Hi. My player plays one and constantly reminds everyone how weak he is snd how he regrets his choice. I tried to prove him wrong but... channel gives you +10 on ONE attack until you finish a long rest... it is kinda... underpovered compared to other domains. Only later you gain access to more uses but it is still too little to be actually cool.
He argues that his ability to 4 times hit creatures with his bonus action is cool but it us really the only ability wich defined War Cleric compared with other domains.
Can you please help me convince him that he hasn't made a bad choice. His words "I am nither a healer nor a warrior"
Of course, if the only thing that he wants is attacking with his weapon, it's a good thing that he is weaker than a true warrior, but is he not using his spells on top of the rest ?
And yes, he took a path that is a hybrid between a healer (although honestly, there are no true healers in 5e) and a fighter, so he should not expect to be as good as each.
He is using spells but for him to be a war Cleric = to hit with your weapons
Ok. I got the idea how to convince him (at least how to try)
Imo War Cleric is kind of underpowered. If he keeps complaining, change the 6th level ability to Extra Attack, so he can smack people more, and maybe change the Channel Divinity the ability to add his Wisdom modifier to attack rolls for one minute, like what the Devotion paladin gets? Either way, I'm of the opinion that if you want to play a martial cleric, play Paladin. Clerics don't get smite spells normally, and whilst they do get constant extra damage on attacks earlier than paladins, that's only at level 8, and I've some campaigns to not even reach level 7. Of course, he's never going to be as good as a Fighter when attacking, but I feel a 6th level extra attack and a tweak of the channel divinity will go a long way.
Yes, the war domain wants to be hitting things in melee, but it's not underpowered by any stretch.
They have Channel Divinity: Guided Strike, which is great, but you're both missing out. They can do that once per Short Rest, not once per Long Rest. If you're not giving time for a Short Rest or two throughout the adventuring day, then you're depriving them of resources. And with War Priest, they can get in a second weapon attack with their Bonus Action four times per Long Rest, if I'm reading that right. It'll get better with magic weapons and Divine Strike at 8th-level, but it's really there for when they don't have another use for their Bonus Action.
And they do have uses for their Bonus Action. They already have Shield of Faith, and they'll soon have Magic Weapon and Spiritual Weapon if they don't already. At 6th-level, Channel Divinity: War God's Blessing lets them pass their +10 to hit off to an ally up to twice per Short Rest. Nevermind the 3rd-level spells Crusader's Mantle and Spirit Guardians.
The player needs to realize they're a supporting character. Their job is to help make the party better. If that's not what they wanted to do, then talk with them and see what best fits their fantasy. If need be, let them rebuild their character as a different class.
Clerics in general get fewer class toys/features to play with (the combination of spells and turn undead limits options).
Nearly all characters under 5th level feel underpowered (combination of no extra attacks, cantrip damage, 3rd level spells)
Clerics can be outdone in combat by all the warriors, monks, and rogues; the war cleric is an improvement but does not match the straight damage of the others
So what does a war cleric get that helps define their martial superiority:
Heavy armor - get the dude into some heavy armor, get them a shield, AC of 18+ is no joke and the rogues, rangers, monks, and barbarians can't do that
Martial weapons - d8's instead of d4's and d6's. It doesn't seem like much but its big deal
Magic weapon, spiritual weapon, spirit guardians are great individual benefits
Bless. Part of being a war cleric is making the whole party better fighters. In a recent session I nearly ruined the encounter with an upcast bless and my own really high armor class.
Healing:
No one in 5e gets a lot of healing, and outside of the life cleric, clerics are the best at healing.
If they are used to video game healing, then 5e cleric will be very disappointing.
Sometimes a short rest is better than burning your clerics spell slots
I'm playing a Wood Elf Knowledge domain Cleric and given the group I'm with which consists of 2 wizards, a rogue and my cleric I have the habit of trying to play the Tank when I'm not healing (and failing to be blunt!).
I'm learning as I'm playing and I've run a few sessions so its an ongoing process but I've never considered my character "weak".
Maybe the other players in his game are the reason he thinks he's so weak?
What is his background story?
