I was playing around with a new approach for the Alchemist artificer to produce potions, and I wanted to get some feedback. Infusions generally arent designed to apply to consumable options, like potions or scrolls, but I think I found a way to make it feel worthwhile. Let me know what you think
Bottomless Vial
3rd-level & 9th level Alchemist feature, which replaces the Experimental Elixir feature
Experienced in the study and understanding of varying concoctions and mixtures, you are able to recreate their effects. Starting at 3rd level, whenever you learn the Replicate Magic Item infusion, you can use it to replicate the effects of a potion of Common or Uncommon rarity available in the Dungeon Master's Guide (or another source at the DM's discretion). Applying this infusion requires an empty vial or other tiny container, such as a bottle or waterskin. The contents of the infused vial can be consumed, granting the effect of the potion as normal.
While infused, the vial has a number of charges equal to your Intelligence modifier. As a bonus action, you can expend one charge to cause the vial, if empty, to refill with the same potion. The vial regains all expended charges whenever you complete a long rest.
Starting at 9th level, when you learn the Replicate Magic Item infusion you can replicate the effects of a potion of Rare or Very Rare rarity as well. For potions of either of these rarity, the infused vial has a number of charges equal to half your Intelligence modifier (rounded up).
There would also need to be a change made to Restorative Reagents at 9th level, but this could be as simple as having the same effect apply to creatures that drink a potion produce by your infusion rather than an experimental elixir.
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Honestly I would absolutely not used this feature. Instead of gaining a few elixirs, it would now require an infusion known, and infusion used. Sure you can get one specific potion a few times which is nice. But it eats a ton of other class abilities when the class is already kind of swamped. I.e. this would effectively mean you can't use it yourself or give to others infusions (like armour or magic weapons). I suppose you could do as the armorer and gain free infusions known/use but restrict them to the potions specifically. but . Even more so, you now have to functionally carry enough vials or other containers. Always now. With normal elixir its handwaved via alchemical tools and such. Additionally it can be broken (vials are not sturdy) or loss throughout the day. off. There is also an issue of action economy bonus to refil action to drink, item interaction to retireve. Then you can't put it away that round. Plus, this ability loses the ability to hand them out. You can presumably give 1 person the bottle but your allies cannot just carry their own backup of it. LIke they could of an elixir of healing (which post lv 9 is not a terrible emergency item). As a long term alchemist there actually have been more than a few situations where it was a good thing I had given the rogue a flight, or that other player a healing+temp hp, etc.
If it was just "choose proficiency amount of recipes known, and you chose one each morning to replicate" and had 0 interaction with infusions it would be a bit more interesting. Make it automatically refill, and just be a bonus action to consume maybe.. However, you would want to add a line that the vial could be used as a spellcasting focus and replace the need for the alchemist tools at lv 5 ability-though at this point we come back to the issue of handing it Ultimtely though, I would rather it just be able to pour out X amount of potions rather than the potion consumption being restricted to the actual item in question
All of this said though. I still think I'd actually just prefer the base 6 choices. Get Profiency amount each morning of your choice (everything else now goes by profiency amount), when you spend a spell slot to make more you make prociency amount (this allows the alchemist to be a more solidified supportive). and make them a bonus action to consume (or extend the durations but I'd rather be shorter and bonus actions IMO. With all the previous changes you could just make everything last only 1min realistically, except for the 10ft flight. I would just mke that 1 hour for convience, 10ft speed is very slow, and at mid to high level there are many items that do it better or faster or longer). This would make them widely usable, and have enough amounts to really be a good use of spell slots in mid to late game.
(sidenote. if you are hombrewing alchemists, as one who plays them only only. I would honestly suggest you rejigger the lv 5 Savant abilty. Give the alchemsit 1 more known cantrip from any class, with the restricted damage types. And add a line that any infusions count as alchemist tools for the purpose. As it is a real issue they have to carry the tools in hand to gain any bonuses, while the other subclasses can combine with infusions or weapons etc. )
I mean... I don't see any reason why just flat out adding this as a potential infusion would hurt ... but wouldn't say its a good replacement for Experimental Elixer. At level 3, you're feeling the crunch of infusion options, especially since homunculus is practically necessary at this point for alchemist. This is something no other subclass needs to do.
