Want to make a path of the beast barbarian and I feel like GWF and POM are overplayed, so I was wondering what people think the next best options are. Making a variant human, so taking a feat a level one. Not looking to optimize, just fun builds.
Example: Taking shield master, this allows my character to still make claw attacks while shoving the opponent prone with BA, plus getting the bonus to dex saves.
Sentinel is always a strong choice for defender builds. I also really like Shield Master on Beast Barbarian. Durable and Tough are also solid options for Barbarians, but less exciting in actual combat.
Are the claws your preferred Beast weapon choice? Piercer with the Tail could be interesting as it lets you re-roll the damage, as well as essentially getting brutal criticals from an early level and it's a half feat (good for getting an extra score to 16 early on). Plus the tail reaction can pair with a shield to make you seriously hard to hit, though whether you want to do this depends on your DM (if enemies avoid you because you are hard to hit then it'll make it harder to draw enemy attacks away from your party, so Sentinel may be better).
Durable and Tough are also solid options for Barbarians, but less exciting in actual combat.
I tend to think of Tough as a bit of a trap on characters that are already tough to begin with; feats that let you do something new, especially if that helps take enemies out faster, will tend to prevent more damage than Tough adds in hitpoints. That said, it stacks with Rage so it's better value on a Barbarian, but I still wouldn't take it personally. I'd be more tempted by Durable as if you can get your Constitution to an odd score then it will push you up one for more HP and really reliable healing on short rests.
It's just a shame the tail attack is piercing and not bludgeoning (as a lot of other tail attacks are on monsters etc.) as bludgeoning would have made the Crusher feat an option, as I really like that one (you can use it to prevent attacks of opportunity against allies, and the crit bonus is fantastic if you get it).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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Want to make a path of the beast barbarian and I feel like GWF and POM are overplayed, so I was wondering what people think the next best options are. Making a variant human, so taking a feat a level one. Not looking to optimize, just fun builds.
Example: Taking shield master, this allows my character to still make claw attacks while shoving the opponent prone with BA, plus getting the bonus to dex saves.
Skill Expert (Strength, Athletics) is a great choice if you're looking to make a shovebarian.
If your DM allows the natural weapons to count as unarmed strikes for Tavern Brawler, that can be a fun one. My DM allows it, so I am using it on my Path of the Beast, but I think technically they don't qualify as unarmed strikes (they are considered weapons and natural weapons, but those aren't unarmed strikes IIRC) but he agreed that it makes sense you should be able to grapple something you bite/swipe your sharp clawed hands at (since it applies to a tabaxi's slashing unarmed strikes) or wrap up with your tail.
It that sounds fun to you talk to your DM about their thoughts on it. It works great with barbarians being awesome grapplers, and gives more tactical depth to playing a barbarian by opening up some battle field control instead of just rage smashing everything.
Sentinel is always a strong choice for defender builds. I also really like Shield Master on Beast Barbarian. Durable and Tough are also solid options for Barbarians, but less exciting in actual combat.
I've played a Shield Master Beast Barb. It's fricking amazing. No weapon in hand = 3 attacks at level 5, plus your hand is free for grapples.
Sentinel is good for all melee characters, especially if there are other melee characters as well..
If noone else has Sentinel, I would also suggest Mobility, to get in melee range of those squishy casters behind the line of grunts. If someone does have sentinel on your team, than ignore mobility and draw the attack of opportunity so your allies can smack em with their reaction.
Tavern brawler is also good if you are trying to grapple targets and it triggers as a bonus action from your claw strikes I believe. You also get the half stat bump as well
Combine with two weapon fighting style, either via multiclassing or martial initiate feat, and you're looking at a total DPR babe.
Three attacks in tier 1, four at tier 2. Either when you're fighting barehanded or using a weapon, you're still getting the AC bonus too.
The rules don't allow that.
PHB
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
Combine with two weapon fighting style, either via multiclassing or martial initiate feat, and you're looking at a total DPR babe.
Three attacks in tier 1, four at tier 2. Either when you're fighting barehanded or using a weapon, you're still getting the AC bonus too.
The rules don't allow that.
PHB
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
Dual wielder
You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you are wielding a separate melee weapon in each hand.
You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one handed melee weapons you are wielding aren’t light.
You can draw or stow two one-handed weapons when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.
I seriously cannot believe you missed the first line of the post. The first!
Yeah.. dual wielding doesn’t work that way cgario. SeanJP highlighted the right points
the only way I think an extra bonus attack would work is with a level in Monk for martial arts… and as interesting as a Barbarian-Monk might be, It’s certainly not optimized and the commitment of at least a level I doubt is worth it… but that’s the only way I can see getting the bonus action for the claw attack
Yeah.. dual wielding doesn’t work that way cgario. SeanJP highlighted the right points
the only way I think an extra bonus attack would work is with a level in Monk for martial arts… and as interesting as a Barbarian-Monk might be, It’s certainly not optimized and the commitment of at least a level I doubt is worth it… but that’s the only way I can see getting the bonus action for the claw attack
Did I step into the twilight zone or something?
