I was thinking of building a Path of the Beast barbarian, flavored as the dangerous claws/fangs of a Dhampir, but was wondering if the two different bites built on each other. The Dhampir ability saying:
“Your fanged bite is a natural weapon, which counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. You add your Constitution modifier, instead of your Strength modifier, to the attack and damage rolls when you attack with this bite. It deals 1d4 piercing damage on a hit. While you are missing half or more of your hit points, you have advantage on attack rolls you make with this bite.”
The path ability saying:
”Your mouth transforms into a bestial muzzle or great mandibles (your choice). It deals 1d8 piercing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you damage a creature with this bite, you regain a number of hit points equal to your proficiency bonus, provided you have less than half your hit points when you hit.”
Could you rage to increase your bite from a d4 to a d8 and still use the constitution mod for attack and damage? If you can’t, can you still empower the rage bite?
”When you attack with this bite and hit a creature that isn’t a Construct or an Undead, you can empower yourself in one of the following ways of your choice:
You regain hit points equal to the piercing damage dealt by the bite.
You gain a bonus to the next ability check or attack roll you make; the bonus equals the piercing damage dealt by the bite.”
The Path of the Beast transforms your natual fanged bite mouth into a bestial muzzle or great mandibles that provide different statistics so it should take precedence. You can always ask your DM if you can use one or the other or combine them.
I would rule it as a no. Its 2 abilities from 2 different sources that use different modifiers even though they are both called bite. So I would rule you use either one or the other, like how I would rule unarmored defense from Barbarian and Monk
I would rule it as a YES. And here is why: You bite. You have vampiric fangs already always on. And on top of this, you grow bestial fangs, too. If you use the same teeth for this, it is impossible to only use one of them when you slam your teeth into your enemy`s flesh. The rules are meant otherwise, but it is ridiculous. You: "My beast-bite attack hit!" DM: "Role damage. But only for the beast bite, because, although your vampiric teeth are also stuck into the target`s flesh, they don`t cause damage." You: "How can that be?" It can´t. In real life, when you punch someone with brass knuckles, you don`t have to pick either of the damages, your fist OR the knuckles. You do both. And yes, also the damage modifiers, Strength and Con do stack. Of course. And you get the healing from both. Of course. When you now say, that it is OP., take into account, that a paladin can do weapon damage plus 2D8 or 3D8 against an undead with a level 1 spell slot. And Lay on hands, and full weapon and armor proficiency and spell casting!
I would rule it as a YES. And here is why: You bite. You have vampiric fangs already always on. And on top of this, you grow bestial fangs, too. If you use the same teeth for this, it is impossible to only use one of them when you slam your teeth into your enemy`s flesh. The rules are meant otherwise, but it is ridiculous. You: "My beast-bite attack hit!" DM: "Role damage. But only for the beast bite, because, although your vampiric teeth are also stuck into the target`s flesh, they don`t cause damage." You: "How can that be?" It can´t. In real life, when you punch someone with brass knuckles, you don`t have to pick either of the damages, your fist OR the knuckles. You do both. And yes, also the damage modifiers, Strength and Con do stack. Of course. And you get the healing from both. Of course. When you now say, that it is OP., take into account, that a paladin can do weapon damage plus 2D8 or 3D8 against an undead with a level 1 spell slot. And Lay on hands, and full weapon and armor proficiency and spell casting!
If they stack, you are looking at a character at level 3 with no multiclass shenanigans have a attack that does 1d8 + 3 (STR mod) + 1d4 +3 (CON mod) + 2 (Rage damage) that heals for 1d8 + 1d4 + 10. And if you stack the + hit its at +8 to hit (STR+CON+prof) otherwise +5 to hit with advantage from the Dhampir ability or Reckless Attack.
Oh and that healing is effectively DOUBLED because a Barb would usually only take half damage while Raging.
Do you begin to see how this character might easily outshine the other party members in combat?
Also comparisons to a Paladin's Divine Smite is moot because it uses a spell slot, a resource which Barbarians in general do not have nor need. The best comparison in the situation is to a Rogue's Sneak Attack which at level 3 would deal weapon damage +2d6 which the stacked Bite easily surpasses before even factoring in the healing.
