My DM gave me an interesting challenge: come up with a reasonable method for rolling up the pay you receive each (week) for being a bard.
In my campaign, the DM wants us to spend time in the settlement . He needs a significant amount of time to pass so that new buildings are started and completed while we experience the adventure he has planned for us. He had us cool our heels in town for two months when we arrived and leveled up to level 2. At the end of those two months we went on an errand and returned at level 3. Now we are spending more time cooling our heels in town and we are each practicing our professions to earn money in that time. Just accept the idea that he wants lots of time to pass while we navigate this adventure.
Two of the players are smiths. They have been smithing weapons and earning money doing that. One of the players is an alchemist (Ranger) that wanters the woods picking up ingredients and making potions. She is making a pile of loot because she made something like twelve basic healing potions which she could sell for 50gp ea, but she agreed for the party to have them for 25gp each. So she made something like 400gp during that two month waiting period. I am a bard and our rogue is a "performer" attempting to pass himself off as a bard. Therefore we are both trying to earn money in a small community (~800 residents) as bards. Assuming my living expenses are covered by playing at the tavern, how much extra should a bard hope to make in a week? If comfortable living expenses are 2gp per day, I figure a bard might earn 10 extra gp per week.
Now, how do you write that up into a set of rules where the bard hopes to improve, hopes to play in more prestigious taverns, and has to compete with other bards?
I first figured there are only so many "positions" available for musicians and other performers to get the big jobs in town. The others might play in the market for tips and earn 2d4 in silver each 4-hour period, with 3 of those periods available each day; morning, afternoon and early evening. The best bards will receive an offer to play in a tavern all week. This offer will include all living expenses paid for whatever class of tavern this is. If you are a 2gp a day lifestyle, but you can only win the gig to play in the run-down tavern, then you only get 1gp / day in living expenses, and you have to pay the second gold just to maintain your lifestyle. But playing also allows you to earn something over and above the living expenses. How much?
I thought one factor would be the size of the settlement. A hamlet might earn him 1d3 in gold, a village might earn 1d4, a township might be 1d4+1 (or 1d6 ignore 6s and roll again), a town might be 1d6, and eventually you may get to 1d12 for playing in the capitol. But there will be numerous establishments in the capitol city and possibly only one tavern in the hamlet. How should I factor that in? I thought it could be a factor of 1 tavern per 800 residents (or 400, or whatever you like). The taverns would be graded like one to four-star places. Up to 3, all taverns are 1-star places. At 4, 1 of them is a 2-star and the others are 1-star. So maybe a square root would be a good way to handle that. But if you have sixteen taverns (12,800 residents!) then one of them is a 4-star place, seven of them are 3-star, five of them are 2-star and three of them are 1-star? That doesn't sound too bad, but if the population keeps growing are all the taverns going to be 4-star after that? Probably not. But since that is a very large city by D&D standards, let's just skip that question for now.
I guess a 2-star could be 1.5x the value of playing in a 1-star. And a 3-star might be 2x the value of playing in a 1-star, or maybe 1.5x the value of playing in a 2-star (2.25x a 1-star) and a 4-star might be 2.5x a 1-star (or 1.5x a 3-star, which would be 3.375x a 1-star). Somewhere in that ballpark anyway.
What sort of approach would you use? Maybe I'm just making this way too complicated and I should roll 2d4 in gold per week above living expenses and be satisfied with that. If I end up playing on the street I might roll 5d8 in silver per week. That makes it easier but seems less RP. I want to RP for the best gig. But I don't want to slow down the game to a snails pace for everyone else. Let me know if you have any interesting ideas.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I have run some numbers and I have come up with an interesting option that is easy to manage.
The basic formula is Nd# in gold per week or 1.5 x Nd# in silver per night (only used when staying a few days, otherwise compute weeks)
N is based on the size of the community because larger communities can draw more people that are likely to be able to pay more for the performance.
