could argue that for this character, the general rule is that Pole Strike normally always does d4, but the exception is when you may happen to have Shillelagh temporarily casted. 
One could equally argue that because you have to have already had Shillelagh cast when you do the Pole Strike, that means "for the duration" is the general rule, while "for this attack" is the exception. 

I personally think that while counter-intuitive and probably not intended, when you look at the the arguments for each, the argument for making the shillelagh damage apply to Pole Strike is the stronger application of Exceptions Supersede General Rules.  It also has the added bonus of being easier to deal with: if Shillelagh is up, everything uses the same dice instead of having to add d4's into it.  The scaling damage difference isn't that meaningful: d4 to d8 at 4th is an average increase of 2 damage; d4 to d10 at 5th is an average increase of 3 damage; d4 to d12 at 11th is an average increase of 4 damage; and d4 to 2d6 at 17th is an average increase of 4.5 damage; the damage scaling from the value of Pole Strike's dice is going to be a trivial portion of their overall output.  So while it's a power boost, it's not really a gamebreaking one. 

hehehe. psi warrior. magic initiate druid background feat. focus everything into int. become yoda, you will

Quote from LeifSA >>

Quote from Historydoctor >>

I agree. The Bonus Action attack from PAM doesn’t use the weapon’s damage die; the attack is specifically stated to be a d4. I would definitely allow it to be force damage though, if the player wanted it to be.

 

Quote from stone_database >>

Quote from DallonChevalier >>

Quote from NinjaNate86 >>

Does stowing/unequipping the weapon count as 'letting it go' (thereby canceling the Shillelagh)? My thought is no, as it's still on my person. For context I'm working out how Shillelagh club and the nick from scimitar would work while also holding a shield. The Attack [action] rules say "You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action" and the light property does not say it has to be held in the other hand at the time of the attack, only that it must be made with a different light weapon. With a shield in hand, I'm trying to see if it's viable at level 5 to go:

(shield in hand) Attack scimitar (stow), (draw) extra attack Shillelagh club, nick attack Shillelagh club? 

Regarding unequipping, it's hard to think of a way you could unequip a one-handed weapon that doesn't involve letting it go, thus ending the cantrip. At my table, I've ruled you need to keep a weapon equipped to use its weapon properties, including mastery. As soon as you unequip scimitar, you lose both light and Nick properties, and thus any benefits from the attack you just made. My players can't use equip/unequip to wield multiple weapons and a shield and use the light weapon property. I think that violates the spirit of the rules.

I've been thinking about combining shillelagh with Weapon Mastery, as I've been building a spell/Wisdom-focused Ranger with the Guide background, taking shillelagh via the Magical Adept (druid) feat. Thinking about Polearm Master combined with quarterstaff. Here's what I've concluded regarding Polearm Master's Pole Strike ability and shillelagh.

• The strike is a melee attack using the weapon, so using the spellcasting ability modifier applies.
• Polearm Master states the weapon's damage die for Pole Strike is d4, and shillelagh changes a weapon's damage die. This applies to Pole Strike equally. After all, it modifies a club's d4, and the pole strike is basically a club.
• If the attack deals damage, it can be force damage. This would also apply to Pole Strike.

 

At my table, the Bonus Action attack from Polearm Master would remain a d4 and is bludgeoning not the option of force. The PAM feat specifically calls out the rules for that particular attack, while Shillelagh says it changes the "weapons damage die". The weapon's damage die has no bearing on the PAM bonus action attack. I.e. do it on a Glaive and it's a d4, do it on a Spear and it's a d4. A Club... is not relevant to PAM in any way.

If someone argued the point, I could see allowing that attack to be made force damage, but I can't see it being anything but a d4.

 

I disagree with both of y'all. While it's clearly not RAI to work this way, there is a way to argue that it technically fits RAW.

PAM:
"Immediately after you take the Attack action and attack with a Quarterstaff, a Spear, or a weapon that has the Heavy and Reach properties, you can use a Bonus Action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon. The weapon deals Bludgeoning damage, and the weapon’s damage die for this attack is a d4."
Shillelagh:
"For the duration, you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of melee attacks using that weapon, and the weapon’s damage die becomes a d8." 


PAM *changes* the base weapon's damage die for that attack, but the argument would be that if Shillelagh is up, this is overridden as we're still within the duration of Shillelagh, so the weapon's damage die is a d8.

Now the answer to this should be found within Specific Beats General (or in 2024, this is now  "Exceptions Supersede General Rules"). But which is the general rule and which is the exception? 

One could argue that for this character, the general rule is that Pole Strike normally always does d4, but the exception is when you may happen to have Shillelagh temporarily casted. 
One could equally argue that because you have to have already had Shillelagh cast when you do the Pole Strike, that means "for the duration" is the general rule, while "for this attack" is the exception. 

I personally think that while counter-intuitive and probably not intended, when you look at the the arguments for each, the argument for making the shillelagh damage apply to Pole Strike is the stronger application of Exceptions Supersede General Rules.  It also has the added bonus of being easier to deal with: if Shillelagh is up, everything uses the same dice instead of having to add d4's into it.  The scaling damage difference isn't that meaningful: d4 to d8 at 4th is an average increase of 2 damage; d4 to d10 at 5th is an average increase of 3 damage; d4 to d12 at 11th is an average increase of 4 damage; and d4 to 2d6 at 17th is an average increase of 4.5 damage; the damage scaling from the value of Pole Strike's dice is going to be a trivial portion of their overall output.  So while it's a power boost, it's not really a gamebreaking one. 

 

 Anyone arguing that Pole Strike gets overridden by Shillelagh is arguing in bad faith and there's no point arguing with them. And not just because Pole Strike is an activated ability, though that should be enough to tell you it's more specific than an active buff. There's actually a much better argument to be made in the RAW of the versatile property, as the versatile property doesn't interface with the weapons damage die and instead just says that attacks deal 1d8. If anyone argues this seriously though, save yourself the trouble and don't play with them.