Clerics at level 1 are already pretty decent in a fight.
Actually, this is mostly true. Between Toll the Dead, Guiding Bolt, and Inflict Wounds, PLUS their incredible AC and good hit points, clerics are great at level 1 in a fight...
but they fall off pretty quickly later on.
No they don't. They don't "fall off quickly". Far from it.
Pop a Spirit Guardians and a Spiritual Weapon and go ham.
They have the best sustained AOE in the game right there, and it isn't even using their action after the first round. Or, if multiple fights in quick succession, not using their action at all.
Cleric is arguably the most powerful class in the game. Wizards tend to edge past them just slightly, but often by multiclassing a dip... into cleric.
Stop trying to heal people and you'll see just how nasty a well tuned cleric can be on the battlefield. They're absolute units.
Most Clerics are going to be hard pressed to keep spirit guardians going for more than a few rounds, especially if they are trying to maximize the number of enemies they are getting. Also since it does nothing when you cast it, sometimes it doesn't damage anyone before you lose concentration. If you are playing a cleric with heavy armor this is not as big a problem, but unless they have some other ability through a race or subclass, like shield spell or something, they are going to be making a lot of concentration saves if they are using SG effectively.
That said I agree with the premise. Clerics have a lot of power in their spells and subclass abilities, but if all you do is run around healing you are not using them.
idk about that
-All clerics have a shield and at least medium armor. -If you DM is targeting you that hard because you cast the spell, before it ever even does damage to anything, then I think they would have to explain why those enemies know what spirit guardians is/looks like/does. -If you do get targeted that hard then you can take the dodge action. -SG halves speed, and has a 15ft radius, so if something has the standard 30ft movement they cant get into melee if they don't start in 5ft of the radius. -it does nothing when its cast but you can move yourself right on top of enemies who will take damage at the start of their turn.
SG halves speed, and has a 15ft radius, so if something has the standard 30ft movement they cant get into melee if they don't start in 5ft of the radius.
Just wanted to slightly correct you on this one; to attack you an enemy only needs to get within reach of you, so they don't need a full 30 feet of movement to pass through the radius, they only need to move 10 feet into it, because if it's 15 feet from you, then that's enough to get within 5 feet of you to attack (and assuming they only have a 5 foot reach).
So to be unable to attack you they'd need to be more than 10 feet from the edge with a standard 30 feet of movement, and be either unable or unwilling to use a ranged attack.
I will say though that enemies don't need to recognise the spell to focus fire on the cleric casting it; it's a swirling mass of spirits, even if they think it's a purely defensive spell it's plausible for them to want to break it. The question isn't whether they could, the question is whether there is a more obvious threat at the time like a Recklessly Raging Barbarian, or a fireballing Wizard or whatever.
I wouldn't say that spirit guardians is either unreliable or super reliable but somewhere in between; if it's a key spell in your arsenal then it's worth investing in War Caster and/or Resilient (Constitution), but even with both of these it can still potentially be stopped by a single hit, it's a numbers game you can weight in your favour but that's just the reality of any concentration spell on someone likely to be taking hits.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Clerics at level 1 are already pretty decent in a fight.
Actually, this is mostly true. Between Toll the Dead, Guiding Bolt, and Inflict Wounds, PLUS their incredible AC and good hit points, clerics are great at level 1 in a fight...
but they fall off pretty quickly later on.
No they don't. They don't "fall off quickly". Far from it.
Pop a Spirit Guardians and a Spiritual Weapon and go ham.
They have the best sustained AOE in the game right there, and it isn't even using their action after the first round. Or, if multiple fights in quick succession, not using their action at all.
Cleric is arguably the most powerful class in the game. Wizards tend to edge past them just slightly, but often by multiclassing a dip... into cleric.
Stop trying to heal people and you'll see just how nasty a well tuned cleric can be on the battlefield. They're absolute units.
Most Clerics are going to be hard pressed to keep spirit guardians going for more than a few rounds, especially if they are trying to maximize the number of enemies they are getting. Also since it does nothing when you cast it, sometimes it doesn't damage anyone before you lose concentration. If you are playing a cleric with heavy armor this is not as big a problem, but unless they have some other ability through a race or subclass, like shield spell or something, they are going to be making a lot of concentration saves if they are using SG effectively.
That said I agree with the premise. Clerics have a lot of power in their spells and subclass abilities, but if all you do is run around healing you are not using them.
idk about that
-All clerics have a shield and at least medium armor. -If you DM is targeting you that hard because you cast the spell, before it ever even does damage to anything, then I think they would have to explain why those enemies know what spirit guardians is/looks like/does. -If you do get targeted that hard then you can take the dodge action. -SG halves speed, and has a 15ft radius, so if something has the standard 30ft movement they cant get into melee if they don't start in 5ft of the radius. -it does nothing when its cast but you can move yourself right on top of enemies who will take damage at the start of their turn.
A shield and medium armor and no shield spell at level 5+ means getting hit a lot in melee without constitution save proficiency and if you cast spirit gaurdians you will almost certainly be targeted more than you otherwise would.
Dodge action does help and probably would let the spell last a long while, but you are giving up action economy to do that.
If they don't start within it they don't take damage at all unless they enter, which they probably won't. If they do start in it they can usually get to the cleric. Not always but usually.
I agree it is a good spell, just IME it is rare to last more than a couple rounds if you are getting multiple enemeies.
Clerics at level 1 are already pretty decent in a fight.
Actually, this is mostly true. Between Toll the Dead, Guiding Bolt, and Inflict Wounds, PLUS their incredible AC and good hit points, clerics are great at level 1 in a fight...
but they fall off pretty quickly later on.
