So in my opinion, the base cleric class is kinda lacking. Has spellcasting and Channel Divinity, but doesn’t get much else. It’s subclasses are really where it shines though.
Cleric subclasses are so diverse, and make any cleric such a different character than any other cleric, sometimes makes the cleric’s role in the party a little foggy.
“Oh, clerics are a support class, made to buff and heal the party.” Well then, what is the War Domain or Tempest Domain? I would just like to have some help with putting some of the cleric subclasses into roles for the party.
Tempest... raw offensive power. Perhaps multiclass into order of scribes to combine
Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath
Starting at 2nd level, you can use your Channel Divinity to wield the power of the storm with unchecked ferocity.
When you roll lightning or thunder damage, you can use your Channel Divinity to deal maximum damage, instead of rolling.
and
Awakened Spellbook
2nd-level Order of Scribes feature
Using specially prepared inks and ancient incantations passed down by your wizardly order, you have awakened an arcane sentience within your spellbook.
While you are holding the book, it grants you the following benefits:
You can use the book as a spellcasting focus for your wizard spells.
When you cast a wizard spell with a spell slot, you can temporarily replace its damage type with a type that appears in another spell in your spellbook, which magically alters the spell’s formula for this casting only. The latter spell must be of the same level as the spell slot you expend.
When you cast a wizard spell as a ritual, you can use the spell’s normal casting time, rather than adding 10 minutes to it. Once you use this benefit, you can’t do so again until you finish a long rest.
If necessary, you can replace the book over the course of a short rest by using your Wizardly Quill to write arcane sigils in a blank book or a magic spellbook to which you’re attuned. At the end of the rest, your spellbook’s consciousness is summoned into the new book, which the consciousness transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells. If the previous book still existed somewhere, all the spells vanish from its pages.
To deal an automatic 48 thunder damage with a simple fireball?
Clerics at level 1 are already pretty decent in a fight.
Actually, this is mostly true. Between Toll the Dead, Guiding Bolt, and Inflict Wounds, PLUS their incredible AC and good hit points, clerics are great at level 1 in a fight...
The real strength of a Cleric is that they one of the only 2 full caster classes that have access to their entire spell list and able to completely change their spell list after a long rest (the other being the Druid). This along with good AC from medium/heavy armor and usage of shields, gives them great flexibility to be able to fill many different roles that a adventuring party may require.
So in my opinion, the base cleric class is kinda lacking. Has spellcasting and Channel Divinity, but doesn’t get much else. It’s subclasses are really where it shines though.
Cleric subclasses are so diverse, and make any cleric such a different character than any other cleric, sometimes makes the cleric’s role in the party a little foggy.
“Oh, clerics are a support class, made to buff and heal the party.” Well then, what is the War Domain or Tempest Domain? I would just like to have some help with putting some of the cleric subclasses into roles for the party.
I’ll start with the easiest: Life Domain = Healer
Does spellcasting seem like a small thing to you? As a caster, it's the main feature that a cleric has.
Regarding the role of the cleric, it's always support. Then you can build the build so that it can work well in another secondary role. But he will always stand out as support. And its spell list, and its subclasses, are mainly focused on that.
Clerics at level 1 are already pretty decent in a fight.
Actually, this is mostly true. Between Toll the Dead, Guiding Bolt, and Inflict Wounds, PLUS their incredible AC and good hit points, clerics are great at level 1 in a fight...
but they fall off pretty quickly later on.
After they make some levels and get better healing spells is when they shine.
However, if you make a cleric with good wisdom and defense they can stay legitimate in a fight. They can take a feat at level 4 to keep them more valid in a fight. Though I would opt to max out wisdom to 20 before taking a feat
Clerics tend to be designed around party support with different domains giving different ways.
However they do get some good save or suck spells as they level up which can end encounters quickly.
Warding bond is something any Cleric should be doing along with Spirit Guardians (Bless at lower levels).
I have always thought warding bond is a very situational spell, who are you planning to cast it on?
Warding bond means you will have to make a con save for concentration every time the target gets hit (as well as when you get hit) the total damage the party takes is only reduced by the extra +1 to AC.
It is a great spell if you are travelling as a body guard for someone who is pretty weak but has to be kept alive but I don't think it is worth casting it on either a frontliner (that would deplete your hit points very quickly) or a wizard / sorcerer who shouldn't get hit much and don't have that much less hit points than you.
