So i love reading official artificer and one day plan to play one although one thing does bother me... i know they are supposed to be inventors but to me the feel like cousins to sorcerer and hear me out.

okay so sorcerer gets inate spell casting ability that comes natural... well artificer feels like that but less ability to cast and a natural unique ability to infuse their magic into mundane items. They just don’t feel or sound like inventors to me honestly which is cool and I love this idea just stating it doesn’t feel like an inventor.

i went back and read through the homebrew artificer made by xptolevel3 and remember why i loved it. It has a lot less focus on magic and more on crafting inventions from becoming potentially a full robot able to smell magic and feel tremors under their feet all the way to a mechanical horse riding mad bomber throwing alchemist fire and acid! I mean hell you could even get prosthetics to increase AC, make an artificer blunderbuss, get bonus HP, then become a steampunk commando lol. Hell going full robot, focus on investigation, insight, and perception and become mister gadget with a grapple hand, spell arm, arm shield, robot body, magic blood, mechanical eyes, ect!

it uses a point system rather than a subclass system giving a warlock level of freedom to be unique!

love both and wanted to see if others agree both are awesome and wanted to make some awareness for both flavors of characters and to hear the thoughts of others!

Your second to last comment summerises what I came here to say, I've seen them as closer to Warlocks because of the invocations/infusions comparison. I completely agree too, I love me some Artificer. I do wish there were more focus on item creation and less on magic triggered circumstances, but compared to what we could have gotten (been playing the same Artificer since 2017 UA) I'm pretty damn happy with it.

completly agree, you should check out the xptolevel3 artificer homebrew! It was made back when the UA artificer back in what 2015 or 16 was a thing? But yeah it focuses on inventing so you get inventor points to spend on features/inventions and upgrading them in custom ways like how you can get mechanical arm that has a grapple hand, spell holder to store a spell or two inside of, and a reinforcement for a bonus to AC. three ideas I had is a gnome riding a mechanical mount construct with acid and alchemy fire flasks like a mad bomber style, a grapple hand with a sniper rifle and a smoke stick (basically a smoke grenade), or even getting body mods to increase health and AC then using a blunderbuss on the front line using the thunder stone!

Overall the magic item creation is good but not as good as the official artificer, but it has far more customization in play style due to lacking a subclass and having tons of options and upgrade paths!

Both are great though really comes down to playstyle and theme honestly, not sure if I can share the link but will put it here in hopes that people are okay with it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jeqp5Ls9paEh0yZ0vyhJRoNKCJ4yARf2/view?fbclid=IwAR2gDZnFyh8Xqm3NSDK_frwS1Q8s7ZdRpIdbFaS_pjXE1661NST6H-41o74

This was actually a huge point of contention during the artificer's years-long UA cycle.  Many players wanted the artificer to have no class features whatsoever that were not related to the creation of discrete items that could be handed to someone else.  They wanted to be a crafter, creator, and inventor, not "a reskinned wizard/warlock/sorcerer/whatever"

The issue with this is that such a character is not an adventurer.  There is no reason for this type of artificer to travel with the party; the entire class feature list can simply be stapled onto another character with its own class features and make a character that does everything the artificer does in addition to its own abilities.  The artificer needs to be able to fight for itself and contribute to the party with its own abilities is critical to the class actually being worth including at the table.  Elsewise the artificer would serve better as a DM NPC that the party talks to for supplies in between adventuring runs.

Gotta respectfully disagree with some points though

"no reason to be an adventure": Maybe you seek some way to finish your great work but hit a road block and you are seeking something to spark an idea, a rare material, or maybe a new compound unknown to anyone else to accomplish it? Then you have the "I was thrown out of an inventors guild for too many "accidents" and I fell into a group of people who gave me purpose" kind of situation. There are plenty of ways, you could argue "why would a wizard capable of becoming a god become an adventurer when they would benefit more making money and buying everything or paying others to do it". 