Assuming the barb is barehanded or at least wielding a weaponin one hand, a beast barbarian is always wielding two weapons-- claws count as simple weapons for them. Normally, you cannot use two weapon fighting if BOTH weapons are NOT light.
Dual wielder states you can use two weapon fighting style even when the weapons are not light; therefore, you can use two weapon fighting style with claws.
Combine with two weapon fighting style, either via multiclassing or martial initiate feat, and you're looking at a total DPR babe.
Three attacks in tier 1, four at tier 2. Either when you're fighting barehanded or using a weapon, you're still getting the AC bonus too.
The rules don't allow that.
PHB
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
Dual wielder
You gain a +1 bonus to AC while you are wielding a separate melee weapon in each hand.
You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one handed melee weapons you are wielding aren’t light.
You can draw or stow two one-handed weapons when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.
I seriously cannot believe you missed the first line of the post. The first!
The feat only removes the "light" requirement. Not the "that you are holding in (one/the other) hand" requirements for two-weapon fighting.
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
It still has to do with Holding the weapon.. it's like why Unarmed Strikes were pulled from the weapons table in later editions, because they dont follow the same rules. You can always make an attack as an unarmed strike in place of one of your weapon attacks, but they arent weapons you Wield or Hold so to say, so you can't make that unarmed strike with the bonus action. The Monk is the only class that sidesteps this rule as far as i know
There have been a bunch of discussions on the past with this (if you want to look them up on google, there's even a good discussion even on dnd beyond) as well as a few sage advice comments... but ultimately it's not RAW, but there's nothing holding back on a home brew ruling to allow it. It's just not RAW.
His rationale, like others have commented, was: "[Two-weapon fighting] specifies a weapon you are holding. Natural weapons are weapons, not unarmed strikes, but you aren't holding them."
Unfortunately, that is how the rules are written. I personally think it is very abstract and limiting, similar to how, by RAW, a Paladin cannot smite with an unarmed attack. At my table I'd allow dual wielding with claws and paladins to smite with their fists, as it really doesn't unbalance the game too much, and even if it does, it lets the players have fun. If they're having fun, I'm having fun, so it doesn't bother me. But, again, it is technically against the rules.
Unfortunately, that is how the rules are written. I personally think it is very abstract and limiting, similar to how, by RAW, a Paladin cannot smite with an unarmed attack. At my table I'd allow dual wielding with claws and paladins to smite with their fists, as it really doesn't unbalance the game too much, and even if it does, it lets the players have fun. If they're having fun, I'm having fun, so it doesn't bother me. But, again, it is technically against the rules.
In the case of the Beast's claws, there are actual mechanical considerations. 4 claw attacks would definitely be a buff, because each strike adds strength and rage bonuss.
If you take the two weapon fighting style, otherwise it just adds the rage damage on the 4th attack. It is still overall a buff, but with d6 damage dice you aren't dishing out the same numbers in the damage department as GWM attacks, you just have more chances for less damaging attacks to hit, so your damage floor per turn is higher.
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Want to make a path of the beast barbarian and I feel like GWF and POM are overplayed, so I was wondering what people think the next best options are. Making a variant human, so taking a feat a level one. Not looking to optimize, just fun builds.
Example: Taking shield master, this allows my character to still make claw attacks while shoving the opponent prone with BA, plus getting the bonus to dex saves.
Sentinel is always a strong choice for defender builds. I also really like Shield Master on Beast Barbarian. Durable and Tough are also solid options for Barbarians, but less exciting in actual combat.
Are the claws your preferred Beast weapon choice? Piercer with the Tail could be interesting as it lets you re-roll the damage, as well as essentially getting brutal criticals from an early level and it's a half feat (good for getting an extra score to 16 early on). Plus the tail reaction can pair with a shield to make you seriously hard to hit, though whether you want to do this depends on your DM (if enemies avoid you because you are hard to hit then it'll make it harder to draw enemy attacks away from your party, so Sentinel may be better).
I tend to think of Tough as a bit of a trap on characters that are already tough to begin with; feats that let you do something new, especially if that helps take enemies out faster, will tend to prevent more damage than Tough adds in hitpoints. That said, it stacks with Rage so it's better value on a Barbarian, but I still wouldn't take it personally. I'd be more tempted by Durable as if you can get your Constitution to an odd score then it will push you up one for more HP and really reliable healing on short rests.