As to the original question full spell casters all get very little from the base class other than full spellcasting. Look at the wizard at level 1 they get spellcasting and arcane recovery (which is suimilar to one option for channel divinity for clerics), after that they only get ASIs and subclass features until thet reach level 18 (if they get that far). Being a full caster is very powerful so that is not a problem, the main difference between a base wizard and a base cleric is the spell list, both classes get quite a variety of control / buffing and spells. The cleric is missing the better damage spells and things like low level teleportation but the cleric gets healing spells.
The result is all clerics are great for support and can do a reasonable amount of damage (though not as much as pure daage based characters). Most subclasses enhance the support they gave give is differing ways but two subclasses can be more damage focused, tempest has been mentioned, the other is light (the domain list has a number of the better damage dealing spells such as fireball and radiance of dawn is a huge AoE damage dealing option at lower levels.
So in my opinion, the base cleric class is kinda lacking. Has spellcasting and Channel Divinity, but doesn’t get much else. It’s subclasses are really where it shines though.
Cleric subclasses are so diverse, and make any cleric such a different character than any other cleric, sometimes makes the cleric’s role in the party a little foggy.
“Oh, clerics are a support class, made to buff and heal the party.” Well then, what is the War Domain or Tempest Domain? I would just like to have some help with putting some of the cleric subclasses into roles for the party.
I’ll start with the easiest: Life Domain = Healer
The Cleric is definitely a subclass-driven class.
I know other players disagree, but in my opinion class-based party roles went away with 5E. With feats and races pretty much any class except Barbarian can fill any role. Some classes are better at certain roles - A Paladin, Cleric or Druid make better healers than other classes, but a Bard or Ranger can make a good healer and even a Wizard, Artificer, Fighter or Rogue can be passable with the right class and feat choices.
Generally I let the player decide their role. Personally, when I play a cleric it is usually a front liner of some sort. Either a melee guy using a weapon and a blade cantrip or a controller or a Wizard-Cleric multiclass controller. Usually the only healing spell I will get is healing word and I usually only use that on downed parety memebers to get them back up whack-a-mole. With characters I build, my Rangers and Paladins are generally more "healers" than my Clerics.
Clerics at level 1 are already pretty decent in a fight.
Actually, this is mostly true. Between Toll the Dead, Guiding Bolt, and Inflict Wounds, PLUS their incredible AC and good hit points, clerics are great at level 1 in a fight...
but they fall off pretty quickly later on.
I think that depends on subclass and spells. I will admit though if you are defining a fight as using weapons it is a lot better if you can pick up booming blade. They have a lot of good combat-oriented spells, as long as you are not wasting your slots on healing.
I think that depends on subclass and spells. I will admit though if you are defining a fight as using weapons it is a lot better if you can pick up booming blade. They have a lot of good combat-oriented spells, as long as you are not wasting your slots on healing.
Probably should say "unnecessary healing" in there, though I suspect it's what you meant; the first thing every cleric needs to learn is that the job of a healer is to keep people in a fight and that's it, topping up health-points is almost always a waste of resources. The only exceptions are high value healing spells like prayer of healing which is good if your party is running low on hit dice (and only then) as a way to top up before a fight. Other than that my clerics usually take healing word and nothing else, because it only takes 1 hit-point to give someone another turn, and if an enemy is strong enough to down them it probably doesn't matter how much more you could give. The main benefit of Life Domain is that the extra healing is free, and gives you a bit extra from your limited resources that might sometimes help (or you can use the channel divinity instead, which is a properly good healing effect).
As a front-liner, even without booming blade or green-flame blade, if you add spirit guardians and/or spiritual weapon you can still be a elite bashing and/or group destroying combat monster with high AC, and decent hit-points. A paladin can be more durable, more destructive to single targets, and still have a good amount of built-in healing and support, but the cleric has full casting and all the flexibility that provides, as well as more channel divinity options, so while a front line cleric and paladin can feel very similar, they can do things very differently which is part of the fun of them.
I think in general when considering the role for a character the first question should either be "what role do you want the character to play" and/or "what role does the group need" as these are the two best ways to approach that decision. Then you can start building a character around the answer and see what you come up with. Cleric is a very flexible platform thanks to its spell list, and while it's not the best list for blasting, control etc. it's not like there aren't any options in there, it's just not going to be your only thing. You can build most classes to be a whole bunch of things, and even the less flexible ones can still be used as part of a multi-class depending on what you actually want (barbarian may be very much a melee warrior, but a one or two level dip in barbarian can be valuable to a whole range of other builds).
