I am not a fan of multiclassing. Not because of optimizing and extra details to remember, but mostly because you don't get the capstone ability(ies).
That said, I think rage would fit very nice for the Monk, at least the way I would play. Rage damage can be applied to each of the Monk's attacks? Nice. Having resistance to BPS damage would be an extra layer of helpful defense at the lower levels any way against those kinds of attacks. Not so much against spells, albeit those defensive features come later.
Rage damage bonus is only applied to attacks that use Strength
Martial Arts only works when you're not wearing any armor or shield at all
The combination of those two things means you have to kinda have to invest in both Strength and Dexterity to stay effective. It's not a deal breaker, I don't think; you just have to think carefully about your ability scores.
You're also a bit limited in what weapons you can use, because Martial Arts doesn't work at all if you're holding a non-Monk weapon, and most of the weapons you'd probably want to use as a Barbarian aren't Monk weapons.
It really doesn't matter what the sheet allows you to do it only applies to attacks with strength. Sometimes the sheet lies.
"Rage Damage. When you make an attack using Strength—with either a weapon or an Unarmed Strike—and deal damage to the target, you gain a bonus to the damage that increases as you gain levels as a Barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian Features table.
That said a Rage monk is still viable. You will have some issues with AC (Str/Dex/Con/Wis), but the damage increase on all those Str based attacks is stil quite good. Grappling boosts are excellent. To make it more viable some of the legacy species options (Tortle AC 17, Lizardfolk AC 13+Dex) can help simplify the ability point spread. Monk also has its own damage mitigation tools in deflect attacks. But if you max str you are looking at an AC of 14 to start without help from something else. That doesn't feel too good. Point buy spread is probably 16(7+2), 14(7), 13(5), 9(1), 15(7+1), 8.
Your ASI's are tough to spend here. You have a lot of mouth's to feed. Choose two.
And, to be clear, Monks can still choose to use Strength for their unarmed strikes and Monk weapon attacks. Their Martial Arts feature gives them the option to use Dexterity for these things, but it's an option, not a requirement. D&D Beyond's online character sheet doesn't support this well because it's a very unusual choice for a player to make.
But since you don't get any of the benefits of the Martial Arts feature when you're wearing any armor, you still need to have a good Dexterity score to keep your AC up.
d8 punch damage off the bat, can wear medium armour and a shield, and all the benefits of going straight Barbarian. The ability to hit enemies that require a magic weapon to hit is solved by one of two magic items. One of which I think is common.
d8 punch damage off the bat, can wear heavy armour and a shield, and all the benefits of going straight Barbarian. The ability to hit enemies that require a magic weapon to hit is solved by one of two magic items. One of which I think is common.
Well this isn't a debate about "vs" or about going straight Barbarian, after a dip in a entirely different class I am talking about. I am only talking about whether it's worth it to take 1st level dip in Barbarian for a Monk, given that I am no fan of multiclassing anyway. I'd like to keep it on topic.
I am not sure a strength based monk is viable period. Since Barbarian requires strength to take advantage of its features and a min 13 to even start it doesn't work as a well as a one level dip of fighter or ranger.
I am not sure a strength based monk is viable period.
Yeah. Part of the problem is, as I mentioned above, the Monk's entire Martial Arts class feature (which includes the ability to Unarmed Strike as a bonus action, as well as the damage die progression and Dexterity option for Unarmed Strikes and Monk Weapons) doesn't work if you are wearing any armor at all.
If you're not wearing armor, you need Dexterity for defense, so you can't just abandon it entirely, and now you have to keep boosting Dexterity and Strength to stay effective instead of just Dexterity.
Or, you put on armor anyway and lose all the Martial Arts stuff, in which case why are you taking Monk levels at all?
I am not sure a strength based monk is viable period.
Yeah. Part of the problem is, as I mentioned above, the Monk's entire Martial Arts class feature (which includes the ability to Unarmed Strike as a bonus action, as well as the damage die progression and Dexterity option for Unarmed Strikes and Monk Weapons) doesn't work if you are wearing any armor at all.
