So I was playing my Alchemist Artificer and my DM pointed out that my healing spells technically don't get the bonus from Alchemical Savant because, since there is no Material component, I don't use my spellcasting focus to cast the spell.
I just looked over all the healing spells the Artificer gets, of the 6 of them that (technically) heal: Cure Wounds, Healing Word, Mass Healing Word, Aid, Raise Dead, and Revivify, only the first three actually roll to heal, but none of them have costless Material components AND roll to heal. Additionally, I looked over every spell that heals and there are only TWO spells that roll to heal with a costless Material component, Regenerate, and Wither and Bloom, neither of which are even Artificer spells.
I've seen a good amount of other posts critiquing this feature, but I've never seen anyone mention this specifically. Is this how the it's meant to work, is this an oversight, or am I just missing something?
All Artificer spells require a material component: your tools. They can be replaced by infused items or all-purpose tools as a focus.
EXCEPT for Alchemists...
Per the description for Alchemist Savant, "Whenever you cast a spell using your alchemist's supplies as the spellcasting focus..."
As for needing a Material Component, it says under spellcasting:
You produce your artificer spell effects through your tools. You must have a spellcasting focus—specifically thieves' tools or some kind of artisan's tool—in hand when you cast any spell with this Spellcasting feature (meaning the spell has an 'M' component when you cast it).
Alchemist’s Supplies are a tool in the sense of the subclass’s tool proficiency. But Cyberfunkr makes a good point that you can’t use infusions or other foci in order to get Alchemical Savant’s bonuses. You have to use Alchemist’s Supplies. In any event, that adds the material component for the healing spells the OP was concerned with.
All Artificer spells require a material component: your tools. They can be replaced by infused items or all-purpose tools as a focus.
Ok I just reread the spellcasting feature for Artificer and I see what you're saying now. Regardless of what the spell's components are, I use the tools regardless. Thank you
So I was playing my Alchemist Artificer and my DM pointed out that my healing spells technically don't get the bonus from Alchemical Savant because, since there is no Material component, I don't use my spellcasting focus to cast the spell.
While it doesn't apply to Alchemist anyway, I think it's worth noting that it's a common misconception that a casting focus can only be used to cast spells with material components; nothing in the rules actually states this to be the case, the focus just doesn't (normally) provide any added benefit. Literally the only rule for how spellcasting focuses work is under the rules for material components as: "A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell".
Nowhere do the rules state that you can't otherwise use a focus for spellcasting; I mean it's literally called a spellcasting focus. This issue comes up with a College of Spirits Bard's Spiritual Focus for example, but there's no reason you can't choose to use it to cast other spells. Another way of thinking of it is that if a spell has no material components then the focus is still supplying them (because if it can stand in for something then it must also be able to stand in for nothing).
Again, doesn't apply to the Alchemist, but it's worth keeping in mind in case the issue comes up for other players with similar features.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Tools Required of the Spellcasting section of the Artificer Class itself actually imposes the requirement of specifically tools for ALL spellcasting regardless if the original spell had an M or not.
Tools required gives all spells cast the M. Anything cast by that spellcasting feature now requires an M. mean that all the alchemist spells require a tool to cast. If you use the alchemist's tools. You get those benefits. Full stop. Straight up.
Tools Required
You produce your artificer spell effects through your tools. You must have a spellcasting focus—specifically thieves’ tools or some kind of artisan’s tool—in hand when you cast any spell with this Spellcasting feature (meaning the spell has an ‘M’ component when you cast it). You must be proficient with the tool to use it in this way. See chapter 5, “Equipment,” in the Player’s Handbook for descriptions of these tools.
I mean, that argument doesn't quite hold. DnD uses a permissive rules language. If it doesn't say you can do something then you can't. The "can" you highlighted just means that you aren't forced to use a spellcasting focus to replace the material cost in regular spellcasting. You can just use the materials itself if you wanted to. It does NOT mean that you can use the spellfocus in any other way when casting a spell.
Except the same permissive rules language enables it; multiple places in the rules refer to you being able to use something as a spellcasting focus, but a "spellcasting focus" is never defined beyond its name. Which means it's name is the definition, so it's an item for focusing your spellcasting, therefore if you're casting a spell you can use it, it just (normally) has no additional effect if there are no material components.
The idea that a caster wouldn't use a wand, staff etc. to cast magic if they have one to hand is patently absurd.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
It's very clearly designed as something that lets you use it in place of material components. There's no other use for a spellcasting focus.
