Yeah all of my dip ideas are either "just fun" I.e. arcane archer or returend rogue. Or just to make the alchemist own sets work better (warmage 2).
Makes me a bit sad that I probably wouldn't feel the need to dip if the Alchemist core abiltiy concept felt like something I could build on. Weird thing I realized while looking through all of these is that the Elixirs feel like I dipped for them? Maybe because I rarely have the slots to use many of them-but it feels like something I snagged from a quick dip than something to build off of. if that ma kes sense? Sorta noticed how simliar it felt when I was looking at arcane archer. (which is a dip that highly amuses me if I could use it with a pistol).
000 I wonder if druidcraft or plantgrowth would help you get materials for crafting things or if it would be purely fluff related? I really do want to get to use acid/alch fire/tangle grenades more often. but hard to justify spending income on crafting those latter two (Acid I get via alchemy jug)
can you really get double int on your healing spells? i keep seeing talk about it but i could have sworn you couldn't double dip stat bonus's.
The "double dip" stems from the fact that the baseline healing spells (cure wounds and healing word) inherently add your class's spellcasting modifier to the amount healed and then the level 5 Alchemist feature adds your Intelligence modifier on top of that amount.
An odd multiclass that I'm considering is a little more in depth than a dip. 6 LV in evocation wizard allows the alchemist to always apply their bonus Int damage even on passed save with cantrips. Could see even going 10/10 for double int damage on evoc spells
Technically no. As per spellcasting rules; Only artificers can use tools as a spellcasting focus and in order to gain the INT bonus you need to use alchemist tools. SO any spells you gain from the spellbook (ie are wizard spells) are ineligible for the bonus
Do folks considier bonefire an aoe? Isn't it only 5ft (so one square). I didn't really think of it as an aoe, just the same as any other "save or miss" and good for when it has cover. Love the idea of popping a bonfire under the fellow hiding behind a wall or in a window. Also as a minor method to block a door~
This isn't quite as important for alchemist as it is for blade smith, but it's still useful to consider:
Blade Smith is to INT Classes as Hexblade is to CHA classes. Likewise, Alchemist offers some features that round out other INT classes- I could actually see dipping into Alchemist more than dipping out of Alchemist, because wizards can get some basic healing abilities without adding Wisdom or Charisma and Arcane Trickster INT rogues can also benefit in a similar manner (or any INT rogue that wants magic and isn't Arcane Trickster for that matter. I don't think the potential is quite as diverse as Hexblade or Battle Smith (Battle Smith Rogue is a build I'm interested in trying- shunt basically everything to INT, get some nice Rogue class features, get some freebie magic items, and have a Steel Defender to give sneak attacks) but you can certainly accomplish some interesting things with Alchemist as well, especially in adding some support ability to a party that lacks healing. Unlike Hexblade, you do need to put some levels into Artificer to make Alchemist or Battle Smith a good splash, so it's not quite as good to dip into, so I think you can more readily make a case for running an Alchemist or Battle Smith with dips out (or even 11-9 splits) than you would with, say Hexblade.
Of course, this assumes that you're heavily playing the INT angle, so I'm assuming you used standard array or didn't roll high on several stats. If you have a character with a couple 16+ rolls, then these options become much more diverse. However, Artificer is pretty self-sustaining and I think the easiest and best splash is over to Wizard, so you'd probably want to just dump that second high roll into CON and be tankier.
The cantrip bonus would work, however, as it doesn't specify. I don't necessarily think that the argument that you have to use class specific spellcasting focuses is necessarily one that you couldn't get around with a sympathetic DM, especially since the Wizard ability doesn't specify the casting tool, but the big sticking point is that they have to be Wizard spells, which would mean that you would be better putting more into Wizard anyway, at which point it wouldn't really be relevant here because Artificer would be the splash (and you might as well keep going from there).
The other sticking point is that your DM might not allow adding the INT bonus twice anyway. Typically when I see a rule that allows you to add a modifier to damage using an ability score, I treat it like AC formulas- you benefit from your best applicable one. It's why finesse weapons only add DEX and not STR as well, or Hexblade or Battle Smith or whatever way you use an unusual attribute for damage on attacks. Although you could argue that spells are a little different, you probably can't get away with that if your DM wasn't predisposed, and most DMs aren't really looking to have their campaigns unbalanced by a multiclass exploiting loopholes. You'd have a hard sell ahead even if your DM let you get this far.
