sfPanzer i never stated that you cant use different type of infusions with the level 9 feature. That is something you assuming.
But the rules for Multipe Items of the same kind and splitting up magic items comes in play with Arcane Propulsion Armor and Armor Modifications.
Yes the Armor Modifcations feature allows for the purpos of your infusion to split up your suit of armor into 4 Pices.
For exampel:
Helm of Awareness (Helmet Slot)
Mind Sharpener (Armor Slot)
Boots of the Winding Path (Boot Slot)
Enhanced Weapon ( For you gauntlet slot which doesnt work right now)
All of this works fine. I understand how the level 9 Armor Modifications works. (By the way this should be part of the level 3 feature but thats my opinion)
But now comes the problem with the Arcane Propulsion Armor.
The ruling of what a suit of armor is, the dmg ruling for multiple items of the same kind and the rules for splitting up magic items.
First of Arcane Propulsion Armor creats gauntlets that count as magic item. This blocks your infusion slot not only for you gauntlets but you have now the problem that you cant use your Guardian special weapon and the magic weapon of your Propulsion Armor. And oh boy it gets batter. You could now say well i dont use the gloves of the Propulsion Armor but here is where we run into the second problem. You cant split magic items or they do not work at all.
So if you want to have the bonus of the infusion, you cant use your guardian wepaon (which is your class...) And the level 9 feature cant come into play cous its blocked by the splitting up magic item rule and wearing multipe gauntlets at the same time.
And even if you argue (which you could do) that the weapon of the Propulsion Armor is upgreaded with the Guardian wepaon and you can choos the mode in wihich you attack, you would still loos the slot for the gauntlet infsuion since the Propulsion Amor weapon counts as Magic item ( and yes the 9th level feature doesnt change anything about that).
For exampel:
The Armor @ level 14 takes a suit of armor and uses the Arcane Propulsion Armor infusion on it.
Now the Armorer turns it into his/her Arcane Armor.
Since part of the infsuion are the magic gauntlets the Suit of Armor is now a magic item. (which could mean that we cant use any other infusion even with the level 9 feature by the way)
First of we cant use the effect of the Guardian weapon and usinge the Propulsion weapon. (So you never would be able to use 1d8 thunder + 1d8 force + int for your damge calculation)
We would have to choos if we use the Arcane Propulsion weapon for range or the Guardian weapon for a meale attack and debuff.
And yes there are arguments that both weapon effects trigger if the target is hit, but there are many other instances wehre it states you cant stack to wepaons at the same time.
For 100% you cant infuse your gauntlets. If this extends to the helmet, and the shoes i cant say for sure. RAW i would say yes even with the level 9 featurs cous of the rulings explained above and what a suit of armor is.
i hope it helps to get my point. i love artificer and wish we could use Arcane propulsion armor. It would be so cool and would make that level 14 investment in this class something special. (and as a dm i totally would allow it) But RAW it is a problem.
I get that the point of this discussion is about ambiguity on where magic (or infused) armor properties can interfere with the full features of Arcane Armor, but my mind will not stop boggling about why an Armorer Artificer would use up a level 14 infusion on Arcane Propulsion Armor when even the level 3 Arcane Armor provides ~80% of the functionality (aside from the force rocket punch) and loads more features and flexibility, without even taking up an infusion or attunement slot. The Arcane Propulsion Armor infusion was from Eberron, before there was an Armorer subclass. The benefit of having Arcane Propulsion Armor still available as an infusion is so that someone other than an Armorer could have power armor if they get past level 14.
I get that the point of this discussion is about ambiguity on where magic (or infused) armor properties can interfere with the full features of Arcane Armor, but my mind will not stop boggling about why an Armorer Artificer would use up a level 14 infusion on Arcane Propulsion Armor when even the level 3 Arcane Armor provides ~80% of the functionality (aside from the force rocket punch) and loads more features and flexibility, without even taking up an infusion or attunement slot. The Arcane Propulsion Armor infusion was from Eberron, before there was an Armorer subclass. The benefit of having Arcane Propulsion Armor still available as an infusion is so that someone other than an Armorer could have power armor if they get past level 14.
Agreed, it's a largely redudnant infusion more fitting for a non-Armorer wanting to play an Armorer-lite.
Or maybe the Armorer gets to level 14 and takes that infusion in order to make power armor for another party member, or their "sidekick" :D
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
You are absolutely wrong, as it's been pointed out, Arcane propulsion Armour holds the SUIT OF ARMOR tag which if you read the armorer Subclass, the Arcane Armor feat turns the SUIT OF ARMOR into Arcane ARMOR. Now the lvl 9 feat allows you to infuse each piece of the Arcane propulsion Armour with different infusions. This means you can I fuse the boots with winged boots, you can infuse any part of the Armour with magic.