No they don't. They don't "fall off quickly". Far from it.
Pop a Spirit Guardians and a Spiritual Weapon and go ham.
They have the best sustained AOE in the game right there, and it isn't even using their action after the first round. Or, if multiple fights in quick succession, not using their action at all.
Cleric is arguably the most powerful class in the game. Wizards tend to edge past them just slightly, but often by multiclassing a dip... into cleric.
Stop trying to heal people and you'll see just how nasty a well tuned cleric can be on the battlefield. They're absolute units.
Most Clerics are going to be hard pressed to keep spirit guardians going for more than a few rounds, especially if they are trying to maximize the number of enemies they are getting. Also since it does nothing when you cast it, sometimes it doesn't damage anyone before you lose concentration. If you are playing a cleric with heavy armor this is not as big a problem, but unless they have some other ability through a race or subclass, like shield spell or something, they are going to be making a lot of concentration saves if they are using SG effectively.
That said I agree with the premise. Clerics have a lot of power in their spells and subclass abilities, but if all you do is run around healing you are not using them.
idk about that
-All clerics have a shield and at least medium armor. -If you DM is targeting you that hard because you cast the spell, before it ever even does damage to anything, then I think they would have to explain why those enemies know what spirit guardians is/looks like/does. -If you do get targeted that hard then you can take the dodge action. -SG halves speed, and has a 15ft radius, so if something has the standard 30ft movement they cant get into melee if they don't start in 5ft of the radius. -it does nothing when its cast but you can move yourself right on top of enemies who will take damage at the start of their turn.
A shield and medium armor and no shield spell at level 5+ means getting hit a lot in melee without constitution save proficiency and if you cast spirit gaurdians you will almost certainly be targeted more than you otherwise would.
Dodge action does help and probably would let the spell last a long while, but you are giving up action economy to do that.
If they don't start within it they don't take damage at all unless they enter, which they probably won't. If they do start in it they can usually get to the cleric. Not always but usually.
I agree it is a good spell, just IME it is rare to last more than a couple rounds if you are getting multiple enemeies.
How long it lasts depends on how the DM is targeting the cleric.
Anything that wants to hit you in melee needs to enter your SG radius, then needs to move the 15ft with only half movement. If you are fighting dumb monsters and they are focusing the cleric to break concentration like they know how spellcasting works then it's a bit "**** your cleric in particular".
If you are talking about "with out the shield spell" then look at the actual AC. Even with just +0 medium armor and shield you are looking at up to 19 AC. With full plate and a shield you are at 20 AC A wizard or sorcerer with mage armor and 14 dex and casting shield spell you are at 20ac
Anything that wants to hit you in melee needs to enter your SG radius
If you're damaging creatures with spirit guardians then they are already within the 15 foot radius, they can easily get the cleric from there.
then needs to move the 15ft with only half movement.
As I already pointed out an enemy wouldn't need to move 15 feet to get you, it only needs to move 10 feet into the radius (as a 5 foot reach will cover the last 5). This means that at most a creature needs to spend 10 feet of extra movement, and that's assuming it doesn't have either a longer reach or a ranged attack it can use instead.
If you are talking about "with out the shield spell" then look at the actual AC. Even with just +0 medium armor and shield you are looking at up to 19 AC. With full plate and a shield you are at 20 AC A wizard or sorcerer with mage armor and 14 dex and casting shield spell you are at 20ac
Your average Wizard or Sorcerer doesn't want to be anywhere near melee range with enemies, but a Cleric using spirit guardians needs to be to use it effectively, so you're going to get wildly different mileage out of that AC. A ranged Wizard/Sorcerer might only need to use shield once or twice in a fight as they won't have as many attacks heading their way.
Even with an AC of 20 (if your DM lets you obtain expensive plate armour easily), enemies with a +5 to hit only need 15 or better to hit you, meaning 30% of all attacks will hit, and every single one will trigger a concentration saving throw. Often with concentration saving throws it's not the higher damage attacks you have to worry about, it's the high volumes of weaker attacks. And +5 is pretty low for the point at which you might expect to get plate armour, as a +5 is CR4 sort of territory.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
SG halves speed, and has a 15ft radius, so if something has the standard 30ft movement they cant get into melee if they don't start in 5ft of the radius.
Just wanted to slightly correct you on this one; to attack you an enemy only needs to get within reach of you, so they don't need a full 30 feet of movement to pass through the radius, they only need to move 10 feet into it, because if it's 15 feet from you, then that's enough to get within 5 feet of you to attack (and assuming they only have a 5 foot reach).
So to be unable to attack you they'd need to be more than 10 feet from the edge with a standard 30 feet of movement, and be either unable or unwilling to use a ranged attack.
This isn't correct. Spirit Guardians isn't difficult terrain. It isnt that moving inide it costs extra movement. No. Being in it HALVES you speed. If you're 10ft outside it, move thise 10 ft, and then enter it. Youve already used 10 of your NOW 15ft move speed. You cannot finish the 10ft move you need to get to the cleric. You only have 5ft left!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Clerics at level 1 are already pretty decent in a fight.
Actually, this is mostly true. Between Toll the Dead, Guiding Bolt, and Inflict Wounds, PLUS their incredible AC and good hit points, clerics are great at level 1 in a fight...
but they fall off pretty quickly later on.
No they don't. They don't "fall off quickly". Far from it.
Pop a Spirit Guardians and a Spiritual Weapon and go ham.
They have the best sustained AOE in the game right there, and it isn't even using their action after the first round. Or, if multiple fights in quick succession, not using their action at all.
Cleric is arguably the most powerful class in the game. Wizards tend to edge past them just slightly, but often by multiclassing a dip... into cleric.
