A friend at my table is playing one, which got me looking at my hypothetical build. I’m not one to play a bunch of feats; I just play one to even out my ability scores. These seem to be the top choices. I can either make my Wisdom 17 and go with War Caster or my Constitution a 17 and go with Resilient. Both do similar things for my concentration, but if I want to max out both stats I need to just pick one.
My secondary question is whether or not a priest can function without War Caster and use a shield? Does it just drop it when it needs to heal? Is it more of a melee/tank build without War Caster? Let me know!
One of the types of Holy Symbol that a Cleric can use as a spellcasting focus is an "Emblem", which can be part of a shield, so as long as you use one of those you don't need to drop your shield to cast spells that have a material component, War Caster or not. Where War Caster makes a difference is spells that have a somatic component but don't have a material component. Cure Wounds falls into this category but Healing Word doesn't, so your mileage may vary.
That said, War Caster provides advantage on Concentration saves while Resilient provides proficiency on them; advantage is, on average, a little better than +3, so until you get to level 9 it's better on average than proficiency. Plus, the ability to cast a spell as an opportunity attack can help you out a lot, especially if you are not using weapons much.
All in all, I feel like War Caster is the better choice if you're planning to be on the front lines a lot.
I usually suggest resilient con. Warcaster is great when it happens, but resilient helps with all of your con saves, not just concentration saves. Though it can be campaign dependent. Are you casting a lot of concentration spells, and are you getting attacked when you do? Are you in melee enough to get much benefit from the reaction cantrip? And the big one, do you really bother with spell components? From your question, it seems like maybe you do, but I know a lot of tables just kind of hand wave them.
So if you’re a melee type, especially in a component campaign then warcaster makes more sense. But for the more caster-style cleric, I think resilient can be better.
i mean, the only main concentration spell is Spiritual Weapon, but I’m usually casting Toll of the Dead more than fighting in melee, and I’ve taken Potent Spellcasting accordingly. Granted, my strength is still 15 in case I want to wear heavy armor, but still…
I guess I’ll have to think about it even longer. Lol. Still, thank you all the same!
In general, I would suggest keeping your Wisdom as the highest stat you have. You seem to be playing as mostly a caster, so keeping the high Wisdom will make your spell save DC higher, which leads to better mileage out of your spells. War Caster bumps your Wisdom, so I would probably prioritize that one.
If you are really wanting to nail those concentration saving throws, you could consider taking both War Caster and Resilient. You could start with your stats at 15/10/14(+1)/8/15(+2)/8, then for your feat choices take War Caster (Wisdom), ASI (+2 Wisdom), and Resilient (+1 Constitution). With proficiency and advantage on your concentration checks, you will rarely lose concentration on your spells.
In general, I would suggest keeping your Wisdom as the highest stat you have. You seem to be playing as mostly a caster, so keeping the high Wisdom will make your spell save DC higher, which leads to better mileage out of your spells. War Caster bumps your Wisdom, so I would probably prioritize that one.
If you are really wanting to nail those concentration saving throws, you could consider taking both War Caster and Resilient. You could start with your stats at 15/10/14(+1)/8/15(+2)/8, then for your feat choices take War Caster (Wisdom), ASI (+2 Wisdom), and Resilient (+1 Constitution). With proficiency and advantage on your concentration checks, you will rarely lose concentration on your spells.
Well, it would keep my Con from getting to 20, but at least it keeps it even and my saves will be good. I might consider going this route instead! Thank you for the suggestion!
I usually recommend resilient con over war caster for anyone going beyond level 9 especially in the 2024 rules for the reasons people have said above. It does better at keeping concentration in the higher levels, it helps with con save, you don't really benefit from the reaction spell that often. I've only had that come up twice in 15 years of playing DND. I'd like to add something often overlooked that makes a huge difference. The 2024 counterspell causes the target to make a con save or have their spell dissipate. Resilient con helps with that while war caster does not. If you don't need war caster to perform somatic components resilient con is generally better.
War Caster Advantage on concentration apply to casting spells since its considered the same , so if u have war caster and are targeted by counterspell it should apply the advantage to it. At least that my understanding as far as I remember.
War Caster Advantage on concentration apply to casting spells since its considered the same , so if u have war caster and are targeted by counterspell it should apply the advantage to it. At least that my understanding as far as I remember.
War caster only gives advantage on concentration checks. The new counterspell forces a constitution save. War caster only applies to concentration checks.
War Caster Advantage on concentration apply to casting spells since its considered the same , so if u have war caster and are targeted by counterspell it should apply the advantage to it. At least that my understanding as far as I remember.
War Caster only provides advantage on Constitution saving throws to maintain Concentration. The 2024 version of Counterspell does require a Constitution saving throw, but it's not to maintain Concentration, so War Caster doesn't apply.
Resilient provides proficiency on all saving throws with the selected ability, so it would apply.