As for other classes doing what it does but better I mean that is the current official Artificer... people play it for the flavor not because it is better than other classes lol. Meanwhile the homebrew I linked does what no other class does managing to be unique even if the whole party plays one none will be the same.
Example: The front line transforming themselves into full on machine turning their body into their work of art, The party caster would be stocking up on alchemy stuff and storing spells in their machine arm for backup, the party ranged damage dealer using a sniper with a grapple arm and smoke sticks, then the off tank using a shotgun with a grapple arm pulling people to him and having some machine parts for surviving the front line, then you could have a support using alchemical items, thunder stones, smoke sticks,  and using their clockwork creature to assist others.

But I kinda like having both options since it opens wider variety of character stories and concepts, otherwise I agree with everything to the most part.

You missed the point of what I was saying.  If you, as an artificer, have a set of class features that consist entirely of creating Inventions, which are then discrete in-world objects that anyone can use...there's no reason for you to be the one who uses them.  You are, to put it frankly, just a dude.  You get no extra attacks, you get no cool special abilities, you get no arcane power.  You're a dood.  A gai.  A schmuck.  Some bro whose class features work just as well whether you're there using them, or whether you're five hundred miles away in the workshop after saying "WHELP here's all the stuff my artificer levels let me make for you guys, now go off and enjoy, and remember to bring me back stuff to make the next batch with!"

Sure, you can accompany the party, but there's no mechanical reason for you to do so.  You contribute nothing to the party outside the things you've made, which can be used whether you're there or not.  You suck rocks at fighting because none of your class features make you good at fighting.  You suck rocks at exploration or out-of-battle utility because none of your class features make you good at those things.  You don't suck rocks at social encounters or peoplemancy because that's on the player rather than the character, but it also tends to only ever really come up in town, not during a field excursion.  Once you've made your cool items and handed them out, you are nothing but a burden on the party and the party will know it.

That's why the release artificer was as much a channeler as an inventor, someone who controls arcane power of their own via the use of arcane devises.  They're not gadgeteers, they're devisors with a talent for gadgeteering if they want to go that way.  Because if they were just gadgeteers, there's no point in risking your egghead stuff-maker in the field.

As for XP-to-3's 'Improved Artificer', it is super weird and I don't know what to do with it.  It's clearly based on the long-deprecated 2017 model, and the whole 'Invention Point' thing seems like it's groping towards the same idea that Wizards eventually settled on with Infusions, save without the ability to clone items and with a whole lot more Shadowrun than I'm used to seeing in my D&D.  Interesting idea, but it'd be weird even in Eberron, let alone anywhere else.

I did understand what you said, and I still disagree...

"A normal person making things for others and getting nothing" Uhm idk about you but I have seen plenty of fiction with strictly inventors who can do cool stuff using said stuff for themselves and allowing others to use them for other purposes.

"no peoplemancy skills" uhm yeah same with fighters, barbarians, wizards, druids, clerics, and rangers, along with paladins sometimes depending on oath and other stuff. It's about how you roleplay, it isn't always about dice rolls 24/7.

Your view on these things are very narrow, no need to go off like that man. Also as for "XP-to-3" and their homebrew version it is based on the 2017 version making it better and usable, as for being different that was kinda the point to not be a copy and paste class and to do something fun and new. I have like 6 character sheets made up with 6 different characters since it's release with fun concepts and interesting play styles that one day I wouldn't enjoy using all packed inside my ever growing character vault waiting to be used.

If a character's special ability is only to make useful things but they don't bring any other unique ability to an adventure sooner or later the entire party is going to sideline that character for everyone's benefit, and they would be right to do so. Why risk your gadgeteer in combat when you need them around to make and repair your cool gadgets for you? It benefits the party because they need that cool gear to keep being awesome adventurers, and it benefits the gadgeteer because then they can keep doing what they're good at instead of things they're bad at. After awhile you start to realize that what you're playing is an NPC who waits for the party back at camp, and that's no fun.

I like that the artificer we got is someone who is just as capable in combat and exploration as any other class, which means they need combat and exploration abilities and not just "give me a day or two and I'll outfit you with something to address that."

I am a staunch fan of the Artificer class and I gotta say, I originally wanted the class to be about nothing other than creating things and tool skill checks too (inspired heavily by the Science Bros from Critical Role). But now having played an Artificer since then in each of the UA/official iterations as they released, there's no way I'd want that anymore. Ophidi is right, after a while I felt a bit individually useless. But this official version, the party doesn't want to do with him.