For example mine is a malformed wood elf who ended up stuck within an abandoned temple in the Feywild cursed to not be able to leave its confines unless its via a portal to another realm in this case the choice was between the Shadowfell (nope!) or a Prime Material World.
My character settled down there was briefly married had a child but the marriage failed and she was forced to flee back to her Refuge with her half elven son to escape those who looked upon them as a threat to their machinations given her now ex-husband had remarried and become a King.
Eventually they returned and her son joined the army and eventually met and became fast friends with his father's heir bonding over their mutual dislike of their father.
However both her son and his wife were killed at the start of a coup she tried to intervene when a group tried to swap the kingdom with its double in the shadowfell and she was promptly banished back to her Refuge, as a result it was moved within the Feywild opening a portal to another Prime Material World where she's having to rebuild her life (focusing more on her clerical duties in an effort to find a way back or at least contact her Grandson left behind on that world).
So she's been establishing shrines to her Refuge in case she's banished again also having the side effect of her spreading word of her deity.
She's not converting anyone, she's just helping and officially she's just a Herbalist making her living as the group who found and helped her upon her arrival here she assists them in their missions.
The Baron of Bottlequay has used her naivety to gain her help with a mission they sent a halfling Cleric of the Everlight alone on. They had to rescue him after he was abandoned by the ship that was carryring him because he was annoying them.
She befriended him and he's teaching her how to cook something thats helping her cope with the stress and fear she's under because of not knowing her grandson is okay.
Imo War Cleric is kind of underpowered. If he keeps complaining, change the 6th level ability to Extra Attack, so he can smack people more, and maybe change the Channel Divinity the ability to add his Wisdom modifier to attack rolls for one minute, like what the Devotion paladin gets? Either way, I'm of the opinion that if you want to play a martial cleric, play Paladin. Clerics don't get smite spells normally, and whilst they do get constant extra damage on attacks earlier than paladins, that's only at level 8, and I've some campaigns to not even reach level 7. Of course, he's never going to be as good as a Fighter when attacking, but I feel a 6th level extra attack and a tweak of the channel divinity will go a long way.
Will it be OP for this subclass to have +10 to attacks AND damage for their Guided Strike?
Yes, +10 damage to the attack is OP, especially early on. He doesn't need that.
First off, remind your cleric that channel divinity is a short restcooldown, not a long rest like you've said. He also gets more uses of it per rest as you level up. It is also does not have to be used with a weapon attack. You can use it on an upcasted Guiding Bolt or Inflict Wounds, guaranteeing that your powerful spell connects. You get to use it after rolling, which means you won't waste it. Its a good ability, but I feel like he isn't understanding it properly. Many clerics get highly a situational Channel Divinity, and the fact that you can almost always find a use for this is quite good.
The war cleric bonus action is one of the very few level 1 features that actually provides a significant damage boost, making you one of the most destructive clerics early in the game. What levels are you and what other players is he comparing himself to? Keep in mind that clerics get Spiritual Weapon and Spiritual Guardians as two fantastic spells for T1 and T2 play (and still great beyond that). Those can help the War Cleric stand apart from other melee classes.
Imo War Cleric is kind of underpowered. If he keeps complaining, change the 6th level ability to Extra Attack, so he can smack people more, and maybe change the Channel Divinity the ability to add his Wisdom modifier to attack rolls for one minute, like what the Devotion paladin gets? Either way, I'm of the opinion that if you want to play a martial cleric, play Paladin. Clerics don't get smite spells normally, and whilst they do get constant extra damage on attacks earlier than paladins, that's only at level 8, and I've some campaigns to not even reach level 7. Of course, he's never going to be as good as a Fighter when attacking, but I feel a 6th level extra attack and a tweak of the channel divinity will go a long way.
Will it be OP for this subclass to have +10 to attacks AND damage for their Guided Strike?
Yes, because it can be combined with other effects for the same benefit.
Both the Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter feats allow for subtracting -5 from the attack roll for +10 damage. Combined, the cleric is now rolling their attack with an extra +5 for +20 damage on a hit. And if they have a, conservatively, +4 to hit already, then they're rolling +9.
