So after my fist poll of the community it brought me to a bunch of new questions, still with the hopes that the devs are watching. I would like to thank everyone who participated in the fist poll and if you are reading this and haven't done the first poll I would encourage you to do that poll first. However I feel that enough data has been gathered on the first poll to start making some inferences.
It seems the thing people are most dissatisfied with is infusions.
The Eberron flavor of artificers doesn't fit into other D&D worlds
Artificers need to be made more powerful
To that end I am posting here a second poll focused on drilling down into these three points to get and see what the community wants most for the artificer and perhaps what trade offs the community is willing to make to adjust the power level of the artificer. I think we are starting to get some good fuel for the fire of 2024 Artificer for the devs with this one! If you are reading though this disagree with the direction please let me know in the comments. As before thank you to everyone who participates. Bless you all! You have beautiful souls!
I'm going to add an * on my YES vote for Artificers to get Weapon Masteries:
Weapon Masteries are currently only relevant to the Battle Smith and possibly the Armorer (if their special weapons were to gain masteries). While it's theoretically possible to MAKE them relevant to the Artillerist and Alchemist by giving the class access to True Strike cantrip... that's getting really niche.
I think the best solution is a level one feature similar to the Cleric's Divine Order and the Druid's Primal order (I like the name "Artisanal Order") that allow a choice between more weapon focused features (including weapon masteries) and more spellcasting/cantrip focused features (including a bonus cantrip).
Unclevertitle's proposed feature branch would work well in my opinion.
For artificers in general, I said in the other thread that artificers don't have any mathematical issues in dnd combat. A guaranteed +1/+2 weapon or focus is going to put you way ahead of the CR curve, with a similar case for +1/+2 armors. Their capstone features take this even further.
I'm seeing a lot of desire for inventive solutions with magic items, so I think a new class feature expanding on Right Tool for the Job could be helpful. Maybe have a list of magic items with which the artificer can speedily craft for exploration, problem solving, and occasionally combat, which then cease to function after a period? Maybe this could also be solved with greater access to infusions, but oftentimes the best way to utilize infusions is by crafting permanent gear with stat or ability upgrades instead of specialized magical tools. Maybe you could add extra infusions which can only craft those more niche items? Players don't get access to a number of infusions large enough to make this anywhere near practical until much higher in level, and perhaps a player might like to use those slots to infuse permanent buff gear for their party. I'm imagining this feature could come into play when Flash of Genius does, but perhaps even earlier. Maybe it could even use uses of Flash of Genius as a resource.
Also I'd really love to be able to add at least a +1 to adamantine or mythril armor, thanks.
Taking the questions one at a time: 1) Infusions and magic items - I really wanted a “no change” option. Artificers get to make magic items so they shouldn’t be improving them. That said a case could be made that silvered, mithril and Admantine items are special mundane materials not magical and therefore could be infused. 2) power - we can always use more options/types of nfusions etc.. that said I would not start to go into options duplicating rare or higher magic items. I’m sure we, as well as WotC can come up with plenty of new common and uncommon level options. 3) Scaling - really? You get +2 n tiers 3&4 as well as maybe a few rare items that’s really enough scaling to suit me I don’t think artificers should be creating +3/very rare/legendary/artifact level items. 4) Flavor fixes - ok the alchemist needs a really good rewrite from the ground up. I’ll grant that. The other subclasses and the general class are fine as is. 5) Damage - like the majority I see no need for upping the damage. Artificers are generally n line with other classes. 6) weapon mastery - yes and no, some subclasses like armorer and battle master should get it as a subclass feature. Others like alchemist should not. As a class feature I would say no. 7) Trade offs - why? For what- weapon mastery as a subclass feature in some subclasses? Some new fusion options? Getting to infuse special mundane materials? No - no trade offs needed.