If you're not wearing armor, you need Dexterity for defense, so you can't just abandon it entirely, and now you have to keep boosting Dexterity and Strength to stay effective instead of just Dexterity.
Or, you put on armor anyway and lose all the Martial Arts stuff, in which case why are you taking Monk levels at all?
Well, most of the Monk features still work when wearing Armor. Obviously the Level 4,8,12, 16 and 19 ASI/Epic Boon features all work. As for the others:
Works Fully when wearing Armor:
Level 3: Deflect Attacks (Does, admittedly lean heavily both into your Dex Mod and your Monk Level)
Level 4: Slow Fall
Level 5: Stunning Strike (Requires Unarmed Strike or Monk Weapon, pick something that works for your best attribute)
Level 6: Empowered Strikes (I gave you a love tap, but it's still Force Damage.)
Level 7: Evasion
Level 10: Self-Restoration
Level 13 :Deflect Energy
Level 14: Disciplined Survivor
Level 15: Perfect Focus
Level 18: Superior Defense
Level 20: Body and Mind
Works, but takes advantage of Martial Arts features, may not be fully operational without it:
Level 2: Monk's Focus (Flurry of Blows: Your Unarmed Strikes are going to suck unless you pushed STR, damage will suffer eventually even with Feats/Fighting Styles. Focus points, Patient Defense, and Step of the Wind are all fine.)
Level 2: Uncanny Metabolism (Uses the Martial Arts die to set the amount healed)
Level 10: Heightened Focus (Same FOB issues. Patient Defense upgrade uses Martial Arts Die which is a Martial Arts Feature. Step of the Wind upgrade is fine.)
Explicitly Prohibited from Working.:
Level 1: Martial Arts
Level 1: Unarmored Defense
Level 9: Acrobatic Movement
As far as Subclasses go, all the Warrior of Shadow features will work while wearing Armor, as long as you're proficient with it. The other three 2024 subclasses have features that rely on your Martial Arts Die, and/or lean into using Unarmed Strikes.
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As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
I am not sure a strength based monk is viable period. Since Barbarian requires strength to take advantage of its features and a min 13 to even start it doesn't work as a well as a one level dip of fighter or ranger.
I'm not building a strength based Monk so that scenario is irrelevant. Just deciding if I want to dip into a 1st level barbarian for the Rage for the extra damage and resistance to BPS. That's all. I think that this fits what I am looking for unless I decide to dip into any class.
I am not sure a strength based monk is viable period. Since Barbarian requires strength to take advantage of its features and a min 13 to even start it doesn't work as a well as a one level dip of fighter or ranger.
I'm not building a strength based Month so that scenario is irrelevant. Just deciding if I want to dip into a 1st level barbarian for the Rage for the extra damage and resistance to BPS. That's all. I think that this fits what I am looking for if I decides to dip into any class.
The resistance to B/P/S while raging would still work with a Dexterity-based Monk, so the the only drawback would be the 13 Strength requirement. If you can make this work with ability scores you are happy with, then go for it. It would give you a nice survivability boost.
Caveat: I will note that this idea would not work well with a Warrior of the Shadow Monk. The subclass relies heavily on the Darkness spell, and you can't cast or concentrate on spells while raging.
I am not sure a strength based monk is viable period. Since Barbarian requires strength to take advantage of its features and a min 13 to even start it doesn't work as a well as a one level dip of fighter or ranger.
I'm not building a strength based Month so that scenario is irrelevant. Just deciding if I want to dip into a 1st level barbarian for the Rage for the extra damage and resistance to BPS. That's all. I think that this fits what I am looking for if I decides to dip into any class.
The resistance to B/P/S while raging would still work with a Dexterity-based Monk, so the the only drawback would be the 13 Strength requirement. If you can make this work with ability scores you are happy with, then go for it. It would give you a nice survivability boost.
