While I know all classes and subclasses are good, it seems as though the war cleric is a little lacking compared to other domains. I'm mainly talking about there channel divinity, everything else they get seems fine. Being able to attack up to 5 additional times I think is pretty good at low levels but it seems slightly redundant at higher levels. I do appreciate it though when multiclassing (I'm making a tortle spore druid planning to use shillelagh and a single level in a war cleric is pretty helpful). Maybe I'm not seeing something about the war domain that at least puts it on par with other domains? I had really hoped to make some bloodthirsty melee cleric with it but it seems like other domains can do that better. Maybe some multiclass or specific build makes it really shine? I can't really see a pure war cleric being that good compared to a pure tempest or light cleric
I agree it's not really desirable. Since Tasha's Cauldron came out there's a new standard for what's "good". Someone made deliberate choices in making the new cleric subclasses to make players feel good and now... well War Domain feels like a skin slapped on cleric to fit the lore of Forgotten Realms.
It's pros are Divine Favor, Crusader's Mantle, Hold Monster as well as being the best cleric class to take Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter as a feat. I also think that the overall Cleric class is robust enough to compensate for a less optimal subclass (so War Clerics can't inherently be that bad) but yeah there's not too much of a reason to take War over Twilight or Tempest.
Unless it's for Gruumsh... PUNY hooman needs WiSdoM for woshippin GOD? NO. STRENGTH IS MOST IMPORTANT! SAVE OR SUCK SPELLS? SUCK ON AXE!
War cleric is not bad per-say, but when comparing with newer domains like Peace or Twilight, or higher damage dealing like Light or Tempest, then yes, it would look underwhelming.
Personally, it is probably a good multiclass option rather than to go down entirely. Hear me out, this is an opinion. Based on the Channel Divinity, just adding +10 to attack rolls is pretty good, but if it is only this, then it might be lacking in comparison to other domains. There are also the other abilities, like War Priest, but this could have been better, just give us extra attack feature. Or the Avatar of Battle, which is pretty good, but to me feels like you got it too late since not that many campaigns last to 17th level.
Overall, it is not bad, but not really that great. I suppose the roleplay is pretty good, but mechanically, it feels lacking. So my opinion is it is good (to even great) for multiclass, but for full cleric, I might reconsider.
Again, this is just my OPINION based from what little experience I have had, do NOT take this too seriously.
In my opinion if you want to build a war cleric, build a forge cleric. War domain isn't as bad as knowledge or arcana, but it's a bit underpowered.
The War Priest feature is fine, but it could be better. Any attempt at a martial caster needs the extra attack feature to make their weapons worth using. This is a pale imitation of that feature. Level 8 is another missed opportunity to have extra attack as well. Yes the capstone ability is good, but the forge cleric's is better.
To quote someone I respect, the only feature I can recommend from the War domain is its heavy armor proficiency. Trying to focus on weapons means more restrictive attribute requirements, worse spell casting, and trying to compensate for the lack of extra attack.
I like War Cleric personally; I'm a big fan of Guided Strike specifically because the more powerful I make an attack spell, the more likely I usually am to miss, so being able to just "nope" a whiffed spell roll into a success rather than just watching in horror as a spell slot fizzes away is something I love.
I also quite like its spell selection despite it being so concentration heavy (and not having many outside of the Cleric list); if I were choosing which ones to pick from out of my normal spell choices I wouldn't naturally take so many concentration spells because of the need to choose between them, but actually the choice is interesting, and having them "for free" I've found I actually do switch which ones I use a lot more than I'd expected to. I know most players swear by Bless, and while numerically it's rarely a bad choice to cast, in practice I hate, hate, hate losing my first turn in a combat just to cast it, so I only do-so when I can cast it just before combat begins (i.e- the party are the ones initiating it). Shield of Faith is much better to just quickly throw up, or Divine Favor if I feel I need to overwhelm rather than endure (and it stacks well with War Priest).
Compared to Forge Cleric it's tough to say that one is obviously better; they both have the same bonus proficiencies, the free +1 armour or weapon feature is nice, but I do really like War priest (especially at lower levels, and even after getting Spiritual Weapon). Forge Cleric's unique Channel Divinity is also a lot more situational, whereas Guided Strike is always useful in combat.
