I would say that it would fall off of your shoulder, otherwise they would have said it could have been put on your shoulder. And, if you tried to mount it to your shield, it would either take damage whenever an attack missed you (because you blocked it with your shield, damaging it), or you lose the benefits of wearing a shield to AC. Also: Wand sheath for warforged lets this combo work.
I personally interpret the Eldritch Cannon as either a turret in the small form, or a hand held (gun/wand/etc) in the tiny form. I personally would not allow the shoulder mounting specifically because of the shield+arcane firearm+eldritch cannon combo. In the turret form, this is possible, but it purposely has slower movement so it can't keep up with you and you can always have every effect.
in hand held form it still is a turret with legs and move ability (Same distance) and such isn't it? So tiny or small, its still the same stat block, just one is able to be hand held the other isn't. Though presumably you could still carry it like any other thing small sized. or stick it in a bag of holding maybe.
That combo is still easily doable in general, regardless of if its on you or on the ground. The turret's balista range is like 100+ same as firebolt I think. So that isn't much functional difference there. Though you can't pull off the flamer one with it. and logistically you could outrun the health generating turret. But most maps I know of, likely don't feature enough space for this to truly come up
For what tis worth Todd Kenreck in this official interview, hosted by D&D beyond's youtube, even references doing the Predetar should cannon. Not sure how much its worth since its a creative manager for D&D beyond. a job which I have no real clue what entails. But it was where I got the idea for that and then commented here asking about.
Either way is quite fine. but I thought it a valid interesting topic to discuss
Whether or not a Tiny Eldritch Cannon can ride its attendant artillerist is likely up to DM fiat. RAW can be swung both ways, the controlling language is not terribly precise. Some DMs will insist the cannon must either be handheld or independent, not piggybacking on the artillerist, because they hate players breaking the Two Items Per Fight limit imposed by having two hands. Other DMs won't care so long as the artillerist is sufficiently cool in executing it, as the class is obviously balanced towards having its cannon out in every fight.
They're artificers, Bunsen. If an artillerist can't figure out a docking/clamping mechanism in their armor or shield or whatever for an Eldritch Cannon they can shape as they will, they're bad at being artificers.
I agree, but I'd probably establish that at first. If a player said they built it with that specific function in mind, I'd allow it. If not and they tried to do that, I'd probably say that it falls off but maybe say something 'this gives you an idea' and allow them to build it into their next turret and go on from there.
I mean I guess that is fair Yurei, I would argue against going against the RAI (i feel shoulder cannons were not that) but i could see it being justified somehow.
Odd side effect of having Homunculus Servant as a Level 6 infusion, you get one less boost out of the Might of the Master Feature as at level 6 your prof bonus is +3 as opposed to level 3 where it's +2.
Steel Defender doesn't have that issue since it comes online at level 3.
I'm not sure that was intentional. This feels like an oversight.
I hadn't even thought of that. Man, an extra reason why the Homunculus Servant is just complete ass. Admittedly I'd already decided that any such thing in a game I run just has the player's proficiency bonus added directly to the critter's value for the attack, since it all said stuff like "1d4+2, increased by +1 when your prof goes up" and such.
What the shit, Wizards. This is an official hardcover release, y'all should have done better than this.
I expect a few errata will be required, it feels like a B project still and too much went into Avernus. Still we do get nice lore friendly book but it never felt 100%.
I feel like Corssbows, Arcane Weapon, Homunculus and Alchemists Experimental Potions might need Errata in next few months.
That is not Errata, that is revisions. Errata is "oh shit, we found some way that totally destroys the game, lets put that in Sage Advice and fix it on future printings".
The bonus action of the artificer can be used for; magic stone, or command of tiny servants, animated objects and bigby's hand.
Shoulder mounted artillerist cannon is whatever and doesn't really change anything mechanically untill 15th, especially as infusions count as a focus. They could "hold" a cannon in one hand and cast out of their shield or their boots or their prosthetic. Fluff it however you like.