So picture a, let's say, 4th-level character (because they need an ASI to acquire the feat) rolling +9 to hit for 27 (1d10 + 22) damage with a greatsword or maul. Even if just once per Short Rest right now, that's potentially 3 times Long Rest. That number will go up. And when they drop an enemy to 0 hit points, they get to make another weapon attack as a Bonus Action without expending their War Priest ability. That is, in no uncertain terms, insanely powerful.
But, if they are a melee-oriented cleric, Great Weapon Master is a good choice for them.
Yes, +10 damage to the attack is OP, especially early on. He doesn't need that.
First off, remind your cleric that channel divinity is a short restcooldown, not a long rest like you've said. He also gets more uses of it per rest as you level up. It is also does not have to be used with a weapon attack. You can use it on an upcasted Guiding Bolt or Inflict Wounds, guaranteeing that your powerful spell connects. You get to use it after rolling, which means you won't waste it. Its a good ability, but I feel like he isn't understanding it properly. Many clerics get highly a situational Channel Divinity, and the fact that you can almost always find a use for this is quite good.
The war cleric bonus action is one of the very few level 1 features that actually provides a significant damage boost, making you one of the most destructive clerics early in the game. What levels are you and what other players is he comparing himself to? Keep in mind that clerics get Spiritual Weapon and Spiritual Guardians as two fantastic spells for T1 and T2 play (and still great beyond that). Those can help the War Cleric stand apart from other melee classes.
We are like level 6 lol. He is more comparing to other clerics like Cleric of The grave or something like that (don’t remember the name). So by his words he failed his cleric my not taking a “healing” cleric and not taking “interesting” cleric like a Grave one.
Even with two uses of divinity channel it is still too little for him. We are playing Curse of Strahd and while it is super deadly fights there (at least in my group) don’t happen alot. Still when they occur players are nearly dead 4 of 6 times so lack of “power” ether in healing, or in damaging is what he feels.
And due to this our adventure doesn’t has this “adventuring day” thing. And they don’t need it because there is like one fight in 3 days
I agree with all of you and Im just collecting things to say when he will complain once again.
Haha fair enough. Yes, if he wanted to be a fantastic healer, his subclass is probably one of the worst Cleric options out there. Of course, it still has full access to healing spells, but you don't have any additional support features.
What is his God? Most gods have multiple domains, and a domain switch is pretty easy to pull off, narratively. If he isn't having fun with his subclass, I'd look into that.
War is a fairly weak domain, but the cleric chassis is so strong it doesn't really matter. The cleric isn't a warrior. It's a spell caster. If he's judging the character by it's ability to hit things with a weapon, sure, he's going to feel weak. He's not going to feel so weak when he's got spiritual weapon running to attack every bonus action. He's not going to feel weak when he gets spirit guardians up and running. My guess is, your player is playing it way, way wrong.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
With the exception of maybe the life cleric, healing doesn't really work for one character to be the healer. Your paladin, bard, druid, and ranger all need to be in on the action. If possible someone needs a healer's kit. If you just leave it to the cleric then the cleric is a terrible class. They have to save all their spells for healing. Don't do that.
With the exception of maybe the life cleric, healing doesn't really work for one character to be the healer. Your paladin, bard, druid, and ranger all need to be in on the action. If possible someone needs a healer's kit. If you just leave it to the cleric then the cleric is a terrible class. They have to save all their spells for healing. Don't do that.
Or ask for a sidekick perhaps an acolyte assigned to your cleric for instance?
Honestly, "healing" is a failing proposition in 5e. You can't keep ahead of the damage. That's probably the hardest adjustment for people to make to this game, and not just the people playing healing classes, but for the people who are expecting heals. The other players need to manage their own expectations on what kind of heals they should be getting too.
Think on it, a "cure wounds" heals for D8+wis mod IIRC, and costs a valuable spell slot to use. A longsword damages for d8+ str mod and doesn't use any enemy resources. On average, you're merely cancelling out a single attack (not even a full attack action). This gets worse as you level up, where monsters multi attack and add their str mod to every attack, and the best a cleric can do is upcast cure wounds...and only get their wis mod one time. You simply cannot keep up with the damage, so don't waste your resources (spell slots) /trying/ to keep up. Use your spell slots to do things to help your party via buffs, or hurt the enemy via debuffs or damage.