My main gripe with War Cleric is War God's Blessing; being able to bestow Guided Strike onto allies is fantastic, but it's really just an upgrade for something you can already do. Again, not bad, but compared to the Forge Cleric's fully passive +1 heavy armour AC and fire resistance it's definitely the weak link. And Forge Cleric does have basically the same 17th level ability but a bit better (adds fire immunity), but a lot of characters won't get that far.
I think it's a perfectly solid domain, and I don't think it's a clear "take Forge instead" as they have a lot of big differences. War Cleric is also fantastic as a one or two level dip for multiclassing.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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You can use your first attack to shove (attack action) the creature and then give them a good smite with your hammer as a bonus action!
But to get the melee "battlecleric" feel I would consider multiclassing to Paladin for the smites! Either 2 levels if you are using booming blade, or maybe 5/15 to get extra attack and a 9th lvl spell slot.
(Warcleric 17 / 1 Divine Sorcerer / 2 Paladin is my current planned build)
War clerics are not bad. They're not spectacular, but the cleric chassis itself is so good, you would have to work at being bad. I like them more as a dip than as a straight class, but I would never turn my nose up at playing one, and for the right game I would choose it.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
It is definitely not one of the best Cleric Subclasses out there, but if your party is having trouble surviving/winning encounters because you picked a war cleric then you maybe want to change to a table that is a little less DM vs. PCs as no cleric subclass is so bad that they should become a detriment to a party assuming reasonable encounters. If you like the flavor of a war cleric, then go for it in my opinion. It isn't bad by any means, but yeah, it is definitely one of the weaker clerics.
I like War Cleric personally; I'm a big fan of Guided Strike specifically because the more powerful I make an attack spell, the more likely I usually am to miss, so being able to just "nope" a whiffed spell roll into a success rather than just watching in horror as a spell slot fizzes away is something I love.
I also quite like its spell selection despite it being so concentration heavy (and not having many outside of the Cleric list); if I were choosing which ones to pick from out of my normal spell choices I wouldn't naturally take so many concentration spells because of the need to choose between them, but actually the choice is interesting, and having them "for free" I've found I actually do switch which ones I use a lot more than I'd expected to. I know most players swear by Bless, and while numerically it's rarely a bad choice to cast, in practice I hate, hate, hate losing my first turn in a combat just to cast it, so I only do-so when I can cast it just before combat begins (i.e- the party are the ones initiating it). Shield of Faith is much better to just quickly throw up, or Divine Favor if I feel I need to overwhelm rather than endure (and it stacks well with War Priest).
Compared to Forge Cleric it's tough to say that one is obviously better; they both have the same bonus proficiencies, the free +1 armour or weapon feature is nice, but I do really like War priest (especially at lower levels, and even after getting Spiritual Weapon). Forge Cleric's unique Channel Divinity is also a lot more situational, whereas Guided Strike is always useful in combat.
My main gripe with War Cleric is War God's Blessing; being able to bestow Guided Strike onto allies is fantastic, but it's really just an upgrade for something you can already do. Again, not bad, but compared to the Forge Cleric's fully passive +1 heavy armour AC and fire resistance it's definitely the weak link. And Forge Cleric does have basically the same 17th level ability but a bit better (adds fire immunity), but a lot of characters won't get that far.
I think it's a perfectly solid domain, and I don't think it's a clear "take Forge instead" as they have a lot of big differences. War Cleric is also fantastic as a one or two level dip for multiclassing.
+1 to this.
Inflict Wounds on a Paralyzed Enemy NEEDs to hit? I got you with the +10. Granted you roll two 1's you are sunk but the dice gods want you to fail at that point and you honestly need to be less of a heretic.
Also yeah they do REALLY well with MC particularly on Great Weapon fighters.
Comparing them to Peace and (especially) Twilight is not really fair as those two classes are generally agreed to be overpowered, and some say game-ruiningly overpowered.
Compared to the rest of the Cleric domains it's probably to be considered middle of the road. It's not Tempest Domain, but it's not Knowledge Domain either.
Comparing them to Peace and (especially) Twilight is not really fair as those two classes are generally agreed to be overpowered, and some say game-ruiningly overpowered.
Compared to the rest of the Cleric domains it's probably to be considered middle of the road. It's not Tempest Domain, but it's not Knowledge Domain either.