Jrpergande78 where iam wrong? if you allow it on your table thats tottally fine raw it doesnt work for rules i all ready pointet out. And you have to start to make a difference between magic items und magical infused items ( two totally different thinks when it comes to your arcane armor)
I even said you can use your winged boots infusion but you couldnt say put on the magic item winged boots. (two different things)
The level 9 featur Armor Modifications givs you 2 things. First and most importent the class could not work with the standard rules for the class kit artificer, so they had to fix the class featur on Infus Items. And second, it gives 2 more infusions for your arcane armor.
They do that by extending the rule text of Infuse Items feature with the rule text of Armor Modications:
You must touch each of the objects, and each of your infusions can be in only one object at a time. Moreover, no object can bear more than one of your infusions at a time.
You learn how to use your artificer infusions to specially modify your Arcane Armor. That armor now counts as separate items for the purposes of your Infuse Items feature: armor (the chest piece), boots, helmet, and the armor’s special weapon.
The level 9 featur Armor Modifications does not interfear with any rule that are stated in the PHB, DMG and Tashas .
Withe Armor Modificaitons you can not ignore the following rules:
You can only infuse mundain items which means no magic items for your infusions (yes a magic armor if it is a suit that is a full body armor can become your arcane armor)
You can not split up a pair or set of a magic item. (for exampel if you split up yor gauntlets of oger strengh and would only wear one they would stop working until you wear both)
You cannot wear magic items that are on the same slots. (for exampel you cant wear 2 pairs of gauntlets but you can wear a pair of gauntlets and gloves undearneath it)
So for you argument "iam wrong" on Propulsion Armor (by the way this feature existet befor the subclass)
Arcane Propulsion Armor
Prerequisite: 14th-level artificer Item: A suit of armor (requires attunement)
The wearer of this armor gains these benefits:
The wearer’s walking speed increases by 5 feet.
The armor includes gauntlets, each of which is a magic melee weapon that can be wielded only when the hand is holding nothing.
The wearer is proficient with the gauntlets, and each one deals 1d8 force damage on a hit and has the thrown property, with a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet. When thrown, the gauntlet detaches and flies at the attack’s target, then immediately returns to the wearer and reattaches
The armor can’t be removed against the wearer’s will.
If the wearer is missing any limbs, the armor replaces those limbs—hands, arms, feet, legs, or similar appendages. The replacements function identically to the body parts they replace.
asd
So this is whats happening now. You take in our exampel a Plate Male. Plate male is a mundain item and a suit of armor (full body). It qulifys for our 2 featurs. One it can be an Arcane Armor and second we can infuse.
Step 1 we put our level 14 Infusion Arcane Propulsion Armor on our mundain plate male armor suit.
Step 2 we as master genius delcear now our Arcane Proulsion Armor Plate male suit as our Arcane Armor.
Step 3 we creat now with out Infuse Item features winged boots and put them on ... oh we cant we are screwd.
While yes your Armor Modification Featur allows you to treat your Suit of Armor not as 1 item but 4 items for the Infus Item featur, The Propulsion Armor is 1 Suit 1 Magic item that cant be split up. Since Propulsion Armor creat MAGIC weapons which are part of the armor and you cannot split up magic items (thats wy it is importent to understand what a suit of armor is) we cant infus any other parts of our arcane armor even with the rule extansion of our 9th level featur.
RAW this rules jump now in:
You can only infuse mundain items which means no magic items for your infusions (yes a magic armor if it is a suit that is a full body armor can become your arcane armor)
You can not split up a pair or set of a magic item. (for exampel if you split up yor gauntlets of oger strengh and would only wear one they would stop working until you wear both)
You cannot wear magic items that are on the same slots. (for exampel you cant wear 2 pairs of gauntlets but you can wear a pair of gauntlets and gloves undearneath it)
So wy do all this rules collide only with the infisuion Arcane Propulsion armor and not with the other infusions wy do they work? It is of the nature what a Propulsion Armor is. It is a complete body suit that is very importent. The level 9th featur Armor Modifciations does allow us to treat our Arcane armor as 4 different items that is true. But for a suit of armor become a Arcane Propulsion Armor it has to be full suit of body armor since Arcane Proulsion is a power armor like iron mans. You cant remove any part or the ruls on pair of magic itmes come into play as allsow the rule that you cant infuse magic items . The problems are the magic gauntlets that come with the suit and that the propulsion amor needs to be suit of armor)
and yes you can use in combination Armor of Magical Strength, Helm of Awareness, A pair of Oger gauntlets and winged boots with out a problem. but non of them can be used with arcane propulsion armor rules as written. Rules intended may be different and i would allow it on my table but i am talking raw using all the rules in the book.