This will effectively grants you extra level 2 spell slots which, if you only take one infusion, isn't bad. Its not worse than a bard at the early levels. The problem is that you've effectively plateaued. Alchemist wants to be a support-based subclass, but they won't be getting the equivalent of Haste magic until level 9. That's PAINFUL.
One of the problems with the alchemist is that potions themselves are difficult to use - they either need perfect pre-combat timing, waste an entire action to drink, or be unconscious. This is just terrible action economy all around, and feels bad. This feature swap doesn't really address this problem, so you're still going to feel that action crunch.
There's a distinct lack of a strong turn-by-turn option that other half-casters, even other Artificer subclasses, don't have a problem with. Cantrip + Homunculus just doesn't compare to anything a warlock, ranger or paladin can do.
So, this feature... Its not bad as an addition, but I wouldn't say that I'd like this to work as the key subclass feature. Still too many issues.
It's a nice idea, and I'd love to see it as an infusion, but I don't think it really helps the Alchemist.
The Experimental Elixirs themselves aren't the problem, the problem is that you can't get predictable elixirs as standard. Personally I'd just double the number of elixirs an alchemist can make (as one is pretty low for a 3rd-level feature) and make half of them predictable. So at 3rd you can choose one, and randomise one, at 6th you choose two, randomise two, and at 15th you choose three, randomise three.
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Lets see if I can remember all the issues of the alchemist that need addressing....
1- initial randomness of Experimental Elixer, easily fixed
2- bad scaling. the elixers themselves aren't terrible, but they're the same effects throughout your adventuring career; you have to wait until level 9 to get the equivalent of Haste until level 9. The healing does get better, but not Mass Healing Word better. Your damage is also not that great in terms of scaling. Cantrip+homunculus isn't bad at level 2, and its alright at level 5, but you're never really going to be improving it beyond that. No feats, no magic item enhancements, no tier 3 or 4 damage boost beyond an extra cantrip die, putting you behind literally everyone else.
3- reliance on spell slots. no other subclass has this issue. As a half-caster, this makes you come off as a worse cleric. It also notable that your core feature doesn't scale with spell slot level. It also means that there's no turn-by-turn effect like everyone else. Artillerist can spam Protector for free healing every round, or bursts of flame, or a force blast that a warlock's eldritch blast would approve of. Alchemists need to invest in an infusion for something to do, and even then they're cantrips spamming. Artillerist can use their subclass features alongside spells, whereas alchemists need spell slots for their feature, so spell slots are limited.
4- terrible action economy. One action to make an elixer, someone else needs to use their actions to down it. A waste of two actions, which is terrible in combat.
5- limited to alchemist tools, limited to fire, poison, acid, necrotic damage. Which isn't terrible, but it does mean the arcane implement doesn't work, and you might have trouble with fiends. The former is easily fixed, but it shouldn't need to be fixed, and the latter is oddly restrictive, given the alchemist spell list.
6- For a themed cantrips caster, its also a bit annoying how few cantrips you get. Most likely, you're going to want Mending along with a homunculus, then an attack cantrip, then that's it until level 10. Heaven forbid you run into something resistant or immune to your singular attack option.
as an extra note for the limited damage. the d amage doesn't make sense either for what you have.. for instance the only necrotic spell is Blight, given by the class itself at 4th level. this does tie into th cantrip as well..
Which is why I am a big supporter of the level 3 elixirs being profiency per day (your choice), then 1 slot = make profiency amount or 1/2 proficiency (if you think its too strong to get full profiency... i really don't think so), making elixirs shorter lasting but a bonus action to consume. Then at level 3, and again at level 5, you get 1 free cantrip chosen from any other class, but it must be restricted to the damage types you are restricted to. Remove "alchemsit tools only" requirement and make it "alchemist tools or infusions" the restricted damage is already enough.
I don't think the later abilities need much of any change. Though IMO the spells do. but thats another discussion.
but the above lets them solidly be in a "hand out buffs that others can use" "back up emergency heals" "solid consistent damage" but not hamper them with the handedness issue from the Tools.