Stop trying to heal people and you'll see just how nasty a well tuned cleric can be on the battlefield. They're absolute units.
Most Clerics are going to be hard pressed to keep spirit guardians going for more than a few rounds, especially if they are trying to maximize the number of enemies they are getting. Also since it does nothing when you cast it, sometimes it doesn't damage anyone before you lose concentration. If you are playing a cleric with heavy armor this is not as big a problem, but unless they have some other ability through a race or subclass, like shield spell or something, they are going to be making a lot of concentration saves if they are using SG effectively.
That said I agree with the premise. Clerics have a lot of power in their spells and subclass abilities, but if all you do is run around healing you are not using them.
idk about that
-All clerics have a shield and at least medium armor. -If you DM is targeting you that hard because you cast the spell, before it ever even does damage to anything, then I think they would have to explain why those enemies know what spirit guardians is/looks like/does. -If you do get targeted that hard then you can take the dodge action. -SG halves speed, and has a 15ft radius, so if something has the standard 30ft movement they cant get into melee if they don't start in 5ft of the radius. -it does nothing when its cast but you can move yourself right on top of enemies who will take damage at the start of their turn.
A shield and medium armor and no shield spell at level 5+ means getting hit a lot in melee without constitution save proficiency and if you cast spirit gaurdians you will almost certainly be targeted more than you otherwise would.
Dodge action does help and probably would let the spell last a long while, but you are giving up action economy to do that.
If they don't start within it they don't take damage at all unless they enter, which they probably won't. If they do start in it they can usually get to the cleric. Not always but usually.
I agree it is a good spell, just IME it is rare to last more than a couple rounds if you are getting multiple enemeies.
IME it lasts the full duration unless something dramatic happens, like getting hit by dragon breath weapons or some spike damage and having an actually difficult Con save to make.
The DC is typically DC10 for stray damage you take. You shouldn't be losing the spell easily. And if you are, you were going to lose whatever concentration spell you were using because you're someone getting tagged by tons of enemies from range, taking huge spike damage, or have godawful luck.
Spirit Guardians melts enemies. And if you're even remotely tactical you can position yourself so that you're AOEing enemies that simply cannot get you consistently or easily, whether adjacent to your martial/frontline allies, which means they can't get to you, or taking advantage of the slowing effect and difficult terain or other local area features. Even if they do, they're taking solid damage round after round for just being there and will die, so by them numbers you getting swarmed cuts down on the number of enemies on the battlefield due to them imploding on contact with your aoe.
What I see most often is this: An enemy decides he's going to rush in, gauges he's close enough, but then soon as he's in the aoe takes damage and stops in his tracks because he's now out of movement. That's it for his turn. You'll have your turn where you can react, move/reposition, or attack etc. And then he'll have a chance to go again, but takes another round of damage first. So before any enemies even get to you, they've spent 2 turns to get there and have taken 6d8 damage. It is pretty remarkable how effective that is, by itself, to keeping enemies off your face.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Clerics at level 1 are already pretty decent in a fight.
Actually, this is mostly true. Between Toll the Dead, Guiding Bolt, and Inflict Wounds, PLUS their incredible AC and good hit points, clerics are great at level 1 in a fight...
but they fall off pretty quickly later on.
No they don't. They don't "fall off quickly". Far from it.
Pop a Spirit Guardians and a Spiritual Weapon and go ham.
They have the best sustained AOE in the game right there, and it isn't even using their action after the first round. Or, if multiple fights in quick succession, not using their action at all.
Cleric is arguably the most powerful class in the game. Wizards tend to edge past them just slightly, but often by multiclassing a dip... into cleric.
Stop trying to heal people and you'll see just how nasty a well tuned cleric can be on the battlefield. They're absolute units.
Most Clerics are going to be hard pressed to keep spirit guardians going for more than a few rounds, especially if they are trying to maximize the number of enemies they are getting. Also since it does nothing when you cast it, sometimes it doesn't damage anyone before you lose concentration. If you are playing a cleric with heavy armor this is not as big a problem, but unless they have some other ability through a race or subclass, like shield spell or something, they are going to be making a lot of concentration saves if they are using SG effectively.
That said I agree with the premise. Clerics have a lot of power in their spells and subclass abilities, but if all you do is run around healing you are not using them.
idk about that
-All clerics have a shield and at least medium armor. -If you DM is targeting you that hard because you cast the spell, before it ever even does damage to anything, then I think they would have to explain why those enemies know what spirit guardians is/looks like/does. -If you do get targeted that hard then you can take the dodge action. -SG halves speed, and has a 15ft radius, so if something has the standard 30ft movement they cant get into melee if they don't start in 5ft of the radius. -it does nothing when its cast but you can move yourself right on top of enemies who will take damage at the start of their turn.
A shield and medium armor and no shield spell at level 5+ means getting hit a lot in melee without constitution save proficiency and if you cast spirit gaurdians you will almost certainly be targeted more than you otherwise would.
Dodge action does help and probably would let the spell last a long while, but you are giving up action economy to do that.
If they don't start within it they don't take damage at all unless they enter, which they probably won't. If they do start in it they can usually get to the cleric. Not always but usually.
I agree it is a good spell, just IME it is rare to last more than a couple rounds if you are getting multiple enemeies.
IME it lasts the full duration unless something dramatic happens, like getting hit by dragon breath weapons or some spike damage and having an actually difficult Con save to make.
I think it is rare to go 10 rounds concentrating on something with a mediocre AC within 15 feet of the enemies and not get hit at least 4 times in those 10 rounds.
