The description seems wrong to me for the spell. I know it only has effect when the creature enters the area on their turn or starts their turn there but that isn't how I read the spell description.
An affected creature's speed is halved in the area, and when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a Wisdom saving throw.
Seems to me, the underlined part means that when the creature enters the spell effect area. Thus, if my cleric has the spell on, and I move close to the creature and the field surrounds them, they should have to do a wisdom saving throw. Specifically - "on a turn". It doesn't say on the creatures turn. It should effect the creature on my turn when I move them into the field. If it is as intended that only on the creatures turn do they have to make a saving throw, then the wording should be changed. creature enters the area for the first time on its turn.
I convinced my DM to allow on my turn when the creature enters for the first time. Curious what people think.
Consensus among the people I play for is for the creature to enter the area the creature needs to move not the area of spirit guardians. If your cleric moves close to a creature they are not affected (at least until the start of their turn) if they move into your area on any turn (for example if your cleric has the telekinetic feat and successfully pulls them into your spirit guardians) it is affected.
I agree with the OP’s take, you can move the area to the creature. At that point, it has “entered the area.” And that’s one of the reasons it specifies it only works the first time, so the cleric can’t hop back and forth and hit the enemy multiple times.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The spell area has moved to enclose them. They have not entered the spell effect.
Ask yourself: Which did the moving. The effected area, or the creature?
If the creature moved into the area, they entered it. Triggers.
If the area moved onto the creature, they were encapsulated by it. Doesn't trigger.
This is establish RAW, RAI, and if you ever try it the other way and realise how stupidly OP it is, RAF too.
Agree. By RAW, it works that way and it was how we had been using it. But I don't get that interpretation by reading the description. It still reads to me as it can be triggered, one time, by the cleric moving the aura onto a creature. I don't read it as being able to be done repeatedly, but the first time part suggests it can work this way.
We are going to use my interpretation on our next weekly meeting and we shall see if it becomes over powered.
The spell area has moved to enclose them. They have not entered the spell effect.
Ask yourself: Which did the moving. The effected area, or the creature?
If the creature moved into the area, they entered it. Triggers.
If the area moved onto the creature, they were encapsulated by it. Doesn't trigger.
This is establish RAW, RAI, and if you ever try it the other way and realise how stupidly OP it is, RAF too.
Agree. By RAW, it works that way and it was how we had been using it. But I don't get that interpretation by reading the description. It still reads to me as it can be triggered, one time, by the cleric moving the aura onto a creature. I don't read it as being able to be done repeatedly, but the first time part suggests it can work this way.
We are going to use my interpretation on our next weekly meeting and we shall see if it becomes over powered.
It is 100% overpowered.
You can easily shift around forcing it to hit most/all combatants on the map. Any effect that lets you move off your turn now lets you trigger spirit guardians additional times on multiple enemies, and it still also zaps them the normal amount, on their turns too.
It is undeniably OP to homebrew it to work that way. It is already the best aoe spell (imo) in tier 1 or tier 2 play, and this version of yours doubles its effectiveness from there. If power balance is something your table cares about it'll end up being a mistake.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Where is the word "encapsulated" used in RAW? Seems like you're just creating a term there.
The rules books do not use the word encapsulated. Ravnodous was using that word to indicated that if aura enters the space of a creature the creature does not enter the aura as to enter something implies movement by the thing ddoing the entering.
While I think there is some ambiguity in the wording as RAW I agree with Ravnodous that allowing the cleric to enter apply 2 lots of SG damage per round simply by moving would be completely broken
A party set up for this could have the cleric move from one clump of enemies to another every turn:
a battle master using manouvering attack
a druids wildfire spirit using fiery teleportation
a glamor bard using mantle of inspiration
a conjuration wizard using binign transposition
A character with telekenisis
It would often be worth hitting the cleric in order to move him for example using repelling blast, grasping vine or open hand technique
Oh, I also agree there’s ambiguity. But you can’t just invent a term and say it’s RAW.
Personally, I’d rule it works, as I said. You are now in the area, so you have entered it, be it actively or passively. I don’t know how you get into a thing without entering it. But, I agree another interpretation is possible. As far as exploits, that just seems like strategy. Sure, a party could set up their entire party around one spell, but I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.
The spell area has moved to enclose them. They have not entered the spell effect.