War Caster Advantage on concentration apply to casting spells since its considered the same , so if u have war caster and are targeted by counterspell it should apply the advantage to it. At least that my understanding as far as I remember.
War caster only gives advantage on concentration checks. The new counterspell forces a constitution save. War caster only applies to concentration checks.
A Concentration check IS a Constitution Saving Throw. "If you take damage, you must succeed on a Constitution saving throw to maintain Concentration."
Interestingly, while the 2014 War Caster feat specified that you have advantage on Constitution Saving throws you make to maintain concentration when you take damage, the rules for the 2024 version of War Caster says "You have Advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain Concentration." It's no longer limited to damage.
However, I think you are correct that it does not apply to Counterspell because Counterspell is interrupting the process of trying to cast, it isn't trying to disrupt concentration.
Wow! I had no idea the new counterspell worked like that! I get what you mean about rarely using a reaction spell on this kind of build too. I use War Caster religiously on my Fighter/Warlock so he can use a shield and sword while casting, but the reaction eldritch blasts don’t hurt at all, whereas in this build you’d be better off just meleeing.
I honestly didn’t expect such a community reply from my question. It makes me proud to play this game. Thanks everyone!
War Caster Advantage on concentration apply to casting spells since its considered the same , so if u have war caster and are targeted by counterspell it should apply the advantage to it. At least that my understanding as far as I remember.
War caster only gives advantage on concentration checks. The new counterspell forces a constitution save. War caster only applies to concentration checks.
A Concentration check IS a Constitution Saving Throw. "If you take damage, you must succeed on a Constitution saving throw to maintain Concentration."
Interestingly, while the 2014 War Caster feat specified that you have advantage on Constitution Saving throws you make to maintain concentration when you take damage, the rules for the 2024 version of War Caster says "You have Advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain Concentration." It's no longer limited to damage.
However, I think you are correct that it does not apply to Counterspell because Counterspell is interrupting the process of trying to cast, it isn't trying to disrupt concentration.
You said it yourself war caster only affects con saves to "maintain Concentration". That distinction is indicated by calling those con saves to maintain concentration, concentration checks. Counterspell does not affect concentration or say that it is a concentration check therefore war caster does not apply. This is a classic example of a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square.
You said it yourself war caster only affects con saves to "maintain Concentration". That distinction is indicated by calling those con saves to maintain concentration, concentration checks. Counterspell does not affect concentration or say that it is a concentration check therefore war caster does not apply. This is a classic example of a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square.
"Concentration check" is player terminology, it's not used anywhere by the game. The actual mechanic is a Constitution saving throw. There is no distinction between a "Concentration check" and a "Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration," they describe the exact same thing. That's why I linked the definition of Concentration.
You are correct that Counterspell does not affect concentration, and also correct that it does not interact with War Caster - but not because Counterspell does not mention a concentration check. Nothing in the rules uses the term "concentration check".
You said it yourself war caster only affects con saves to "maintain Concentration". That distinction is indicated by calling those con saves to maintain concentration, concentration checks. Counterspell does not affect concentration or say that it is a concentration check therefore war caster does not apply. This is a classic example of a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square.
"Concentration check" is player terminology, it's not used anywhere by the game. The actual mechanic is a Constitution saving throw. There is no distinction between a "Concentration check" and a "Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration," they describe the exact same thing. That's why I linked the definition of Concentration.
You are correct that Counterspell does not affect concentration, and also correct that it does not interact with War Caster - but not because Counterspell does not mention a concentration check. Nothing in the rules uses the term "concentration check".
We agree about the interaction so way to just repeat what I said. The term that players use, "concentration check", is just a con save to maintain concentration like I said in the post you quoted. I didn't claim that it was in the rules, I was explaining the difference in terms I used. This is a common term, so there is no purpose to your pedantry.
A friend at my table is playing one, which got me looking at my hypothetical build. I’m not one to play a bunch of feats; I just play one to even out my ability scores. These seem to be the top choices. I can either make my Wisdom 17 and go with War Caster or my Constitution a 17 and go with Resilient. Both do similar things for my concentration, but if I want to max out both stats I need to just pick one.
My secondary question is whether or not a priest can function without War Caster and use a shield? Does it just drop it when it needs to heal? Is it more of a melee/tank build without War Caster? Let me know!
One of the types of Holy Symbol that a Cleric can use as a spellcasting focus is an "Emblem", which can be part of a shield, so as long as you use one of those you don't need to drop your shield to cast spells that have a material component, War Caster or not. Where War Caster makes a difference is spells that have a somatic component but don't have a material component. Cure Wounds falls into this category but Healing Word doesn't, so your mileage may vary.
That said, War Caster provides advantage on Concentration saves while Resilient provides proficiency on them; advantage is, on average, a little better than +3, so until you get to level 9 it's better on average than proficiency. Plus, the ability to cast a spell as an opportunity attack can help you out a lot, especially if you are not using weapons much.
