Interested in general opinions on Artificer Spell List, as well as potential additions to the list in game.
In a discussion with one of my players, he requested to add some spells to his Alchemist Spell list. He wasn't looking for anything game breaking, he was really anchoring for Sleep more than anything, but it got me thinking. With the Tools Required aspect of Artificer spellcasting, should the list have more flexibility. Wizards have the ability to find and learn new spells, why can't artificers. I don't want to step too much on the wizards toes, and I know that issues could arrive later with Spell Storing Item. But since the casting ability is Intelligence, should Artificers not be able to further gain spells in a similar way to Wizards. The idea of going out and finding new spell recipes, or even finding magic items and being able to strip the item of its spell and learn to develop it, seems pretty fun to me.
I'm sure some will disagree, and personally I think the artificer is pretty well balanced as is. But there are some spells that would play so well into the artificer's role as a support style class. Sleep for example could be a little music box with an enchanting song, or just a vial of knockout gas. I know this can be said for a lot of classes, but after talking with my player, it got me thinking and I think the spell list could do with a general expansion. Spells like Sleep and Fog Cloud are just a few examples of spells that are missing. Those two stuck out to me in-particular, because in my mind at least, they seem to fit the flavour of the class.
Alchemist could use a few more spells to help fill it out like fog cloud, vitriolic sphere, and contagion replacing the low preforming spells.
Battle smith could use some of the same because the smite spells are fairly meh and they don't have the spells that make them feel like a combat repair/medic. I like zephyr strike, warding wind, and steel wind strike.
Subclass spell lists are always tricky since class design philosophy behind expanding beyond the base class spell list is tethered exclusively to spells from the PHB, with very rare exceptions.
I agree that fog cloud makes sense for at least Alchemists if not the entire Artificer class as a whole, however that would mean replacing either healing word or ray of sickness which both benefit from the Alchemical Savant feature.
Similar case with contagion: you either replace cloudkill, which also benefits from Alchemical Savant, or raise dead, which is kind of expected from the healer spec.
Vitriolic sphere, zephyr strike, warding wind, and steel wind strike are from non-PHB sources, so they're automatically disregarded for consideration as subclass spells.
Personally, I think chaos bolt also makes sense for at least Alchemist. But again, not from the PHB therefore not an option for subclass spells.
A lot of spells could stand to be added to the list. I could see dragon's breath as a cool option, like you alter your own breath. Burning hands would also be a cool option. Honestly, a lot of spells could stand to be added, but I think it is really meant to be a support class, and that sticks you with a weird spell list. It has to be support and it has to be arcane, and there aren't a lot of things that overlap.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew and give me feedback!
As far as spell selection goes the class feels like a reskin. If Artificers had a spell or two that was unique to the class (or a unique spell for each of the sub classes) it would help in making the class unique.
Now that I've said that, there are spells I was surprised weren't available to Artificers as I can see them being cast with tools / devices / potions, alchemical bombs, etc.
well i hear the spell list mentioned and i think this is another great opportunity to complain about how dragons breath fits the artificer perfectly and can be reflavoured with almost any of your spell casting foci and yet it is somehow not available to the artificer, you can give somebody a flamethrower, or an backpack with an hose that shoots acid, you might be redirecting the cooling system of your armor of fire resistance to create blasts of cold air, create an straight up gun and give to your allies, shoot it via your gun, create an really spicy food that makes people puke fire, an magical elixir that lets you breathe the particular gas etc etc. It is easier to reflavour compared to many of the spells already on their spell list and i am so freaking annoyed that it is not on their list.
Also kinda suprising they have arcane lock but not the knock spell, i see many ways that spell also could be reflavoured
while the regular conjure animals does not exactly fit the artificer, you could use it as an template to create an very similar spell, that i made here
construct beast effigies 3rd level transmutation spell. casting time 10 minutes, components somatic and material (95 gold pieces of metal, fur or wood that is consumed by the spell), duration concentration, up to 30 minutes
with this spell you may create artificial replica of real world animals you have seen.
