I have a player, who I feel may be stretching the rules to game a mechanic - which in his defense, is very lax on the wording.
Artisan's Blessing (for reference)
You conduct an hour-long ritual that crafts a nonmagical item that must include some metal: a simple or martial weapon, a suit of armor, ten pieces of ammunition, a set of tools, or another metal object (see chapter 5, “Equipment,” in the Player’s Handbook for examples of these items). The creation is completed at the end of the hour, coalescing in an unoccupied space of your choice on a surface within 5 feet of you.
The thing you create can be something that is worth no more than 100 gp. As part of this ritual, you must lay out metal, which can include coins, with a value equal to the creation. The metal irretrievably coalesces and transforms into the creation at the ritual’s end, magically forming even nonmetal parts of the creation.
The ritual can create a duplicate of a nonmagical item that contains metal, such as a key, if you possess the original during the ritual.
We have a Forge Cleric in Curse of Strahd, a campaign known for being extremely difficult to find spell components. Can they use 100g (if found) to make a 99g diamond, on a 1g metal band? This seems like an extreme stretch, and a way to get components into a campaign where this would not be available otherwise. It is to the point they tried to make a dress (a quest item) of fabric, with metal rings on one small part of the dress - and said Artisan's Blessing can do it.
I see potential huge benefits for creating things like, a silvered weapon - because its mainly metal, and non-magical. But it feels like this is power-gaming, and attempting to find loopholes, which is not something I want to condone because it slows things down and causes the group to groan.
No, it could not make the described ring. A 99 gp diamond mounted on a 1 gp ring is worth more than 100 gp, because of the skill required to make it. By definition, the max value of anything the ability outputs is 100 gp. Otherwise, yes, the idea is sound - the ability can make rings with gemstones. That's way more metallic than a spear, which is mostly wood.
RAW the dress is legal, but I would DM fiat overrule the RAW by explaining that the cleric's god makes these items for the cleric, that being how the ability works, and while the deity knows how to use smith's tools, tinker's tools, and is even known to use woodcarver's tools once in a while, he just never learned weaver's tools. He knows how to make a chain dress, but that would be way over the 100gp limit.
CoS is one of the best campaigns for a forge cleric to shine in, because their portable shop ability finally becomes useful instead of the normal nearly completely useless state it's in. You should let your PC have fun with it - just don't let him cheese his way out of quests by asking a god of metalworking to weave a cloth dress.
This is a very good explanation, thanks Quindraco.
I didn’t think to factor in craftsmanship as part of the equation. Looking at it from the God’s perspective, also helps on a final decision.
I never like to stifle player creativity, or take things away, or favor away from fun. It just feels weird having them create something intended to be metal - but the final product could potentially be 98% non-metal. Felt like a stretch.
RAW the game does not care about craftsmanship. it only cares about the end result which actually contains any changes to cost for craftsmanship automatically. At most craftsman ship might be an increased DC to some things. But Crafting is overly streamlined and does not cover a lot of things. Even with the extended details added to it in Xanathar's. It extremely bare bones.
So by technicality they could make such a ring if they are willing to use 100 gold to do it. Keep in mind that they need materials of value of what they want to make.
That being said. a 99 gold Diamond isn't going to help them much with spell components. It's not dust. It's not 100gp. So it doesn't actually fit most requirements for casting spells. The only spell I can think of that uses a Diamond they could create this way is a single wizard spell. But it only needs a 50 gold piece Diamond and it only needs one made. Diamond Dust they can't just make through any spells.
So basically. You can let them make it because other than to wear. They have no use for it unless CoS adds in something that makes it useful that I'm not aware of.
RAW the game does not care about craftsmanship. it only cares about the end result which actually contains any changes to cost for craftsmanship automatically. At most craftsman ship might be an increased DC to some things. But Crafting is overly streamlined and does not cover a lot of things. Even with the extended details added to it in Xanathar's. It extremely bare bones.
So by technicality they could make such a ring if they are willing to use 100 gold to do it. Keep in mind that they need materials of value of what they want to make.
That being said. a 99 gold Diamond isn't going to help them much with spell components. It's not dust. It's not 100gp. So it doesn't actually fit most requirements for casting spells. The only spell I can think of that uses a Diamond they could create this way is a single wizard spell. But it only needs a 50 gold piece Diamond and it only needs one made. Diamond Dust they can't just make through any spells.
So basically. You can let them make it because other than to wear. They have no use for it unless CoS adds in something that makes it useful that I'm not aware of.
It's pretty easy to turn a diamond into diamond dust. All you need is a hammer. Also the player could conceivably do this multiple times to have multiple 99 gp diamonds and then fabricate a bigger better diamond.
I have a player, who I feel may be stretching the rules to game a mechanic - which in his defense, is very lax on the wording.
Artisan's Blessing (for reference)
You conduct an hour-long ritual that crafts a nonmagical item that must include some metal: a simple or martial weapon, a suit of armor, ten pieces of ammunition, a set of tools, or another metal object (see chapter 5, “Equipment,” in the Player’s Handbook for examples of these items). The creation is completed at the end of the hour, coalescing in an unoccupied space of your choice on a surface within 5 feet of you.
