The UA I read said 8 items at 20th level. You can pass the items around. Still to OP IMHO.
8 what? It's 8 plans known, 6 Magic Items with no duplications, and only 3 replicated magic items can be Rare. Spamming 3rd level spells using the minimum spellcasting slot and a DC set for 5th level play is far from OP.
The Yellow here is "Plans Known." That's the column for how many kinds of magic item you know how to make. At level 20 the most you can know is 8. The "Magic Items" column is for how many magic items you can have at once through Replicate Magic Item. At level 20 the most you can have at once is 6.
Thanks. I read it wrong because I am old and my phone sucks. Still op. But I doubt at this point any thing I can say matters. The metagaming arguments at my table will be epic. This thread will pale in comparison. :-)
Thanks. I read it wrong because I am old and my phone sucks. Still op. But I doubt at this point any thing I can say matters. The metagaming arguments at my table will be epic. This thread will pale in comparison. :-)
8 copies of rare items is vastly different than 3 rare items and 3 common or uncommon items. It's far from OP apart from potential issues that already exist in craftable magic items. Someone mentioned replicating Enspelled Weapons to pass around to cast Find Familiar, but that is already an option to craft or maybe purchase as a 400-ish GP item. Artificers make it easier to access, but at level 6+, you should not have issues getting one if you want. At level 9+, you can have hirelings at your Bastions craft them.
Replicate Magic Items being limited to 3 rare items is a notable to nerf to the class. I don't think it's made up for by expanded access to magic items, and any exploits will need to be addressed at the item level, not at the Artificer class, because those exploits exist independently of the class.
I see your point. We nerfed bastions already. It seems our table has had to use table rules and homebrew alot more with 2024. I guess we will have to redesign this class as well. WOTC should be paying my table at this point.:-D.
The homunculus is very fun... but at AC 13 and 7ish HP, it is not sturdy. And if it is casting spells, it can't take the Dodge action.
The Homunculus is AC 13 and 5 HP plus 5 HP per spell level. That is 15 HP to 25 HP unless you can find a way to cast it with a higher spell slot. It has Evasion and delivering a touch spell is a reaction, not an action. I would probably never use Force Strike except as a last resort. Also, note that delivering a touch a spell that does not require an attack roll via that reaction that does not break Invisibility cast on the Homunculus. It is debatable whether RAW, delivering a touch attack spell would (since the caster is making the attack roll, not the Homunculus). The same scenarios apply to familiars (see Find Familiar).
Edit: Wait. Were you mentioning casting spells in regards to activating the spell-storing item?
You're right, I did misread the hitpoints on the new homunculus. 5 + 5 x level where typically it might be cast at 2nd level = 15 hp. If you are a level 17+ artificer you can create it at 5th level which indeed would be as many as 30. At these levels... and with AC 13... still one-hittable and pretty squishy.
Yeah, the idea being passed around was that we were OP because a squadron of homunculi and familiars would be casting fireball etc through the spell storing items and wands, which was what I was replying to. You can't make as many items as they were thinking but even if you could, the stand-in holders are not going to last 10 turns, and possibly not even two.
You're right, I did misread the hitpoints on the new homunculus. 5 + 5 x level where typically it might be cast at 2nd level = 15 hp. If you are a level 17+ artificer you can create it at 5th level which indeed would be as many as 30. At these levels... and with AC 13... still one-hittable and pretty squishy.
Yeah, the idea being passed around was that we were OP because a squadron of homunculi and familiars would be casting fireball etc through the spell storing items and wands, which was what I was replying to. You can't make as many items as they were thinking but even if you could, the stand-in holders are not going to last 10 turns, and possibly not even two.
Yes, but I think someone also mentioned the possibility of using the Spell-storing Item to cast a spell and pass it around for multiple castings per round. However, when you get the ability, I don't think that it is too problematic. One possible solution might be to allow it to produce 1st and 2nd level effects at level 11 and 3rd level effects at level 13 or 17.