Choose one of the following options for what appears:
-once CR 2 beast of your choice that you have seen before
-two CR 1 beasts of your choice that you have seen before
-four CR ½ beasts of your choice that you have seen before
-eight CR ⅛ beast of your choice that you have seen before
An beast created by this spell is considered to be an construct, does not require air, food, drink or sleep and is immune to poison damage and the following conditions: blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, petrified, and poisoned, but otherwise uses the chosen beast’s statistics. A beast created by this spell is destroyed when it drops to 0 hit points or when the spell ends.
while i think it is wasteful to create an entirely new spell like this that overlaps so much with conjure animals and they would never put this spell in an official book, such an variant of conjure animals could be flavoured as you sewing stuffed animals, creating robots, bio-mechanical cyborg hybrids with replica flesh created from your alchemical studies, sculptures of wood, ice or stone etc and might be nice, but again the regular conjure animals could not be as easily reflavoured and creating this spell just to please artificers does not exactly feel right.
Instead of just being able to choose to cast heal once per rest, alchemy artificers should have an small unique list of spells at 6th level they can cast, consisting of heal, harm, heroes feast and create humonculus, maybe even eyebite, wind walk, flesh to stone and true seeing, and they prepare one each day
minor illusion and silent image could be reflavoured as some hologram technology, but i do not think that is a good fit for the rest of the class and so understand why it is not included
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Wizards get more spells because they do NOT know their entire spell list. You are not talking about parity with wizards, you are talking about creating a class that is far superior to Wizards.
If they want more spells, and in particular, 1 spells, the solution is very very simple.
Tell him to take a single level of Wizard. I assume his Int is > 13.
What you get for doing this:
Learn 3 wizard cantrips
A much better spell slot progression. You use 1/2 your Artificer level + your wizard level, and use the Multi-classing spell progression, which will give your more spell slots. If you go all the way to 18 Artificer/2 Wizard then you get a 6th level spell slot.
You get to prepare an extra Int Bonus + 1 of 1st level Wizard spells (which allows you to fewer/no artificer 1st level spells and use the artificer spells only for 2nd level).
You get to instantly learn for free six 1st level wizard spells, and can buy as many other 1st level wizard spells that you desire.
After a Short rest you can recover a single first level slot, 1/day.
You pay for this by getting 1d6 rather than 1d8 hitpoints, as well as slowing down the articifer abilities.
This is clearly a much better idea than house ruling to just let him get spells that are not on his list.
Doing that would be the same as letting a Wizard learn your artificer abilities. You want to know wizard spells, take a level (or 2 - you get the arcane tradition ability if you take a 2nd level...)
The knock spell seems a little unnecessary on a class that already gets expertise in thieves tools, access to infusions that give bonuses to checks with thieves' tools (Gloves of Thievery, Armor of Tools), access to the guidance cantrip, and Flash of Genius.
Combining all of them would be kind of crazy but it's possible to get a thieves tools check of: D20 + DEX + 2*PROF + 5 + INT + 1d4 + INT (again) Even without advantage.
True, but that is a subclass. I see no problem with an Artificer taking a subclass that makes him more wizard like. That seems fine.
But just house ruling that he can do it while he keeps his current subclass? That is OP.
You're not seriously trying to tell people how they are supposed to house rule are you??
I am personally a huge advocate for keeping 5e streamlined, easy to understand and well balanced on a base level but house rules are how people who dont like the simplicity of this version of DnD get around that. If something make sense for your character, and your dm is okay with that then that is their choice.
Wizards get more spells because they do NOT know their entire spell list. You are not talking about parity with wizards, you are talking about creating a class that is far superior to Wizards.
If they want more spells, and in particular, 1 spells, the solution is very very simple.
Tell him to take a single level of Wizard. I assume his Int is > 13.
What you get for doing this:
Learn 3 wizard cantrips
A much better spell slot progression. You use 1/2 your Artificer level + your wizard level, and use the Multi-classing spell progression, which will give your more spell slots. If you go all the way to 18 Artificer/2 Wizard then you get a 6th level spell slot.