For example a 5th level Cleric in plate and shield with a 16 Con being targeted by one Goblin per turn will on average keep concentration for 8 rounds. The chance of keeping concentration for 10 rounds is 45%. That is getting attacked only once every round by one very, very weak enemy for this level.
Make that a single CR3 Bearded Devil (still a weak enemy for this level) and it lasts on average 3 rounds. If you dodge every round you will boost that to 7 rounds on average.
That is with AC 20 and a 16 Concentration being targeted by only one either very weak or relatively weak enemy per round.
The DC is typically DC10 for stray damage you take. You shouldn't be losing the spell easily.
If the DC is 10 you will fail 30% of your saves with a 16 constitution. So statistically if it usually lasts its full duration for you, then you are getting damaged less than 4 times in that entire time.
This is why things like Magic missile are so effective against concentration even though each hit does minimal damage you have to save for each one.
And if you are, you were going to lose whatever concentration spell you were using because you're someone getting tagged by tons of enemies from range, taking huge spike damage, or have godawful luck.
If you get attacked by tons of enemies you will likely lose it the very first round even if they are weak for your level. It takes 8 Goblins on average to take down concentration in a single round if they all attack a 20 AC 16 con Cleric. Make it a 16 AC 14 Con Cleric and 4 gobs to do it in a round.
The stats are true regardless of the concentration spell you pick, however most of the good concentration spells of 3rd level and less either boost AC (Sheild of Faith), Give Enemies disadvantage to hit (Protection from Evil and Good), make enemies not attack at all (Calm Emotions) or can be done far from the battle (Bless, Hold Person, Bane, Silence). All of these things make concentration last longer.
As far as good Cleric Concentration spells go the only other good one of 3rd level or less that makes you stay close and does not boost your defenses is Aura of Vitality. You can still be further away than you can with SG though and enemies are less likely to target you for healing allies then for hurting them.
Spirit Guardians melts enemies. And if you're even remotely tactical you can position yourself so that you're AOEing enemies that simp cannot get you consistently or easily, whether adjacent to your martial/frontline allies, which means they can't get to you, or taking advantage of the slowing effect and difficult terain or other local area features. Even if they do, they're taking solid damage round after round for just being there and will die, so by them numbers you getting swarmed cuts down on the number of enemies on the battlefield due to them imploding on contact with your aoe.
It is powerful no doubt and that is why enemies are going to target you, the difficult terrain is good, but if you are damaging enemies it is not far enough to keep them off of you.
You will typically do a lot of damage but unless your DM is playing easy mode it is not going to last a long time against enemies that count.
What I see most often is this: An enemy decides he's going to rush in, gauges he's close enough, but then soon as he's in the aoe takes damage and stops in his tracks because he's now out of movement. That's it for his turn. You'll have your turn where you can react, move/reposition, or attack etc. And then he'll have a chance to go again, but takes another round of damage first. So before any enemies even get to you, they've spent 2 turns to get there and have taken 6d8 damage. It is pretty remarkable how effective that is, by itself, to keeping enemies off your face.
What I see most often is enemies do not voluntarily go in the effect at all.
Either they start their turn inside the effect and go to the Cleric or they see the spirits and stay out of the area and used ranged attacks/AOEs or target someone else that is outside the effect. Obviously there is a lot that goes into that, what specific enemy, how many of them and geography. But the majority of enemies you are going to face at 5th level are not going to normally rush into an area that is filled with spirits especially if they see those spirits damaging their allies.
Also enemies that are not swarms are going to have a reach of 5-15 feet to attack you (assuming they don't have ranged options which most do). So they do not have to cross the entire area, the largest don;t even have to enter the area to attack you in melee. They need to cross between 0 and 10 feet of difficult terrain to hit you depending on their reach. It is possible they are going to run out of movement if they started from far away, but it is not likely I don't think unless their reach is 0 (which usually only applies to swarms). This is a bigger problem if they have to go around someone or something obviously and you usually want to position yourself to make them do that.
This isn't correct. Spirit Guardians isn't difficult terrain. It isnt that moving inide it costs extra movement. No. Being in it HALVES you speed. If you're 10ft outside it, move thise 10 ft, and then enter it. Youve already used 10 of your NOW 15ft move speed. You cannot finish the 10ft move you need to get to the cleric. You only have 5ft left!
Again, if you're going to correct someone please check the rules before you do-so.
Difficult terrain also halves your speed ("you move at half speed in difficult terrain") as spirit guardians does; the difficult terrain rules define half speed as "moving 1 foot in difficult terrain costs 2 feet of speed" so spirit guardians works the same way as that's how half speed works.
The only difference is that since spirit guardians isn't declared as difficult terrain the two could stack to give you quarter speed.
Slightly clipping the edge of spirit guardians doesn't suddenly mean all of your maximum speeds are affected, it just costs twice as much movement to move within the radius.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
This isn't correct. Spirit Guardians isn't difficult terrain. It isnt that moving inide it costs extra movement. No. Being in it HALVES you speed. If you're 10ft outside it, move thise 10 ft, and then enter it. Youve already used 10 of your NOW 15ft move speed. You cannot finish the 10ft move you need to get to the cleric. You only have 5ft left!
Again, if you're going to correct someone please check the rules before you do-so.
Follow your own advice.
Difficult terrain also halves your speed ("you move at half speed in difficult terrain") exactly as the spirit guardians spell does; the difficult terrain rules defines half speed as "moving 1 foot in difficult terrain costs 2 feet of speed" so spirit guardians works the exact same way because that is how half speed works.
Nope. Difficult terrain costs 2 feet per 1 you move, since it says that is what it does. Spirit Guardians, on the other hand, says it halves your speed, so it does that instead. Your movement speed is half. If it was 30, it becomes 15.