Caveat: I will note that this idea would not work well with a Warrior of the Shadow Monk. The subclass relies heavily on the Darkness spell, and you can't cast or concentrate on spells while raging.
I am not sure a strength based monk is viable period. Since Barbarian requires strength to take advantage of its features and a min 13 to even start it doesn't work as a well as a one level dip of fighter or ranger.
I'm not building a strength based Month so that scenario is irrelevant. Just deciding if I want to dip into a 1st level barbarian for the Rage for the extra damage and resistance to BPS. That's all. I think that this fits what I am looking for if I decides to dip into any class.
The resistance to B/P/S while raging would still work with a Dexterity-based Monk, so the the only drawback would be the 13 Strength requirement. If you can make this work with ability scores you are happy with, then go for it. It would give you a nice survivability boost.
Caveat: I will note that this idea would not work well with a Warrior of the Shadow Monk. The subclass relies heavily on the Darkness spell, and you can't cast or concentrate on spells while raging.
I already have the Str requirement, which is why I am considering the dip. Why would make this thread if I didn't meet that requirement? I don't need strength for my attacks or damage, just Dexterity. And yes it will work well with Warrior of Shadow, as I obviously wouldn't be raging when trying to cast Darkness or vice a versa. I appreciate your input, but the assumption should be that I know what I am doing, as opposed to fumbling around with no direction.
...but the assumption should be that I know what I am doing, as opposed to I fumbling around with no direction.
Congratulations to being the exception to the rule.
For those of us who are fumbling around without a lot of direction, how/when do you actually rage to avoid the strength issue mentioned above. I do understand the mitigation needed to cast spells 1st then rage, but concentration spells seem counter intuitive. If you are building a DEX based Monk, do/how you get to use rage?
...but the assumption should be that I know what I am doing, as opposed to I fumbling around with no direction.
Congratulations to being the exception to the rule.
For those of us who are fumbling around without a lot of direction, how/when do you actually rage to avoid the strength issue mentioned above. I do understand the mitigation needed to cast spells 1st then rage, but concentration spells seem counter intuitive. If you are building a DEX based Monk, do/how you get to use rage?
Thank you, but that's not what the thread was created for.
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I am not a fan of multiclassing. Not because of optimizing and extra details to remember, but mostly because you don't get the capstone ability(ies).
That said, I think rage would fit very nice for the Monk, at least the way I would play. Rage damage can be applied to each of the Monk's attacks? Nice. Having resistance to BPS damage would be an extra layer of helpful defense at the lower levels any way against those kinds of attacks. Not so much against spells, albeit those defensive features come later.
🤔
Two things to keep in mind with this combination:
The combination of those two things means you have to kinda have to invest in both Strength and Dexterity to stay effective. It's not a deal breaker, I don't think; you just have to think carefully about your ability scores.
You're also a bit limited in what weapons you can use, because Martial Arts doesn't work at all if you're holding a non-Monk weapon, and most of the weapons you'd probably want to use as a Barbarian aren't Monk weapons.
pronouns: he/she/they
Nope. Just checked and it works jointly with Monk's Dex on damage rolls on the character sheet. Just like Tavern Brawler does.
That may be true, but the rules do very clearly say that it only applies to attacks that use Strength.
pronouns: he/she/they
It really doesn't matter what the sheet allows you to do it only applies to attacks with strength. Sometimes the sheet lies.
"Rage Damage. When you make an attack using Strength—with either a weapon or an Unarmed Strike—and deal damage to the target, you gain a bonus to the damage that increases as you gain levels as a Barbarian, as shown in the Rage Damage column of the Barbarian Features table.
That said a Rage monk is still viable. You will have some issues with AC (Str/Dex/Con/Wis), but the damage increase on all those Str based attacks is stil quite good. Grappling boosts are excellent. To make it more viable some of the legacy species options (Tortle AC 17, Lizardfolk AC 13+Dex) can help simplify the ability point spread. Monk also has its own damage mitigation tools in deflect attacks. But if you max str you are looking at an AC of 14 to start without help from something else. That doesn't feel too good. Point buy spread is probably 16(7+2), 14(7), 13(5), 9(1), 15(7+1), 8.