Thematically it makes sense. Mechanically it gets real wonky. I get the feeling the dhampir bite is more about the draining of whatever their hunger is. And the beast bite is more tearing chunks off. It feels different enough thematically to me
and mechanically absolutely I would not allow it. The healing and the potential boosts to an attack or skill check has way too many ways to be abused.
In terms of RAW these are two separate "weapons" to attack with, so you have to pick one and only one to use, and this is probably how I would rule it as a DM, as combining the effects is problematic since the Dhampir bite is balanced to be a Constitution based weapon with a weak damage dice.
If you want a thematic justification; the bite attack you gain from raging is a bestial form of bite attack, you're just digging in and trying to kill, there's no kind of precision to it anymore.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
As a Dm I would rule them as separate cases, and I've played it as a character that way. I have a Vengeance Paladin/Beast Barbarian Dhampir character who was attacked by a Vampire and survived but was turned into the Dhampir. I play it as when he is raging, he has lost control of his hunger and turns into the beast and the only thing that allows him to regain control is slaking his thirst. He is an obsessive hunter of undead pursuing the Vampire Lord who attacked him. The standard bite is more for the few comrades that willingly donate to help him maintain control.
My opinion only I've played it and had a Dhampir as a player try it as well.
I was thinking of building a Path of the Beast barbarian, flavored as the dangerous claws/fangs of a Dhampir, but was wondering if the two different bites built on each other. The Dhampir ability saying:
“Your fanged bite is a natural weapon, which counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. You add your Constitution modifier, instead of your Strength modifier, to the attack and damage rolls when you attack with this bite. It deals 1d4 piercing damage on a hit. While you are missing half or more of your hit points, you have advantage on attack rolls you make with this bite.”
The path ability saying:
”Your mouth transforms into a bestial muzzle or great mandibles (your choice). It deals 1d8 piercing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you damage a creature with this bite, you regain a number of hit points equal to your proficiency bonus, provided you have less than half your hit points when you hit.”
Could you rage to increase your bite from a d4 to a d8 and still use the constitution mod for attack and damage? If you can’t, can you still empower the rage bite?
”When you attack with this bite and hit a creature that isn’t a Construct or an Undead, you can empower yourself in one of the following ways of your choice:
You regain hit points equal to the piercing damage dealt by the bite.
You gain a bonus to the next ability check or attack roll you make; the bonus equals the piercing damage dealt by the bite.”
Personally, I would allow your Vampiric Bite to scale with your Form of the Beast Bite, because it means your internal anger makes your fangs sharper, and your entire body mightier. Did your previous race have an innate special movement speed. If so, you can have nearly every type of movement available (except for burrowing).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Brains over brawn? Mind over matter? These canny warriors rightly answer, "Why not both?" - Tasha
One of my players is playing a Dhampir Beast Barbarian. I completely agree that the Beast Form Bite and the Vampiric Bite are separate abilities, but would the player get advantage on her beast form bite attacks while at half her hit points due to her being a dhampir?
Raging makes it optional con/strength based, 1d8 damage+ con or strength, you get the piercing damage health regeneration limited amount of times. At half health you get the advantage from dhampir and raging bite health regeneration.
Dm decides if you can use both health boosts at the same time when applicable.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I was thinking of building a Path of the Beast barbarian, flavored as the dangerous claws/fangs of a Dhampir, but was wondering if the two different bites built on each other. The Dhampir ability saying:
“Your fanged bite is a natural weapon, which counts as a simple melee weapon with which you are proficient. You add your Constitution modifier, instead of your Strength modifier, to the attack and damage rolls when you attack with this bite. It deals 1d4 piercing damage on a hit. While you are missing half or more of your hit points, you have advantage on attack rolls you make with this bite.”
The path ability saying:
”Your mouth transforms into a bestial muzzle or great mandibles (your choice). It deals 1d8 piercing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you damage a creature with this bite, you regain a number of hit points equal to your proficiency bonus, provided you have less than half your hit points when you hit.”
Could you rage to increase your bite from a d4 to a d8 and still use the constitution mod for attack and damage? If you can’t, can you still empower the rage bite?
”When you attack with this bite and hit a creature that isn’t a Construct or an Undead, you can empower yourself in one of the following ways of your choice:
The Path of the Beast transforms your natual fanged bite mouth into a bestial muzzle or great mandibles that provide different statistics so it should take precedence. You can always ask your DM if you can use one or the other or combine them.