Knowledge works well in the right campaign. Especially if you do not have a wizard.
I do wish War Cleric had gotten Extra Attack at level 6.
Seems odd they are the only gish caster that does not get it.
Granted Sorcerer doesn't get a Gish subclass either but they almost did (Stone Sorcerer FTW) which had a wonky way of getting an extra attack per round but could swing it (PUN!) fairly often.
Overall it would be about inline with other caster gishes...especially now with the crazy Bladesinger buffs.
I mean some domain has to be the worst right? But I really do think it is incorrect to call them bad because they're not as good as the others. They're still clerics.
In comparison to other domains, though, they get a combination of meh spells (except for a few that were going to prepare anyway) and meh domain features that don't really accentuate what a cleric is good at or go far enough into making the cleric good at something else.
Sure a +10 to hit is ok, but that is once per Long (or eventually short) rest. Sure a bonus action attack is OK, but you can only use it a few times and your bonus action is already called for by one of the best cleric spells. Lucky you got that spell on your auto-prepared list, but it isn't like there are better war themed spells to replace it with on the rest of the cleric list. I guess you get a bit more versatility. But you *can* use that bonus action on the round that you cast your 1-action concentration spell (IF spiritual weapon isn't already up). So what? One use per combat? Good! The fact that you get so few uses won't hinder you too much. Maybe more if your spiritual weapon isn't close to another target. Maybe even more when you lose concentration and have to spend more slots because you took hits while standing somewhere where you can make melee attacks instead of protecting your concentration.
I mean some domain has to be the worst right? But I really do think it is incorrect to call them bad because they're not as good as the others. They're still clerics.
In comparison to other domains, though, they get a combination of meh spells (except for a few that were going to prepare anyway) and meh domain features that don't really accentuate what a cleric is good at or go far enough into making the cleric good at something else.
Sure a +10 to hit is ok, but that is once per Long (or eventually short) rest. Sure a bonus action attack is OK, but you can only use it a few times and your bonus action is already called for by one of the best cleric spells. Lucky you got that spell on your auto-prepared list, but it isn't like there are better war themed spells to replace it with on the rest of the cleric list. I guess you get a bit more versatility. But you *can* use that bonus action on the round that you cast your 1-action concentration spell (IF spiritual weapon isn't already up). So what? One use per combat? Good! The fact that you get so few uses won't hinder you too much. Maybe more if your spiritual weapon isn't close to another target. Maybe even more when you lose concentration and have to spend more slots because you took hits while standing somewhere where you can make melee attacks instead of protecting your concentration.
Its twice per short rest at level 6....so in an "average" game (assuming 2 short rests) they are getting it 6 times a day.
Its odd because the subclass actually MC really well with certain builds (GWM Fighter for example) but by itself its just ok.
Being a full caster who wants to use melee attacks is always a little subpar compared to actually using one's powerful spells. But it means a decent option for using attacks to make spell slots go further. So its not bad.
Definitely more fun as a multiclass dip though tbh
I also wish they would have given the war domain the extra attack at 6th level.
Extra attack at 6th is probably the most elegant fix to help them get more out of being a martial oriented cleric, it would also stack nicely with Divine Favor, Crusader's Mantle, and Holy Weapon for some properly good damage scaling over time.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Agreed. Being a "War" Cleric you'd expect them to be a bit more militant than their Cleric contemporaries. It's like Bladesingers getting extra attack or Valor/Sword bards getting extra attack. It would just make the class effective at the thing they're actually supposed to be doing.
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While I know all classes and subclasses are good, it seems as though the war cleric is a little lacking compared to other domains. I'm mainly talking about there channel divinity, everything else they get seems fine. Being able to attack up to 5 additional times I think is pretty good at low levels but it seems slightly redundant at higher levels. I do appreciate it though when multiclassing (I'm making a tortle spore druid planning to use shillelagh and a single level in a war cleric is pretty helpful). Maybe I'm not seeing something about the war domain that at least puts it on par with other domains? I had really hoped to make some bloodthirsty melee cleric with it but it seems like other domains can do that better. Maybe some multiclass or specific build makes it really shine? I can't really see a pure war cleric being that good compared to a pure tempest or light cleric
I agree it's not really desirable. Since Tasha's Cauldron came out there's a new standard for what's "good". Someone made deliberate choices in making the new cleric subclasses to make players feel good and now... well War Domain feels like a skin slapped on cleric to fit the lore of Forgotten Realms.