Tl,dr; I agree with Ophidi and Yurei, from 3 years experience with the class, individual class traits make the class a PC worthy set of mechanics crucial to a party's skill set, rather than Boblin they've brought along for the ride.

I personally have run an Artificer from XP to Level 3's homebrew class. It was terribly broken, was awful and felt useless, and have now started using Artificers from Rising from the Last War. They're simpler, more balanced, and overall better. I like the current version, because I've experienced all previous versions and some homebrew versions of the class. 

Damn that is upsetting, I really liked the xp to level 3 artificer on paper... kinda depressing to see it doesn't scale well enough. Welp at least I still love the official even if I can't be an actual inventor it's still cool.

Still gotta disagree with yurei and Ophi on many of their points since an inventor artificer could be so much more and doesn't need to just invent things for others. I have seen plenty of shows and read plenty of fiction that would argue with that point... but what can be done and what wizard does is a different story so yes the past creations you are correct but what an artificer inventor could be you are wrong.

You know that in a world where there is magic, inventing using magic is basically engineering, right?

for me "inventing" means creating something new or improving upon what already exists through modifications while imbuing mundane things with magical energy to improve them feels more like an enchanter honestly, I mean at best the inventions feel more like a cousin of conjuration wizards than inventing or engineering. This isn't saying it's a bad thing by any means I have a few characters like this from the official in my character vault as well that I like the concept of. Just none of them are inventors and the closest being a sickly alchemist who seeks to cure his mysterious illness he has had since birth (kinda debated between alchemist from artificer and mutant from blood hunter for this one since both could have really cool story telling with their abilities).

But as for my battlesmith I have him having a natural affinity for magic in a family of known sorcerers but his magical ability was always subpar until in his teens he found he could imbue things with magic starting with creating a small bird out of a clump of steel. He loves nature so I theme his homunculus and his steel defender very steampunk meets druid like, he uses a bow from when he would go hunting in the forests and amplifies it with his magic (infusions) while having his steel wolf and clockwork hawk companions by his side.

Quote from SebbyRavencroft >>

for me "inventing" means creating something new or improving upon what already exists through modifications while imbuing mundane things with magical energy to improve them feels more like an enchanter honestly

Ok sure, but you get my point that in a reality where magic is a thing, working with magic is like working with science and technology, right?

"Improving upon what already exists through modifications"....is exactly what an artificer does with their Infusions?  The modifications are simply arcane in nature rather than mechanical, but in many cases the infusion is supposed to represent the artificer monkeying with the item, not just saying "this is magic now, sukkit."

Quote from SebbyRavencroft >>

Gotta respectfully disagree with some points though

"no reason to be an adventure": Maybe you seek some way to finish your great work but hit a road block and you are seeking something to spark an idea, a rare material, or maybe a new compound unknown to anyone else to accomplish it? Then you have the "I was thrown out of an inventors guild for too many "accidents" and I fell into a group of people who gave me purpose" kind of situation. There are plenty of ways, you could argue "why would a wizard capable of becoming a god become an adventurer when they would benefit more making money and buying everything or paying others to do it". 

As for other classes doing what it does but better I mean that is the current official Artificer... people play it for the flavor not because it is better than other classes lol. Meanwhile the homebrew I linked does what no other class does managing to be unique even if the whole party plays one none will be the same.
Example: The front line transforming themselves into full on machine turning their body into their work of art, The party caster would be stocking up on alchemy stuff and storing spells in their machine arm for backup, the party ranged damage dealer using a sniper with a grapple arm and smoke sticks, then the off tank using a shotgun with a grapple arm pulling people to him and having some machine parts for surviving the front line, then you could have a support using alchemical items, thunder stones, smoke sticks,  and using their clockwork creature to assist others.

But I kinda like having both options since it opens wider variety of character stories and concepts, otherwise I agree with everything to the most part.

Artificer is easily A tier bordering on S tier... I can agree that there are many who play it for its themes, but Artificer is a *powerful* class. It can fill nearly every role admirably and is the only class capable of circumventing the DM's monopoly on magic item availability. Just about the only thing it can't do is counterspell and provide high level spell solutions like planeshift. 

