I am attempting to override my Tabaxi Thief's climb speed, thanks to Second Story Work, and the new value I enter (30 ft.) is not overwriting the default 20 ft. climb speed. This is also happening with Tritons and swim speed, so I suspect there's a problem with all non-walking speeds that have a racial or similar, non-zero value.
Alright so this is going to be kind of a longer explanation as this wasn't just a simple fix. Speed is one of the more complicated things we calculate because of how it is influenced. We had to have a discussion on the rules and how we currently had them implemented and decided we needed to make adjustments to it. The fix for this is queued up and should be rolled out soon.
So the first callout is that the overrides in the sheet were for "Base" speed overrides. This concept was not clear enough and didn't follow consistency with how we did overrides in all the other situations that were similar to this. Basically what was happening was that we had a modifier on Tabaxi's that was "Set > Speed (Climbing)" to a value of 20 ft. And the override in that box was setting the "Base" speed to 30. The "Set" modifier took precedence and would always override any base speed override you specified. We did it this way for a variety of reasons where you could have multiple influences for speeds and you need highest one to win out, and then certain kinds of bonuses would not affect the speeds that were there showing because a "Set" modifier existed. This also meant that Aarakocra's flying speed couldnt be affected by armor penalties, unarmored bonuses, or flat bonuses from Barbarian's Fast Movement class feature.
We decided to just game out all the possibilities and we found we needed to create a distinction in the two cases of what we are trying to do with modifiers. Setting the innate character speed, setting the speed of the character (that could be lower than an innate speed), and then allow a be all, end all override of a speed in the Speed Management UI (The current "Override Base Speed" section)
Renamed Old: Speed (Walking) => Speed (this was a clarification fix an implied speed bonus to all speed types we were assuming with this modifier)
Added New: Speed (Walking)
New rules for how speed is calculated
1. If there are any overrides from the Character Sheet Speed Management UI, override the <MovementType> speed 2. If you are in "Push, Drag, Lift" set all speeds to 5 3a. Get all "Set > Speed (<MovementType>)" modifiers, and find the highest value 3b. If nothing from 3a, get all "Set > Innate Speed (<MovementType>)" modifiers, and race <MovementType> value and find the highest value 3c. If your speed from 3b is 0, don't do anything else 3d. If your speed from 3b is not 0, find all armor speed adjustments and "Bonus > Speed (<MovementType>)" modifiers and add them to 3b value 3e. Apply any variant encumbrance penalties and make sure speeds don't go below 0 4. If there are any modifiers with "Set > Innate Speed (<MovementType>)" with an empty value, mirror the walking speed for that <MovementType>
Amazing Effort, Its great to sometimes be able to see the inner workings that the devs get up to. It hopefully allows other people to see the amount of effort that you sometimes have to go through to get something 'simple' working
I have also a "speed" problem with a character from one of my players. We created a 5th level human bard for her and after the charakter was ready and I checked the stats, I realised that every movement type was set to 5. I tried to override it, I tried to change the class - nothing worked.
Today - after reading that there was a bug and that it is fixed - I tried everything again and it still did not work.
Some ideas on this? Please use simple language, cause I'm a German guy and my skills in English are limited. 😉
Edit: I solved the problem. The character had too many items. But that leads to a new problem:
The character has a "bag of holding", but this is not counted in the maximum load, and the resulting speed.
I have also a "speed" problem with a character from one of my players. We created a 5th level human bard for her and after the charakter was ready and I checked the stats, I realised that every movement type was set to 5. I tried to override it, I tried to change the class - nothing worked.
Today - after reading that there was a bug and that it is fixed - I tried everything again and it still did not work.
Some ideas on this? Please use simple language, cause I'm a German guy and my skills in English are limited. 😉
Edit: I solved the problem. The character had too many items. But that leads to a new problem:
The character has a "bag of holding", but this is not counted in the maximum load, and the resulting speed.
We definitely have our eye on ways to improve this in multiple ways. Both from a grouping perspective, an encumbrance perspective, and then surfacing that you are currently encumbered much better. All I can say right now is that if the encumbrance rules are getting in the way of your speed calculations, you can turn it off in the builder on the "Home" section where there is a preference for "Encumbrance Type" and set it to "No Encumbrance".
Sorry about the confusion, and we hope to improve this!
We always appreciate the report. I just wanted to make sure I explained the changes thoroughly after all the internal discussions we had. Especially since we were going to be changing how the underlying data is structured for the people who create custom homebrew. Please keep the reports coming :)
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I am attempting to override my Tabaxi Thief's climb speed, thanks to Second Story Work, and the new value I enter (30 ft.) is not overwriting the default 20 ft. climb speed. This is also happening with Tritons and swim speed, so I suspect there's a problem with all non-walking speeds that have a racial or similar, non-zero value.
Any update/response for this bug?
Really - no one? :-/
Edit: Thanks, filcat!
Marked as bug.
Alright so this is going to be kind of a longer explanation as this wasn't just a simple fix. Speed is one of the more complicated things we calculate because of how it is influenced. We had to have a discussion on the rules and how we currently had them implemented and decided we needed to make adjustments to it. The fix for this is queued up and should be rolled out soon.
So the first callout is that the overrides in the sheet were for "Base" speed overrides. This concept was not clear enough and didn't follow consistency with how we did overrides in all the other situations that were similar to this. Basically what was happening was that we had a modifier on Tabaxi's that was "Set > Speed (Climbing)" to a value of 20 ft. And the override in that box was setting the "Base" speed to 30. The "Set" modifier took precedence and would always override any base speed override you specified. We did it this way for a variety of reasons where you could have multiple influences for speeds and you need highest one to win out, and then certain kinds of bonuses would not affect the speeds that were there showing because a "Set" modifier existed. This also meant that Aarakocra's flying speed couldnt be affected by armor penalties, unarmored bonuses, or flat bonuses from Barbarian's Fast Movement class feature.
We decided to just game out all the possibilities and we found we needed to create a distinction in the two cases of what we are trying to do with modifiers. Setting the innate character speed, setting the speed of the character (that could be lower than an innate speed), and then allow a be all, end all override of a speed in the Speed Management UI (The current "Override Base Speed" section)
Here are the modifiers that have changed:
Modifier Type Set
Modifier Type Bonus
New rules for how speed is calculated
1. If there are any overrides from the Character Sheet Speed Management UI, override the <MovementType> speed
2. If you are in "Push, Drag, Lift" set all speeds to 5
3a. Get all "Set > Speed (<MovementType>)" modifiers, and find the highest value
3b. If nothing from 3a, get all "Set > Innate Speed (<MovementType>)" modifiers, and race <MovementType> value and find the highest value
3c. If your speed from 3b is 0, don't do anything else
3d. If your speed from 3b is not 0, find all armor speed adjustments and "Bonus > Speed (<MovementType>)" modifiers and add them to 3b value
3e. Apply any variant encumbrance penalties and make sure speeds don't go below 0
4. If there are any modifiers with "Set > Innate Speed (<MovementType>)" with an empty value, mirror the walking speed for that <MovementType>
Heh, this stuff is never simple or easy. Unfortunately for you devs, we only usually get to see the tip of the iceberg.
Amazing Effort, Its great to sometimes be able to see the inner workings that the devs get up to. It hopefully allows other people to see the amount of effort that you sometimes have to go through to get something 'simple' working
Thanks for all the hard work
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I have also a "speed" problem with a character from one of my players. We created a 5th level human bard for her and after the charakter was ready and I checked the stats, I realised that every movement type was set to 5. I tried to override it, I tried to change the class - nothing worked.
Today - after reading that there was a bug and that it is fixed - I tried everything again and it still did not work.
Some ideas on this? Please use simple language, cause I'm a German guy and my skills in English are limited. 😉
Edit: I solved the problem. The character had too many items. But that leads to a new problem:
The character has a "bag of holding", but this is not counted in the maximum load, and the resulting speed.
Wow, did not expect my bug report to create such a conversation and revamping of the system. So in that regard, I both apologize and thank you!
We always appreciate the report. I just wanted to make sure I explained the changes thoroughly after all the internal discussions we had. Especially since we were going to be changing how the underlying data is structured for the people who create custom homebrew. Please keep the reports coming :)