Spell do what they say they do, you can't just add to them like this.
Slightly clipping the edge of spirit guardians doesn't suddenly mean all of your maximum speeds are halved.
That's exactly what it does.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Difficult terrain also halves your speed ("you move at half speed in difficult terrain") exactly as the spirit guardians spell does; the difficult terrain rules defines half speed as "moving 1 foot in difficult terrain costs 2 feet of speed" so spirit guardians works the exact same way because that is how half speed works.
Nope. Difficult terrain costs 2 feet per 1 you move, since it says that is what it does. Spirit Guardians, on the other hand, says it halves your speed, so it does that instead. Your movement speed is half. If it was 30, it becomes 15.
The difficult terrain rule is literally in the rules for speed telling you how to handle half speed, you don't get to make up an entirely different rule when you haven't been told to do it any differently.
"You move at half speed in difficult terrain--moving 1 foot in difficult terrain costs 2 feet of speed--"
Vs
"An affected creature's speed is halved in the area"
One says you MOVE at half speed so each foot costs 2. The other says your SPEED is halved.
It's literally the same thing phrased slightly differently, both are half speed in an area, and the rules tell us what to do in that case. I'm starting to realise why I had to unblock you to see your messages.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Difficult terrain also halves your speed ("you move at half speed in difficult terrain") exactly as the spirit guardians spell does; the difficult terrain rules defines half speed as "moving 1 foot in difficult terrain costs 2 feet of speed" so spirit guardians works the exact same way because that is how half speed works.
Nope. Difficult terrain costs 2 feet per 1 you move, since it says that is what it does. Spirit Guardians, on the other hand, says it halves your speed, so it does that instead. Your movement speed is half. If it was 30, it becomes 15.
The difficult terrain rule is literally in the rules for speed telling you how to handle half speed, you don't get to make up an entirely different rule when you haven't been told to do it any differently.
There is no Rule in the PHB for "how to handle half speed". That's a thing you just made up while telling me to not make stuff up. You handle half speed exactly like what those two word mean. Your speed, is halved. There doesn't need to be a Rule for that.
"You move at half speed in difficult terrain--moving 1 foot in difficult terrain costs 2 feet of speed--"
Vs
"An affected creature's speed is halved in the area"
One says you MOVE at half speed so each foot costs 2. The other says your SPEED is halved.
It's literally the same thing phrased slightly differently, both are half speed, and the rules tell us what to do in that case. I'm starting to realise why I had to unblock you to see your messages.
I've already explained this to you, you gotta stop. You're 100% incorrect my man.
One has you MOVE at half the speed and so 1 foot costs 2. The other says your SPEED is halved... and then stops saying anything, ie says nothing about movement costing 2 per 1... because that's not what it does, it instead does exactly what it says, halves your SPEED.
Please stick to discussing what it actually says.
I'll try explaining this again, hopefully this is clearer:
Move, moving, is what you do. It is a verb. An act you take. If you do it at half the normal speed, then your movement is slower, and so you cover less ground with the same energy, or, phrased another way: "You move at half speed in difficult terrain--moving 1 foot in difficult terrain costs 2 feet of speed"
Now, Speed, Movement Speed, is a characteristic of your character, it is written on his sheet. It tells you how fast you can typically go, ie how much distance you can cover when you choose to, so if it gets halved, then how far total your character is capable of moving is cut in half, or, phrased in another way: "An affected creature's speed is halved in the area"
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I know what your argument is, the problem isn't that I don't understand it, the problem is that it's simply wrong according the rules.
"Speed is halved in the area" and "half speed in difficult terrain" are the exact same thing.
The difficult terrain rule is under the rules for speed, it is telling you how to handle half speed within an area, and yet you seem to think it has no relevance to having half speed within an area? Even if you imagine that spirit guardians somehow behaves uniquely differently, it doesn't change the fact that your interpretation is still incorrect.
A character's speed is how far they can move in a turn, if you have a speed of 30 feet and use 10 feet of that speed, then you have 20 feet of speed remaining, so even when it's "halved" you'd still have a full 10 feet of movement to use (enough to still get within 5 feet of the caster). And yet again, this is still assuming a 5 foot reach, no ranged attacks and starting outside the radius (not inside it, which is where the cleric wants you to be), which mean it's far from guaranteed enemies can't hit the caster at all.
But whatever, welcome back to my ignore list, maybe we can try this again in another year; I really dislike being "corrected" when I'm provably not wrong, and I like it even less when someone does it across multiple threads for multiple different rules and is wrong about them all.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I know what your argument is, the problem isn't that I don't understand it, the problem is that it's simply wrong according the rules.
"Speed is halved in the area" and "half speed in difficult terrain" are the exact same thing.
I don't know how to tell you this but you keep ignoring/losing important parts of the sentences you quote. Like you copy and paste, but then somehow "accidentally" delete the part of the sentence that demonstrates you being wrong.
But no worries! I can quote them for you all day. I like providing quotes, see my signature.
One says you MOVE at half speed. The other says it halves your SPEED.
Quote: "You move at half speed in difficult terrain." VS "An affected creature's speed is halved in the area"
Tip: If you have to cut off the relevant part of the rule to make an argument, you're probably wrong.
The difficult terrain rule is under the rules for speed, it is telling you how to handle half speed within an area, and yet you seem to think it has no relevance to having half speed within an area? Even if you imagine that spirit guardians somehow behaves uniquely differently, it doesn't change the fact that your interpretation is still incorrect.
It isn't "my" interpretation. It's just how the rule works. It's really no wonder you have a problem with the spell if you cannot wrap your head around how movement speed works. You're probably just not playing it right at your table, so come away with the impression it isn't as good as it really is.