Ask yourself: Which did the moving. The effected area, or the creature?
If the creature moved into the area, they entered it. Triggers.
If the area moved onto the creature, they were encapsulated by it. Doesn't trigger.
This is establish RAW, RAI, and if you ever try it the other way and realise how stupidly OP it is, RAF too.
Where is the word "encapsulated" used in RAW? Seems like you're just creating a term there.
Nothing in the game triggers when the aoe moves onto someone, so you'll not find a game term for the thing that doesn't happen in the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
It is pretty easy to imagine cases which demonstrate how broken this is. Imagine a Druid 8/Cleric 5. They cast Spirit Guardians, and then the party Wizard makes them Invisible. The Druid Wild Shapes to a high speed flying form - say Giant Eagle - and flies low over an approaching army. The Druid could conceivably cause 192 opponents to 'enter' the AoE per round. That would be 576d8 damage per round. I am pretty sure that it was exactly these sorts of cases that led the designers to require the opponents to move into the the AoE rather than have the AoE move on to them.
I would add that Spirit Guardians is already very powerful, and people do create builds around it together with forced movement, so there isn't any need to make it even more powerful.
Does moonbeam deal damage when you cast it? What about when its effect moves onto a creature?
The answer to both questions is no. Here’s some elaboration on that answer.
Some spells and other game features create an area of effect that does something when a creature enters that area for the first time on a turn or when a creature starts its turn in that area. On the turn when you cast such a spell, you’re primarily setting up hurt for your foes on later turns. Moonbeam, for example, creates a beam of light that can damage a creature who enters the beam or who starts its turn in the beam.
Here are some spells with the same timing as moonbeam for their areas of effect:
Reading the description of any of those spells, you might wonder whether a creature is considered to be entering the spell’s area of effect if the area is created on the creature’s space. And if the area of effect can be moved—as the beam of moonbeam can—does moving it into a creature’s space count as the creature entering the area? Our design intent for such spells is this: a creature enters the area of effect when the creature passes into it. Creating the area of effect on the creature or moving it onto the creature doesn’t count. If the creature is still in the area at the start of its turn, it is subjected to the area’s effect.
Entering such an area of effect needn’t be voluntary, unless a spell says otherwise. You can, therefore, hurl a creature into the area with a spell like thunderwave. We consider that clever play, not an imbalance, so hurl away! Keep in mind, however, that a creature is subjected to such an area of effect only the first time it enters the area on a turn. You can’t move a creature in and out of it to damage it over and over again on the same turn.
In summary, a spell like moonbeam affects a creature when the creature passes into the spell’s area of effect and when the creature starts its turn there. You’re essentially creating a hazard on the battlefield.
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Curious what people think>
The description seems wrong to me for the spell. I know it only has effect when the creature enters the area on their turn or starts their turn there but that isn't how I read the spell description.
An affected creature's speed is halved in the area, and when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there, it must make a Wisdom saving throw.
Seems to me, the underlined part means that when the creature enters the spell effect area. Thus, if my cleric has the spell on, and I move close to the creature and the field surrounds them, they should have to do a wisdom saving throw. Specifically - "on a turn". It doesn't say on the creatures turn. It should effect the creature on my turn when I move them into the field. If it is as intended that only on the creatures turn do they have to make a saving throw, then the wording should be changed. creature enters the area for the first time on its turn.
I convinced my DM to allow on my turn when the creature enters for the first time. Curious what people think.
Consensus among the people I play for is for the creature to enter the area the creature needs to move not the area of spirit guardians. If your cleric moves close to a creature they are not affected (at least until the start of their turn) if they move into your area on any turn (for example if your cleric has the telekinetic feat and successfully pulls them into your spirit guardians) it is affected.
I agree with the OP’s take, you can move the area to the creature. At that point, it has “entered the area.” And that’s one of the reasons it specifies it only works the first time, so the cleric can’t hop back and forth and hit the enemy multiple times.
The spell area has moved to enclose them. They have not entered the spell effect.
Ask yourself: Which did the moving. The effected area, or the creature?
If the creature moved into the area, they entered it. Triggers.
If the area moved onto the creature, they were encapsulated by it. Doesn't trigger.