Artificer is basically D&D's answer to Steampunk.   Lets face it, you can't actualy build the devices people imagine for Steampunk, so the obvious solution is that it uses magic to make the giant walking robot that shoots it's hand like a missile attached to a chain.

Think if you want to play Agatha from Girl Genius.  She clearly makes magic using just some tools.  That's an Artificer.

Quote from SebbyRavencroft >>

Damn that is upsetting, I really liked the xp to level 3 artificer on paper... kinda depressing to see it doesn't scale well enough. Welp at least I still love the official even if I can't be an actual inventor it's still cool.

Still gotta disagree with yurei and Ophi on many of their points since an inventor artificer could be so much more and doesn't need to just invent things for others. I have seen plenty of shows and read plenty of fiction that would argue with that point... but what can be done and what wizard does is a different story so yes the past creations you are correct but what an artificer inventor could be you are wrong.

 the point they were making is not about the thematics, but mechanically. if the artificer only makes gadgets, than the artificer no longer needs to be with the party. the barbarian, wizard cleric or pretty much any other class can use the items just as well, or actually better in a lot of circumstances. then, if the artificer has no gear (all of it was handed out to the party for more benefit) then why are they adventuring in the first place

The classic example given for this sort of thing is, of course, Tony Stark and his Iron Man armor.  Something to the tune of "Tony doesn't have any special powers, but he keeps up with his "Adventuring Party" just fine using his inventions.  Why can't my artificer be like that?"

Your artificer absolutely can, of course.  It's Wizards' explicit intent that all of an artificer's ability stems from arcane creations and a keener understanding of the science of magic.  But here's an unpopular opinion for ye - Tony Stark has no bloody business being the man in the Iron Man armor.  He's brilliant, yes.  But he's also suffering a crippling injury in many cases that would disqualify him from frontline combat, and the fact that he made the armor does not mean he's the only one that can wear it, or even the best suited for it.  A trained fighter pilot, with honed reflexes, superior spatial awareness and better ability to withstand high-speed aerial combat, would be a much more skilled armor operator with any degree of training.  They would make a significantly better Iron Man than Iron Man does. 

The only reason Tony himself uses the armor is because of his ego and his damage - and in some cases, because the armor's power source is bolted into his ribcage rather than integrated into the armor.  In any other instance, that hypergenius intellect would be better served staying in a well-protected headquarters, building newer and better Iron Man units to deploy entire teams of power-armored superheroes rather than getting his irreplaceable mind all busted up in combat.

The Rising variation of the artificer has a unique and interesting blend of arcane and divine spellcasting, combining many of the best (lower-level) utility and buff spells in the game into one easily accessible class list.  It has the ability to save a bad roll with Flash of Genius.  It's better than many rogues at locksmithing with Tool Expertise affecting its thieves' tools.  It has the ability to retailor the party's magical item loadout in the field, defying the DM's restrictions on magic items to its small degree with careful planning on the part of its player.  Spell-Storing Item, if you ever get to it, allows the artificer to buy a particularly useful spell for the day in bulk in a way nobody else can.  Any non-Alchemist subclass has several other ways of helping.  The Rising artificer has a mechanical reason to accompany the party.  The Pure Invention artificers people were hoping they'd get instead does not.

You can still play the genius inventor.  Most of us do, in fact.  My own artificer is an archaeologist and explorer with as much Indiana Jones blood in her as there is Tony Stark; her tinkering and inventiveness is bent towards keeping herself and her sister safe in their dungeon crawls and letting her better discover the secrets of the past.  She goes with the party because Tempest sure as shit ain't gonna know what to look for when deciphering the secret clues and securing the hidden knowledge of an ancient, forgotten crypt.  Someone's gotta be able to read the forgotten languages, remember that the ancient Nothereians always put a Noteye of Nothorus somewhere on their traps to judge the (newly) dead, and be able to shoot a crypt stalker in the face with one hand while Curing the Wounds of whoever was dumb enough to wake up a nest of crypt stalkers with the other.

Star is hardly  "an item-based sorcerer".  She's a clever tinkerer and scrappy field explorer whose favored terrain is dungeons.  I see no reason why the current Rising ruleset for artificers is supposed to preclude this?