A character's speed is how far they can move in a turn, if you have a speed of 30 feet and use 10 feet of that speed, then you have 20 feet of speed remaining, so even when it's "halved" you'd still have a full 10 feet of movement to use (enough to still get within 5 feet of the caster). And yet again, this is still assuming a 5 foot reach, no ranged attacks and starting outside the radius (not inside it, which is where the cleric wants you to be), which mean it's far from guaranteed enemies can't hit the caster at all.
That isn't how movement works in 5e my friend. This is starting to feel like a more fundamental rules issue than just spirit guardians for you.
If you have a movement speed of 30ft, and move 20ft, you have 10 ft left to move. BUT if your movement speed was to suddenly drop to 15ft, you now only have negative 5ft left... because your speed is 15ft... So what does that mean? You cannot use that type of movement now. You're done moving. You've used your whole speed this turn. Because you're allowed to move 15ft (which you already have).
Your Speed is an attribute, you write it down on your character sheet. You can find it in stat blocks of creatures. It is a character stat. If you go from 30ft speed to 15ft speed, you're reducing your stat. (Not the remaining amount of move you have left)
How do we know this? Quotes!
"subtract the distance you’ve already moved from the new speed. The result determines how much farther you can move. If the result is 0 or less, you can’t use the new speed during the current move."
You subtract how far you have moved FROM your SPEED to determine how much farther you can go. And, 15-20=-5. So once your speed is halved, in this case, you cannot move.
But whatever, welcome back to my ignore list, maybe we can try this again in another year; I really dislike being "corrected" when I'm provably not wrong, and I like it even less when someone does it across multiple threads for multiple different rules and is wrong about them all.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Lol man, you were more dedicated to this rules tangent that I was.
NGL I started to respond the was like "why am I even doing this".
"Speed is halved in the area" and "half speed in difficult terrain" are notthe exact same thing. And that is why they didn't just say it's difficult terrain.
"Speed is halved in the area" and "half speed in difficult terrain" are notthe exact same thing. And that is why they didn't just say it's difficult terrain.
It literally is, the words having a very slightly different order does not change the meaning at all; it doesn't say difficult terrain because it's not difficult terrain, meaning it can stack, there are other spells that do this, potentially enabling you to reduce a creature's speed by three quarters or more.
I'm not interested in going in circles on this, which is why I've already put Ravnodaus back onto my ignore-list, because as I've already pointed out it doesn't matter if you choose to interpret it differently, it still doesn't limit your speed enough to prevent reaching the cleric if you have at least 20 feet of speed when you enter the area, which was my entire original point.
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Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
, because as I've already pointed out it doesn't matter if you choose to interpret it differently, it still doesn't limit your speed enough to prevent reaching the cleric if you have at least 20 feet of speed when you enter the area, which was my entire original point.
If your speed is 30ft.
And you move 10ft. Entering the effect...
Your speed becomes 15ft. (Halved)
You now only have 5ft left. Because you subtract the distance you have already moved from your speed. 15-10=5.
And cannot reach the cleric who is still 10ft away.
Bodanger, I know. I am a little OCD about responding when people post obviously incorrect rules. Gets me in trouble all the time. It really should be a new topic though, so I'll go make one in the rules&mechanics forum.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
"speed is halved" has a very specific meaning for a D&D character sheet that doesn't mean the same thing as the distance you can travel is at a 1/2 ratio.
"Speed" is an actual d&d stat, and the confusion is that he is treating it interchangeably with the real world definition of speed like "distance/time" It's a lot like how fireball isn't a "spell attack", even though you are attacking something with it and it's spell, because an "attack" in the game has a specific definition.
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idk about that
-All clerics have a shield and at least medium armor.
-If you DM is targeting you that hard because you cast the spell, before it ever even does damage to anything, then I think they would have to explain why those enemies know what spirit guardians is/looks like/does.
-If you do get targeted that hard then you can take the dodge action.
-SG halves speed, and has a 15ft radius, so if something has the standard 30ft movement they cant get into melee if they don't start in 5ft of the radius.
-it does nothing when its cast but you can move yourself right on top of enemies who will take damage at the start of their turn.
Just wanted to slightly correct you on this one; to attack you an enemy only needs to get within reach of you, so they don't need a full 30 feet of movement to pass through the radius, they only need to move 10 feet into it, because if it's 15 feet from you, then that's enough to get within 5 feet of you to attack (and assuming they only have a 5 foot reach).
So to be unable to attack you they'd need to be more than 10 feet from the edge with a standard 30 feet of movement, and be either unable or unwilling to use a ranged attack.
I will say though that enemies don't need to recognise the spell to focus fire on the cleric casting it; it's a swirling mass of spirits, even if they think it's a purely defensive spell it's plausible for them to want to break it. The question isn't whether they could, the question is whether there is a more obvious threat at the time like a Recklessly Raging Barbarian, or a fireballing Wizard or whatever.
I wouldn't say that spirit guardians is either unreliable or super reliable but somewhere in between; if it's a key spell in your arsenal then it's worth investing in War Caster and/or Resilient (Constitution), but even with both of these it can still potentially be stopped by a single hit, it's a numbers game you can weight in your favour but that's just the reality of any concentration spell on someone likely to be taking hits.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
A shield and medium armor and no shield spell at level 5+ means getting hit a lot in melee without constitution save proficiency and if you cast spirit gaurdians you will almost certainly be targeted more than you otherwise would.
Dodge action does help and probably would let the spell last a long while, but you are giving up action economy to do that.
If they don't start within it they don't take damage at all unless they enter, which they probably won't. If they do start in it they can usually get to the cleric. Not always but usually.