This is establish RAW, RAI, and if you ever try it the other way and realise how stupidly OP it is, RAF too.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Agree. By RAW, it works that way and it was how we had been using it. But I don't get that interpretation by reading the description. It still reads to me as it can be triggered, one time, by the cleric moving the aura onto a creature. I don't read it as being able to be done repeatedly, but the first time part suggests it can work this way.
We are going to use my interpretation on our next weekly meeting and we shall see if it becomes over powered.
It is 100% overpowered.
You can easily shift around forcing it to hit most/all combatants on the map. Any effect that lets you move off your turn now lets you trigger spirit guardians additional times on multiple enemies, and it still also zaps them the normal amount, on their turns too.
It is undeniably OP to homebrew it to work that way. It is already the best aoe spell (imo) in tier 1 or tier 2 play, and this version of yours doubles its effectiveness from there. If power balance is something your table cares about it'll end up being a mistake.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Where is the word "encapsulated" used in RAW? Seems like you're just creating a term there.
The rules books do not use the word encapsulated. Ravnodous was using that word to indicated that if aura enters the space of a creature the creature does not enter the aura as to enter something implies movement by the thing ddoing the entering.
While I think there is some ambiguity in the wording as RAW I agree with Ravnodous that allowing the cleric to enter apply 2 lots of SG damage per round simply by moving would be completely broken
A party set up for this could have the cleric move from one clump of enemies to another every turn:
It would often be worth hitting the cleric in order to move him for example using repelling blast, grasping vine or open hand technique
Oh, I also agree there’s ambiguity. But you can’t just invent a term and say it’s RAW.
Personally, I’d rule it works, as I said. You are now in the area, so you have entered it, be it actively or passively. I don’t know how you get into a thing without entering it. But, I agree another interpretation is possible. As far as exploits, that just seems like strategy. Sure, a party could set up their entire party around one spell, but I’m not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.
Nothing in the game triggers when the aoe moves onto someone, so you'll not find a game term for the thing that doesn't happen in the game.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Well, I would argue that this does. So, there's that.
It is pretty easy to imagine cases which demonstrate how broken this is. Imagine a Druid 8/Cleric 5. They cast Spirit Guardians, and then the party Wizard makes them Invisible. The Druid Wild Shapes to a high speed flying form - say Giant Eagle - and flies low over an approaching army. The Druid could conceivably cause 192 opponents to 'enter' the AoE per round. That would be 576d8 damage per round. I am pretty sure that it was exactly these sorts of cases that led the designers to require the opponents to move into the the AoE rather than have the AoE move on to them.
I would add that Spirit Guardians is already very powerful, and people do create builds around it together with forced movement, so there isn't any need to make it even more powerful.
This is covered in the Sage Advice Compendium.
Does moonbeam deal damage when you cast it? What about when its effect moves onto a creature?
The answer to both questions is no. Here’s some elaboration on that answer.
Some spells and other game features create an area of effect that does something when a creature enters that area for the first time on a turn or when a creature starts its turn in that area. On the turn when you cast such a spell, you’re primarily setting up hurt for your foes on later turns. Moonbeam, for example, creates a beam of light that can damage a creature who enters the beam or who starts its turn in the beam.
Here are some spells with the same timing as moonbeam for their areas of effect:
blade barrier
cloudkill
cloud of daggers
Evard’s black tentacles
forbiddance
moonbeam
sleet storm
spirit guardians
Reading the description of any of those spells, you might wonder whether a creature is considered to be entering the spell’s area of effect if the area is created on the creature’s space. And if the area of effect can be moved—as the beam of moonbeam can—does moving it into a creature’s space count as the creature entering the area? Our design intent for such spells is this: a creature enters the area of effect when the creature passes into it. Creating the area of effect on the creature or moving it onto the creature doesn’t count. If the creature is still in the area at the start of its turn, it is subjected to the area’s effect.
Entering such an area of effect needn’t be voluntary, unless a spell says otherwise. You can, therefore, hurl a creature into the area with a spell like thunderwave. We consider that clever play, not an imbalance, so hurl away! Keep in mind, however, that a creature is subjected to such an area of effect only the first time it enters the area on a turn. You can’t move a creature in and out of it to damage it over and over again on the same turn.
In summary, a spell like moonbeam affects a creature when the creature passes into the spell’s area of effect and when the creature starts its turn there. You’re essentially creating a hazard on the battlefield.