It's pros are Divine Favor, Crusader's Mantle, Hold Monster as well as being the best cleric class to take Great Weapon Master or Sharpshooter as a feat. I also think that the overall Cleric class is robust enough to compensate for a less optimal subclass (so War Clerics can't inherently be that bad) but yeah there's not too much of a reason to take War over Twilight or Tempest.
Unless it's for Gruumsh... PUNY hooman needs WiSdoM for woshippin GOD? NO. STRENGTH IS MOST IMPORTANT! SAVE OR SUCK SPELLS? SUCK ON AXE!
War cleric is not bad per-say, but when comparing with newer domains like Peace or Twilight, or higher damage dealing like Light or Tempest, then yes, it would look underwhelming.
Personally, it is probably a good multiclass option rather than to go down entirely. Hear me out, this is an opinion. Based on the Channel Divinity, just adding +10 to attack rolls is pretty good, but if it is only this, then it might be lacking in comparison to other domains. There are also the other abilities, like War Priest, but this could have been better, just give us extra attack feature. Or the Avatar of Battle, which is pretty good, but to me feels like you got it too late since not that many campaigns last to 17th level.
Overall, it is not bad, but not really that great. I suppose the roleplay is pretty good, but mechanically, it feels lacking. So my opinion is it is good (to even great) for multiclass, but for full cleric, I might reconsider.
Again, this is just my OPINION based from what little experience I have had, do NOT take this too seriously.
In my opinion if you want to build a war cleric, build a forge cleric. War domain isn't as bad as knowledge or arcana, but it's a bit underpowered.
The War Priest feature is fine, but it could be better. Any attempt at a martial caster needs the extra attack feature to make their weapons worth using. This is a pale imitation of that feature. Level 8 is another missed opportunity to have extra attack as well. Yes the capstone ability is good, but the forge cleric's is better.
To quote someone I respect, the only feature I can recommend from the War domain is its heavy armor proficiency. Trying to focus on weapons means more restrictive attribute requirements, worse spell casting, and trying to compensate for the lack of extra attack.
J
I like War Cleric personally; I'm a big fan of Guided Strike specifically because the more powerful I make an attack spell, the more likely I usually am to miss, so being able to just "nope" a whiffed spell roll into a success rather than just watching in horror as a spell slot fizzes away is something I love.
I also quite like its spell selection despite it being so concentration heavy (and not having many outside of the Cleric list); if I were choosing which ones to pick from out of my normal spell choices I wouldn't naturally take so many concentration spells because of the need to choose between them, but actually the choice is interesting, and having them "for free" I've found I actually do switch which ones I use a lot more than I'd expected to. I know most players swear by Bless, and while numerically it's rarely a bad choice to cast, in practice I hate, hate, hate losing my first turn in a combat just to cast it, so I only do-so when I can cast it just before combat begins (i.e- the party are the ones initiating it). Shield of Faith is much better to just quickly throw up, or Divine Favor if I feel I need to overwhelm rather than endure (and it stacks well with War Priest).
Compared to Forge Cleric it's tough to say that one is obviously better; they both have the same bonus proficiencies, the free +1 armour or weapon feature is nice, but I do really like War priest (especially at lower levels, and even after getting Spiritual Weapon). Forge Cleric's unique Channel Divinity is also a lot more situational, whereas Guided Strike is always useful in combat.
My main gripe with War Cleric is War God's Blessing; being able to bestow Guided Strike onto allies is fantastic, but it's really just an upgrade for something you can already do. Again, not bad, but compared to the Forge Cleric's fully passive +1 heavy armour AC and fire resistance it's definitely the weak link. And Forge Cleric does have basically the same 17th level ability but a bit better (adds fire immunity), but a lot of characters won't get that far.
I think it's a perfectly solid domain, and I don't think it's a clear "take Forge instead" as they have a lot of big differences. War Cleric is also fantastic as a one or two level dip for multiclassing.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
War priest can be quite powerful.
You can use your first attack to shove (attack action) the creature and then give them a good smite with your hammer as a bonus action!