You get to prepare an extra Int Bonus + 1 of 1st level Wizard spells (which allows you to fewer/no artificer 1st level spells and use the artificer spells only for 2nd level).
You get to instantly learn for free six 1st level wizard spells, and can buy as many other 1st level wizard spells that you desire.
After a Short rest you can recover a single first level slot, 1/day.
You pay for this by getting 1d6 rather than 1d8 hitpoints, as well as slowing down the articifer abilities.
This is clearly a much better idea than house ruling to just let him get spells that are not on his list.
Doing that would be the same as letting a Wizard learn your artificer abilities. You want to know wizard spells, take a level (or 2 - you get the arcane tradition ability if you take a 2nd level...)
This is not "clearly a much better idea" for a few reasons; 1. Having spells from another classes spell list as a multiclass causes them to use that classes rules for spellcasting. from cantrips to 9th levels SO 2) none of your wizard spells will be able to be cast through any sort of artisans tools which will prevent them from getting any sort of class based advantage such as the Alchemist "Alchemical Savant" ability. or the Artillerists "Arcane Firearm" 3) With that multiclassing scenario you will have ONE 6th level spell slot which will cause you to miss out on the 20th level Artificer feature which is objectively one of the best capstone abilities in the entire game 4) Supports tend to rely on their hit point pool much more than the likes of a back line damage class would so the 2 levels of 1d6 instead of 1d8 could be very detrimental in the long run
All in all this is a convoluted and inelegant way to fix a nonissue. In my humble opinion, if it makes sense that your players character would want to make smoke bombs and flasks that make you belch fire, ask your DM. The rule of cool trumps all this silly nonsense about a simple little addition to the spell list and if your DM is cool with it then you do you booboo
The knock spell seems a little unnecessary on a class that already gets expertise in thieves tools, access to infusions that give bonuses to checks with thieves' tools (Gloves of Thievery, Armor of Tools), access to the guidance cantrip, and Flash of Genius.
Combining all of them would be kind of crazy but it's possible to get a thieves tools check of: D20 + DEX + 2*PROF + 5 + INT + 1d4 + INT (again) Even without advantage.
yeah but even if i can completely delete the petty locks of my dm at like level 6 especially as an mark of warding dwarf with an additional redundant +1d4 to thives tools and who also get the knock spell, but the knock spell has more uses than just unlocking things, it can open containers from far distances or unlock even combination locks or locks that otherwise would not be able to be picked by conventional methods, and also it is able to disable the arcane lock spell, it fits the list and should be on there
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
The knock spell seems a little unnecessary on a class that already gets expertise in thieves tools, access to infusions that give bonuses to checks with thieves' tools (Gloves of Thievery, Armor of Tools), access to the guidance cantrip, and Flash of Genius.
Combining all of them would be kind of crazy but it's possible to get a thieves tools check of: D20 + DEX + 2*PROF + 5 + INT + 1d4 + INT (again) Even without advantage.
yeah but even if i can completely delete the petty locks of my dm at like level 6 especially as an mark of warding dwarf with an additional redundant +1d4 to thives tools and who also get the knock spell, but the knock spell has more uses than just unlocking things, it can open containers from far distances or unlock even combination locks or locks that otherwise would not be able to be picked by conventional methods, and also it is able to disable the arcane lock spell, it fits the list and should be on there
as a hobbyist lock picker I feel obliged to tell you that combination locks can be picked :)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
yeah but even if i can completely delete the petty locks of my dm at like level 6 especially as an mark of warding dwarf with an additional redundant +1d4 to thives tools and who also get the knock spell, but the knock spell has more uses than just unlocking things, it can open containers from far distances or unlock even combination locks or locks that otherwise would not be able to be picked by conventional methods, and also it is able to disable the arcane lock spell, it fits the list and should be on there
as a hobbyist lock picker I feel obliged to tell you that combination locks can be picked :)
how would one go about doing that, other than just kinda brute forcing your way through every combination?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
yeah but even if i can completely delete the petty locks of my dm at like level 6 especially as an mark of warding dwarf with an additional redundant +1d4 to thives tools and who also get the knock spell, but the knock spell has more uses than just unlocking things, it can open containers from far distances or unlock even combination locks or locks that otherwise would not be able to be picked by conventional methods, and also it is able to disable the arcane lock spell, it fits the list and should be on there
as a hobbyist lock picker I feel obliged to tell you that combination locks can be picked :)
how would one go about doing that, other than just kinda brute forcing your way through every combination?
there is usually a small plate on the bottom of the lock , unscrew that then there is a special pick tool you can use to turn the discs.