# = 3 for a Hamlet, =4 for a Village, = 5 for a Township, = 6 for a Town, = 7 for a County Seat, = 8 for a Small City, = 9 for a large City, = 10 for a Provincial Capitol & = 12 for the Capitol of the Realm
N = the performer's proficiency bonus in the Performance Skill
All values below the PCs general proficiency are raised to the players general proficiency bonus but not higher than the die size. For example, a level 1 bard performs one night in a village while traveling through the area with a proficiency bonus of +2 and a skill bonus in performance of +5 (Chr = 16). He would roll 5d4 and all rolls of 1 would be counted as 2s. Then he would multiply this number by 1.5 (and round down if needed) and earn that many silver pieces. If he rolled (1, 2, 3, 3, 4) it would be counted as (2, 2, 3, 3, 4) = 14. 1.5 x 14 = 21. The bard earns 21 pieces of silver that evening.
Later in his career, the same bard stops at the village and performs again. He is now level 12 with expertise in performance, and a Charisma of 18. His proficiency bonus is +4 and his skill modifier in performance is +12. Clearly this bard is a renowned performer in his own country. He rolls (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4) which is counted as all 4s = 48. 1.5 x 48 = 72. The bard receives 72 pieces of silver that evening.
Our renowned bard arrives in a City and plays for a week in the evenings in a tavern. Now he rolls 12d8 for (1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 7, 8) and with his minimum proficiency he increases the spots to (4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 7, 8) = 62. Our bard receives 62 gold for performing that week.
If he had not chosen performance for expertise, our level 12 bard with a Charisma of 18 would have a skill modifier in performance of +8, still quite a well known bard. He rolls 8d8 for (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8) which becomes (4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8) = 42. Our bard receives 42 gold for the week.
Our new bard would have rolled 5d8 for (1, 3, 5, 6, 8) which becomes (2, 3, 5, 6, 8) = 24 gold for the week.
I am also considering a +1 bonus if the PC is a local hero.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
You got that each night, in gold! My DM just isn't that generous.
One thing about these pursuits … the DM has to make sure it is more profitable to take risks and go adventuring.
With context, ours was a band of criminals at the time; my bard being one of the few "legitimate" members who wasn't an assassin or smuggler.
We were often too busy delivering stolen relics or running from vengeful crime lords to linger very long in taverns.
So these rolls happened infrequently, but when we did, it was often a surprise the DM would toss my way. It was a nice touch. Made my bard feel useful.
...then next morning, we had to leave town with the stolen goods.
I like the formula but the random element of quality of performance on any night seems to be missing. Instead of 1.5 why not have them roll a d20, 10 or less 1x, 11-17 1.5x, 18-20 2x or something like that.
d100 for percentage of people willing to give coin + Performance check = total percentage. (Caps at 100%)
Amount of coin given by each person (if you want to get specific:)
d4 divided by 2. (minimum 1)
I found that this reflects economy, environment, circumstance & skill while keeping the tips appropriately fair. People live in states of copper, silver or gold. Platinum is usually in the business or large purchases realm, not for tips. Keep in mind it's usually just side change, and people are aware the custom is free room food & drink from the Inn owner in exchange. I imagine the 4 & 5 star inns are difficult to get a spot in for performance unless you are known, or provide a perform check:
* = dc 5, ** = dc 10, *** = dc 15, **** = dc 20 & ***** = dc 25
If you belong to a bardic college or thieves' guild, they can attempt to vouch for your ability to perform at their establishment with a persuasion check or auto-pass instea, it's up to the dm.
Now that is high-speed. I'll have to take a closer look at it. I like the fact you take into account the economy and settlement size in addition to the bard's proficiency. I hope you and your folks enjoy the benefits of having a bard among them.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
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My DM gave me an interesting challenge: come up with a reasonable method for rolling up the pay you receive each (week) for being a bard.
In my campaign, the DM wants us to spend time in the settlement . He needs a significant amount of time to pass so that new buildings are started and completed while we experience the adventure he has planned for us. He had us cool our heels in town for two months when we arrived and leveled up to level 2. At the end of those two months we went on an errand and returned at level 3. Now we are spending more time cooling our heels in town and we are each practicing our professions to earn money in that time. Just accept the idea that he wants lots of time to pass while we navigate this adventure.