But to get the melee "battlecleric" feel I would consider multiclassing to Paladin for the smites! Either 2 levels if you are using booming blade, or maybe 5/15 to get extra attack and a 9th lvl spell slot.
(Warcleric 17 / 1 Divine Sorcerer / 2 Paladin is my current planned build)
War clerics are not bad. They're not spectacular, but the cleric chassis itself is so good, you would have to work at being bad. I like them more as a dip than as a straight class, but I would never turn my nose up at playing one, and for the right game I would choose it.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It is definitely not one of the best Cleric Subclasses out there, but if your party is having trouble surviving/winning encounters because you picked a war cleric then you maybe want to change to a table that is a little less DM vs. PCs as no cleric subclass is so bad that they should become a detriment to a party assuming reasonable encounters. If you like the flavor of a war cleric, then go for it in my opinion. It isn't bad by any means, but yeah, it is definitely one of the weaker clerics.
They are better in a featless campaign.
+1 to this.
Inflict Wounds on a Paralyzed Enemy NEEDs to hit? I got you with the +10. Granted you roll two 1's you are sunk but the dice gods want you to fail at that point and you honestly need to be less of a heretic.
Also yeah they do REALLY well with MC particularly on Great Weapon fighters.
Are War Clerics bad?
Well they're Clerics, so no.
Comparing them to Peace and (especially) Twilight is not really fair as those two classes are generally agreed to be overpowered, and some say game-ruiningly overpowered.
Compared to the rest of the Cleric domains it's probably to be considered middle of the road. It's not Tempest Domain, but it's not Knowledge Domain either.
Knowledge works well in the right campaign. Especially if you do not have a wizard.
I do wish War Cleric had gotten Extra Attack at level 6.
Seems odd they are the only gish caster that does not get it.
Granted Sorcerer doesn't get a Gish subclass either but they almost did (Stone Sorcerer FTW) which had a wonky way of getting an extra attack per round but could swing it (PUN!) fairly often.
Overall it would be about inline with other caster gishes...especially now with the crazy Bladesinger buffs.
Take a High Elf as the basis for your Cleric and you can take the booming blade cantrip as your chosen Wizard cantrip.
That's scaling thunder damage that'll give you a decent, if not fantastic, melee damage boost.
I mean some domain has to be the worst right? But I really do think it is incorrect to call them bad because they're not as good as the others. They're still clerics.
In comparison to other domains, though, they get a combination of meh spells (except for a few that were going to prepare anyway) and meh domain features that don't really accentuate what a cleric is good at or go far enough into making the cleric good at something else.
Sure a +10 to hit is ok, but that is once per Long (or eventually short) rest. Sure a bonus action attack is OK, but you can only use it a few times and your bonus action is already called for by one of the best cleric spells. Lucky you got that spell on your auto-prepared list, but it isn't like there are better war themed spells to replace it with on the rest of the cleric list. I guess you get a bit more versatility. But you *can* use that bonus action on the round that you cast your 1-action concentration spell (IF spiritual weapon isn't already up). So what? One use per combat? Good! The fact that you get so few uses won't hinder you too much. Maybe more if your spiritual weapon isn't close to another target. Maybe even more when you lose concentration and have to spend more slots because you took hits while standing somewhere where you can make melee attacks instead of protecting your concentration.
Its twice per short rest at level 6....so in an "average" game (assuming 2 short rests) they are getting it 6 times a day.
Its odd because the subclass actually MC really well with certain builds (GWM Fighter for example) but by itself its just ok.
Still think it needs Extra Attack but thats me.
Being a full caster who wants to use melee attacks is always a little subpar compared to actually using one's powerful spells. But it means a decent option for using attacks to make spell slots go further. So its not bad.
Definitely more fun as a multiclass dip though tbh
I also wish they would have given the war domain the extra attack at 6th level.
Extra attack at 6th is probably the most elegant fix to help them get more out of being a martial oriented cleric, it would also stack nicely with Divine Favor, Crusader's Mantle, and Holy Weapon for some properly good damage scaling over time.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Agreed. Being a "War" Cleric you'd expect them to be a bit more militant than their Cleric contemporaries. It's like Bladesingers getting extra attack or Valor/Sword bards getting extra attack. It would just make the class effective at the thing they're actually supposed to be doing.