I mean if you wanna go through all the combos you can.
We discussed cross-classing, but in a wizardless party, currently stuck in the feywild, a sudden wizard dip would be very out of the blue. Doing more reading, the way we have gone is close to the XGTA options on creating magic items. They requested Sleep, so exploring the fey they eventually found some mystical poppies, and with some high roles, was able to crack a formula for the spell.
As I said up top, I had no intention on overstepping wizard. We've been working on it since, and to help balance the issues, any spells that are hoping to be gained require the following.
100GP in equipment, and x number of Days worth of research equal to the twice spells level. Costly and very rare components for spells that didn't normally have them.
They seem happy, and the game hasn't been broken yet. Any spell needs to go through me, the rest of the party is happy for this slight bonus to their Artificer.
All in all this is a convoluted and inelegant way to fix a nonissue. In my humble opinion, if it makes sense that your players character would want to make smoke bombs and flasks that make you belch fire, ask your DM. The rule of cool trumps all this silly nonsense about a simple little addition to the spell list and if your DM is cool with it then you do you booboo
True, but that is a subclass. I see no problem with an Artificer taking a subclass that makes him more wizard like. That seems fine.
But just house ruling that he can do it while he keeps his current subclass? That is OP.
You're not seriously trying to tell people how they are supposed to house rule are you??
I am personally a huge advocate for keeping 5e streamlined, easy to understand and well balanced on a base level but house rules are how people who dont like the simplicity of this version of DnD get around that. If something make sense for your character, and your dm is okay with that then that is their choice.
Wizards get more spells because they do NOT know their entire spell list. You are not talking about parity with wizards, you are talking about creating a class that is far superior to Wizards.
If they want more spells, and in particular, 1 spells, the solution is very very simple.
Tell him to take a single level of Wizard. I assume his Int is > 13.
What you get for doing this:
Learn 3 wizard cantrips
A much better spell slot progression. You use 1/2 your Artificer level + your wizard level, and use the Multi-classing spell progression, which will give your more spell slots. If you go all the way to 18 Artificer/2 Wizard then you get a 6th level spell slot.
You get to prepare an extra Int Bonus + 1 of 1st level Wizard spells (which allows you to fewer/no artificer 1st level spells and use the artificer spells only for 2nd level).
You get to instantly learn for free six 1st level wizard spells, and can buy as many other 1st level wizard spells that you desire.
After a Short rest you can recover a single first level slot, 1/day.
You pay for this by getting 1d6 rather than 1d8 hitpoints, as well as slowing down the articifer abilities.
This is clearly a much better idea than house ruling to just let him get spells that are not on his list.
Doing that would be the same as letting a Wizard learn your artificer abilities. You want to know wizard spells, take a level (or 2 - you get the arcane tradition ability if you take a 2nd level...)
This is not "clearly a much better idea" for a few reasons; 1. Having spells from another classes spell list as a multiclass causes them to use that classes rules for spellcasting. from cantrips to 9th levels SO 2) none of your wizard spells will be able to be cast through any sort of artisans tools which will prevent them from getting any sort of class based advantage such as the Alchemist "Alchemical Savant" ability. or the Artillerists "Arcane Firearm" 3) With that multiclassing scenario you will have ONE 6th level spell slot which will cause you to miss out on the 20th level Artificer feature which is objectively one of the best capstone abilities in the entire game 4) Supports tend to rely on their hit point pool much more than the likes of a back line damage class would so the 2 levels of 1d6 instead of 1d8 could be very detrimental in the long run
All in all this is a convoluted and inelegant way to fix a nonissue. In my humble opinion, if it makes sense that your players character would want to make smoke bombs and flasks that make you belch fire, ask your DM. The rule of cool trumps all this silly nonsense about a simple little addition to the spell list and if your DM is cool with it then you do you booboo
You were right, I was thinking of it from the point of view as 'casting' spells, because he asked about learning spells.