I really hope that any magic item an Artificer creates can be a focus again. Not sure whether that was an oversight or intentionally done to test the reaction, but it's pretty essential to the workings of the class.
If they don't restore it, I'll just be buying an extra set of Thieves' Tools and lashing a lockpick into the handle of all my items.
Seems like this may be the right topic to ask about some ideas for fixing the known issues with Artificers. Please direct me elsewhere if there is a better place to get feedback.
Would there be any concerns with letting Artificers use their spellcasting DC in place of a a DC set by the magic item (example Wands)?
Would there be any concerns with letting Artificers use their spellcasting DC in place of a a DC set by the magic item (example Wands)?
TBH, this is how I have always run it in my games. It has thrown nothing off and makes the attunement to certain items feel more like it is tying it to you as a caster than a assigned DC. It can weaken the DC of some items based on who is using it should be expected that a less focused caster with an attribute of 14 would be a little weaker using the same item as a caster with a 20. If a non-caster can use an item with a DC (Ring of Animal Influence) then you could make the DC either have a base of 8+proficiency since they do not have a casing stat or use which ever casting stat (INT/WIS/CHR) is the highest as it would make sense they would be trying to influence the item through one of them anyways. Once again, a non-spell caster might only have a 12-14 in one of those stats which makes them weaker using those specific items.
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Would there be any concerns with letting Artificers use their spellcasting DC in place of a a DC set by the magic item (example Wands)?
TBH, this is how I have always run it in my games. It has thrown nothing off and makes the attunement to certain items feel more like it is tying it to you as a caster than a assigned DC. It can weaken the DC of some items based on who is using it should be expected that a less focused caster with an attribute of 14 would be a little weaker using the same item as a caster with a 20. If a non-caster can use an item with a DC (Ring of Animal Influence) then you could make the DC either have a base of 8+proficiency since they do not have a casing stat or use which ever casting stat (INT/WIS/CHR) is the highest as it would make sense they would be trying to influence the item through one of them anyways. Once again, a non-spell caster might only have a 12-14 in one of those stats which makes them weaker using those specific items.
Good to know I'm not the only one who thought the set DCs were stupid.
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Hey! I make (what I believe to be, could use some feedback) good homebrew!
8 what? It's 8 plans known, 6 Magic Items with no duplications, and only 3 replicated magic items can be Rare. Spamming 3rd level spells using the minimum spellcasting slot and a DC set for 5th level play is far from OP.
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8 magic items
It is in the table along with the spell slots.
The Yellow here is "Plans Known." That's the column for how many kinds of magic item you know how to make. At level 20 the most you can know is 8.
The "Magic Items" column is for how many magic items you can have at once through Replicate Magic Item. At level 20 the most you can have at once is 6.
Reference: 2024 Artificer UA document
Thanks. I read it wrong because I am old and my phone sucks. Still op. But I doubt at this point any thing I can say matters. The metagaming arguments at my table will be epic. This thread will pale in comparison. :-)
The homunculus is very fun... but at AC 13 and 7ish HP, it is not sturdy. And if it is casting spells, it can't take the Dodge action.
8 copies of rare items is vastly different than 3 rare items and 3 common or uncommon items. It's far from OP apart from potential issues that already exist in craftable magic items. Someone mentioned replicating Enspelled Weapons to pass around to cast Find Familiar, but that is already an option to craft or maybe purchase as a 400-ish GP item. Artificers make it easier to access, but at level 6+, you should not have issues getting one if you want. At level 9+, you can have hirelings at your Bastions craft them.
Replicate Magic Items being limited to 3 rare items is a notable to nerf to the class. I don't think it's made up for by expanded access to magic items, and any exploits will need to be addressed at the item level, not at the Artificer class, because those exploits exist independently of the class.
How to add Tooltips.
I see your point. We nerfed bastions already. It seems our table has had to use table rules and homebrew alot more with 2024. I guess we will have to redesign this class as well. WOTC should be paying my table at this point.:-D.