The elixirs are pretty decent, they just are too expensive in terms of spell slot and action economy. Fixing those details makes them quite nice to have around. The flight should stay 10m but the rest should just be 1min length.
edit: On the extra cantrips. they really should get chill touch, or toll the dead at the least. Those provide such utility or good solid damage for a primary caster type. Addiitonally having primal savegry would give them a close range cantrip option. Which lets them get out of the dagger for green flame blade
I was playing around with a new approach for the Alchemist artificer to produce potions, and I wanted to get some feedback. Infusions generally arent designed to apply to consumable options, like potions or scrolls, but I think I found a way to make it feel worthwhile. Let me know what you think
There would also need to be a change made to Restorative Reagents at 9th level, but this could be as simple as having the same effect apply to creatures that drink a potion produce by your infusion rather than an experimental elixir.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Honestly I would absolutely not used this feature. Instead of gaining a few elixirs, it would now require an infusion known, and infusion used. Sure you can get one specific potion a few times which is nice. But it eats a ton of other class abilities when the class is already kind of swamped. I.e. this would effectively mean you can't use it yourself or give to others infusions (like armour or magic weapons). I suppose you could do as the armorer and gain free infusions known/use but restrict them to the potions specifically. but . Even more so, you now have to functionally carry enough vials or other containers. Always now. With normal elixir its handwaved via alchemical tools and such.
Additionally it can be broken (vials are not sturdy) or loss throughout the day. off. There is also an issue of action economy bonus to refil action to drink, item interaction to retireve. Then you can't put it away that round. Plus, this ability loses the ability to hand them out. You can presumably give 1 person the bottle but your allies cannot just carry their own backup of it. LIke they could of an elixir of healing (which post lv 9 is not a terrible emergency item). As a long term alchemist there actually have been more than a few situations where it was a good thing I had given the rogue a flight, or that other player a healing+temp hp, etc.
If it was just "choose proficiency amount of recipes known, and you chose one each morning to replicate" and had 0 interaction with infusions it would be a bit more interesting. Make it automatically refill, and just be a bonus action to consume maybe.. However, you would want to add a line that the vial could be used as a spellcasting focus and replace the need for the alchemist tools at lv 5 ability-though at this point we come back to the issue of handing it Ultimtely though, I would rather it just be able to pour out X amount of potions rather than the potion consumption being restricted to the actual item in question
All of this said though. I still think I'd actually just prefer the base 6 choices. Get Profiency amount each morning of your choice (everything else now goes by profiency amount), when you spend a spell slot to make more you make prociency amount (this allows the alchemist to be a more solidified supportive). and make them a bonus action to consume (or extend the durations but I'd rather be shorter and bonus actions IMO. With all the previous changes you could just make everything last only 1min realistically, except for the 10ft flight. I would just mke that 1 hour for convience, 10ft speed is very slow, and at mid to high level there are many items that do it better or faster or longer).
This would make them widely usable, and have enough amounts to really be a good use of spell slots in mid to late game.
(sidenote. if you are hombrewing alchemists, as one who plays them only only. I would honestly suggest you rejigger the lv 5 Savant abilty. Give the alchemsit 1 more known cantrip from any class, with the restricted damage types. And add a line that any infusions count as alchemist tools for the purpose. As it is a real issue they have to carry the tools in hand to gain any bonuses, while the other subclasses can combine with infusions or weapons etc. )
I mean... I don't see any reason why just flat out adding this as a potential infusion would hurt ... but wouldn't say its a good replacement for Experimental Elixer. At level 3, you're feeling the crunch of infusion options, especially since homunculus is practically necessary at this point for alchemist. This is something no other subclass needs to do.
This will effectively grants you extra level 2 spell slots which, if you only take one infusion, isn't bad. Its not worse than a bard at the early levels. The problem is that you've effectively plateaued. Alchemist wants to be a support-based subclass, but they won't be getting the equivalent of Haste magic until level 9. That's PAINFUL.