But that brings up something I think is the real solution. If you want to learn how to make more MAGIC ITEMS, then learn how to make more MAGIC ITEMS. Don't learn new spells. Because learning new spells is what wizards do.
That said, there is no such thing as a silly little addition to the spell list. While the artificer may not be focused on casting spells, other classes are, and you are effectively creating a way for multi-classers to gain huge power, particularly Wizards.
I think instead of house ruling Artificers can learn new spells, I think you should house rule that they can learn new infusions.
How about:
Spell Infusion: Pick any single spell whose level is less than 1/2 your Artificer level from ANY class. You now know how to create an infusion based on that spell. For an instant spell it is a single shot item. For a spell with a duration you can repeat it once per long rest.
There is such thing as a “silly little addition” when its homebrew. If the DM of that game has decided that its fine for them to have 1-3 spells added to their available spells then that is their choice. No need to force them to use one of their highly valuable Infusions just because someone who is not playing in that game thinks that if someone hombrew a rule one time then the wizard class automatically sucks.
I might remind you that artificer is only a half caster anyway so at say level 5 the most spells they can cast is 6 with the highest level being 2nd
in fact, giving them more spell SLOTS is more so steping on wizards toes than anything else
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Interested in general opinions on Artificer Spell List, as well as potential additions to the list in game.
In a discussion with one of my players, he requested to add some spells to his Alchemist Spell list. He wasn't looking for anything game breaking, he was really anchoring for Sleep more than anything, but it got me thinking. With the Tools Required aspect of Artificer spellcasting, should the list have more flexibility. Wizards have the ability to find and learn new spells, why can't artificers. I don't want to step too much on the wizards toes, and I know that issues could arrive later with Spell Storing Item. But since the casting ability is Intelligence, should Artificers not be able to further gain spells in a similar way to Wizards. The idea of going out and finding new spell recipes, or even finding magic items and being able to strip the item of its spell and learn to develop it, seems pretty fun to me.
I'm sure some will disagree, and personally I think the artificer is pretty well balanced as is. But there are some spells that would play so well into the artificer's role as a support style class. Sleep for example could be a little music box with an enchanting song, or just a vial of knockout gas. I know this can be said for a lot of classes, but after talking with my player, it got me thinking and I think the spell list could do with a general expansion. Spells like Sleep and Fog Cloud are just a few examples of spells that are missing. Those two stuck out to me in-particular, because in my mind at least, they seem to fit the flavour of the class.
Interested to hear your thoughts
Subclass spell lists are always tricky since class design philosophy behind expanding beyond the base class spell list is tethered exclusively to spells from the PHB, with very rare exceptions.
I agree that fog cloud makes sense for at least Alchemists if not the entire Artificer class as a whole, however that would mean replacing either healing word or ray of sickness which both benefit from the Alchemical Savant feature.
Similar case with contagion: you either replace cloudkill, which also benefits from Alchemical Savant, or raise dead, which is kind of expected from the healer spec.
Vitriolic sphere, zephyr strike, warding wind, and steel wind strike are from non-PHB sources, so they're automatically disregarded for consideration as subclass spells.
Personally, I think chaos bolt also makes sense for at least Alchemist. But again, not from the PHB therefore not an option for subclass spells.
A lot of spells could stand to be added to the list. I could see dragon's breath as a cool option, like you alter your own breath. Burning hands would also be a cool option. Honestly, a lot of spells could stand to be added, but I think it is really meant to be a support class, and that sticks you with a weird spell list. It has to be support and it has to be arcane, and there aren't a lot of things that overlap.
Please check out my homebrew and give me feedback!
Subclasses | Races | Spells | Magic Items | Monsters | Feats | Backgrounds
As far as spell selection goes the class feels like a reskin. If Artificers had a spell or two that was unique to the class (or a unique spell for each of the sub classes) it would help in making the class unique.