Heals are there to get people back on their feet when they drop, not so much to keep them on their feet.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Yep. In particular the barbarian/fighter/ranger/paladin classes have a huge adjustment to the battlefield. Brawlers can't just stand in front and take hits every round. The game is not designed for the healers to keep up with a guy in front with an AC of 16 who is surrounded. Brawlers need to fight smarter to survive.
A cleric who barely ever gets to fight and can't keep up with healing is going to feel particularly useless.
I think melee clerics in general are a bad idea. Melee clerics invite taking hits, which invite concentration checks. The best spells that clerics have are generally concentration based, so you're not /really/ going to want to risk them by being in melee anyways.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I think melee clerics in general are a bad idea. Melee clerics invite taking hits, which invite concentration checks. The best spells that clerics have are generally concentration based, so you're not /really/ going to want to risk them by being in melee anyways.
And yet, the majority of Divine Domains that grant a Divine Strike also grant proficiency with heavy armor. The only one I can think of which doesn't is Trickery, but Divine Strike does also work with ranged weapon attacks. I think a cleric in melee is fine. It works.
I think melee clerics in general are a bad idea. Melee clerics invite taking hits, which invite concentration checks. The best spells that clerics have are generally concentration based, so you're not /really/ going to want to risk them by being in melee anyways.
And yet, the majority of Divine Domains that grant a Divine Strike also grant proficiency with heavy armor. The only one I can think of which doesn't is Trickery, but Divine Strike does also work with ranged weapon attacks. I think a cleric in melee is fine. It works.
So what if they come with heavy armor? A hit causes a concentration check, and heavy armor only provides a benefit of +1 over medium armor and dex. Divine strike, is imo, a trap baiting you into making poor choices. Additionally, weapon clerics require str or dex, while your primary job of spell casting requires wisdom. Everytime you bump your str or dex to use your weapon, you are not bumping your wis to cast spells better. If you are bumping your wis, unless you are fortunate with items you're going to be missing more.
So, again, melee clerics are a trap option and bad idea that works sort of at low levels, and gets worse and worse as you advance.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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Hi. My player plays one and constantly reminds everyone how weak he is snd how he regrets his choice. I tried to prove him wrong but... channel gives you +10 on ONE attack until you finish a long rest... it is kinda... underpovered compared to other domains. Only later you gain access to more uses but it is still too little to be actually cool.
He argues that his ability to 4 times hit creatures with his bonus action is cool but it us really the only ability wich defined War Cleric compared with other domains.
Can you please help me convince him that he hasn't made a bad choice. His words "I am nither a healer nor a warrior"
~and sorry for my bad English
He is using spells but for him to be a war Cleric = to hit with your weapons
Ok. I got the idea how to convince him (at least how to try)
Imo War Cleric is kind of underpowered. If he keeps complaining, change the 6th level ability to Extra Attack, so he can smack people more, and maybe change the Channel Divinity the ability to add his Wisdom modifier to attack rolls for one minute, like what the Devotion paladin gets? Either way, I'm of the opinion that if you want to play a martial cleric, play Paladin. Clerics don't get smite spells normally, and whilst they do get constant extra damage on attacks earlier than paladins, that's only at level 8, and I've some campaigns to not even reach level 7. Of course, he's never going to be as good as a Fighter when attacking, but I feel a 6th level extra attack and a tweak of the channel divinity will go a long way.
Yes, the war domain wants to be hitting things in melee, but it's not underpowered by any stretch.
They have Channel Divinity: Guided Strike, which is great, but you're both missing out. They can do that once per Short Rest, not once per Long Rest. If you're not giving time for a Short Rest or two throughout the adventuring day, then you're depriving them of resources. And with War Priest, they can get in a second weapon attack with their Bonus Action four times per Long Rest, if I'm reading that right. It'll get better with magic weapons and Divine Strike at 8th-level, but it's really there for when they don't have another use for their Bonus Action.