One of the problems with the alchemist is that potions themselves are difficult to use - they either need perfect pre-combat timing, waste an entire action to drink, or be unconscious. This is just terrible action economy all around, and feels bad. This feature swap doesn't really address this problem, so you're still going to feel that action crunch.
There's a distinct lack of a strong turn-by-turn option that other half-casters, even other Artificer subclasses, don't have a problem with. Cantrip + Homunculus just doesn't compare to anything a warlock, ranger or paladin can do.
So, this feature... Its not bad as an addition, but I wouldn't say that I'd like this to work as the key subclass feature. Still too many issues.
It's a nice idea, and I'd love to see it as an infusion, but I don't think it really helps the Alchemist.
The Experimental Elixirs themselves aren't the problem, the problem is that you can't get predictable elixirs as standard. Personally I'd just double the number of elixirs an alchemist can make (as one is pretty low for a 3rd-level feature) and make half of them predictable. So at 3rd you can choose one, and randomise one, at 6th you choose two, randomise two, and at 15th you choose three, randomise three.
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Lets see if I can remember all the issues of the alchemist that need addressing....
1- initial randomness of Experimental Elixer, easily fixed
2- bad scaling. the elixers themselves aren't terrible, but they're the same effects throughout your adventuring career; you have to wait until level 9 to get the equivalent of Haste until level 9. The healing does get better, but not Mass Healing Word better. Your damage is also not that great in terms of scaling. Cantrip+homunculus isn't bad at level 2, and its alright at level 5, but you're never really going to be improving it beyond that. No feats, no magic item enhancements, no tier 3 or 4 damage boost beyond an extra cantrip die, putting you behind literally everyone else.
3- reliance on spell slots. no other subclass has this issue. As a half-caster, this makes you come off as a worse cleric. It also notable that your core feature doesn't scale with spell slot level. It also means that there's no turn-by-turn effect like everyone else. Artillerist can spam Protector for free healing every round, or bursts of flame, or a force blast that a warlock's eldritch blast would approve of. Alchemists need to invest in an infusion for something to do, and even then they're cantrips spamming. Artillerist can use their subclass features alongside spells, whereas alchemists need spell slots for their feature, so spell slots are limited.
4- terrible action economy. One action to make an elixer, someone else needs to use their actions to down it. A waste of two actions, which is terrible in combat.
5- limited to alchemist tools, limited to fire, poison, acid, necrotic damage. Which isn't terrible, but it does mean the arcane implement doesn't work, and you might have trouble with fiends. The former is easily fixed, but it shouldn't need to be fixed, and the latter is oddly restrictive, given the alchemist spell list.
6- For a themed cantrips caster, its also a bit annoying how few cantrips you get. Most likely, you're going to want Mending along with a homunculus, then an attack cantrip, then that's it until level 10. Heaven forbid you run into something resistant or immune to your singular attack option.
as an extra note for the limited damage. the d amage doesn't make sense either for what you have.. for instance the only necrotic spell is Blight, given by the class itself at 4th level. this does tie into th cantrip as well..
Which is why I am a big supporter of the level 3 elixirs being profiency per day (your choice), then 1 slot = make profiency amount or 1/2 proficiency (if you think its too strong to get full profiency... i really don't think so), making elixirs shorter lasting but a bonus action to consume.
Then at level 3, and again at level 5, you get 1 free cantrip chosen from any other class, but it must be restricted to the damage types you are restricted to.
Remove "alchemsit tools only" requirement and make it "alchemist tools or infusions" the restricted damage is already enough.
I don't think the later abilities need much of any change. Though IMO the spells do. but thats another discussion.
but the above lets them solidly be in a "hand out buffs that others can use" "back up emergency heals" "solid consistent damage" but not hamper them with the handedness issue from the Tools.
The elixirs are pretty decent, they just are too expensive in terms of spell slot and action economy. Fixing those details makes them quite nice to have around. The flight should stay 10m but the rest should just be 1min length.
edit: On the extra cantrips. they really should get chill touch, or toll the dead at the least. Those provide such utility or good solid damage for a primary caster type. Addiitonally having primal savegry would give them a close range cantrip option. Which lets them get out of the dagger for green flame blade