Used the mock encounter tool to run a paladin and war priest through the motions with various opponents at various levels, multiple times, with equal stats and equipment. Captured everything in a spreadsheet for reference, analysis, and insight. The results were interesting. Overall, the Paladin demonstrated greater survivability and could stay in the fight longer than the Priest. However, in 1v1 encounters, the War Priest did 5-10% more damage over the duration of the encounter. This was accomplished with Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon, not the extra attack. In 1vMany encounters, Spirit Guardians did AOE damage to any in the vicinity and thus, the aggregate damage was substantial. We assumed the Paladin would deal more damage with Divine Smite, Vow of Enmity, and other benefits. We were wrong. The numbers don't lie.
IMHO, if you need a versatile damage dealer with a lot of dynamic gameplay options, this is a surprisingly excellent domain and compliments other classes very well.
I was under the silly idea (novice me) that the classes were for the most part balanced. Optimization is a deciding factor in combat scenarios, those who know how to play the classes will get more out of them then those who don't. But that's not the only part of the game and for some not even an important part of the game. But thank you for putting forth the effort to show the facts.
Looking at damage output is only a very small sliver of the game. That war priest isn’t going to buff the saving throws of everyone within 10 feet, or make them immune to fear, or any of the other aura powers.
The cleric is probably going to dump cha, while the pally won’t and will have the good persuasion rolls to help avoid the fight in the first place.
And those white room math scenarios usually fall apart in actual play. They are often based on assumptions that don’t necessarily come up in game. Pallys don’t get AoEs, that’s very true. But then in an actual fight with a whole party present, the cleric might not actually pull off spirit guardians against the same number of enemies you assume. Or since it’s a concentration spell, it might not work at all. (Cleric casts it, next bad guy to go is 20 feet away, hits cleric with ranged attack and cleric fails concentration check, for example.) There are just too many variables to account for everything that could happen in a fight.
This isn’t to say war clerics aren’t a solid character choice, and very effective. Just that you can’t possibly capture play experience in a spreadsheet.
The cleric is probably going to dump cha, while the pally won’t and will have the good persuasion rolls to help avoid the fight in the first place.
The other side of that is the paladin is likely to dump wis, while the cleric wont and will have good perception rolls (or passive) to help avoid a fight in the first place (or, if a fight is necessary, gain surprise or at least avoid being surprised)
But yes, I agree any sort of analysis does have to simplyfy things and make assumptions which might match a single battle but not all of the different battles in a campaign
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Used the mock encounter tool to run a paladin and war priest through the motions with various opponents at various levels, multiple times, with equal stats and equipment. Captured everything in a spreadsheet for reference, analysis, and insight. The results were interesting. Overall, the Paladin demonstrated greater survivability and could stay in the fight longer than the Priest. However, in 1v1 encounters, the War Priest did 5-10% more damage over the duration of the encounter. This was accomplished with Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon, not the extra attack. In 1vMany encounters, Spirit Guardians did AOE damage to any in the vicinity and thus, the aggregate damage was substantial. We assumed the Paladin would deal more damage with Divine Smite, Vow of Enmity, and other benefits. We were wrong. The numbers don't lie.
IMHO, if you need a versatile damage dealer with a lot of dynamic gameplay options, this is a surprisingly excellent domain and compliments other classes very well.
What does your data say?
Casual part-time D&D adventurer
I was under the silly idea (novice me) that the classes were for the most part balanced. Optimization is a deciding factor in combat scenarios, those who know how to play the classes will get more out of them then those who don't. But that's not the only part of the game and for some not even an important part of the game. But thank you for putting forth the effort to show the facts.
I have yet to try running a paladin.
This is good to know. I was planning to make another War Cleric/Priest and was just hesitating. So, thank you.
Looking at damage output is only a very small sliver of the game. That war priest isn’t going to buff the saving throws of everyone within 10 feet, or make them immune to fear, or any of the other aura powers.
The cleric is probably going to dump cha, while the pally won’t and will have the good persuasion rolls to help avoid the fight in the first place.
And those white room math scenarios usually fall apart in actual play. They are often based on assumptions that don’t necessarily come up in game. Pallys don’t get AoEs, that’s very true. But then in an actual fight with a whole party present, the cleric might not actually pull off spirit guardians against the same number of enemies you assume. Or since it’s a concentration spell, it might not work at all. (Cleric casts it, next bad guy to go is 20 feet away, hits cleric with ranged attack and cleric fails concentration check, for example.) There are just too many variables to account for everything that could happen in a fight.
This isn’t to say war clerics aren’t a solid character choice, and very effective. Just that you can’t possibly capture play experience in a spreadsheet.
The other side of that is the paladin is likely to dump wis, while the cleric wont and will have good perception rolls (or passive) to help avoid a fight in the first place (or, if a fight is necessary, gain surprise or at least avoid being surprised)
But yes, I agree any sort of analysis does have to simplyfy things and make assumptions which might match a single battle but not all of the different battles in a campaign