I agree it is a good spell, just IME it is rare to last more than a couple rounds if you are getting multiple enemeies.
How long it lasts depends on how the DM is targeting the cleric.
Anything that wants to hit you in melee needs to enter your SG radius, then needs to move the 15ft with only half movement.
If you are fighting dumb monsters and they are focusing the cleric to break concentration like they know how spellcasting works then it's a bit "**** your cleric in particular".
If you are talking about "with out the shield spell" then look at the actual AC.
Even with just +0 medium armor and shield you are looking at up to 19 AC.
With full plate and a shield you are at 20 AC
A wizard or sorcerer with mage armor and 14 dex and casting shield spell you are at 20ac
If you're damaging creatures with spirit guardians then they are already within the 15 foot radius, they can easily get the cleric from there.
As I already pointed out an enemy wouldn't need to move 15 feet to get you, it only needs to move 10 feet into the radius (as a 5 foot reach will cover the last 5). This means that at most a creature needs to spend 10 feet of extra movement, and that's assuming it doesn't have either a longer reach or a ranged attack it can use instead.
Your average Wizard or Sorcerer doesn't want to be anywhere near melee range with enemies, but a Cleric using spirit guardians needs to be to use it effectively, so you're going to get wildly different mileage out of that AC. A ranged Wizard/Sorcerer might only need to use shield once or twice in a fight as they won't have as many attacks heading their way.
Even with an AC of 20 (if your DM lets you obtain expensive plate armour easily), enemies with a +5 to hit only need 15 or better to hit you, meaning 30% of all attacks will hit, and every single one will trigger a concentration saving throw. Often with concentration saving throws it's not the higher damage attacks you have to worry about, it's the high volumes of weaker attacks. And +5 is pretty low for the point at which you might expect to get plate armour, as a +5 is CR4 sort of territory.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
This isn't correct. Spirit Guardians isn't difficult terrain. It isnt that moving inide it costs extra movement. No. Being in it HALVES you speed. If you're 10ft outside it, move thise 10 ft, and then enter it. Youve already used 10 of your NOW 15ft move speed. You cannot finish the 10ft move you need to get to the cleric. You only have 5ft left!
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
IME it lasts the full duration unless something dramatic happens, like getting hit by dragon breath weapons or some spike damage and having an actually difficult Con save to make.
The DC is typically DC10 for stray damage you take. You shouldn't be losing the spell easily. And if you are, you were going to lose whatever concentration spell you were using because you're someone getting tagged by tons of enemies from range, taking huge spike damage, or have godawful luck.
Spirit Guardians melts enemies. And if you're even remotely tactical you can position yourself so that you're AOEing enemies that simply cannot get you consistently or easily, whether adjacent to your martial/frontline allies, which means they can't get to you, or taking advantage of the slowing effect and difficult terain or other local area features. Even if they do, they're taking solid damage round after round for just being there and will die, so by them numbers you getting swarmed cuts down on the number of enemies on the battlefield due to them imploding on contact with your aoe.
What I see most often is this: An enemy decides he's going to rush in, gauges he's close enough, but then soon as he's in the aoe takes damage and stops in his tracks because he's now out of movement. That's it for his turn. You'll have your turn where you can react, move/reposition, or attack etc. And then he'll have a chance to go again, but takes another round of damage first. So before any enemies even get to you, they've spent 2 turns to get there and have taken 6d8 damage. It is pretty remarkable how effective that is, by itself, to keeping enemies off your face.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I think it is rare to go 10 rounds concentrating on something with a mediocre AC within 15 feet of the enemies and not get hit at least 4 times in those 10 rounds.
For example a 5th level Cleric in plate and shield with a 16 Con being targeted by one Goblin per turn will on average keep concentration for 8 rounds. The chance of keeping concentration for 10 rounds is 45%. That is getting attacked only once every round by one very, very weak enemy for this level.
Make that a single CR3 Bearded Devil (still a weak enemy for this level) and it lasts on average 3 rounds. If you dodge every round you will boost that to 7 rounds on average.
That is with AC 20 and a 16 Concentration being targeted by only one either very weak or relatively weak enemy per round.
If the DC is 10 you will fail 30% of your saves with a 16 constitution. So statistically if it usually lasts its full duration for you, then you are getting damaged less than 4 times in that entire time.
This is why things like Magic missile are so effective against concentration even though each hit does minimal damage you have to save for each one.
If you get attacked by tons of enemies you will likely lose it the very first round even if they are weak for your level. It takes 8 Goblins on average to take down concentration in a single round if they all attack a 20 AC 16 con Cleric. Make it a 16 AC 14 Con Cleric and 4 gobs to do it in a round.
The stats are true regardless of the concentration spell you pick, however most of the good concentration spells of 3rd level and less either boost AC (Sheild of Faith), Give Enemies disadvantage to hit (Protection from Evil and Good), make enemies not attack at all (Calm Emotions) or can be done far from the battle (Bless, Hold Person, Bane, Silence). All of these things make concentration last longer.
As far as good Cleric Concentration spells go the only other good one of 3rd level or less that makes you stay close and does not boost your defenses is Aura of Vitality. You can still be further away than you can with SG though and enemies are less likely to target you for healing allies then for hurting them.
It is powerful no doubt and that is why enemies are going to target you, the difficult terrain is good, but if you are damaging enemies it is not far enough to keep them off of you.
You will typically do a lot of damage but unless your DM is playing easy mode it is not going to last a long time against enemies that count.
What I see most often is enemies do not voluntarily go in the effect at all.