Two of the players are smiths. They have been smithing weapons and earning money doing that. One of the players is an alchemist (Ranger) that wanters the woods picking up ingredients and making potions. She is making a pile of loot because she made something like twelve basic healing potions which she could sell for 50gp ea, but she agreed for the party to have them for 25gp each. So she made something like 400gp during that two month waiting period. I am a bard and our rogue is a "performer" attempting to pass himself off as a bard. Therefore we are both trying to earn money in a small community (~800 residents) as bards. Assuming my living expenses are covered by playing at the tavern, how much extra should a bard hope to make in a week? If comfortable living expenses are 2gp per day, I figure a bard might earn 10 extra gp per week.
Now, how do you write that up into a set of rules where the bard hopes to improve, hopes to play in more prestigious taverns, and has to compete with other bards?
I first figured there are only so many "positions" available for musicians and other performers to get the big jobs in town. The others might play in the market for tips and earn 2d4 in silver each 4-hour period, with 3 of those periods available each day; morning, afternoon and early evening. The best bards will receive an offer to play in a tavern all week. This offer will include all living expenses paid for whatever class of tavern this is. If you are a 2gp a day lifestyle, but you can only win the gig to play in the run-down tavern, then you only get 1gp / day in living expenses, and you have to pay the second gold just to maintain your lifestyle. But playing also allows you to earn something over and above the living expenses. How much?
I thought one factor would be the size of the settlement. A hamlet might earn him 1d3 in gold, a village might earn 1d4, a township might be 1d4+1 (or 1d6 ignore 6s and roll again), a town might be 1d6, and eventually you may get to 1d12 for playing in the capitol. But there will be numerous establishments in the capitol city and possibly only one tavern in the hamlet. How should I factor that in? I thought it could be a factor of 1 tavern per 800 residents (or 400, or whatever you like). The taverns would be graded like one to four-star places. Up to 3, all taverns are 1-star places. At 4, 1 of them is a 2-star and the others are 1-star. So maybe a square root would be a good way to handle that. But if you have sixteen taverns (12,800 residents!) then one of them is a 4-star place, seven of them are 3-star, five of them are 2-star and three of them are 1-star? That doesn't sound too bad, but if the population keeps growing are all the taverns going to be 4-star after that? Probably not. But since that is a very large city by D&D standards, let's just skip that question for now.
I guess a 2-star could be 1.5x the value of playing in a 1-star. And a 3-star might be 2x the value of playing in a 1-star, or maybe 1.5x the value of playing in a 2-star (2.25x a 1-star) and a 4-star might be 2.5x a 1-star (or 1.5x a 3-star, which would be 3.375x a 1-star). Somewhere in that ballpark anyway.
What sort of approach would you use? Maybe I'm just making this way too complicated and I should roll 2d4 in gold per week above living expenses and be satisfied with that. If I end up playing on the street I might roll 5d8 in silver per week. That makes it easier but seems less RP. I want to RP for the best gig. But I don't want to slow down the game to a snails pace for everyone else. Let me know if you have any interesting ideas.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I have run some numbers and I have come up with an interesting option that is easy to manage.
The basic formula is Nd# in gold per week or 1.5 x Nd# in silver per night (only used when staying a few days, otherwise compute weeks)
N is based on the size of the community because larger communities can draw more people that are likely to be able to pay more for the performance.
# = 3 for a Hamlet, =4 for a Village, = 5 for a Township, = 6 for a Town, = 7 for a County Seat, = 8 for a Small City, = 9 for a large City, = 10 for a Provincial Capitol & = 12 for the Capitol of the Realm
N = the performer's proficiency bonus in the Performance Skill
All values below the PCs general proficiency are raised to the players general proficiency bonus but not higher than the die size. For example, a level 1 bard performs one night in a village while traveling through the area with a proficiency bonus of +2 and a skill bonus in performance of +5 (Chr = 16). He would roll 5d4 and all rolls of 1 would be counted as 2s. Then he would multiply this number by 1.5 (and round down if needed) and earn that many silver pieces. If he rolled (1, 2, 3, 3, 4) it would be counted as (2, 2, 3, 3, 4) = 14. 1.5 x 14 = 21. The bard earns 21 pieces of silver that evening.