And they do have uses for their Bonus Action. They already have Shield of Faith, and they'll soon have Magic Weapon and Spiritual Weapon if they don't already. At 6th-level, Channel Divinity: War God's Blessing lets them pass their +10 to hit off to an ally up to twice per Short Rest. Nevermind the 3rd-level spells Crusader's Mantle and Spirit Guardians.
The player needs to realize they're a supporting character. Their job is to help make the party better. If that's not what they wanted to do, then talk with them and see what best fits their fantasy. If need be, let them rebuild their character as a different class.
A couple of observations
So what does a war cleric get that helps define their martial superiority:
Healing:
I'm playing a Wood Elf Knowledge domain Cleric and given the group I'm with which consists of 2 wizards, a rogue and my cleric I have the habit of trying to play the Tank when I'm not healing (and failing to be blunt!).
I'm learning as I'm playing and I've run a few sessions so its an ongoing process but I've never considered my character "weak".
Maybe the other players in his game are the reason he thinks he's so weak?
What is his background story?
For example mine is a malformed wood elf who ended up stuck within an abandoned temple in the Feywild cursed to not be able to leave its confines unless its via a portal to another realm in this case the choice was between the Shadowfell (nope!) or a Prime Material World.
My character settled down there was briefly married had a child but the marriage failed and she was forced to flee back to her Refuge with her half elven son to escape those who looked upon them as a threat to their machinations given her now ex-husband had remarried and become a King.
Eventually they returned and her son joined the army and eventually met and became fast friends with his father's heir bonding over their mutual dislike of their father.
However both her son and his wife were killed at the start of a coup she tried to intervene when a group tried to swap the kingdom with its double in the shadowfell and she was promptly banished back to her Refuge, as a result it was moved within the Feywild opening a portal to another Prime Material World where she's having to rebuild her life (focusing more on her clerical duties in an effort to find a way back or at least contact her Grandson left behind on that world).
So she's been establishing shrines to her Refuge in case she's banished again also having the side effect of her spreading word of her deity.
She's not converting anyone, she's just helping and officially she's just a Herbalist making her living as the group who found and helped her upon her arrival here she assists them in their missions.
The Baron of Bottlequay has used her naivety to gain her help with a mission they sent a halfling Cleric of the Everlight alone on. They had to rescue him after he was abandoned by the ship that was carryring him because he was annoying them.
She befriended him and he's teaching her how to cook something thats helping her cope with the stress and fear she's under because of not knowing her grandson is okay.
How does he handle his backstory?
Will it be OP for this subclass to have +10 to attacks AND damage for their Guided Strike?
Yes, +10 damage to the attack is OP, especially early on. He doesn't need that.
First off, remind your cleric that channel divinity is a short rest cooldown, not a long rest like you've said. He also gets more uses of it per rest as you level up. It is also does not have to be used with a weapon attack. You can use it on an upcasted Guiding Bolt or Inflict Wounds, guaranteeing that your powerful spell connects. You get to use it after rolling, which means you won't waste it. Its a good ability, but I feel like he isn't understanding it properly. Many clerics get highly a situational Channel Divinity, and the fact that you can almost always find a use for this is quite good.
The war cleric bonus action is one of the very few level 1 features that actually provides a significant damage boost, making you one of the most destructive clerics early in the game. What levels are you and what other players is he comparing himself to? Keep in mind that clerics get Spiritual Weapon and Spiritual Guardians as two fantastic spells for T1 and T2 play (and still great beyond that). Those can help the War Cleric stand apart from other melee classes.
Yes, because it can be combined with other effects for the same benefit.
Both the Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter feats allow for subtracting -5 from the attack roll for +10 damage. Combined, the cleric is now rolling their attack with an extra +5 for +20 damage on a hit. And if they have a, conservatively, +4 to hit already, then they're rolling +9.
So picture a, let's say, 4th-level character (because they need an ASI to acquire the feat) rolling +9 to hit for 27 (1d10 + 22) damage with a greatsword or maul. Even if just once per Short Rest right now, that's potentially 3 times Long Rest. That number will go up. And when they drop an enemy to 0 hit points, they get to make another weapon attack as a Bonus Action without expending their War Priest ability. That is, in no uncertain terms, insanely powerful.