All in all, I feel like War Caster is the better choice if you're planning to be on the front lines a lot.
pronouns: he/she/they
Interesting. Okay, I’ll take it under advisement. Thanks!
I usually suggest resilient con. Warcaster is great when it happens, but resilient helps with all of your con saves, not just concentration saves. Though it can be campaign dependent. Are you casting a lot of concentration spells, and are you getting attacked when you do? Are you in melee enough to get much benefit from the reaction cantrip? And the big one, do you really bother with spell components? From your question, it seems like maybe you do, but I know a lot of tables just kind of hand wave them.
So if you’re a melee type, especially in a component campaign then warcaster makes more sense. But for the more caster-style cleric, I think resilient can be better.
Oh wow! I hadn’t considered all of that!
i mean, the only main concentration spell is Spiritual Weapon, but I’m usually casting Toll of the Dead more than fighting in melee, and I’ve taken Potent Spellcasting accordingly. Granted, my strength is still 15 in case I want to wear heavy armor, but still…
I guess I’ll have to think about it even longer. Lol. Still, thank you all the same!
In general, I would suggest keeping your Wisdom as the highest stat you have. You seem to be playing as mostly a caster, so keeping the high Wisdom will make your spell save DC higher, which leads to better mileage out of your spells. War Caster bumps your Wisdom, so I would probably prioritize that one.
If you are really wanting to nail those concentration saving throws, you could consider taking both War Caster and Resilient. You could start with your stats at 15/10/14(+1)/8/15(+2)/8, then for your feat choices take War Caster (Wisdom), ASI (+2 Wisdom), and Resilient (+1 Constitution). With proficiency and advantage on your concentration checks, you will rarely lose concentration on your spells.
Well, it would keep my Con from getting to 20, but at least it keeps it even and my saves will be good. I might consider going this route instead! Thank you for the suggestion!
I usually recommend resilient con over war caster for anyone going beyond level 9 especially in the 2024 rules for the reasons people have said above. It does better at keeping concentration in the higher levels, it helps with con save, you don't really benefit from the reaction spell that often. I've only had that come up twice in 15 years of playing DND. I'd like to add something often overlooked that makes a huge difference. The 2024 counterspell causes the target to make a con save or have their spell dissipate. Resilient con helps with that while war caster does not. If you don't need war caster to perform somatic components resilient con is generally better.
War Caster Advantage on concentration apply to casting spells since its considered the same , so if u have war caster and are targeted by counterspell it should apply the advantage to it. At least that my understanding as far as I remember.
War caster only gives advantage on concentration checks. The new counterspell forces a constitution save. War caster only applies to concentration checks.
War Caster only provides advantage on Constitution saving throws to maintain Concentration. The 2024 version of Counterspell does require a Constitution saving throw, but it's not to maintain Concentration, so War Caster doesn't apply.
Resilient provides proficiency on all saving throws with the selected ability, so it would apply.
pronouns: he/she/they
A Concentration check IS a Constitution Saving Throw. "If you take damage, you must succeed on a Constitution saving throw to maintain Concentration."
Interestingly, while the 2014 War Caster feat specified that you have advantage on Constitution Saving throws you make to maintain concentration when you take damage, the rules for the 2024 version of War Caster says "You have Advantage on Constitution saving throws that you make to maintain Concentration." It's no longer limited to damage.
However, I think you are correct that it does not apply to Counterspell because Counterspell is interrupting the process of trying to cast, it isn't trying to disrupt concentration.
Wow! I had no idea the new counterspell worked like that! I get what you mean about rarely using a reaction spell on this kind of build too. I use War Caster religiously on my Fighter/Warlock so he can use a shield and sword while casting, but the reaction eldritch blasts don’t hurt at all, whereas in this build you’d be better off just meleeing.
I honestly didn’t expect such a community reply from my question. It makes me proud to play this game. Thanks everyone!
You said it yourself war caster only affects con saves to "maintain Concentration". That distinction is indicated by calling those con saves to maintain concentration, concentration checks. Counterspell does not affect concentration or say that it is a concentration check therefore war caster does not apply. This is a classic example of a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square.
"Concentration check" is player terminology, it's not used anywhere by the game. The actual mechanic is a Constitution saving throw. There is no distinction between a "Concentration check" and a "Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration," they describe the exact same thing. That's why I linked the definition of Concentration.
You are correct that Counterspell does not affect concentration, and also correct that it does not interact with War Caster - but not because Counterspell does not mention a concentration check. Nothing in the rules uses the term "concentration check".
We agree about the interaction so way to just repeat what I said. The term that players use, "concentration check", is just a con save to maintain concentration like I said in the post you quoted. I didn't claim that it was in the rules, I was explaining the difference in terms I used. This is a common term, so there is no purpose to your pedantry.