I'm kind of underwhelmed with what we got, Still really sparse, while they are improved I don't think by enough, and it still sucks a level 7 wizard can polymorph allies into things you can't turn into at level 20. I don't think the better forms are much of a value add, You can use it in a fight at higher levels you just will be bad enough i am not sure its worth it. The real value add of wild shape will be found in the low Cr beast utility. You aren't giving up 90% your spellcasting to use your sub class abilities in the other druid sub classes so I'd of liked enough bang out the wild shape to justify giving up all that casting. Being bad in a fight, with 6 crap spells I can cast and a small bag of temp hit points just isn't it. Heck combat wise I suspect a wizard will get more out of being a blade singer. Nice AC boost, their basic attack is improved as its a weapon attack and a cantrip, and their casting isn't limited while using bladesinging.
I get balancing this is hard due to the druid being a full caster. But its weak enough I just can't see me utilizing it much mid levels. low levels its still powerful, and eventually you can cast all your spells end game so hey get some free temp hit points I guess. But that is a kind of lame way to end up using your core sub class ability. I just use it for some temp hit point...
Hey maybe i am wrong, it wont be the first time. Maybe rocking out as a giant scorpion with fount of moonlight running is the coolest thing ever, but I feel it will more be a flurry of misses. It wouldn't have fixed that absolute tiny amount of variety at higher levels but using your own proficiency bonus in the attacks might have made the difference. On the variety side, man just bring back the dire beasts from 3e. Dire weasel, dire bear, dire wolf, dire tiger, dire chicken.
I plan to use templates based on CR1 beasts rather than exotic forms of higher CR, which don't fit in my game context.
For example:
WOLF
Large Beast
AC. 13 + your wisdom modifier
HP. Your Hit Points and Hit Dice. Temporary Hit Points equal to three times your Druid level.
Speed. 50 ft
STR. Equal your Wisdom score
DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA. Use your scores
Proficiency bonus. Your proficiency with beast stat
Skills. Perception +5, Stealth +4
Senses. Darkvision 60 ft., Your passive perception
TRAITS
Pack Tactics. You have Advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally doesn't have the Incapacitated condition.
ACTIONS
Multiattack. You make two Bite attacks.
Bite. Melee Attack Roll: your spell attack bonus, reach 5 ft. Hit: 1d6 + STR mod Piercing damage, and the target has the Prone condition if it is Huge or smaller. The damage die improves with your druid level (lvl6: 1d8, lvl9: 1d10, lvl12: 2d6, lvl15: 2d8, lvl18: 2d10)
BEAR
Large Beast
AC. 13 + your wisdom modifier
HP. Your Hit Points and Hit Dice. Temporary Hit Points equal to three times your Druid level.
Speed. 40 ft., Climb 30 ft.
STR. Equal your Wisdom score
DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA. Use your scores
Proficiency bonus. Your proficiency
Skills. Perception +3
Senses. Darkvision 60 ft., Your passive perception
TRAITS
ACTIONS
Multiattack. You make two Bite or Claw attacks.
Bite. Melee Attack Roll: your spell attack bonus, reach 5 ft. Hit: 1d8 + STR mod Piercing damage. The damage die improves with your druid level (lvl6: 1d10, lvl9: 2d6, lvl12: 2d8, lvl15: 2d10, lvl18: 2d12)
Claw. Melee Attack Roll: your spell attack bonus, reach 5 ft. Hit: 1d4 + STR mod Slashing damage, and the target has the Prone condition if it is Huge or smaller. The damage die improves with your druid level (lvl6: 1d6, lvl9: 1d8, lvl12: 1d10, lvl15: 2d6, lvl18: 2d8)
GIANT SPIDER
Large Beast
AC. 13 + your wisdom modifier
HP. Your Hit Points and Hit Dice. Temporary Hit Points equal to three times your Druid level.
Speed. 30 ft., Climb 30 ft.
STR. Equal your Wisdom score
DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA. Use your scores
Proficiency bonus. Your proficiency with beast stat
Skills. Perception +4, Stealth +7
Senses. Darkvision 60 ft., Your passive perception
TRAITS
Spider Climb. The spider can climb difficult surfaces, including along ceilings, without needing to make an ability check.