Either they start their turn inside the effect and go to the Cleric or they see the spirits and stay out of the area and used ranged attacks/AOEs or target someone else that is outside the effect. Obviously there is a lot that goes into that, what specific enemy, how many of them and geography. But the majority of enemies you are going to face at 5th level are not going to normally rush into an area that is filled with spirits especially if they see those spirits damaging their allies.
Also enemies that are not swarms are going to have a reach of 5-15 feet to attack you (assuming they don't have ranged options which most do). So they do not have to cross the entire area, the largest don;t even have to enter the area to attack you in melee. They need to cross between 0 and 10 feet of difficult terrain to hit you depending on their reach. It is possible they are going to run out of movement if they started from far away, but it is not likely I don't think unless their reach is 0 (which usually only applies to swarms). This is a bigger problem if they have to go around someone or something obviously and you usually want to position yourself to make them do that.
Again, if you're going to correct someone please check the rules before you do-so.
Difficult terrain also halves your speed ("you move at half speed in difficult terrain") as spirit guardians does; the difficult terrain rules define half speed as "moving 1 foot in difficult terrain costs 2 feet of speed" so spirit guardians works the same way as that's how half speed works.
The only difference is that since spirit guardians isn't declared as difficult terrain the two could stack to give you quarter speed.
Slightly clipping the edge of spirit guardians doesn't suddenly mean all of your maximum speeds are affected, it just costs twice as much movement to move within the radius.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Follow your own advice.
Nope. Difficult terrain costs 2 feet per 1 you move, since it says that is what it does. Spirit Guardians, on the other hand, says it halves your speed, so it does that instead. Your movement speed is half. If it was 30, it becomes 15.
Spell do what they say they do, you can't just add to them like this.
That's exactly what it does.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Compare:
"You move at half speed in difficult terrain--moving 1 foot in difficult terrain costs 2 feet of speed--"
Vs
"An affected creature's speed is halved in the area"
One says you MOVE at half speed so each foot costs 2. The other says your SPEED is halved.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The difficult terrain rule is literally in the rules for speed telling you how to handle half speed, you don't get to make up an entirely different rule when you haven't been told to do it any differently.
It's literally the same thing phrased slightly differently, both are half speed in an area, and the rules tell us what to do in that case. I'm starting to realise why I had to unblock you to see your messages.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
There is no Rule in the PHB for "how to handle half speed". That's a thing you just made up while telling me to not make stuff up. You handle half speed exactly like what those two word mean. Your speed, is halved. There doesn't need to be a Rule for that.
I've already explained this to you, you gotta stop. You're 100% incorrect my man.
One has you MOVE at half the speed and so 1 foot costs 2. The other says your SPEED is halved... and then stops saying anything, ie says nothing about movement costing 2 per 1... because that's not what it does, it instead does exactly what it says, halves your SPEED.
Please stick to discussing what it actually says.
I'll try explaining this again, hopefully this is clearer:
Move, moving, is what you do. It is a verb. An act you take. If you do it at half the normal speed, then your movement is slower, and so you cover less ground with the same energy, or, phrased another way: "You move at half speed in difficult terrain--moving 1 foot in difficult terrain costs 2 feet of speed"
Now, Speed, Movement Speed, is a characteristic of your character, it is written on his sheet. It tells you how fast you can typically go, ie how much distance you can cover when you choose to, so if it gets halved, then how far total your character is capable of moving is cut in half, or, phrased in another way: "An affected creature's speed is halved in the area"
Is this helping you at all?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
That isn't how movement works in 5e my friend. This is starting to feel like a more fundamental rules issue than just spirit guardians for you.
If you have a movement speed of 30ft, and move 20ft, you have 10 ft left to move. BUT if your movement speed was to suddenly drop to 15ft, you now only have negative 5ft left... because your speed is 15ft... So what does that mean? You cannot use that type of movement now. You're done moving. You've used your whole speed this turn. Because you're allowed to move 15ft (which you already have).
"subtract the distance you’ve already moved from the new speed. The result determines how much farther you can move. If the result is 0 or less, you can’t use the new speed during the current move."
...
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Lol man, you were more dedicated to this rules tangent that I was.
NGL I started to respond the was like "why am I even doing this".
"Speed is halved in the area" and "half speed in difficult terrain" are not the exact same thing. And that is why they didn't just say it's difficult terrain.
It literally is, the words having a very slightly different order does not change the meaning at all; it doesn't say difficult terrain because it's not difficult terrain, meaning it can stack, there are other spells that do this, potentially enabling you to reduce a creature's speed by three quarters or more.
I'm not interested in going in circles on this, which is why I've already put Ravnodaus back onto my ignore-list, because as I've already pointed out it doesn't matter if you choose to interpret it differently, it still doesn't limit your speed enough to prevent reaching the cleric if you have at least 20 feet of speed when you enter the area, which was my entire original point.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
If your speed is 30ft.
And you move 10ft. Entering the effect...
Your speed becomes 15ft. (Halved)
You now only have 5ft left. Because you subtract the distance you have already moved from your speed. 15-10=5.
And cannot reach the cleric who is still 10ft away.
Bodanger, I know. I am a little OCD about responding when people post obviously incorrect rules. Gets me in trouble all the time. It really should be a new topic though, so I'll go make one in the rules&mechanics forum.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
No no, I get it man.
And you are doing a great job of explaining it.
"speed is halved" has a very specific meaning for a D&D character sheet that doesn't mean the same thing as the distance you can travel is at a 1/2 ratio.
"Speed" is an actual d&d stat, and the confusion is that he is treating it interchangeably with the real world definition of speed like "distance/time"
It's a lot like how fireball isn't a "spell attack", even though you are attacking something with it and it's spell, because an "attack" in the game has a specific definition.