Playing a life cleric in a campaign. We are level 6. In general, wondering if it is better for a cleric to increase constitution for better save throws for concentration spells or to raise wisdom for better attacks?
I have built towards save throws - level 5 cleric and one druid. Planning on taking level 2 in druid and circle of stars so I can use the dragon con saving ability. Took Resilient for feat at level 4, so have a +6 currently for con saves. We have only played 3 nights, but I haven't been hit yet with an attack and wonder if I should have gone wisdom increases instead. I have spirit guardians now, so I plan on moving closer to combat while using it, so perhaps will be hit more often.
Curious what people generally build towards. Likely - either is fine depending on play style.
I never compromise on my ability to stick my spells. I'd go wis over con, and eventually patch with a feat like warcaster.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Agree priority should be Wis over con. I do however think that "eventually" leads to resiliant con rather than warcaster most of the time:
If getting a feat to boost con saves at level 8 there is little difference between Warcaster and Resiliant. A +3 is not as good as advantage but as soon as you hit level 9 that advantage is almost eliminated and warcaster only helps with "Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage." If a spell such as sleet storm is cast on you Warcaster doesn't help you mantain concentration, not only that but Resiiant also helps with cn saves for things like poison effects that are very common.
Warcaster also means you do not need a free hand to cast spells, but itf this is a issue it is usually an issue from level 1. You have a shield in one hand a sword in the other and you want ot cast spells with somantic components but not material components. Usual solution here is to go vHuman or custom linage and take warcaster at level 1. Even if you are not affect by a free hand if you get a feat at level 1 warcaster is a great option because at that level it helps con saves much more than resiliant.
Resiliant also boost your can by 1, it that might mean nothing my is self but I am a sucker for taking skill expert as my next ASI.
Warcaster can be useful if you are a melee type build that is liable to get a lot of op attacks and would gain a lot by replacing a weapon attack with a spell.
If Spirit Guardians is your primary concentration effect than you need Con more than you need wisdom. Half damage fixes a ton of issues for average damage, and as soon as you get Spirit Guardians going you immediately become a huge target. I am currently playing a cleric with both warcaster and resilient con, and I have not lost concentration.
My daughter meanwhile went max wisdom and has no concentration protection and had the worst case scenario of losing Spirit Guardians before anyone take damage twice in a single session.
This is my plan - high Con saves. Game is canceled for tonight, so will be another two weeks before I get to put this into practice much. My hope is use spirit guardians and move into combat.
Defensive: You turn it on and you work from the backline with cantrips and healing spells. Here the Guardians are meant to dissuade others from reaching you and others in your bubble (wizards, sorcerers). In a defensive mode you may not need as high a con save since you won't be taking as many attacks, use cover and the dodge action often to prevent ranged attacks from hitting you.
Offensive: You turn it on and go after ground troops. You use your high AC to avoid getting hit, but you aren't dodging you are walking up to people and hitting them. When you trap someone in the guardians they either can hit you or try and run away. The more folks you get the more damage. You become the focus of the encounter as your walking AOE damages 4, 5, 6 enemies a turn. You can expect a lot of attacks and a lot of concentration checks. In offensive mode you are going for quantity not quality. So the longer you maintain the spell the better and with half damage being your floor wisdom does not need to be the priority. So if you take resilient and warcaster you can come close to being concentration check proof. The bad part here is your saves on things like Hold Person, toll the dead, etc. suffer. With the offensive approach it is better to think of yourself as a walking AOE that needs to be maintained and less like a caster. If you do the math higher wisdom only makes minimal changes in your damage profile, while maintaing the spell for more turns and moving to get more enemies in becomes more and more valuable.
I think the biggest thing to understand about a spirit guardians build is that you focus on constitution as the best way for that spell to stick. You could have a 10 wisdom and your damage would keep happening. If you have nothing to boost your con save you can get hit before anyone takes damage.