Taking the questions one at a time: 1) Infusions and magic items - I really wanted a “no change” option. Artificers get to make magic items so they shouldn’t be improving them. That said a case could be made that silvered, mithril and Admantine items are special mundane materials not magical and therefore could be infused. 2) power - we can always use more options/types of nfusions etc.. that said I would not start to go into options duplicating rare or higher magic items. I’m sure we, as well as WotC can come up with plenty of new common and uncommon level options. 3) Scaling - really? You get +2 n tiers 3&4 as well as maybe a few rare items that’s really enough scaling to suit me I don’t think artificers should be creating +3/very rare/legendary/artifact level items. 4) Flavor fixes - ok the alchemist needs a really good rewrite from the ground up. I’ll grant that. The other subclasses and the general class are fine as is. 5) Damage - like the majority I see no need for upping the damage. Artificers are generally n line with other classes. 6) weapon mastery - yes and no, some subclasses like armorer and battle master should get it as a subclass feature. Others like alchemist should not. As a class feature I would say no. 7) Trade offs - why? For what- weapon mastery as a subclass feature in some subclasses? Some new fusion options? Getting to infuse special mundane materials? No - no trade offs needed.
So to this i mostly picked the questions and options based on responses to my last poll, in that last poll these are the changes most people in the previous poll wanted to see. So the questions assume that we are getting power buffs for artificer so if a trade off need be made to ballance these buff what would people be willing to trade away to get these improvements. This is all hypothetical to gather data for devs mostly
Sort of gathered that. And yes a power buff is always nice I just don’t see anything significant happening in that respect. I grant and hope that the alchemist needs a rewrite badly and gets it. But the other 3 subclass seem fairly well balanced compared to both each other and to the other half casters as they are covered in 2024. I would love to see more options both in terms of subclasses and infusions. However as half caster limited to a max of Level 5 spells I can’t see the reasoning behind being able to enhance armor and weapons beyond +2 and creating of infusions that mimic common and MAYBE some rare items. Getting weapon masteries foe at least armorer and battlemaster I think are likely. The big request you have ( as I see it) is having fusions affect silvered, mithril and Admantine items. To me Mithril is a titanium analog while Admantine is a high tungsten nickel chrome steel. If WotC treats them as mundane with unusual natural properties not actually magical we have a chance. If they continue to treat them as magical we are unlikely to see it happen
Your polls seem a bit biased, where's the options that don't agree with those choices?
It's like running a poll that says,
"Some say wizards are too weak?
Option 1: Double the damage on all their spells Option 2: Double the damage only on odd leveled spells"
Naa I'm Just assuming that the options in poll first that got the most votes get changed, this is more just to see how people want them changed. I did try to be broad with my options but all the questions are based off answers to the last poll.
Add modular features like the Warlock invocation and cleric/druid choices for melee or magic options. This would give creativity and variability to the classes.
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So after my fist poll of the community it brought me to a bunch of new questions, still with the hopes that the devs are watching. I would like to thank everyone who participated in the fist poll and if you are reading this and haven't done the first poll I would encourage you to do that poll first. However I feel that enough data has been gathered on the first poll to start making some inferences.
To that end I am posting here a second poll focused on drilling down into these three points to get and see what the community wants most for the artificer and perhaps what trade offs the community is willing to make to adjust the power level of the artificer. I think we are starting to get some good fuel for the fire of 2024 Artificer for the devs with this one! If you are reading though this disagree with the direction please let me know in the comments. As before thank you to everyone who participates. Bless you all! You have beautiful souls!
I'm going to add an * on my YES vote for Artificers to get Weapon Masteries:
Weapon Masteries are currently only relevant to the Battle Smith and possibly the Armorer (if their special weapons were to gain masteries). While it's theoretically possible to MAKE them relevant to the Artillerist and Alchemist by giving the class access to True Strike cantrip... that's getting really niche.
I think the best solution is a level one feature similar to the Cleric's Divine Order and the Druid's Primal order (I like the name "Artisanal Order") that allow a choice between more weapon focused features (including weapon masteries) and more spellcasting/cantrip focused features (including a bonus cantrip).
Unclevertitle's proposed feature branch would work well in my opinion.