Web Walker. The spider ignores movement restrictions caused by webs, and it knows the location of any other creature in contact with the same web.
ACTIONS
Multiattack. You make two Bite attacks.
Bite. Melee Attack Roll: your spell attack bonus, reach 5 ft. Hit: 1d4 + STR mod Piercing damage plus 1d4 Poison damage. The target can’t suffer the poison damage more than once per turn. The damage dies improve with your druid level (lvl6: 1d6, lvl9: 1d8, lvl12: 1d10, lvl15: 2d6, lvl18: 2d8)
Web (Recharge 5–6). Dexterity Saving Throw: your spell DC, one creature you can see within 60 feet. Failure: The target has the Restrained condition until the web is destroyed (AC 10; HP 5; Vulnerability to Fire damage; Immunity to Poison and Psychic damage).
Definitely agree that what we have is pretty lackluster, at the very least they should release official rules for scaling existing stat blocks. For example the Panther (CR1/4), Tiger (CR1) and Sabertooth Tiger (CR2) are basically the same creature stat block with progressively better stats and gaining a multi-attack with the CR2 stat block. There should be some calculation or tool to carry that through to CR6 at a minimum. I'm sorely disappointed that there's so few beasts in the MM, they really should do a bestiary of just beasts, even if it was a digital only supplement on DnDbeyond.
The worst part is that the Panther and Tiger had the really unique prowl ability that was nerfed and replaced with just a bonus action disengage or hide.
Yeah a scaling system would be great better than my dire idea.(though I love dire animals, no idea why they dropped the name, giant is lame sounding in comparison) They have giant, X, but I thought another level up like dire past giant would fill in some gaps, but a baked in scaling system would be ideal.
I will say instead of CR/3 they probably should have just given moon druids a separate chart with its own scaling. The /3 system is off kilter levels 3 a CR 1 creature is not that far behind and you are really powerful, 6 CR2 is still looking solid even powerful, 9 and eh maybe a CR 3 option works, 12 really no CR4 creature is in the ballpark of what players are doing. 18 CR6 is laughable, you will probably be better off as some inconspicuous CR 1/8 creature and just being a caster who no one notices like well every other druid.
agreed, Druids (especially Moon Druids) already don't use a good chunk of the beast stat blocks. I'm not necessarily advocating for straight up templates, but I think they should have some sort of scaling table for Wild Shapes and Polymorph beasts since the amount of beasts in the MM is sorely lacking. They should also either let you use your own PB instead of the beasts or there should be an official feat that lets you add your wisdom modifier to Wild Shape attack rolls (not necessarily damage since that was decently buffed, but the attack rolls need some buffs).
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I'm kind of underwhelmed with what we got, Still really sparse, while they are improved I don't think by enough, and it still sucks a level 7 wizard can polymorph allies into things you can't turn into at level 20. I don't think the better forms are much of a value add, You can use it in a fight at higher levels you just will be bad enough i am not sure its worth it. The real value add of wild shape will be found in the low Cr beast utility. You aren't giving up 90% your spellcasting to use your sub class abilities in the other druid sub classes so I'd of liked enough bang out the wild shape to justify giving up all that casting. Being bad in a fight, with 6 crap spells I can cast and a small bag of temp hit points just isn't it. Heck combat wise I suspect a wizard will get more out of being a blade singer. Nice AC boost, their basic attack is improved as its a weapon attack and a cantrip, and their casting isn't limited while using bladesinging.
I get balancing this is hard due to the druid being a full caster. But its weak enough I just can't see me utilizing it much mid levels. low levels its still powerful, and eventually you can cast all your spells end game so hey get some free temp hit points I guess. But that is a kind of lame way to end up using your core sub class ability. I just use it for some temp hit point...
Hey maybe i am wrong, it wont be the first time. Maybe rocking out as a giant scorpion with fount of moonlight running is the coolest thing ever, but I feel it will more be a flurry of misses. It wouldn't have fixed that absolute tiny amount of variety at higher levels but using your own proficiency bonus in the attacks might have made the difference. On the variety side, man just bring back the dire beasts from 3e. Dire weasel, dire bear, dire wolf, dire tiger, dire chicken.