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Playing a life cleric in a campaign. We are level 6. In general, wondering if it is better for a cleric to increase constitution for better save throws for concentration spells or to raise wisdom for better attacks?
I have built towards save throws - level 5 cleric and one druid. Planning on taking level 2 in druid and circle of stars so I can use the dragon con saving ability. Took Resilient for feat at level 4, so have a +6 currently for con saves. We have only played 3 nights, but I haven't been hit yet with an attack and wonder if I should have gone wisdom increases instead. I have spirit guardians now, so I plan on moving closer to combat while using it, so perhaps will be hit more often.
Curious what people generally build towards. Likely - either is fine depending on play style.
I never compromise on my ability to stick my spells. I'd go wis over con, and eventually patch with a feat like warcaster.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Agree priority should be Wis over con. I do however think that "eventually" leads to resiliant con rather than warcaster most of the time:
If getting a feat to boost con saves at level 8 there is little difference between Warcaster and Resiliant. A +3 is not as good as advantage but as soon as you hit level 9 that advantage is almost eliminated and warcaster only helps with "Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain your concentration on a spell when you take damage." If a spell such as sleet storm is cast on you Warcaster doesn't help you mantain concentration, not only that but Resiiant also helps with cn saves for things like poison effects that are very common.
Warcaster also means you do not need a free hand to cast spells, but itf this is a issue it is usually an issue from level 1. You have a shield in one hand a sword in the other and you want ot cast spells with somantic components but not material components. Usual solution here is to go vHuman or custom linage and take warcaster at level 1. Even if you are not affect by a free hand if you get a feat at level 1 warcaster is a great option because at that level it helps con saves much more than resiliant.
Resiliant also boost your can by 1, it that might mean nothing my is self but I am a sucker for taking skill expert as my next ASI.
Warcaster can be useful if you are a melee type build that is liable to get a lot of op attacks and would gain a lot by replacing a weapon attack with a spell.
If Spirit Guardians is your primary concentration effect than you need Con more than you need wisdom. Half damage fixes a ton of issues for average damage, and as soon as you get Spirit Guardians going you immediately become a huge target. I am currently playing a cleric with both warcaster and resilient con, and I have not lost concentration.
My daughter meanwhile went max wisdom and has no concentration protection and had the worst case scenario of losing Spirit Guardians before anyone take damage twice in a single session.
This is my plan - high Con saves. Game is canceled for tonight, so will be another two weeks before I get to put this into practice much. My hope is use spirit guardians and move into combat.
Wisdom over CON since your spells are WIS, but you can get resilience feat for CON saves later.
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There is really two ways to use spirit guardians:
Defensive: You turn it on and you work from the backline with cantrips and healing spells. Here the Guardians are meant to dissuade others from reaching you and others in your bubble (wizards, sorcerers). In a defensive mode you may not need as high a con save since you won't be taking as many attacks, use cover and the dodge action often to prevent ranged attacks from hitting you.
Offensive: You turn it on and go after ground troops. You use your high AC to avoid getting hit, but you aren't dodging you are walking up to people and hitting them. When you trap someone in the guardians they either can hit you or try and run away. The more folks you get the more damage. You become the focus of the encounter as your walking AOE damages 4, 5, 6 enemies a turn. You can expect a lot of attacks and a lot of concentration checks. In offensive mode you are going for quantity not quality. So the longer you maintain the spell the better and with half damage being your floor wisdom does not need to be the priority. So if you take resilient and warcaster you can come close to being concentration check proof. The bad part here is your saves on things like Hold Person, toll the dead, etc. suffer. With the offensive approach it is better to think of yourself as a walking AOE that needs to be maintained and less like a caster. If you do the math higher wisdom only makes minimal changes in your damage profile, while maintaing the spell for more turns and moving to get more enemies in becomes more and more valuable.
I think the biggest thing to understand about a spirit guardians build is that you focus on constitution as the best way for that spell to stick. You could have a 10 wisdom and your damage would keep happening. If you have nothing to boost your con save you can get hit before anyone takes damage.