Now that I've said that, there are spells I was surprised weren't available to Artificers as I can see them being cast with tools / devices / potions, alchemical bombs, etc.
Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade, Chromatic Orb, Fog Cloud, Dragons Breath, Feign Death, Melf's Minute Meteors, Stinking Cloud, Vitriolic Sphere, Immolation.
well i hear the spell list mentioned and i think this is another great opportunity to complain about how dragons breath fits the artificer perfectly and can be reflavoured with almost any of your spell casting foci and yet it is somehow not available to the artificer, you can give somebody a flamethrower, or an backpack with an hose that shoots acid, you might be redirecting the cooling system of your armor of fire resistance to create blasts of cold air, create an straight up gun and give to your allies, shoot it via your gun, create an really spicy food that makes people puke fire, an magical elixir that lets you breathe the particular gas etc etc. It is easier to reflavour compared to many of the spells already on their spell list and i am so freaking annoyed that it is not on their list.
Also kinda suprising they have arcane lock but not the knock spell, i see many ways that spell also could be reflavoured
while the regular conjure animals does not exactly fit the artificer, you could use it as an template to create an very similar spell, that i made here
construct beast effigies 3rd level transmutation spell. casting time 10 minutes, components somatic and material (95 gold pieces of metal, fur or wood that is consumed by the spell), duration concentration, up to 30 minutes
with this spell you may create artificial replica of real world animals you have seen.
Choose one of the following options for what appears:
-once CR 2 beast of your choice that you have seen before
-two CR 1 beasts of your choice that you have seen before
-four CR ½ beasts of your choice that you have seen before
-eight CR ⅛ beast of your choice that you have seen before
An beast created by this spell is considered to be an construct, does not require air, food, drink or sleep and is immune to poison damage and the following conditions: blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, petrified, and poisoned, but otherwise uses the chosen beast’s statistics. A beast created by this spell is destroyed when it drops to 0 hit points or when the spell ends.
while i think it is wasteful to create an entirely new spell like this that overlaps so much with conjure animals and they would never put this spell in an official book, such an variant of conjure animals could be flavoured as you sewing stuffed animals, creating robots, bio-mechanical cyborg hybrids with replica flesh created from your alchemical studies, sculptures of wood, ice or stone etc and might be nice, but again the regular conjure animals could not be as easily reflavoured and creating this spell just to please artificers does not exactly feel right.
Instead of just being able to choose to cast heal once per rest, alchemy artificers should have an small unique list of spells at 6th level they can cast, consisting of heal, harm, heroes feast and create humonculus, maybe even eyebite, wind walk, flesh to stone and true seeing, and they prepare one each day
minor illusion and silent image could be reflavoured as some hologram technology, but i do not think that is a good fit for the rest of the class and so understand why it is not included
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Wizards get more spells because they do NOT know their entire spell list. You are not talking about parity with wizards, you are talking about creating a class that is far superior to Wizards.
If they want more spells, and in particular, 1 spells, the solution is very very simple.
Tell him to take a single level of Wizard. I assume his Int is > 13.
What you get for doing this:
This is clearly a much better idea than house ruling to just let him get spells that are not on his list.
Doing that would be the same as letting a Wizard learn your artificer abilities. You want to know wizard spells, take a level (or 2 - you get the arcane tradition ability if you take a 2nd level...)
WOTC is more or less already doing that in UA with the Order of Scribes Wizard replacing the Archivist.
True, but that is a subclass. I see no problem with an Artificer taking a subclass that makes him more wizard like. That seems fine.
But just house ruling that he can do it while he keeps his current subclass? That is OP.
The knock spell seems a little unnecessary on a class that already gets expertise in thieves tools, access to infusions that give bonuses to checks with thieves' tools (Gloves of Thievery, Armor of Tools), access to the guidance cantrip, and Flash of Genius.
Combining all of them would be kind of crazy but it's possible to get a thieves tools check of:
D20 + DEX + 2*PROF + 5 + INT + 1d4 + INT (again)
Even without advantage.