The Homunculus is AC 13 and 5 HP plus 5 HP per spell level. That is 15 HP to 25 HP unless you can find a way to cast it with a higher spell slot. It has Evasion and delivering a touch spell is a reaction, not an action. I would probably never use Force Strike except as a last resort. Also, note that delivering a touch a spell that does not require an attack roll via that reaction that does not break Invisibility cast on the Homunculus. It is debatable whether RAW, delivering a touch attack spell would (since the caster is making the attack roll, not the Homunculus). The same scenarios apply to familiars (see Find Familiar).
Edit: Wait. Were you mentioning casting spells in regards to activating the spell-storing item?
How to add Tooltips.
You're right, I did misread the hitpoints on the new homunculus. 5 + 5 x level where typically it might be cast at 2nd level = 15 hp. If you are a level 17+ artificer you can create it at 5th level which indeed would be as many as 30. At these levels... and with AC 13... still one-hittable and pretty squishy.
Yeah, the idea being passed around was that we were OP because a squadron of homunculi and familiars would be casting fireball etc through the spell storing items and wands, which was what I was replying to. You can't make as many items as they were thinking but even if you could, the stand-in holders are not going to last 10 turns, and possibly not even two.
Yes, but I think someone also mentioned the possibility of using the Spell-storing Item to cast a spell and pass it around for multiple castings per round. However, when you get the ability, I don't think that it is too problematic. One possible solution might be to allow it to produce 1st and 2nd level effects at level 11 and 3rd level effects at level 13 or 17.
How to add Tooltips.
I have lost track of their intent in the future for all artificer infusions being magical focuses.
The last version I saw, of artificer didn't mention that and it is a rather powerful advantage and very thematic
I have a 2,foot snow white owlin marine who infused Trusty the light crossbow.
She infused it with reloading. And as it is now infused she has rp upgraded it to shoot, ranged spells as it is her focus.
Actually the buttstock even casts cure wounds as you lay it on the wounded area flip switches turn dials a voice the safety words. IE, V.S.M
With material being the crossbow focus
Itinerant Deputy Shire-reave Tomas Burrfoot - world walker, Raft-captain, speaker to his dead
Toddy Shelfungus- Rider of the Order of Ill Luck, Speaker to Friends of Friends, and Horribly big nosed
Jarl Archi of Jenisis Glade Fee- Noble Knight of the Dragonborn Goldcrest Clan, Sorcerer of the Noble Investigator;y; Knightly order of the Wolfhound
I really hope that any magic item an Artificer creates can be a focus again. Not sure whether that was an oversight or intentionally done to test the reaction, but it's pretty essential to the workings of the class.
If they don't restore it, I'll just be buying an extra set of Thieves' Tools and lashing a lockpick into the handle of all my items.
Seems like this may be the right topic to ask about some ideas for fixing the known issues with Artificers. Please direct me elsewhere if there is a better place to get feedback.
Would there be any concerns with letting Artificers use their spellcasting DC in place of a a DC set by the magic item (example Wands)?
TBH, this is how I have always run it in my games. It has thrown nothing off and makes the attunement to certain items feel more like it is tying it to you as a caster than a assigned DC. It can weaken the DC of some items based on who is using it should be expected that a less focused caster with an attribute of 14 would be a little weaker using the same item as a caster with a 20. If a non-caster can use an item with a DC (Ring of Animal Influence) then you could make the DC either have a base of 8+proficiency since they do not have a casing stat or use which ever casting stat (INT/WIS/CHR) is the highest as it would make sense they would be trying to influence the item through one of them anyways. Once again, a non-spell caster might only have a 12-14 in one of those stats which makes them weaker using those specific items.
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Good to know I'm not the only one who thought the set DCs were stupid.
Hey! I make (what I believe to be, could use some feedback) good homebrew!
Click here!
Please tell me what you think!
I have finished updating the Artificer (taking in much of the feedback from here). Im happy to share the consolidated update here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YWHektISwPVRP5c7yTd-YhteYBEvr2Qe96kaTehExt8/edit?tab=t.0