Depending how strict you were this wouldn't work with arcane fire arm at 5th.
Also I feel the homunculus's might of the master feature means it starts with a +1 bonus, otherwise if you decide to create a new steel defender (the old one perishes) after 5th wouldn't it loose it's might of the master +1 also?
Might of the Master seems to basically equate to pet's ability score modifier plus the master's proficiency bonus for everything it affects except for perception. There's a mysterious (and generous) +2 added in despite both the Homunculus's and the Steel Defender's having wisdom modifiers of 0.
I think Might of the Master was written in to simplify this calculation, but looks like it's a little wonky when you change the levels at which you get things.
Further (and this is very obviously not RAI and I'm sure no DM in their right mind would allow it) if you just repeatedly toss an Ioun Stone of Mastery in the air and grab it thereby increasing your proficiency bonus by 1 then decreasing it by 1. Might of the Master just starts racking up bonuses until your Homunculus/Defender becomes godlike and can kill anything not immune to force damage in a single hit.
That is not Errata, that is revisions. Errata is "oh shit, we found some way that totally destroys the game, lets put that in Sage Advice and fix it on future printings".
I think Errata is effectively typo fixing and Homunculus MotM definitely fits under possible typo territory. In my opinion their not printing Crossbows, Arcane Weapon or Many handed pouch feel like Typos too as I just can’t understand what they were thinking. Maybe removed for formatting reasons and then forgot to readd or something. I Can’t see any of those having anything but universal positive feedback (except maybe Arcane Weapon discouraging dual weapons)
Those were not typos. They have playtesters. The homunculus MotM might get a sage advice fixing that. But Crossbows, Arcane weapon, and many handed pouch were purposely removed (they still have hand crossbows btw, its heavy crossbows that were removed).
I would say that it would fall off of your shoulder, otherwise they would have said it could have been put on your shoulder. And, if you tried to mount it to your shield, it would either take damage whenever an attack missed you (because you blocked it with your shield, damaging it), or you lose the benefits of wearing a shield to AC. Also: Wand sheath for warforged lets this combo work.
in hand held form it still is a turret with legs and move ability (Same distance) and such isn't it? So tiny or small, its still the same stat block, just one is able to be hand held the other isn't. Though presumably you could still carry it like any other thing small sized. or stick it in a bag of holding maybe.
That combo is still easily doable in general, regardless of if its on you or on the ground. The turret's balista range is like 100+ same as firebolt I think. So that isn't much functional difference there. Though you can't pull off the flamer one with it. and logistically you could outrun the health generating turret. But most maps I know of, likely don't feature enough space for this to truly come up
For what tis worth Todd Kenreck in this official interview, hosted by D&D beyond's youtube, even references doing the Predetar should cannon. Not sure how much its worth since its a creative manager for D&D beyond. a job which I have no real clue what entails. But it was where I got the idea for that and then commented here asking about.
Either way is quite fine. but I thought it a valid interesting topic to discuss
He is not a source, he does not work for WOTC, he works for DDB, a third party.
Whether or not a Tiny Eldritch Cannon can ride its attendant artillerist is likely up to DM fiat. RAW can be swung both ways, the controlling language is not terribly precise. Some DMs will insist the cannon must either be handheld or independent, not piggybacking on the artillerist, because they hate players breaking the Two Items Per Fight limit imposed by having two hands. Other DMs won't care so long as the artillerist is sufficiently cool in executing it, as the class is obviously balanced towards having its cannon out in every fight.
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I would not accept it, but, I would accept it being on the stomach or if they had, say, mage hand, being held in that.
They're artificers, Bunsen. If an artillerist can't figure out a docking/clamping mechanism in their armor or shield or whatever for an Eldritch Cannon they can shape as they will, they're bad at being artificers.
Please do not contact or message me.