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Probably should say "unnecessary healing" in there, though I suspect it's what you meant; the first thing every cleric needs to learn is that the job of a healer is to keep people in a fight and that's it, topping up health-points is almost always a waste of resources.
That is what I meant mostly. People can play how they want, but spell slots are a limited resource and any you use on healing you can't use on combat (if by combat you mean damaging/destroying the enemy).
I usually have healing word and aid and occasionally at high levels a concentration healing spell. Not using HW to bring up a downed ally is kind of selfish, but that is not really part of the characters main role. Keeping teamates alive is generally everyone's role, clerics just get a very cheap way to do it.
The only exceptions are high value healing spells like prayer of healing which is good if your party is running low on hit dice (and only then) as a way to top up before a fight. \
Iam not a big fan of prayer of healing, but I generally do like Aid, Aura of Life and Aura of Vitality.
I like aid because you can get up to 3 downed allies up with it.
I use Aura of Vitality for the "top up" over POH. It is a 3rd level slot, but it is 20d6 if you have a minute to spare and you can distribute those however you want.
I think in general when considering the role for a character the first question should either be "what role do you want the character to play" and/or "what role does the group need" as these are the two best ways to approach that decision. Then you can start building a character around the answer and see what you come up with. Cleric is a very flexible platform thanks to its spell list, and while it's not the best list for blasting, control etc. it's not like there aren't any options in there, it's just not going to be your only thing. You can build most classes to be a whole bunch of things, and even the less flexible ones can still be used as part of a multi-class depending on what you actually want (barbarian may be very much a melee warrior, but a one or two level dip in barbarian can be valuable to a whole range of other builds).
Agree completely. I will say generally parties do better with "what do you want" instead of "what does the group need"
I think abandoning a character you really want to play for the group it is more difficult than overcoming your deficiencies. Now I will add though that when you ask some players "what do you want to play" their answer is they want to fill that missing gap because it gives them their thing.
For me if we have 2 Warlocks and a Sorcerer in a Party and I want to play a Warlock for the theme of the campaign and my backstory - I probably am not going to be happy with something else. If I play a 3rd Warlock we might have a tough time and be stepping on each other with some stuff but usually you can manage and that will be better for me than going a different direction.
Other guys though will look at that group and think - I can play a Ranger with theves tools and be the focus for two thirds of the game .... I am playing a Ranger now let me work on backstory so it fits into your group of creepy spellcasters.
For me if we have 2 Warlocks and a Sorcerer in a Party and I want to play a Warlock for the theme of the campaign and my backstory - I probably am not going to be happy with something else. If I play a 3rd Warlock we might have a tough time and be stepping on each other with some stuff but usually you can manage and that will be better for me than going a different direction.
Other guys though will look at that group and think - I can play a Ranger with theves tools and be the focus for two thirds of the game .... I am playing a Ranger now let me work on backstory so it fits into your group of creepy spellcasters.
I think there is also a middle ground. While I agree you should not play a character you don't want to play in order to balance the group I generally have more character concepts I would like to play than campaigns to play them in. So if invited to play in the group with two warlocks and a sorcerer I might have an echo knight, a fiend warlock, a eloquence bard and a beastmaster ranger that I would like to play. Seeing the rest of the party I would then choose either the fighter or the ranger as my PC for the campaign.
I think abandoning a character you really want to play for the group it is more difficult than overcoming your deficiencies.
Yeah I should have been more clear, the two aren't mutually exclusive, a lot of the time you'll want to ask both questions.
While it could be very much subjective but in my experience most players have multiple ideas in mind long before you announce a new campaign, so they've got options to choose between, or can be asked "would you consider playing a cleric?" in the early stages to see if that sparks any ideas they're happy with etc. I've found most players want to try every class at some point, though some will have cool ideas they especially want to try first, so there'll be some balancing act to fit them all in. But usually someone either already wants to go support, can be tempted, or we can discuss adapting building to mix in a little more support across the group instead etc.
Well, except for that one player who only ever wants to play a barbarian for some reason (yet never remembers to Rage or how Reckless Attack works). 🤦♂️
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Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I think abandoning a character you really want to play for the group it is more difficult than overcoming your deficiencies.