Later in his career, the same bard stops at the village and performs again. He is now level 12 with expertise in performance, and a Charisma of 18. His proficiency bonus is +4 and his skill modifier in performance is +12. Clearly this bard is a renowned performer in his own country. He rolls (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4) which is counted as all 4s = 48. 1.5 x 48 = 72. The bard receives 72 pieces of silver that evening.
Our renowned bard arrives in a City and plays for a week in the evenings in a tavern. Now he rolls 12d8 for (1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 7, 8) and with his minimum proficiency he increases the spots to (4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 7, 8) = 62. Our bard receives 62 gold for performing that week.
If he had not chosen performance for expertise, our level 12 bard with a Charisma of 18 would have a skill modifier in performance of +8, still quite a well known bard. He rolls 8d8 for (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8) which becomes (4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8) = 42. Our bard receives 42 gold for the week.
Our new bard would have rolled 5d8 for (1, 3, 5, 6, 8) which becomes (2, 3, 5, 6, 8) = 24 gold for the week.
I am also considering a +1 bonus if the PC is a local hero.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Roll a d20 a night.
Add the "Performance" modifier to whatever is rolled, if proficient.
Double it for swanky noble galas.
This was more or less how my DM did it.
Add the "Entertainer" for free room and food, and it was one of the more fun ways to roleplay a bard, actually.
Fighters have their swords, Wizards have their books...Bards get gigs.
Best part of being a bard. Free lodging if you perform in the tavern.
Tony,
You got that each night, in gold! My DM just isn't that generous.
One thing about these pursuits … the DM has to make sure it is more profitable to take risks and go adventuring.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
With context, ours was a band of criminals at the time; my bard being one of the few "legitimate" members who wasn't an assassin or smuggler.
We were often too busy delivering stolen relics or running from vengeful crime lords to linger very long in taverns.
So these rolls happened infrequently, but when we did, it was often a surprise the DM would toss my way. It was a nice touch. Made my bard feel useful.
...then next morning, we had to leave town with the stolen goods.
I like the formula but the random element of quality of performance on any night seems to be missing. Instead of 1.5 why not have them roll a d20, 10 or less 1x, 11-17 1.5x, 18-20 2x or something like that.
1-5 1x, 6-10 1.25x, 11-19 1.5x, 20 2x
(Per evening)
Amount of people:
roadside inn
d8 customers renting
village
d8 customers renting + d6 customers
keep
20 + 2d20 guards
town
d10 customers renting + d10 regulars
city
d12 customers renting + d6 regulars + d6 customers
metropolis
d20 customers renting + d10 regulars + d4 customers
Coin on customers to quality of the inn ratio:
* = copper
** = silver
*** = electrum
**** = gold
***** = gold
Willingness to give:
d100 for percentage of people willing to give coin + Performance check = total percentage. (Caps at 100%)
Amount of coin given by each person (if you want to get specific:)
d4 divided by 2. (minimum 1)
I found that this reflects economy, environment, circumstance & skill while keeping the tips appropriately fair. People live in states of copper, silver or gold. Platinum is usually in the business or large purchases realm, not for tips. Keep in mind it's usually just side change, and people are aware the custom is free room food & drink from the Inn owner in exchange. I imagine the 4 & 5 star inns are difficult to get a spot in for performance unless you are known, or provide a perform check:
* = dc 5, ** = dc 10, *** = dc 15, **** = dc 20 & ***** = dc 25
If you belong to a bardic college or thieves' guild, they can attempt to vouch for your ability to perform at their establishment with a persuasion check or auto-pass instea, it's up to the dm.
Hope this helps!
Lily,
Now that is high-speed. I'll have to take a closer look at it. I like the fact you take into account the economy and settlement size in addition to the bard's proficiency. I hope you and your folks enjoy the benefits of having a bard among them.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt