I have a level 2 player that just showed up a 20+ AC because they were able to choose to replicate Smoldering Plate Armor with one of their infusions. They had studded leather with their starting equipment but are arguing there is nothing written that says the armor needs to be of the same type before it's infused. Does an artificer need Plate armor in order to create smoldering plate armor or can they just pick up a rock and 'magically recreate a magical item'?
Granted, the language is limited to the item being 'among the common magic items', and there is no wording on what the magical item is being crafted from. D&D Beyond has let me set leather armor as the component for smoldering plate armor with no issue.
I believe that the “replicate magic item” description requires that the artificer have the required base item to infuse. The relevant rule text is “see the item's description on the DMG for more information about it, including the type of object required for its making."
So you need a bag for a Bag of Holding, boots for winged boots, etc. I don’t know the base required for smoldering plate armor, but it would seem likely to be plate armor.
Your player could get smoldering studded leather, if you are going to broadly interpret the magic item. That seems reasonable.
An infusion works on only certain kinds of objects, as specified in the infusion’s description.
So I'd say based on this already he'd need plate armor if he wants Smoldering Plate Armor. It'd be one thing if there wasn't a nonmagical item that matched, but this is pretty clear there is a nonmagical item that exists to fit exactly what this infusion requires.
Next the Smoldering "Plate" Armor thing he's taking advantage is actually more of a "coding" problem. If you look up magic items outside of the character editor and just look it up in the magic item database, it actually is just "Smoldering Armor". So more accurately the infusion is giving you the "smoldering" effect and not changing the armor type. dndbeyond just needs to code out each single armor in the dropdown which is why it shows up that way in the character editor. Take the example of the Resilient feat which if you go to the editor lists out one for each ability, but in all reality is just a single feat which you aren't allowed to take more than once.
I believe this may be what you are looking for (the last paragraph of the replicate entry):
In the tables, an item’s entry tells you whether the item requires attunement. See the item’s description in the Dungeon Master’s Guide for more information about it, including the type of object required for its making.
I take that to mean we are supposed to have an item (or items) as a "prerequisite" like the other options, but more specific. My DM has not enforced this, but I also have not made anything other than bags of holding (when we start with a pack of some sort in most cases).
The Artificer's Infusion class feature is unfortunately prone to edge case loopholes like this, especially as the feature does not include the usual caveat of "your DM has the final say". As a DM, you have the final say regardless as per Rule Zero, and no reasonable DM would likely rule that one could turn cheap throwaway whatever armor into platemail with an infusion. I would allow this player to select a different infusion, no harm no foul, but I would not permit this player to turn leather into plate. Smoldering platemail is magicked platemail, not just magicked whatever-armor.
Studded Leather - Made from tough but flexible leather, studded leather is reinforced with close-set rivets or spikes.
Plate - Plate consists of shaped, interlocking metal plates to cover the entire body. A suit of plate includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and thick layers of padding underneath the armor. Buckles and straps distribute the weight over the body.
Last Paragraph from the Infusation section of the Replicate Item portion - In the tables, an item’s entry tells you whether the item requires attunement. See the item’s description in the Dungeon Master’s Guide for more information about it, including the type of object required for its making.
This is all the information you need. It requires an item to replicate the magical properties into it. So with that said, the only question to yourself is, does a leather base armor with next to none in metal on it and only covering the torso really, able to be transformed into plate in your mind?
If you want to appear the player as working with and avoid straight up saying "No", that is up to you, a good way to do this and to avoid just saying "sure, why not, do whatever", is to say you can achieve this, IF you find other parts to complete the assemble and metal. It's a lot of work, but that's the point. You are avoiding saying the word "No", but making the task not worth it in the end, but in a reasonable way. In this case, part of boots, straps, gloves, more straps, and biggest part is metal and here you can even say you can use whatever metal you want (Weapons, other armor, etc) and have it be what you equate to plate armor. At that point, they can do the infusion as one, magically molding it all together and making it be plate. I would also keep a list of all the stuff the player used to make said plate armor from infusion, because once it ends, you can make a nice funny scene of just a bunch of random stuff falling off the player for no ungodly reason.
At the end of the day, quite frankly, those specific infusions (Smoldering, etc) are overall worthless. Unless, you do some wild task like above, to actually grant the possibility to change the overall armor to something else, it gives nothing. It is magical, so it'll help in whatever way that relates to you having magical items (like the Artificers Lv 20 ability), but that's it.
Firstly I'm pretty sure that picking that type of replicate magic items, that you get the "generic variant" which makes you able to apply the effect on any type of associated base items , armor in this case. - (not sure why multiple options on dndbeyond since there also is the base version as a choice, guessing it's a relic, or a fix to make something interact with it.)
Secondly: To use the infusion, you are still required to imbue it into a nonmagical object, that is of the certain type of object stated in the infusion's description. Which is also mentioned at the end of the replicate magic item description
"In the tables, an item's entry tells you whether the item requires attunement. See the item's description in the Dungeon Master's Guide for more information about it, including the type of object required for its making."
Looking in the book it's only listed as the generic variant, with the object required "Armor (any)" (dndbeyond also got a list of applicable armors in the description of item). So in order to use the infusion, it needs to be applied to a nonmagical armor.
For me the DM takes and interprets rules as they see fit and they are a guide
1. I would allow the player to turn the said studded leather to smouldering plate especially if they whine a lot
2. Every-time someone hits the plate armour hard as in the attack roll is above AC10 say but below AC20 ask the player in the armour to roll a d6 don't say why, just say roll and if its a 1 let me know
3. On a roll of a 1, ask the player to roll 20d6+20 this is the blast/fire damage from the armour burning/exploding in a wonderful magical napalm malfunction
4. Player has now had a memorable experience which they can cherish and gets the pleasure of rolling up a new character, DM can also enjoy the moment - chicken dinner everyones a winner
-- a cruel DM would have a 30' radius blast radius but being a lenient, nice, player friendly, DM keep it to the sucker wearing the armour
If you wanted to lower the curse effect, you apply Heat Metal for any criticals against the armor. And if you want to be balanced, it could impose Heat Metal on the player's opponents for melee criticals. Heat Metal seems consistent with the smoldering idea.
Maybe I'm missing something, there is nothing in Tasha's about smouldering anything. It's not on the replicable item list, and it's not a general infusion. Is it in AU?
Maybe I'm missing something, there is nothing in Tasha's about smouldering anything. It's not on the replicable item list, and it's not a general infusion. Is it in AU?
You can use those tables OR any common item as stated in the Replicate Magic Item section.
They had studded leather with their starting equipment but are arguing there is nothing written that says the armor needs to be of the same type before it's infused. Does an artificer need Plate armor in order to create smoldering plate armor or can they just pick up a rock and 'magically recreate a magical item'?
Granted, the language is limited to the item being 'among the common magic items', and there is no wording on what the magical item is being crafted from.
D&D Beyond has let me set leather armor as the component for smoldering plate armor with no issue.
Is this how this works? This seems... insane.
I believe that the “replicate magic item” description requires that the artificer have the required base item to infuse. The relevant rule text is “see the item's description on the DMG for more information about it, including the type of object required for its making."
So you need a bag for a Bag of Holding, boots for winged boots, etc. I don’t know the base required for smoldering plate armor, but it would seem likely to be plate armor.
Your player could get smoldering studded leather, if you are going to broadly interpret the magic item. That seems reasonable.
A few things I'd say need to be taken note of.
So I'd say based on this already he'd need plate armor if he wants Smoldering Plate Armor. It'd be one thing if there wasn't a nonmagical item that matched, but this is pretty clear there is a nonmagical item that exists to fit exactly what this infusion requires.
Next the Smoldering "Plate" Armor thing he's taking advantage is actually more of a "coding" problem. If you look up magic items outside of the character editor and just look it up in the magic item database, it actually is just "Smoldering Armor". So more accurately the infusion is giving you the "smoldering" effect and not changing the armor type. dndbeyond just needs to code out each single armor in the dropdown which is why it shows up that way in the character editor. Take the example of the Resilient feat which if you go to the editor lists out one for each ability, but in all reality is just a single feat which you aren't allowed to take more than once.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/you-cant-take-resilient-feat-more-than-once/
If you want more insight -> https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/160925/does-the-item-you-apply-the-replicate-magic-item-infusion-change-its-shape-to-fi
Also here is someone that asked a similar question -> https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/artificer/104724-will-i-need-an-empty-hand-to-use-my-spell-casting
I believe this may be what you are looking for (the last paragraph of the replicate entry):
I take that to mean we are supposed to have an item (or items) as a "prerequisite" like the other options, but more specific. My DM has not enforced this, but I also have not made anything other than bags of holding (when we start with a pack of some sort in most cases).
The Artificer's Infusion class feature is unfortunately prone to edge case loopholes like this, especially as the feature does not include the usual caveat of "your DM has the final say". As a DM, you have the final say regardless as per Rule Zero, and no reasonable DM would likely rule that one could turn cheap throwaway whatever armor into platemail with an infusion. I would allow this player to select a different infusion, no harm no foul, but I would not permit this player to turn leather into plate. Smoldering platemail is magicked platemail, not just magicked whatever-armor.
Please do not contact or message me.
Studded Leather - Made from tough but flexible leather, studded leather is reinforced with close-set rivets or spikes.
Plate - Plate consists of shaped, interlocking metal plates to cover the entire body. A suit of plate includes gauntlets, heavy leather boots, a visored helmet, and thick layers of padding underneath the armor. Buckles and straps distribute the weight over the body.
Last Paragraph from the Infusation section of the Replicate Item portion - In the tables, an item’s entry tells you whether the item requires attunement. See the item’s description in the Dungeon Master’s Guide for more information about it, including the type of object required for its making.
This is all the information you need. It requires an item to replicate the magical properties into it. So with that said, the only question to yourself is, does a leather base armor with next to none in metal on it and only covering the torso really, able to be transformed into plate in your mind?
If you want to appear the player as working with and avoid straight up saying "No", that is up to you, a good way to do this and to avoid just saying "sure, why not, do whatever", is to say you can achieve this, IF you find other parts to complete the assemble and metal. It's a lot of work, but that's the point. You are avoiding saying the word "No", but making the task not worth it in the end, but in a reasonable way. In this case, part of boots, straps, gloves, more straps, and biggest part is metal and here you can even say you can use whatever metal you want (Weapons, other armor, etc) and have it be what you equate to plate armor. At that point, they can do the infusion as one, magically molding it all together and making it be plate. I would also keep a list of all the stuff the player used to make said plate armor from infusion, because once it ends, you can make a nice funny scene of just a bunch of random stuff falling off the player for no ungodly reason.
At the end of the day, quite frankly, those specific infusions (Smoldering, etc) are overall worthless. Unless, you do some wild task like above, to actually grant the possibility to change the overall armor to something else, it gives nothing. It is magical, so it'll help in whatever way that relates to you having magical items (like the Artificers Lv 20 ability), but that's it.
Firstly I'm pretty sure that picking that type of replicate magic items, that you get the "generic variant" which makes you able to apply the effect on any type of associated base items , armor in this case. - (not sure why multiple options on dndbeyond since there also is the base version as a choice, guessing it's a relic, or a fix to make something interact with it.)
Secondly: To use the infusion, you are still required to imbue it into a nonmagical object, that is of the certain type of object stated in the infusion's description. Which is also mentioned at the end of the replicate magic item description
"In the tables, an item's entry tells you whether the item requires attunement. See the item's description in the Dungeon Master's Guide for more information about it, including the type of object required for its making."
Looking in the book it's only listed as the generic variant, with the object required "Armor (any)" (dndbeyond also got a list of applicable armors in the description of item).
So in order to use the infusion, it needs to be applied to a nonmagical armor.
Nothing says that the Artificer is the one that will wear the armor.
For me the DM takes and interprets rules as they see fit and they are a guide
1. I would allow the player to turn the said studded leather to smouldering plate especially if they whine a lot
2. Every-time someone hits the plate armour hard as in the attack roll is above AC10 say but below AC20 ask the player in the armour to roll a d6 don't say why, just say roll and if its a 1 let me know
3. On a roll of a 1, ask the player to roll 20d6+20 this is the blast/fire damage from the armour burning/exploding in a wonderful magical napalm malfunction
4. Player has now had a memorable experience which they can cherish and gets the pleasure of rolling up a new character, DM can also enjoy the moment - chicken dinner everyones a winner
-- a cruel DM would have a 30' radius blast radius but being a lenient, nice, player friendly, DM keep it to the sucker wearing the armour
If you wanted to lower the curse effect, you apply Heat Metal for any criticals against the armor. And if you want to be balanced, it could impose Heat Metal on the player's opponents for melee criticals. Heat Metal seems consistent with the smoldering idea.
Maybe I'm missing something, there is nothing in Tasha's about smouldering anything. It's not on the replicable item list, and it's not a general infusion. Is it in AU?
You can use those tables OR any common item as stated in the Replicate Magic Item section.
We need your sage advice on Gleaming Plate too, or they might spend a class infusion to have one more point of AC than a Tortle.