Yeah I should have been more clear, the two aren't mutually exclusive, a lot of the time you'll want to ask both questions.
While it could be very much subjective but in my experience most players have multiple ideas in mind long before you announce a new campaign, so they've got options to choose between, or can be asked "would you consider playing a cleric?" in the early stages to see if that sparks any ideas they're happy with etc. I've found most players want to try every class at some point, though some will have cool ideas they especially want to try first, so there'll be some balancing act to fit them all in. But usually someone either already wants to go support, can be tempted, or we can discuss adapting building to mix in a little more support across the group instead etc.
Well, except for that one player who only ever wants to play a barbarian for some reason (yet never remembers to Rage or how Reckless Attack works). 🤦♂️
I would mostly agree and the example I used is obviously extreme. I do have a bunch of characters I want to play but only a few are right thematically for a given campaign for me.
Clerics at level 1 are already pretty decent in a fight.
Actually, this is mostly true. Between Toll the Dead, Guiding Bolt, and Inflict Wounds, PLUS their incredible AC and good hit points, clerics are great at level 1 in a fight...
but they fall off pretty quickly later on.
No they don't. They don't "fall off quickly". Far from it.
Pop a Spirit Guardians and a Spiritual Weapon and go ham.
They have the best sustained AOE in the game right there, and it isn't even using their action after the first round. Or, if multiple fights in quick succession, not using their action at all.
Cleric is arguably the most powerful class in the game. Wizards tend to edge past them just slightly, but often by multiclassing a dip... into cleric.
Stop trying to heal people and you'll see just how nasty a well tuned cleric can be on the battlefield. They're absolute units.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Clerics at level 1 are already pretty decent in a fight.
Actually, this is mostly true. Between Toll the Dead, Guiding Bolt, and Inflict Wounds, PLUS their incredible AC and good hit points, clerics are great at level 1 in a fight...
but they fall off pretty quickly later on.
No they don't. They don't "fall off quickly". Far from it.
Pop a Spirit Guardians and a Spiritual Weapon and go ham.
They have the best sustained AOE in the game right there, and it isn't even using their action after the first round. Or, if multiple fights in quick succession, not using their action at all.
Cleric is arguably the most powerful class in the game. Wizards tend to edge past them just slightly, but often by multiclassing a dip... into cleric.
Stop trying to heal people and you'll see just how nasty a well tuned cleric can be on the battlefield. They're absolute units.
Most Clerics are going to be hard pressed to keep spirit guardians going for more than a few rounds, especially if they are trying to maximize the number of enemies they are getting. Also since it does nothing when you cast it, sometimes it doesn't damage anyone before you lose concentration. If you are playing a cleric with heavy armor this is not as big a problem, but unless they have some other ability through a race or subclass, like shield spell or something, they are going to be making a lot of concentration saves if they are using SG effectively.
That said I agree with the premise. Clerics have a lot of power in their spells and subclass abilities, but if all you do is run around healing you are not using them.
I'm not sure how Clerics will be hard pressed to keep Spirit Guardians for more than a few rounds, barring some wild situations it's always been fairly easy to maintain it for the full 10 minute duration as needed.
And while it doesn't do damage immediately when it arrives, it does do damage at the start of creature's turns. So the distinction isn't all that important, the damage still happens before the enemy can react to it and has their turn.
It also slows enemies. Meaning very often an enemy will try to come up to and fight you. But as soon as they enter the aura they take damage and then their speed is halved, often stopping them dead in their tracks. Now they gotta dash just to try to close in on you, wasting their whole turn.
Between their fairly high AC, using Med/Heavy armor plus Shield, and the difficulty enemies have closing into reach... I'm not sure how you're losing concentration so easily. Especially dince you're not even using your Action and can freely dodge if you want, or disengage and reposition.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
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So in my opinion, the base cleric class is kinda lacking. Has spellcasting and Channel Divinity, but doesn’t get much else. It’s subclasses are really where it shines though.
Cleric subclasses are so diverse, and make any cleric such a different character than any other cleric, sometimes makes the cleric’s role in the party a little foggy.
“Oh, clerics are a support class, made to buff and heal the party.” Well then, what is the War Domain or Tempest Domain? I would just like to have some help with putting some of the cleric subclasses into roles for the party.