My interpretation of the armorer rules is that they can turn any suit of armor into their arcane armor, which then covers their whole body. I think the *intention* here was plate armor, since it's the only armor that explicitly is a full suit (and they're going for the Iron Man aesthetic). However, if you read the equipment section and the blurbs on the armors, most of them say they're a breastplate, jacket, cuirass etc. *as well as* some padding and gloves/boots. I think the designers interpret all armor as full body armor.
That being said, any class can pop on some magic boots or gloves while wearing their armor, even plate. It's weird to assume an armorer loses the ability to wear regular magic items because of some strange wording about their armor covering their entire body, though it might be intentional since they're getting the benefits of their Arcane Armor, 2 extra infusion slots at 9th level, as well as regular artificer infusions. Oddly, RAW I'd think they'd still be able to wear a magic helmet since they can retract their arcane armor's helmet at will.
The issue causing confusion is that the items created by the infusion "Replicate Magic Item" are *not themselves* infusions that can be placed on Helmet/Weapon/Boot slots, like enhanced defense, mind sharpener, etc. They're items you've created that you have to attune to and wear. Can you pull the boots off of your arcane armor and replace them with winged boots? I don't know. The language of Arcane Armor implies no, but doesn't explicitly forbid it. It seems needlessly fussy, since I'd think a Ring of Jumping or a Cloak of Elvenkind created by Replicate Magic Item would be completely fine. Unless your arcane armor covering your whole body counts as it occupying every available item slot you have.
This subclass sorely needs some errata, as this and the "can I infuse the helmet/boot slots of my 9th level arcane armor if the original armor I used to create it is magical" question comes up all the time.
sfPanzer i never stated that you cant use different type of infusions with the level 9 feature. That is something you assuming.
But the rules for Multipe Items of the same kind and splitting up magic items comes in play with Arcane Propulsion Armor and Armor Modifications.
Yes the Armor Modifcations feature allows for the purpos of your infusion to split up your suit of armor into 4 Pices.
For exampel:
All of this works fine. I understand how the level 9 Armor Modifications works. (By the way this should be part of the level 3 feature but thats my opinion)
But now comes the problem with the Arcane Propulsion Armor.
The ruling of what a suit of armor is, the dmg ruling for multiple items of the same kind and the rules for splitting up magic items.
First of Arcane Propulsion Armor creats gauntlets that count as magic item. This blocks your infusion slot not only for you gauntlets but you have now the problem that you cant use your Guardian special weapon and the magic weapon of your Propulsion Armor. And oh boy it gets batter. You could now say well i dont use the gloves of the Propulsion Armor but here is where we run into the second problem. You cant split magic items or they do not work at all.
So if you want to have the bonus of the infusion, you cant use your guardian wepaon (which is your class...) And the level 9 feature cant come into play cous its blocked by the splitting up magic item rule and wearing multipe gauntlets at the same time.
And even if you argue (which you could do) that the weapon of the Propulsion Armor is upgreaded with the Guardian wepaon and you can choos the mode in wihich you attack, you would still loos the slot for the gauntlet infsuion since the Propulsion Amor weapon counts as Magic item ( and yes the 9th level feature doesnt change anything about that).
For exampel:
The Armor @ level 14 takes a suit of armor and uses the Arcane Propulsion Armor infusion on it.
Now the Armorer turns it into his/her Arcane Armor.
Since part of the infsuion are the magic gauntlets the Suit of Armor is now a magic item. (which could mean that we cant use any other infusion even with the level 9 feature by the way)
First of we cant use the effect of the Guardian weapon and usinge the Propulsion weapon. (So you never would be able to use 1d8 thunder + 1d8 force + int for your damge calculation)
We would have to choos if we use the Arcane Propulsion weapon for range or the Guardian weapon for a meale attack and debuff.
And yes there are arguments that both weapon effects trigger if the target is hit, but there are many other instances wehre it states you cant stack to wepaons at the same time.
For 100% you cant infuse your gauntlets. If this extends to the helmet, and the shoes i cant say for sure. RAW i would say yes even with the level 9 featurs cous of the rulings explained above and what a suit of armor is.
i hope it helps to get my point. i love artificer and wish we could use Arcane propulsion armor. It would be so cool and would make that level 14 investment in this class something special. (and as a dm i totally would allow it) But RAW it is a problem.
I get that the point of this discussion is about ambiguity on where magic (or infused) armor properties can interfere with the full features of Arcane Armor, but my mind will not stop boggling about why an Armorer Artificer would use up a level 14 infusion on Arcane Propulsion Armor when even the level 3 Arcane Armor provides ~80% of the functionality (aside from the force rocket punch) and loads more features and flexibility, without even taking up an infusion or attunement slot. The Arcane Propulsion Armor infusion was from Eberron, before there was an Armorer subclass. The benefit of having Arcane Propulsion Armor still available as an infusion is so that someone other than an Armorer could have power armor if they get past level 14.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Or maybe the Armorer gets to level 14 and takes that infusion in order to make power armor for another party member, or their "sidekick" :D
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
You are absolutely wrong, as it's been pointed out, Arcane propulsion Armour holds the SUIT OF ARMOR tag which if you read the armorer Subclass, the Arcane Armor feat turns the SUIT OF ARMOR into Arcane ARMOR. Now the lvl 9 feat allows you to infuse each piece of the Arcane propulsion Armour with different infusions. This means you can I fuse the boots with winged boots, you can infuse any part of the Armour with magic.