If that were "clearly" the case it would be defined somewhere explicitly and say "you can never, ever under any circumstances use this to focus your spellcasting (please ignore the name entirely because that was just a troll on our part). It's just for giving you material components" rather than being defined as nothing but a name and then scattered around haphazardly.
You've already said it yourself, the rules are permissive meaning they'll specify when there are any restrictions. It's for this reason that you can use a shortsword to prop a door open, or to carefully cut a cake, because otherwise by your logic a sword, since it's a weapon, can only be used to make weapon attacks and literally can never be used for any other purpose, under any circumstances, ever.
But for a spellcasting focus we're not even talking about invented alternate uses; a spellcasting focus is for focusing your spellcasting, it's literally (and literarily) right there in the name. Focusing your spellcasting is what it's for. It doesn't matter that normally this gives you no added benefit. Allowing you to substitute material components is a separate condition of the material component rules.
The only reason you wouldn't use a spellcasting focus for a spell is when you need to perform a somatic component that can't be done while holding a focus in one hand, though even that's ridiculously poorly defined, as it's another common misconception that you always need a free (as in empty) hand for somatic components, but what the rules actually say is:
If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
This is not the same as "the caster must have an empty hand". If for example you were to cast true strike, which only requires you to "point a finger at a target in range" then you can very clearly do this while holding a wand (as long your character holds it properly rather than clutching it in their fist like a monster). It's essentially telling you that it may be better not to have your fists trapped in cookie jars while attempting to cast spells.
Again, it's silly to assume that a caster would have a wand, staff etc. and not use it as much as physically possible, especially since levelled up versions like a wand of the war magerequire you to be holding it basically all the time. The only real reason why you wouldn't always be holding a spellcasting focus is if you have other things you need both of your hands for.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I'm honestly not quite sure what else to say. You don't seem to have such a sever problem of reading how rules work usually so it seems super weird that you are bending the spellfocus rules in this case.
I'm not bending the rules, because they're being called a "spellcasting focus" is literally 100% of their rules. Common sense dictates that what they are is what they're for; the name tells you everything you need to know.
The material components rule mentioning them as a way to supply uncosted material components is it's own separate thing; those are just the rules for material components, it has no bearing on whether you can use a spellcasting focus to focus your spellcasting.
The rabbit hole you seem to want to go down is assuming that no character in D&D can be wearing clothes, because [Tooltip Not Found] don't tell you how you can wear them, or that nobody can sit down because the only time chairs are mentioned is as improvised weapons and so-on. That's just not how the rules work at all.
But if you're going to accuse me of not being able to read then I'm happy to leave it there; because I've clearly more than made my case, with multiple citations to the actual rules.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Spellcasting and Focuses might be suited to a separate rules specific thread.
Yes, take it to Rules & Mechanics. We already had a thread there with someone claiming they could do particular stuff with Alchemical Savant based on the same assumption.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Alchemist’s Supplies are a tool in the sense of the subclass’s tool proficiency. But Cyberfunkr makes a good point that you can’t use infusions or other foci in order to get Alchemical Savant’s bonuses. You have to use Alchemist’s Supplies. In any event, that adds the material component for the healing spells the OP was concerned with.
The All-purpose tool is kind of an exception (as can be alchemist supplies and a focus with a nice bonus to attacks and saves). The problem is you might have to wait until the artificer crafting feature comes online at level 10.
my guess is that there will be an errata making "enhanced arcane focus" compatible but they just played it too safe. a really nit pick way would be the stirring rod of the alchemist supplies becomes the infusion but at that point your just better off asking for a homebrew rule.
All Artificer spells require a material component: your tools. They can be replaced by infused items or all-purpose tools as a focus.
EXCEPT for Alchemists...
Per the description for Alchemist Savant, "Whenever you cast a spell using your alchemist's supplies as the spellcasting focus..."
As for needing a Material Component, it says under spellcasting:
Alchemist’s Supplies are a tool in the sense of the subclass’s tool proficiency. But Cyberfunkr makes a good point that you can’t use infusions or other foci in order to get Alchemical Savant’s bonuses. You have to use Alchemist’s Supplies. In any event, that adds the material component for the healing spells the OP was concerned with.
Ok I just reread the spellcasting feature for Artificer and I see what you're saying now. Regardless of what the spell's components are, I use the tools regardless. Thank you
While it doesn't apply to Alchemist anyway, I think it's worth noting that it's a common misconception that a casting focus can only be used to cast spells with material components; nothing in the rules actually states this to be the case, the focus just doesn't (normally) provide any added benefit. Literally the only rule for how spellcasting focuses work is under the rules for material components as: "A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell".
Nowhere do the rules state that you can't otherwise use a focus for spellcasting; I mean it's literally called a spellcasting focus. This issue comes up with a College of Spirits Bard's Spiritual Focus for example, but there's no reason you can't choose to use it to cast other spells. Another way of thinking of it is that if a spell has no material components then the focus is still supplying them (because if it can stand in for something then it must also be able to stand in for nothing).
Again, doesn't apply to the Alchemist, but it's worth keeping in mind in case the issue comes up for other players with similar features.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Tools Required of the Spellcasting section of the Artificer Class itself actually imposes the requirement of specifically tools for ALL spellcasting regardless if the original spell had an M or not.
Tools required gives all spells cast the M. Anything cast by that spellcasting feature now requires an M. mean that all the alchemist spells require a tool to cast. If you use the alchemist's tools. You get those benefits. Full stop. Straight up.
Except the same permissive rules language enables it; multiple places in the rules refer to you being able to use something as a spellcasting focus, but a "spellcasting focus" is never defined beyond its name. Which means it's name is the definition, so it's an item for focusing your spellcasting, therefore if you're casting a spell you can use it, it just (normally) has no additional effect if there are no material components.
The idea that a caster wouldn't use a wand, staff etc. to cast magic if they have one to hand is patently absurd.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
If that were "clearly" the case it would be defined somewhere explicitly and say "you can never, ever under any circumstances use this to focus your spellcasting (please ignore the name entirely because that was just a troll on our part). It's just for giving you material components" rather than being defined as nothing but a name and then scattered around haphazardly.
You've already said it yourself, the rules are permissive meaning they'll specify when there are any restrictions. It's for this reason that you can use a shortsword to prop a door open, or to carefully cut a cake, because otherwise by your logic a sword, since it's a weapon, can only be used to make weapon attacks and literally can never be used for any other purpose, under any circumstances, ever.
But for a spellcasting focus we're not even talking about invented alternate uses; a spellcasting focus is for focusing your spellcasting, it's literally (and literarily) right there in the name. Focusing your spellcasting is what it's for. It doesn't matter that normally this gives you no added benefit. Allowing you to substitute material components is a separate condition of the material component rules.
The only reason you wouldn't use a spellcasting focus for a spell is when you need to perform a somatic component that can't be done while holding a focus in one hand, though even that's ridiculously poorly defined, as it's another common misconception that you always need a free (as in empty) hand for somatic components, but what the rules actually say is:
This is not the same as "the caster must have an empty hand". If for example you were to cast true strike, which only requires you to "point a finger at a target in range" then you can very clearly do this while holding a wand (as long your character holds it properly rather than clutching it in their fist like a monster). It's essentially telling you that it may be better not to have your fists trapped in cookie jars while attempting to cast spells.
Again, it's silly to assume that a caster would have a wand, staff etc. and not use it as much as physically possible, especially since levelled up versions like a wand of the war mage require you to be holding it basically all the time. The only real reason why you wouldn't always be holding a spellcasting focus is if you have other things you need both of your hands for.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I'm not bending the rules, because they're being called a "spellcasting focus" is literally 100% of their rules. Common sense dictates that what they are is what they're for; the name tells you everything you need to know.
The material components rule mentioning them as a way to supply uncosted material components is it's own separate thing; those are just the rules for material components, it has no bearing on whether you can use a spellcasting focus to focus your spellcasting.
The rabbit hole you seem to want to go down is assuming that no character in D&D can be wearing clothes, because [Tooltip Not Found] don't tell you how you can wear them, or that nobody can sit down because the only time chairs are mentioned is as improvised weapons and so-on. That's just not how the rules work at all.
But if you're going to accuse me of not being able to read then I'm happy to leave it there; because I've clearly more than made my case, with multiple citations to the actual rules.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Spellcasting and Focuses might be suited to a separate rules specific thread.
Yes, take it to Rules & Mechanics. We already had a thread there with someone claiming they could do particular stuff with Alchemical Savant based on the same assumption.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
The All-purpose tool is kind of an exception (as can be alchemist supplies and a focus with a nice bonus to attacks and saves). The problem is you might have to wait until the artificer crafting feature comes online at level 10.
my guess is that there will be an errata making "enhanced arcane focus" compatible but they just played it too safe. a really nit pick way would be the stirring rod of the alchemist supplies becomes the infusion but at that point your just better off asking for a homebrew rule.