But, if they are a melee-oriented cleric, Great Weapon Master is a good choice for them.
We are like level 6 lol. He is more comparing to other clerics like Cleric of The grave or something like that (don’t remember the name). So by his words he failed his cleric my not taking a “healing” cleric and not taking “interesting” cleric like a Grave one.
Even with two uses of divinity channel it is still too little for him. We are playing Curse of Strahd and while it is super deadly fights there (at least in my group) don’t happen alot. Still when they occur players are nearly dead 4 of 6 times so lack of “power” ether in healing, or in damaging is what he feels.
And due to this our adventure doesn’t has this “adventuring day” thing. And they don’t need it because there is like one fight in 3 days
I agree with all of you and Im just collecting things to say when he will complain once again.
Haha fair enough. Yes, if he wanted to be a fantastic healer, his subclass is probably one of the worst Cleric options out there. Of course, it still has full access to healing spells, but you don't have any additional support features.
What is his God? Most gods have multiple domains, and a domain switch is pretty easy to pull off, narratively. If he isn't having fun with his subclass, I'd look into that.
War is a fairly weak domain, but the cleric chassis is so strong it doesn't really matter. The cleric isn't a warrior. It's a spell caster. If he's judging the character by it's ability to hit things with a weapon, sure, he's going to feel weak. He's not going to feel so weak when he's got spiritual weapon running to attack every bonus action. He's not going to feel weak when he gets spirit guardians up and running. My guess is, your player is playing it way, way wrong.
EDIT: What spells does he have?
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
With the exception of maybe the life cleric, healing doesn't really work for one character to be the healer. Your paladin, bard, druid, and ranger all need to be in on the action. If possible someone needs a healer's kit. If you just leave it to the cleric then the cleric is a terrible class. They have to save all their spells for healing. Don't do that.
Or ask for a sidekick perhaps an acolyte assigned to your cleric for instance?
Honestly, "healing" is a failing proposition in 5e. You can't keep ahead of the damage. That's probably the hardest adjustment for people to make to this game, and not just the people playing healing classes, but for the people who are expecting heals. The other players need to manage their own expectations on what kind of heals they should be getting too.
Think on it, a "cure wounds" heals for D8+wis mod IIRC, and costs a valuable spell slot to use. A longsword damages for d8+ str mod and doesn't use any enemy resources. On average, you're merely cancelling out a single attack (not even a full attack action). This gets worse as you level up, where monsters multi attack and add their str mod to every attack, and the best a cleric can do is upcast cure wounds...and only get their wis mod one time. You simply cannot keep up with the damage, so don't waste your resources (spell slots) /trying/ to keep up. Use your spell slots to do things to help your party via buffs, or hurt the enemy via debuffs or damage.
Heals are there to get people back on their feet when they drop, not so much to keep them on their feet.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Yep. In particular the barbarian/fighter/ranger/paladin classes have a huge adjustment to the battlefield. Brawlers can't just stand in front and take hits every round. The game is not designed for the healers to keep up with a guy in front with an AC of 16 who is surrounded. Brawlers need to fight smarter to survive.
A cleric who barely ever gets to fight and can't keep up with healing is going to feel particularly useless.
I think melee clerics in general are a bad idea. Melee clerics invite taking hits, which invite concentration checks. The best spells that clerics have are generally concentration based, so you're not /really/ going to want to risk them by being in melee anyways.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
And yet, the majority of Divine Domains that grant a Divine Strike also grant proficiency with heavy armor. The only one I can think of which doesn't is Trickery, but Divine Strike does also work with ranged weapon attacks. I think a cleric in melee is fine. It works.
So what if they come with heavy armor? A hit causes a concentration check, and heavy armor only provides a benefit of +1 over medium armor and dex. Divine strike, is imo, a trap baiting you into making poor choices. Additionally, weapon clerics require str or dex, while your primary job of spell casting requires wisdom. Everytime you bump your str or dex to use your weapon, you are not bumping your wis to cast spells better. If you are bumping your wis, unless you are fortunate with items you're going to be missing more.
So, again, melee clerics are a trap option and bad idea that works sort of at low levels, and gets worse and worse as you advance.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha