I am very new to the intricacies of 5th edition, being introduced to them only last week thru Adventure League. I was pretty up on the rules for 2nd and 3rd before skipping 4th entirely. Many of the ideas I had about character creation don't seem to play out like I expect.
That's all good. I'm learning. And these forums have been very helpful.
One thing I've seen in Adventure League literature is that I might rarely advance beyond 11th level -- all of that subject to my local Adventure League scene. But, with that in mind, I was wondering about the practicality of building a variant human with a planned fighter 1/artificer X split. I want to go with a hand crossbow build and I'm thinking that Artificer lets me get around some of the drawbacks by means of infusions.
Is that a completely crazy idea or is it workable. I don't need to be OP, just functional and able to (mostly) carry my own weight.
If you're going a variant human anyway, could you not just take Crossbow Expert as a feat to get around the crossbow limitations? Crossbow Expert gives you the key features you need of no close range penalty, and no one shot per action limitation, plus a bonus attack option.
Or is your intention to dip into Artificer purely for Repeating Shot (unlimited ammo and no need to have a hand free to reload)? It's a tough call to make as obviously you get extra benefits from Artificer (spellcasting etc.) but you need at least two levels for infusions, and that means either delaying the extra attacks for the Fighter (and blocking off your 3rd attack if think 11th is you limit) or waiting to add artificer.
I mean, it could work, but I think you need a clearer idea of what you're looking to get other than just making the crossbow better.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I'm thinking more of a utility character than going the pure fighter route. So looking at all the possibles from Artificer and looking at Crossbow Expert as a way to get in added ranged shots when using spells/infusions isn't really needed. That lets me save spells in particular for desperate times of need while serving in more of a support role.
My AL experience so far is that groups are dynamic (I know it isn't a requirement but that too depends on the locality). So, not knowing for certain from week to week what the group might need I'm looking at being able to fill multiple roles if it comes to that
Since it's AL: Remember that you can only use the bonus action shot when using the attack action. So no shooting after casting. I'd suggest using either a heavy crossbow or a hand crossbow+shield infused with the Repeating Shot infusion. That would also free the feat from Variant Human for something else like Fighting Initiate,which would let you skip the fighter dip entirely so you'll be able to have a bigger Iron Defender and more Artificer Stuff. Maybe even take Sharpshooter - in the early levels it just anihilates some enemys instantly.
So your suggestion would be to go straight Artificer and, if I want to use hand crossbows, to go with the Battle Smith specialty. I can combine Crossbow Expert with Fighting Initiate to get the same effect as splashing Fighter. Or, maybe better, combine Sharpshooter with Fighting Initiate and hold off on Crossbow Expert until L8 (if I live that long). That is definitely something to consider. Thanks.
Just as an alternative to Battlesmith, consider a human with Fighting Initiate for Archer to start, building towards Artillerist. Get repeating shot infusion on a light crossbow so you don’t need CBE much. Take sharpshooter at the first ASI, when you can more consistently hit things than you can at level 1. You’ll have multiple ranged attacks per round with better damage per hit using light crossbow and force cannon.
While Artillerist lacks the flexibility the Battlesmith’s steel defender provides, you do get an AoE bonus attack or temp HP bonus from your cannon. And you get the cannon attacks as bonuses even if your action is a support spell, which is key for this approach’s flexibility. If you want to commit to a ranged attack plus support flex build, it could work very well with a variety of other classes.
I decided that for what I want the best approach is to to variant Human with two levels of Artificer and then multi-class to Fighter. I will pick up Eldritch Knight as a fighter. I think it will have more utility to me given the spell options. I'm finding plenty of dedicated caster types and enough dedicated melee types. I'm going to focus on being a ranged threat.
Feat selections thus far are Crossbow Expert with the Archery focus. Repeating Shot infusion to skip reloading and ammunition. At L6 I will take Sharpshooter. From there i'll either stay with Fighter for the extra attacks and feats or switch to Rogue for the sneak attack dice. At the moment I'm torn between the Rogue and Fighter pathways. I might start a second character that is Artificer 2/Fighter 1/Rogue X to see if there's a noticeable difference. It puts off Sharpshooter until L7 but I've not yet been in an adventure where Sharpshooter will really pay off and the to hit bonuses don't seem enough to offset the penalty if I go for the extra damage. I'm thinking that it can wait until a later level without hurting things. Meanwhile an extra d6 of damage seems worth it.
Anyway, thanks for the insights.
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I am very new to the intricacies of 5th edition, being introduced to them only last week thru Adventure League. I was pretty up on the rules for 2nd and 3rd before skipping 4th entirely. Many of the ideas I had about character creation don't seem to play out like I expect.
That's all good. I'm learning. And these forums have been very helpful.
One thing I've seen in Adventure League literature is that I might rarely advance beyond 11th level -- all of that subject to my local Adventure League scene. But, with that in mind, I was wondering about the practicality of building a variant human with a planned fighter 1/artificer X split. I want to go with a hand crossbow build and I'm thinking that Artificer lets me get around some of the drawbacks by means of infusions.
Is that a completely crazy idea or is it workable. I don't need to be OP, just functional and able to (mostly) carry my own weight.
Thanks
If you're going a variant human anyway, could you not just take Crossbow Expert as a feat to get around the crossbow limitations? Crossbow Expert gives you the key features you need of no close range penalty, and no one shot per action limitation, plus a bonus attack option.
Or is your intention to dip into Artificer purely for Repeating Shot (unlimited ammo and no need to have a hand free to reload)? It's a tough call to make as obviously you get extra benefits from Artificer (spellcasting etc.) but you need at least two levels for infusions, and that means either delaying the extra attacks for the Fighter (and blocking off your 3rd attack if think 11th is you limit) or waiting to add artificer.
I mean, it could work, but I think you need a clearer idea of what you're looking to get other than just making the crossbow better.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I'm thinking more of a utility character than going the pure fighter route. So looking at all the possibles from Artificer and looking at Crossbow Expert as a way to get in added ranged shots when using spells/infusions isn't really needed. That lets me save spells in particular for desperate times of need while serving in more of a support role.
My AL experience so far is that groups are dynamic (I know it isn't a requirement but that too depends on the locality). So, not knowing for certain from week to week what the group might need I'm looking at being able to fill multiple roles if it comes to that
Since it's AL: Remember that you can only use the bonus action shot when using the attack action. So no shooting after casting. I'd suggest using either a heavy crossbow or a hand crossbow+shield infused with the Repeating Shot infusion. That would also free the feat from Variant Human for something else like Fighting Initiate,which would let you skip the fighter dip entirely so you'll be able to have a bigger Iron Defender and more Artificer Stuff. Maybe even take Sharpshooter - in the early levels it just anihilates some enemys instantly.
So your suggestion would be to go straight Artificer and, if I want to use hand crossbows, to go with the Battle Smith specialty. I can combine Crossbow Expert with Fighting Initiate to get the same effect as splashing Fighter. Or, maybe better, combine Sharpshooter with Fighting Initiate and hold off on Crossbow Expert until L8 (if I live that long). That is definitely something to consider. Thanks.
Just as an alternative to Battlesmith, consider a human with Fighting Initiate for Archer to start, building towards Artillerist. Get repeating shot infusion on a light crossbow so you don’t need CBE much. Take sharpshooter at the first ASI, when you can more consistently hit things than you can at level 1. You’ll have multiple ranged attacks per round with better damage per hit using light crossbow and force cannon.
While Artillerist lacks the flexibility the Battlesmith’s steel defender provides, you do get an AoE bonus attack or temp HP bonus from your cannon. And you get the cannon attacks as bonuses even if your action is a support spell, which is key for this approach’s flexibility. If you want to commit to a ranged attack plus support flex build, it could work very well with a variety of other classes.
Thanks all.
I decided that for what I want the best approach is to to variant Human with two levels of Artificer and then multi-class to Fighter. I will pick up Eldritch Knight as a fighter. I think it will have more utility to me given the spell options. I'm finding plenty of dedicated caster types and enough dedicated melee types. I'm going to focus on being a ranged threat.
Feat selections thus far are Crossbow Expert with the Archery focus. Repeating Shot infusion to skip reloading and ammunition. At L6 I will take Sharpshooter. From there i'll either stay with Fighter for the extra attacks and feats or switch to Rogue for the sneak attack dice. At the moment I'm torn between the Rogue and Fighter pathways. I might start a second character that is Artificer 2/Fighter 1/Rogue X to see if there's a noticeable difference. It puts off Sharpshooter until L7 but I've not yet been in an adventure where Sharpshooter will really pay off and the to hit bonuses don't seem enough to offset the penalty if I go for the extra damage. I'm thinking that it can wait until a later level without hurting things. Meanwhile an extra d6 of damage seems worth it.
Anyway, thanks for the insights.