The thing you create can be something that is worth no more than 100 gp. As part of this ritual, you must lay out metal, which can include coins, with a value equal to the creation. The metal irretrievably coalesces and transforms into the creation at the ritual’s end, magically forming even nonmetal parts of the creation.
The ritual can create a duplicate of a nonmagical item that contains metal, such as a key, if you possess the original during the ritual.
We have a Forge Cleric in Curse of Strahd, a campaign known for being extremely difficult to find spell components. Can they use 100g (if found) to make a 99g diamond, on a 1g metal band? This seems like an extreme stretch, and a way to get components into a campaign where this would not be available otherwise. It is to the point they tried to make a dress (a quest item) of fabric, with metal rings on one small part of the dress - and said Artisan's Blessing can do it.
I see potential huge benefits for creating things like, a silvered weapon - because its mainly metal, and non-magical. But it feels like this is power-gaming, and attempting to find loopholes, which is not something I want to condone because it slows things down and causes the group to groan.
Is this going to boil down to DM discretion?
I'm unaware of the in-game context of this dress, but the obvious solution to me if to say that the dress is more than 100 gp. I probably wouldn't have thought of that on the fly though if my players asked me.
Hey everyone,
I have a player, who I feel may be stretching the rules to game a mechanic - which in his defense, is very lax on the wording.
Artisan's Blessing (for reference)
You conduct an hour-long ritual that crafts a nonmagical item that must include some metal: a simple or martial weapon, a suit of armor, ten pieces of ammunition, a set of tools, or another metal object (see chapter 5, “Equipment,” in the Player’s Handbook for examples of these items). The creation is completed at the end of the hour, coalescing in an unoccupied space of your choice on a surface within 5 feet of you.
The thing you create can be something that is worth no more than 100 gp. As part of this ritual, you must lay out metal, which can include coins, with a value equal to the creation. The metal irretrievably coalesces and transforms into the creation at the ritual’s end, magically forming even nonmetal parts of the creation.
The ritual can create a duplicate of a nonmagical item that contains metal, such as a key, if you possess the original during the ritual.
We have a Forge Cleric in Curse of Strahd, a campaign known for being extremely difficult to find spell components. Can they use 100g (if found) to make a 99g diamond, on a 1g metal band? This seems like an extreme stretch, and a way to get components into a campaign where this would not be available otherwise. It is to the point they tried to make a dress (a quest item) of fabric, with metal rings on one small part of the dress - and said Artisan's Blessing can do it.
I see potential huge benefits for creating things like, a silvered weapon - because its mainly metal, and non-magical. But it feels like this is power-gaming, and attempting to find loopholes, which is not something I want to condone because it slows things down and causes the group to groan.
Is this going to boil down to DM discretion?
No, it could not make the described ring. A 99 gp diamond mounted on a 1 gp ring is worth more than 100 gp, because of the skill required to make it. By definition, the max value of anything the ability outputs is 100 gp. Otherwise, yes, the idea is sound - the ability can make rings with gemstones. That's way more metallic than a spear, which is mostly wood.
RAW the dress is legal, but I would DM fiat overrule the RAW by explaining that the cleric's god makes these items for the cleric, that being how the ability works, and while the deity knows how to use smith's tools, tinker's tools, and is even known to use woodcarver's tools once in a while, he just never learned weaver's tools. He knows how to make a chain dress, but that would be way over the 100gp limit.
CoS is one of the best campaigns for a forge cleric to shine in, because their portable shop ability finally becomes useful instead of the normal nearly completely useless state it's in. You should let your PC have fun with it - just don't let him cheese his way out of quests by asking a god of metalworking to weave a cloth dress.
This is a very good explanation, thanks Quindraco.
I didn’t think to factor in craftsmanship as part of the equation. Looking at it from the God’s perspective, also helps on a final decision.
I never like to stifle player creativity, or take things away, or favor away from fun. It just feels weird having them create something intended to be metal - but the final product could potentially be 98% non-metal. Felt like a stretch.
RAW the game does not care about craftsmanship. it only cares about the end result which actually contains any changes to cost for craftsmanship automatically. At most craftsman ship might be an increased DC to some things. But Crafting is overly streamlined and does not cover a lot of things. Even with the extended details added to it in Xanathar's. It extremely bare bones.
So by technicality they could make such a ring if they are willing to use 100 gold to do it. Keep in mind that they need materials of value of what they want to make.
That being said. a 99 gold Diamond isn't going to help them much with spell components. It's not dust. It's not 100gp. So it doesn't actually fit most requirements for casting spells. The only spell I can think of that uses a Diamond they could create this way is a single wizard spell. But it only needs a 50 gold piece Diamond and it only needs one made. Diamond Dust they can't just make through any spells.
So basically. You can let them make it because other than to wear. They have no use for it unless CoS adds in something that makes it useful that I'm not aware of.
It's pretty easy to turn a diamond into diamond dust. All you need is a hammer. Also the player could conceivably do this multiple times to have multiple 99 gp diamonds and then fabricate a bigger better diamond.
I'm unaware of the in-game context of this dress, but the obvious solution to me if to say that the dress is more than 100 gp. I probably wouldn't have thought of that on the fly though if my players asked me.