I’ll start with the easiest: Life Domain = Healer
I’d say War Domain= Strategic range spells/buffs
Tempest Domain= Battle caster and destructive power
i rarely use cleric but I hope this helps😊
Tempest... raw offensive power. Perhaps multiclass into order of scribes to combine
Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath
Starting at 2nd level, you can use your Channel Divinity to wield the power of the storm with unchecked ferocity.
When you roll lightning or thunder damage, you can use your Channel Divinity to deal maximum damage, instead of rolling.
and
Awakened Spellbook
2nd-level Order of Scribes feature
Using specially prepared inks and ancient incantations passed down by your wizardly order, you have awakened an arcane sentience within your spellbook.
While you are holding the book, it grants you the following benefits:
If necessary, you can replace the book over the course of a short rest by using your Wizardly Quill to write arcane sigils in a blank book or a magic spellbook to which you’re attuned. At the end of the rest, your spellbook’s consciousness is summoned into the new book, which the consciousness transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells. If the previous book still existed somewhere, all the spells vanish from its pages.
To deal an automatic 48 thunder damage with a simple fireball?
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
Clerics at level 1 are already pretty decent in a fight.
Actually, this is mostly true. Between Toll the Dead, Guiding Bolt, and Inflict Wounds, PLUS their incredible AC and good hit points, clerics are great at level 1 in a fight...
but they fall off pretty quickly later on.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
Clerics tend to be designed around party support with different domains giving different ways.
However they do get some good save or suck spells as they level up which can end encounters quickly.
Warding bond is something any Cleric should be doing along with Spirit Guardians (Bless at lower levels).
Spirit Weapon + Guardians is also great. Banishment... the list goes on.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
The real strength of a Cleric is that they one of the only 2 full caster classes that have access to their entire spell list and able to completely change their spell list after a long rest (the other being the Druid). This along with good AC from medium/heavy armor and usage of shields, gives them great flexibility to be able to fill many different roles that a adventuring party may require.
Does spellcasting seem like a small thing to you? As a caster, it's the main feature that a cleric has.
Regarding the role of the cleric, it's always support. Then you can build the build so that it can work well in another secondary role. But he will always stand out as support. And its spell list, and its subclasses, are mainly focused on that.
After they make some levels and get better healing spells is when they shine.
However, if you make a cleric with good wisdom and defense they can stay legitimate in a fight. They can take a feat at level 4 to keep them more valid in a fight. Though I would opt to max out wisdom to 20 before taking a feat
I have always thought warding bond is a very situational spell, who are you planning to cast it on?
Warding bond means you will have to make a con save for concentration every time the target gets hit (as well as when you get hit) the total damage the party takes is only reduced by the extra +1 to AC.
It is a great spell if you are travelling as a body guard for someone who is pretty weak but has to be kept alive but I don't think it is worth casting it on either a frontliner (that would deplete your hit points very quickly) or a wizard / sorcerer who shouldn't get hit much and don't have that much less hit points than you.
As to the original question full spell casters all get very little from the base class other than full spellcasting. Look at the wizard at level 1 they get spellcasting and arcane recovery (which is suimilar to one option for channel divinity for clerics), after that they only get ASIs and subclass features until thet reach level 18 (if they get that far). Being a full caster is very powerful so that is not a problem, the main difference between a base wizard and a base cleric is the spell list, both classes get quite a variety of control / buffing and spells. The cleric is missing the better damage spells and things like low level teleportation but the cleric gets healing spells.
The result is all clerics are great for support and can do a reasonable amount of damage (though not as much as pure daage based characters). Most subclasses enhance the support they gave give is differing ways but two subclasses can be more damage focused, tempest has been mentioned, the other is light (the domain list has a number of the better damage dealing spells such as fireball and radiance of dawn is a huge AoE damage dealing option at lower levels.
The Cleric is definitely a subclass-driven class.
I know other players disagree, but in my opinion class-based party roles went away with 5E. With feats and races pretty much any class except Barbarian can fill any role. Some classes are better at certain roles - A Paladin, Cleric or Druid make better healers than other classes, but a Bard or Ranger can make a good healer and even a Wizard, Artificer, Fighter or Rogue can be passable with the right class and feat choices.