Your ASI's are tough to spend here. You have a lot of mouth's to feed. Choose two.
And, to be clear, Monks can still choose to use Strength for their unarmed strikes and Monk weapon attacks. Their Martial Arts feature gives them the option to use Dexterity for these things, but it's an option, not a requirement. D&D Beyond's online character sheet doesn't support this well because it's a very unusual choice for a player to make.
But since you don't get any of the benefits of the Martial Arts feature when you're wearing any armor, you still need to have a good Dexterity score to keep your AC up.
pronouns: he/she/they
A one level Fighter dip for Unarmed Fighting Style and then full Barbarian is a better Monk than a Monk is.
In what way(s)?
d8 punch damage off the bat, can wear medium armour and a shield, and all the benefits of going straight Barbarian. The ability to hit enemies that require a magic weapon to hit is solved by one of two magic items. One of which I think is common.
Well this isn't a debate about "vs" or about going straight Barbarian, after a dip in a entirely different class I am talking about. I am only talking about whether it's worth it to take 1st level dip in Barbarian for a Monk, given that I am no fan of multiclassing anyway. I'd like to keep it on topic.
1st level Fighter dip, 1st level Barbarian dip, I see no difference. Either way you're taking one level of another class.
If you're building a strength Monk then going Barbarian might be worth it for Rage. If you're going traditional dexterity Monk then probably not.
I am not sure a strength based monk is viable period. Since Barbarian requires strength to take advantage of its features and a min 13 to even start it doesn't work as a well as a one level dip of fighter or ranger.
Yeah. Part of the problem is, as I mentioned above, the Monk's entire Martial Arts class feature (which includes the ability to Unarmed Strike as a bonus action, as well as the damage die progression and Dexterity option for Unarmed Strikes and Monk Weapons) doesn't work if you are wearing any armor at all.
If you're not wearing armor, you need Dexterity for defense, so you can't just abandon it entirely, and now you have to keep boosting Dexterity and Strength to stay effective instead of just Dexterity.
Or, you put on armor anyway and lose all the Martial Arts stuff, in which case why are you taking Monk levels at all?
pronouns: he/she/they
ie: You'd have to roll those stats :P
Well, most of the Monk features still work when wearing Armor. Obviously the Level 4,8,12, 16 and 19 ASI/Epic Boon features all work. As for the others:
Works Fully when wearing Armor:
Works, but takes advantage of Martial Arts features, may not be fully operational without it:
Explicitly Prohibited from Working.:
As far as Subclasses go, all the Warrior of Shadow features will work while wearing Armor, as long as you're proficient with it. The other three 2024 subclasses have features that rely on your Martial Arts Die, and/or lean into using Unarmed Strikes.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
I'm not building a strength based Monk so that scenario is irrelevant. Just deciding if I want to dip into a 1st level barbarian for the Rage for the extra damage and resistance to BPS. That's all. I think that this fits what I am looking for unless I decide to dip into any class.
The resistance to B/P/S while raging would still work with a Dexterity-based Monk, so the the only drawback would be the 13 Strength requirement. If you can make this work with ability scores you are happy with, then go for it. It would give you a nice survivability boost.
Caveat: I will note that this idea would not work well with a Warrior of the Shadow Monk. The subclass relies heavily on the Darkness spell, and you can't cast or concentrate on spells while raging.
I already have the Str requirement, which is why I am considering the dip. Why would make this thread if I didn't meet that requirement? I don't need strength for my attacks or damage, just Dexterity. And yes it will work well with Warrior of Shadow, as I obviously wouldn't be raging when trying to cast Darkness or vice a versa. I appreciate your input, but the assumption should be that I know what I am doing, as opposed to fumbling around with no direction.
Thank you, but that's not what the thread was created for.