Jrpergande78 where iam wrong? if you allow it on your table thats tottally fine raw it doesnt work for rules i all ready pointet out. And you have to start to make a difference between magic items und magical infused items ( two totally different thinks when it comes to your arcane armor)
I even said you can use your winged boots infusion but you couldnt say put on the magic item winged boots. (two different things)
The level 9 featur Armor Modifications givs you 2 things. First and most importent the class could not work with the standard rules for the class kit artificer, so they had to fix the class featur on Infus Items. And second, it gives 2 more infusions for your arcane armor.
They do that by extending the rule text of Infuse Items feature with the rule text of Armor Modications:
The level 9 featur Armor Modifications does not interfear with any rule that are stated in the PHB, DMG and Tashas .
Withe Armor Modificaitons you can not ignore the following rules:
So for you argument "iam wrong" on Propulsion Armor (by the way this feature existet befor the subclass)
Arcane Propulsion Armor
Prerequisite: 14th-level artificer
Item: A suit of armor (requires attunement)
asd
So this is whats happening now. You take in our exampel a Plate Male. Plate male is a mundain item and a suit of armor (full body). It qulifys for our 2 featurs. One it can be an Arcane Armor and second we can infuse.
While yes your Armor Modification Featur allows you to treat your Suit of Armor not as 1 item but 4 items for the Infus Item featur, The Propulsion Armor is 1 Suit 1 Magic item that cant be split up. Since Propulsion Armor creat MAGIC weapons which are part of the armor and you cannot split up magic items (thats wy it is importent to understand what a suit of armor is) we cant infus any other parts of our arcane armor even with the rule extansion of our 9th level featur.
RAW this rules jump now in:
So wy do all this rules collide only with the infisuion Arcane Propulsion armor and not with the other infusions wy do they work? It is of the nature what a Propulsion Armor is. It is a complete body suit that is very importent. The level 9th featur Armor Modifciations does allow us to treat our Arcane armor as 4 different items that is true. But for a suit of armor become a Arcane Propulsion Armor it has to be full suit of body armor since Arcane Proulsion is a power armor like iron mans. You cant remove any part or the ruls on pair of magic itmes come into play as allsow the rule that you cant infuse magic items . The problems are the magic gauntlets that come with the suit and that the propulsion amor needs to be suit of armor)
and yes you can use in combination Armor of Magical Strength, Helm of Awareness, A pair of Oger gauntlets and winged boots with out a problem. but non of them can be used with arcane propulsion armor rules as written. Rules intended may be different and i would allow it on my table but i am talking raw using all the rules in the book.
I think TomTron might be correct.
My interpretation of the armorer rules is that they can turn any suit of armor into their arcane armor, which then covers their whole body. I think the *intention* here was plate armor, since it's the only armor that explicitly is a full suit (and they're going for the Iron Man aesthetic). However, if you read the equipment section and the blurbs on the armors, most of them say they're a breastplate, jacket, cuirass etc. *as well as* some padding and gloves/boots. I think the designers interpret all armor as full body armor.
That being said, any class can pop on some magic boots or gloves while wearing their armor, even plate. It's weird to assume an armorer loses the ability to wear regular magic items because of some strange wording about their armor covering their entire body, though it might be intentional since they're getting the benefits of their Arcane Armor, 2 extra infusion slots at 9th level, as well as regular artificer infusions. Oddly, RAW I'd think they'd still be able to wear a magic helmet since they can retract their arcane armor's helmet at will.
The issue causing confusion is that the items created by the infusion "Replicate Magic Item" are *not themselves* infusions that can be placed on Helmet/Weapon/Boot slots, like enhanced defense, mind sharpener, etc. They're items you've created that you have to attune to and wear. Can you pull the boots off of your arcane armor and replace them with winged boots? I don't know. The language of Arcane Armor implies no, but doesn't explicitly forbid it. It seems needlessly fussy, since I'd think a Ring of Jumping or a Cloak of Elvenkind created by Replicate Magic Item would be completely fine. Unless your arcane armor covering your whole body counts as it occupying every available item slot you have.
This subclass sorely needs some errata, as this and the "can I infuse the helmet/boot slots of my 9th level arcane armor if the original armor I used to create it is magical" question comes up all the time.