You're not seriously trying to tell people how they are supposed to house rule are you??
I am personally a huge advocate for keeping 5e streamlined, easy to understand and well balanced on a base level but house rules are how people who dont like the simplicity of this version of DnD get around that. If something make sense for your character, and your dm is okay with that then that is their choice.
This is not "clearly a much better idea" for a few reasons; 1. Having spells from another classes spell list as a multiclass causes them to use that classes rules for spellcasting. from cantrips to 9th levels SO 2) none of your wizard spells will be able to be cast through any sort of artisans tools which will prevent them from getting any sort of class based advantage such as the Alchemist "Alchemical Savant" ability. or the Artillerists "Arcane Firearm" 3) With that multiclassing scenario you will have ONE 6th level spell slot which will cause you to miss out on the 20th level Artificer feature which is objectively one of the best capstone abilities in the entire game 4) Supports tend to rely on their hit point pool much more than the likes of a back line damage class would so the 2 levels of 1d6 instead of 1d8 could be very detrimental in the long run
All in all this is a convoluted and inelegant way to fix a nonissue. In my humble opinion, if it makes sense that your players character would want to make smoke bombs and flasks that make you belch fire, ask your DM. The rule of cool trumps all this silly nonsense about a simple little addition to the spell list and if your DM is cool with it then you do you booboo
yeah but even if i can completely delete the petty locks of my dm at like level 6 especially as an mark of warding dwarf with an additional redundant +1d4 to thives tools and who also get the knock spell, but the knock spell has more uses than just unlocking things, it can open containers from far distances or unlock even combination locks or locks that otherwise would not be able to be picked by conventional methods, and also it is able to disable the arcane lock spell, it fits the list and should be on there
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
as a hobbyist lock picker I feel obliged to tell you that combination locks can be picked :)
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
how would one go about doing that, other than just kinda brute forcing your way through every combination?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
there is usually a small plate on the bottom of the lock , unscrew that then there is a special pick tool you can use to turn the discs.
I mean if you wanna go through all the combos you can.
I wasn't dissing knock tho.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
We discussed cross-classing, but in a wizardless party, currently stuck in the feywild, a sudden wizard dip would be very out of the blue. Doing more reading, the way we have gone is close to the XGTA options on creating magic items. They requested Sleep, so exploring the fey they eventually found some mystical poppies, and with some high roles, was able to crack a formula for the spell.
As I said up top, I had no intention on overstepping wizard. We've been working on it since, and to help balance the issues, any spells that are hoping to be gained require the following.
100GP in equipment, and x number of Days worth of research equal to the twice spells level.
Costly and very rare components for spells that didn't normally have them.
They seem happy, and the game hasn't been broken yet. Any spell needs to go through me, the rest of the party is happy for this slight bonus to their Artificer.
Thank you
You were right, I was thinking of it from the point of view as 'casting' spells, because he asked about learning spells.
But that brings up something I think is the real solution. If you want to learn how to make more MAGIC ITEMS, then learn how to make more MAGIC ITEMS. Don't learn new spells. Because learning new spells is what wizards do.
That said, there is no such thing as a silly little addition to the spell list. While the artificer may not be focused on casting spells, other classes are, and you are effectively creating a way for multi-classers to gain huge power, particularly Wizards.
I think instead of house ruling Artificers can learn new spells, I think you should house rule that they can learn new infusions.
How about:
Spell Infusion: Pick any single spell whose level is less than 1/2 your Artificer level from ANY class. You now know how to create an infusion based on that spell. For an instant spell it is a single shot item. For a spell with a duration you can repeat it once per long rest.
There is such thing as a “silly little addition” when its homebrew. If the DM of that game has decided that its fine for them to have 1-3 spells added to their available spells then that is their choice. No need to force them to use one of their highly valuable Infusions just because someone who is not playing in that game thinks that if someone hombrew a rule one time then the wizard class automatically sucks.
I might remind you that artificer is only a half caster anyway so at say level 5 the most spells they can cast is 6 with the highest level being 2nd
in fact, giving them more spell SLOTS is more so steping on wizards toes than anything else