Generally I let the player decide their role. Personally, when I play a cleric it is usually a front liner of some sort. Either a melee guy using a weapon and a blade cantrip or a controller or a Wizard-Cleric multiclass controller. Usually the only healing spell I will get is healing word and I usually only use that on downed parety memebers to get them back up whack-a-mole. With characters I build, my Rangers and Paladins are generally more "healers" than my Clerics.
I think that depends on subclass and spells. I will admit though if you are defining a fight as using weapons it is a lot better if you can pick up booming blade. They have a lot of good combat-oriented spells, as long as you are not wasting your slots on healing.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Agree completely. I will say generally parties do better with "what do you want" instead of "what does the group need"
I think abandoning a character you really want to play for the group it is more difficult than overcoming your deficiencies. Now I will add though that when you ask some players "what do you want to play" their answer is they want to fill that missing gap because it gives them their thing.
For me if we have 2 Warlocks and a Sorcerer in a Party and I want to play a Warlock for the theme of the campaign and my backstory - I probably am not going to be happy with something else. If I play a 3rd Warlock we might have a tough time and be stepping on each other with some stuff but usually you can manage and that will be better for me than going a different direction.
Other guys though will look at that group and think - I can play a Ranger with theves tools and be the focus for two thirds of the game .... I am playing a Ranger now let me work on backstory so it fits into your group of creepy spellcasters.
I think there is also a middle ground. While I agree you should not play a character you don't want to play in order to balance the group I generally have more character concepts I would like to play than campaigns to play them in. So if invited to play in the group with two warlocks and a sorcerer I might have an echo knight, a fiend warlock, a eloquence bard and a beastmaster ranger that I would like to play. Seeing the rest of the party I would then choose either the fighter or the ranger as my PC for the campaign.
Yeah I should have been more clear, the two aren't mutually exclusive, a lot of the time you'll want to ask both questions.
While it could be very much subjective but in my experience most players have multiple ideas in mind long before you announce a new campaign, so they've got options to choose between, or can be asked "would you consider playing a cleric?" in the early stages to see if that sparks any ideas they're happy with etc. I've found most players want to try every class at some point, though some will have cool ideas they especially want to try first, so there'll be some balancing act to fit them all in. But usually someone either already wants to go support, can be tempted, or we can discuss adapting building to mix in a little more support across the group instead etc.
Well, except for that one player who only ever wants to play a barbarian for some reason (yet never remembers to Rage or how Reckless Attack works). 🤦♂️
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I would mostly agree and the example I used is obviously extreme. I do have a bunch of characters I want to play but only a few are right thematically for a given campaign for me.
No they don't. They don't "fall off quickly". Far from it.
Pop a Spirit Guardians and a Spiritual Weapon and go ham.
They have the best sustained AOE in the game right there, and it isn't even using their action after the first round. Or, if multiple fights in quick succession, not using their action at all.
Cleric is arguably the most powerful class in the game. Wizards tend to edge past them just slightly, but often by multiclassing a dip... into cleric.
Stop trying to heal people and you'll see just how nasty a well tuned cleric can be on the battlefield. They're absolute units.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Most Clerics are going to be hard pressed to keep spirit guardians going for more than a few rounds, especially if they are trying to maximize the number of enemies they are getting. Also since it does nothing when you cast it, sometimes it doesn't damage anyone before you lose concentration. If you are playing a cleric with heavy armor this is not as big a problem, but unless they have some other ability through a race or subclass, like shield spell or something, they are going to be making a lot of concentration saves if they are using SG effectively.
That said I agree with the premise. Clerics have a lot of power in their spells and subclass abilities, but if all you do is run around healing you are not using them.
I'm not sure how Clerics will be hard pressed to keep Spirit Guardians for more than a few rounds, barring some wild situations it's always been fairly easy to maintain it for the full 10 minute duration as needed.
And while it doesn't do damage immediately when it arrives, it does do damage at the start of creature's turns. So the distinction isn't all that important, the damage still happens before the enemy can react to it and has their turn.
It also slows enemies. Meaning very often an enemy will try to come up to and fight you. But as soon as they enter the aura they take damage and then their speed is halved, often stopping them dead in their tracks. Now they gotta dash just to try to close in on you, wasting their whole turn.
Between their fairly high AC, using Med/Heavy armor plus Shield, and the difficulty enemies have closing into reach... I'm not sure how you're losing concentration so easily. Especially dince you're not even using your Action and can freely dodge if you want, or disengage and reposition.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.