For artificers in general, I said in the other thread that artificers don't have any mathematical issues in dnd combat. A guaranteed +1/+2 weapon or focus is going to put you way ahead of the CR curve, with a similar case for +1/+2 armors. Their capstone features take this even further.
I'm seeing a lot of desire for inventive solutions with magic items, so I think a new class feature expanding on Right Tool for the Job could be helpful. Maybe have a list of magic items with which the artificer can speedily craft for exploration, problem solving, and occasionally combat, which then cease to function after a period? Maybe this could also be solved with greater access to infusions, but oftentimes the best way to utilize infusions is by crafting permanent gear with stat or ability upgrades instead of specialized magical tools. Maybe you could add extra infusions which can only craft those more niche items? Players don't get access to a number of infusions large enough to make this anywhere near practical until much higher in level, and perhaps a player might like to use those slots to infuse permanent buff gear for their party. I'm imagining this feature could come into play when Flash of Genius does, but perhaps even earlier. Maybe it could even use uses of Flash of Genius as a resource.
Also I'd really love to be able to add at least a +1 to adamantine or mythril armor, thanks.
Taking the questions one at a time:
1) Infusions and magic items - I really wanted a “no change” option. Artificers get to make magic items so they shouldn’t be improving them. That said a case could be made that silvered, mithril and Admantine items are special mundane materials not magical and therefore could be infused.
2) power - we can always use more options/types of nfusions etc.. that said I would not start to go into options duplicating rare or higher magic items. I’m sure we, as well as WotC can come up with plenty of new common and uncommon level options.
3) Scaling - really? You get +2 n tiers 3&4 as well as maybe a few rare items that’s really enough scaling to suit me I don’t think artificers should be creating +3/very rare/legendary/artifact level items.
4) Flavor fixes - ok the alchemist needs a really good rewrite from the ground up. I’ll grant that. The other subclasses and the general class are fine as is.
5) Damage - like the majority I see no need for upping the damage. Artificers are generally n line with other classes.
6) weapon mastery - yes and no, some subclasses like armorer and battle master should get it as a subclass feature. Others like alchemist should not. As a class feature I would say no.
7) Trade offs - why? For what- weapon mastery as a subclass feature in some subclasses? Some new fusion options? Getting to infuse special mundane materials? No - no trade offs needed.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
So to this i mostly picked the questions and options based on responses to my last poll, in that last poll these are the changes most people in the previous poll wanted to see. So the questions assume that we are getting power buffs for artificer so if a trade off need be made to ballance these buff what would people be willing to trade away to get these improvements. This is all hypothetical to gather data for devs mostly
Sort of gathered that. And yes a power buff is always nice I just don’t see anything significant happening in that respect. I grant and hope that the alchemist needs a rewrite badly and gets it. But the other 3 subclass seem fairly well balanced compared to both each other and to the other half casters as they are covered in 2024. I would love to see more options both in terms of subclasses and infusions. However as half caster limited to a max of Level 5 spells I can’t see the reasoning behind being able to enhance armor and weapons beyond +2 and creating of infusions that mimic common and MAYBE some rare items. Getting weapon masteries foe at least armorer and battlemaster I think are likely. The big request you have ( as I see it) is having fusions affect silvered, mithril and Admantine items. To me Mithril is a titanium analog while Admantine is a high tungsten nickel chrome steel. If WotC treats them as mundane with unusual natural properties not actually magical we have a chance. If they continue to treat them as magical we are unlikely to see it happen
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Your polls seem a bit biased, where's the options that don't agree with those choices?
It's like running a poll that says,
"Some say wizards are too weak?
Option 1: Double the damage on all their spells
Option 2: Double the damage only on odd leveled spells"
Where's the option for, no, they aren't level them alone?
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
That was poll no 1 this was the follow up based on poll 1
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Naa I'm Just assuming that the options in poll first that got the most votes get changed, this is more just to see how people want them changed. I did try to be broad with my options but all the questions are based off answers to the last poll.
Add modular features like the Warlock invocation and cleric/druid choices for melee or magic options. This would give creativity and variability to the classes.