I would rule it as a no. Its 2 abilities from 2 different sources that use different modifiers even though they are both called bite. So I would rule you use either one or the other, like how I would rule unarmored defense from Barbarian and Monk
I would rule it as a YES. And here is why: You bite. You have vampiric fangs already always on. And on top of this, you grow bestial fangs, too. If you use the same teeth for this, it is impossible to only use one of them when you slam your teeth into your enemy`s flesh. The rules are meant otherwise, but it is ridiculous. You: "My beast-bite attack hit!" DM: "Role damage. But only for the beast bite, because, although your vampiric teeth are also stuck into the target`s flesh, they don`t cause damage." You: "How can that be?" It can´t.
In real life, when you punch someone with brass knuckles, you don`t have to pick either of the damages, your fist OR the knuckles. You do both. And yes, also the damage modifiers, Strength and Con do stack. Of course. And you get the healing from both. Of course. When you now say, that it is OP., take into account, that a paladin can do weapon damage plus 2D8 or 3D8 against an undead with a level 1 spell slot. And Lay on hands, and full weapon and armor proficiency and spell casting!
If they stack, you are looking at a character at level 3 with no multiclass shenanigans have a attack that does 1d8 + 3 (STR mod) + 1d4 +3 (CON mod) + 2 (Rage damage) that heals for 1d8 + 1d4 + 10. And if you stack the + hit its at +8 to hit (STR+CON+prof) otherwise +5 to hit with advantage from the Dhampir ability or Reckless Attack.
Oh and that healing is effectively DOUBLED because a Barb would usually only take half damage while Raging.
Do you begin to see how this character might easily outshine the other party members in combat?
Also comparisons to a Paladin's Divine Smite is moot because it uses a spell slot, a resource which Barbarians in general do not have nor need. The best comparison in the situation is to a Rogue's Sneak Attack which at level 3 would deal weapon damage +2d6 which the stacked Bite easily surpasses before even factoring in the healing.
Thematically it makes sense. Mechanically it gets real wonky. I get the feeling the dhampir bite is more about the draining of whatever their hunger is. And the beast bite is more tearing chunks off. It feels different enough thematically to me
and mechanically absolutely I would not allow it. The healing and the potential boosts to an attack or skill check has way too many ways to be abused.
In terms of RAW these are two separate "weapons" to attack with, so you have to pick one and only one to use, and this is probably how I would rule it as a DM, as combining the effects is problematic since the Dhampir bite is balanced to be a Constitution based weapon with a weak damage dice.
If you want a thematic justification; the bite attack you gain from raging is a bestial form of bite attack, you're just digging in and trying to kill, there's no kind of precision to it anymore.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
As a Dm I would rule them as separate cases, and I've played it as a character that way. I have a Vengeance Paladin/Beast Barbarian Dhampir character who was attacked by a Vampire and survived but was turned into the Dhampir. I play it as when he is raging, he has lost control of his hunger and turns into the beast and the only thing that allows him to regain control is slaking his thirst. He is an obsessive hunter of undead pursuing the Vampire Lord who attacked him. The standard bite is more for the few comrades that willingly donate to help him maintain control.
My opinion only I've played it and had a Dhampir as a player try it as well.
Personally, I would allow your Vampiric Bite to scale with your Form of the Beast Bite, because it means your internal anger makes your fangs sharper, and your entire body mightier. Did your previous race have an innate special movement speed. If so, you can have nearly every type of movement available (except for burrowing).
Brains over brawn? Mind over matter? These canny warriors rightly answer, "Why not both?" - Tasha
My Homebrews: Monsters, Magic Items, Spells, Races
Rhulg- Hobgoblin Gunsmith
But in D&D, you don't.
One of my players is playing a Dhampir Beast Barbarian. I completely agree that the Beast Form Bite and the Vampiric Bite are separate abilities, but would the player get advantage on her beast form bite attacks while at half her hit points due to her being a dhampir?
Non raging equals con based bite attack simple.
Raging makes it optional con/strength based, 1d8 damage+ con or strength, you get the piercing damage health regeneration limited amount of times. At half health you get the advantage from dhampir and raging bite health regeneration.
Dm decides if you can use both health boosts at the same time when applicable.