Personally, I just find their Saves better to start. CHA is never bad to invest in, really. In addition, even just two levels for Invocations and a Patron aren't bad. The delay wouldn't really bother me. More Cantrips, including the Blades and Eldritch Blast seem a fair trade. Oh, and Short rest Elixirs.
I don't think necromancer would be a good fit. Undead don't need to eat or drink, and there are other issues, too (skeletons kinda can't drink, and zombies would possibly eat the bottle without opening it).
A shepherd druid or conjuration wizard might get some mileage from it by conjuring minions, though it would likely benefit working with said classes more than trying to fit it all into one character.
Magic items that bring in other creatures, though...
Fair enough. My argument was meant more for skeletons and zombies than other types, as those are the kinds a 5-6 level dip would beget. Their limitations through physical make-up or lack of intelligence was what I was going for. Ghouls and wights would have no such issues.
2 dips into Divination Wizard to get portent, access to 3rd level slots 2 levels early, extra cantrips, no need to prepare 1st level ritual spells, greater diversity of spells to use. Just massive amounts of utility added with little sacrifice in the late game.
War has been a real nice one for me. because I don't have the spell slots to cast a lot.. and almost always wanting to save it for emergency healing or buffs etc.
So, using my reaction to add some seriously good AC/Saves and be forced to use Cantrips... doesn't matter to much much in costs. So its so useful.
A small dip in Knowledge Cleric can really fill out all your proficiency and skill needs for a support character Artificer. It only has medium armour but if you have decent Dex that is not really such a big loss and you may find yourself in the roll of being the party sneak anyway, especially when you get the 2nd level dip and have proficiency in stealth whenever you need it.
Depending on your exact level it can open up slots earlier than you can use them for higher level spells. Using those for things like Tiny Servant seems to be working for me.
This is not going to be a front-line combat character but it can fill an awful lot of gaps in the party for the other pillars of the game without giving up too much in combat capability. In any case I prefer control spells to condition the battlefield over outright attack magics, putting my allies at advantage or my opponents at disadvantage (or both) swings combats hugely.
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Yeah all of my dip ideas are either "just fun" I.e. arcane archer or returend rogue. Or just to make the alchemist own sets work better (warmage 2).
Makes me a bit sad that I probably wouldn't feel the need to dip if the Alchemist core abiltiy concept felt like something I could build on. Weird thing I realized while looking through all of these is that the Elixirs feel like I dipped for them? Maybe because I rarely have the slots to use many of them-but it feels like something I snagged from a quick dip than something to build off of. if that ma kes sense? Sorta noticed how simliar it felt when I was looking at arcane archer. (which is a dip that highly amuses me if I could use it with a pistol).
000
I wonder if druidcraft or plantgrowth would help you get materials for crafting things or if it would be purely fluff related? I really do want to get to use acid/alch fire/tangle grenades more often. but hard to justify spending income on crafting those latter two (Acid I get via alchemy jug)
The "double dip" stems from the fact that the baseline healing spells (cure wounds and healing word) inherently add your class's spellcasting modifier to the amount healed and then the level 5 Alchemist feature adds your Intelligence modifier on top of that amount.
Technically no. As per spellcasting rules; Only artificers can use tools as a spellcasting focus and in order to gain the INT bonus you need to use alchemist tools. SO any spells you gain from the spellbook (ie are wizard spells) are ineligible for the bonus
Do folks considier bonefire an aoe? Isn't it only 5ft (so one square). I didn't really think of it as an aoe, just the same as any other "save or miss" and good for when it has cover. Love the idea of popping a bonfire under the fellow hiding behind a wall or in a window.