I agree, but I'd probably establish that at first. If a player said they built it with that specific function in mind, I'd allow it. If not and they tried to do that, I'd probably say that it falls off but maybe say something 'this gives you an idea' and allow them to build it into their next turret and go on from there.
I mean I guess that is fair Yurei, I would argue against going against the RAI (i feel shoulder cannons were not that) but i could see it being justified somehow.
Odd side effect of having Homunculus Servant as a Level 6 infusion, you get one less boost out of the Might of the Master Feature as at level 6 your prof bonus is +3 as opposed to level 3 where it's +2.
Steel Defender doesn't have that issue since it comes online at level 3.
I'm not sure that was intentional. This feels like an oversight.
I hadn't even thought of that. Man, an extra reason why the Homunculus Servant is just complete ass. Admittedly I'd already decided that any such thing in a game I run just has the player's proficiency bonus added directly to the critter's value for the attack, since it all said stuff like "1d4+2, increased by +1 when your prof goes up" and such.
What the shit, Wizards. This is an official hardcover release, y'all should have done better than this.
Please do not contact or message me.
I expect a few errata will be required, it feels like a B project still and too much went into Avernus. Still we do get nice lore friendly book but it never felt 100%.
I feel like Corssbows, Arcane Weapon, Homunculus and Alchemists Experimental Potions might need Errata in next few months.
That is not Errata, that is revisions. Errata is "oh shit, we found some way that totally destroys the game, lets put that in Sage Advice and fix it on future printings".
The bonus action of the artificer can be used for; magic stone, or command of tiny servants, animated objects and bigby's hand.
Shoulder mounted artillerist cannon is whatever and doesn't really change anything mechanically untill 15th, especially as infusions count as a focus. They could "hold" a cannon in one hand and cast out of their shield or their boots or their prosthetic. Fluff it however you like.
Depending how strict you were this wouldn't work with arcane fire arm at 5th.
Also I feel the homunculus's might of the master feature means it starts with a +1 bonus, otherwise if you decide to create a new steel defender (the old one perishes) after 5th wouldn't it loose it's might of the master +1 also?
Changes a hell a lot out mechanically, if you dont need a hand, why would you ever use one?
Might of the Master seems to basically equate to pet's ability score modifier plus the master's proficiency bonus for everything it affects except for perception. There's a mysterious (and generous) +2 added in despite both the Homunculus's and the Steel Defender's having wisdom modifiers of 0.
I think Might of the Master was written in to simplify this calculation, but looks like it's a little wonky when you change the levels at which you get things.
Further (and this is very obviously not RAI and I'm sure no DM in their right mind would allow it) if you just repeatedly toss an Ioun Stone of Mastery in the air and grab it thereby increasing your proficiency bonus by 1 then decreasing it by 1. Might of the Master just starts racking up bonuses until your Homunculus/Defender becomes godlike and can kill anything not immune to force damage in a single hit.
The feature could have been worded better.
On second thought maybe it doesn't work at all. Somantic requirments and all that.
I think Errata is effectively typo fixing and Homunculus MotM definitely fits under possible typo territory. In my opinion their not printing Crossbows, Arcane Weapon or Many handed pouch feel like Typos too as I just can’t understand what they were thinking. Maybe removed for formatting reasons and then forgot to readd or something. I Can’t see any of those having anything but universal positive feedback (except maybe Arcane Weapon discouraging dual weapons)
Those were not typos. They have playtesters. The homunculus MotM might get a sage advice fixing that. But Crossbows, Arcane weapon, and many handed pouch were purposely removed (they still have hand crossbows btw, its heavy crossbows that were removed).
Hand crossbows are ranged martial weapons; Artificers are baseline proficient with all simple weapons only.
only battle engineers get the crossbows in general now I think.
artilirists get that arcane blaster (firearm).
Alchemists... seem out of luck I guess? Was hoping they'd get like free alchemical items per short rest with bonuses to them.