It's just a shame the tail attack is piercing and not bludgeoning (as a lot of other tail attacks are on monsters etc.) as bludgeoning would have made the Crusher feat an option, as I really like that one (you can use it to prevent attacks of opportunity against allies, and the crit bonus is fantastic if you get it).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Skill Expert (Strength, Athletics) is a great choice if you're looking to make a shovebarian.
If your DM allows the natural weapons to count as unarmed strikes for Tavern Brawler, that can be a fun one. My DM allows it, so I am using it on my Path of the Beast, but I think technically they don't qualify as unarmed strikes (they are considered weapons and natural weapons, but those aren't unarmed strikes IIRC) but he agreed that it makes sense you should be able to grapple something you bite/swipe your sharp clawed hands at (since it applies to a tabaxi's slashing unarmed strikes) or wrap up with your tail.
It that sounds fun to you talk to your DM about their thoughts on it. It works great with barbarians being awesome grapplers, and gives more tactical depth to playing a barbarian by opening up some battle field control instead of just rage smashing everything.
I've played a Shield Master Beast Barb. It's fricking amazing. No weapon in hand = 3 attacks at level 5, plus your hand is free for grapples.
Sentinel is good for all melee characters, especially if there are other melee characters as well..
If noone else has Sentinel, I would also suggest Mobility, to get in melee range of those squishy casters behind the line of grunts. If someone does have sentinel on your team, than ignore mobility and draw the attack of opportunity so your allies can smack em with their reaction.
Tavern brawler is also good if you are trying to grapple targets and it triggers as a bonus action from your claw strikes I believe. You also get the half stat bump as well
Dual wielder-- for the claws.
Combine with two weapon fighting style, either via multiclassing or martial initiate feat, and you're looking at a total DPR babe.
Three attacks in tier 1, four at tier 2. Either when you're fighting barehanded or using a weapon, you're still getting the AC bonus too.
The rules don't allow that.
PHB
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
Dual wielder
I seriously cannot believe you missed the first line of the post. The first!
Yeah.. dual wielding doesn’t work that way cgario. SeanJP highlighted the right points
the only way I think an extra bonus attack would work is with a level in Monk for martial arts… and as interesting as a Barbarian-Monk might be, It’s certainly not optimized and the commitment of at least a level I doubt is worth it… but that’s the only way I can see getting the bonus action for the claw attack
Did I step into the twilight zone or something?
Assuming the barb is barehanded or at least wielding a weaponin one hand, a beast barbarian is always wielding two weapons-- claws count as simple weapons for them. Normally, you cannot use two weapon fighting if BOTH weapons are NOT light.
Dual wielder states you can use two weapon fighting style even when the weapons are not light; therefore, you can use two weapon fighting style with claws.
What part of that am I misinterpreting?
The feat only removes the "light" requirement. Not the "that you are holding in (one/the other) hand" requirements for two-weapon fighting.
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
But you're holding a weapon just by having claws! They count as simple weapons!
It still has to do with Holding the weapon.. it's like why Unarmed Strikes were pulled from the weapons table in later editions, because they dont follow the same rules. You can always make an attack as an unarmed strike in place of one of your weapon attacks, but they arent weapons you Wield or Hold so to say, so you can't make that unarmed strike with the bonus action. The Monk is the only class that sidesteps this rule as far as i know
There have been a bunch of discussions on the past with this (if you want to look them up on google, there's even a good discussion even on dnd beyond) as well as a few sage advice comments... but ultimately it's not RAW, but there's nothing holding back on a home brew ruling to allow it. It's just not RAW.
Dan Dillon, a game designer for D&D, had commented back when this subclass was released as UA that the natural weapons were not eligible for two-weapon fighting. You can see his comments here: https://www.sageadvice.eu/path-of-the-beastdoes-the-attack-from-form-of-the-beast-have-to-be-from-your-attack-action/
His rationale, like others have commented, was: "[Two-weapon fighting] specifies a weapon you are holding. Natural weapons are weapons, not unarmed strikes, but you aren't holding them."
Unfortunately, that is how the rules are written. I personally think it is very abstract and limiting, similar to how, by RAW, a Paladin cannot smite with an unarmed attack. At my table I'd allow dual wielding with claws and paladins to smite with their fists, as it really doesn't unbalance the game too much, and even if it does, it lets the players have fun. If they're having fun, I'm having fun, so it doesn't bother me. But, again, it is technically against the rules.
In the case of the Beast's claws, there are actual mechanical considerations. 4 claw attacks would definitely be a buff, because each strike adds strength and rage bonuss.
If you take the two weapon fighting style, otherwise it just adds the rage damage on the 4th attack. It is still overall a buff, but with d6 damage dice you aren't dishing out the same numbers in the damage department as GWM attacks, you just have more chances for less damaging attacks to hit, so your damage floor per turn is higher.