Also as a minor method to block a door~
This isn't quite as important for alchemist as it is for blade smith, but it's still useful to consider:
Blade Smith is to INT Classes as Hexblade is to CHA classes. Likewise, Alchemist offers some features that round out other INT classes- I could actually see dipping into Alchemist more than dipping out of Alchemist, because wizards can get some basic healing abilities without adding Wisdom or Charisma and Arcane Trickster INT rogues can also benefit in a similar manner (or any INT rogue that wants magic and isn't Arcane Trickster for that matter. I don't think the potential is quite as diverse as Hexblade or Battle Smith (Battle Smith Rogue is a build I'm interested in trying- shunt basically everything to INT, get some nice Rogue class features, get some freebie magic items, and have a Steel Defender to give sneak attacks) but you can certainly accomplish some interesting things with Alchemist as well, especially in adding some support ability to a party that lacks healing. Unlike Hexblade, you do need to put some levels into Artificer to make Alchemist or Battle Smith a good splash, so it's not quite as good to dip into, so I think you can more readily make a case for running an Alchemist or Battle Smith with dips out (or even 11-9 splits) than you would with, say Hexblade.
Of course, this assumes that you're heavily playing the INT angle, so I'm assuming you used standard array or didn't roll high on several stats. If you have a character with a couple 16+ rolls, then these options become much more diverse. However, Artificer is pretty self-sustaining and I think the easiest and best splash is over to Wizard, so you'd probably want to just dump that second high roll into CON and be tankier.
The cantrip bonus would work, however, as it doesn't specify. I don't necessarily think that the argument that you have to use class specific spellcasting focuses is necessarily one that you couldn't get around with a sympathetic DM, especially since the Wizard ability doesn't specify the casting tool, but the big sticking point is that they have to be Wizard spells, which would mean that you would be better putting more into Wizard anyway, at which point it wouldn't really be relevant here because Artificer would be the splash (and you might as well keep going from there).
The other sticking point is that your DM might not allow adding the INT bonus twice anyway. Typically when I see a rule that allows you to add a modifier to damage using an ability score, I treat it like AC formulas- you benefit from your best applicable one. It's why finesse weapons only add DEX and not STR as well, or Hexblade or Battle Smith or whatever way you use an unusual attribute for damage on attacks. Although you could argue that spells are a little different, you probably can't get away with that if your DM wasn't predisposed, and most DMs aren't really looking to have their campaigns unbalanced by a multiclass exploiting loopholes. You'd have a hard sell ahead even if your DM let you get this far.
Personally, I just find their Saves better to start. CHA is never bad to invest in, really. In addition, even just two levels for Invocations and a Patron aren't bad. The delay wouldn't really bother me. More Cantrips, including the Blades and Eldritch Blast seem a fair trade. Oh, and Short rest Elixirs.
I don't think necromancer would be a good fit. Undead don't need to eat or drink, and there are other issues, too (skeletons kinda can't drink, and zombies would possibly eat the bottle without opening it).
A shepherd druid or conjuration wizard might get some mileage from it by conjuring minions, though it would likely benefit working with said classes more than trying to fit it all into one character.
Magic items that bring in other creatures, though...
Fair enough. My argument was meant more for skeletons and zombies than other types, as those are the kinds a 5-6 level dip would beget. Their limitations through physical make-up or lack of intelligence was what I was going for. Ghouls and wights would have no such issues.
2 dips into Divination Wizard to get portent, access to 3rd level slots 2 levels early, extra cantrips, no need to prepare 1st level ritual spells, greater diversity of spells to use. Just massive amounts of utility added with little sacrifice in the late game.
War has been a real nice one for me. because I don't have the spell slots to cast a lot.. and almost always wanting to save it for emergency healing or buffs etc.
So, using my reaction to add some seriously good AC/Saves and be forced to use Cantrips... doesn't matter to much much in costs. So its so useful.
A small dip in Knowledge Cleric can really fill out all your proficiency and skill needs for a support character Artificer. It only has medium armour but if you have decent Dex that is not really such a big loss and you may find yourself in the roll of being the party sneak anyway, especially when you get the 2nd level dip and have proficiency in stealth whenever you need it.
Depending on your exact level it can open up slots earlier than you can use them for higher level spells. Using those for things like Tiny Servant seems to be working for me.
This is not going to be a front-line combat character but it can fill an awful lot of gaps in the party for the other pillars of the game without giving up too much in combat capability. In any case I prefer control spells to condition the battlefield over outright attack magics, putting my allies at advantage or my opponents at disadvantage (or both) swings combats hugely.