I plan to use templates based on CR1 beasts rather than exotic forms of higher CR, which don't fit in my game context.
For example:
WOLF
Large Beast
AC. 13 + your wisdom modifier
HP. Your Hit Points and Hit Dice. Temporary Hit Points equal to three times your Druid level.
Speed. 50 ft
STR. Equal your Wisdom score
DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA. Use your scores
Proficiency bonus. Your proficiency with beast stat
Skills. Perception +5, Stealth +4
Senses. Darkvision 60 ft., Your passive perception
TRAITS
Pack Tactics. You have Advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of your allies is within 5 feet of the creature and the ally doesn't have the Incapacitated condition.
ACTIONS
Multiattack. You make two Bite attacks.
Bite. Melee Attack Roll: your spell attack bonus, reach 5 ft. Hit: 1d6 + STR mod Piercing damage, and the target has the Prone condition if it is Huge or smaller. The damage die improves with your druid level (lvl6: 1d8, lvl9: 1d10, lvl12: 2d6, lvl15: 2d8, lvl18: 2d10)
BEAR
Large Beast
AC. 13 + your wisdom modifier
HP. Your Hit Points and Hit Dice. Temporary Hit Points equal to three times your Druid level.
Speed. 40 ft., Climb 30 ft.
STR. Equal your Wisdom score
DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA. Use your scores
Proficiency bonus. Your proficiency
Skills. Perception +3
Senses. Darkvision 60 ft., Your passive perception
TRAITS
ACTIONS
Multiattack. You make two Bite or Claw attacks.
Bite. Melee Attack Roll: your spell attack bonus, reach 5 ft. Hit: 1d8 + STR mod Piercing damage. The damage die improves with your druid level (lvl6: 1d10, lvl9: 2d6, lvl12: 2d8, lvl15: 2d10, lvl18: 2d12)
Claw. Melee Attack Roll: your spell attack bonus, reach 5 ft. Hit: 1d4 + STR mod Slashing damage, and the target has the Prone condition if it is Huge or smaller. The damage die improves with your druid level (lvl6: 1d6, lvl9: 1d8, lvl12: 1d10, lvl15: 2d6, lvl18: 2d8)
GIANT SPIDER
Large Beast
AC. 13 + your wisdom modifier
HP. Your Hit Points and Hit Dice. Temporary Hit Points equal to three times your Druid level.
Speed. 30 ft., Climb 30 ft.
STR. Equal your Wisdom score
DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA. Use your scores
Proficiency bonus. Your proficiency with beast stat
Skills. Perception +4, Stealth +7
Senses. Darkvision 60 ft., Your passive perception
TRAITS
Spider Climb. The spider can climb difficult surfaces, including along ceilings, without needing to make an ability check.
Web Walker. The spider ignores movement restrictions caused by webs, and it knows the location of any other creature in contact with the same web.
ACTIONS
Multiattack. You make two Bite attacks.
Bite. Melee Attack Roll: your spell attack bonus, reach 5 ft. Hit: 1d4 + STR mod Piercing damage plus 1d4 Poison damage. The target can’t suffer the poison damage more than once per turn. The damage dies improve with your druid level (lvl6: 1d6, lvl9: 1d8, lvl12: 1d10, lvl15: 2d6, lvl18: 2d8)
Web (Recharge 5–6). Dexterity Saving Throw: your spell DC, one creature you can see within 60 feet. Failure: The target has the Restrained condition until the web is destroyed (AC 10; HP 5; Vulnerability to Fire damage; Immunity to Poison and Psychic damage).
Definitely agree that what we have is pretty lackluster, at the very least they should release official rules for scaling existing stat blocks. For example the Panther (CR1/4), Tiger (CR1) and Sabertooth Tiger (CR2) are basically the same creature stat block with progressively better stats and gaining a multi-attack with the CR2 stat block. There should be some calculation or tool to carry that through to CR6 at a minimum. I'm sorely disappointed that there's so few beasts in the MM, they really should do a bestiary of just beasts, even if it was a digital only supplement on DnDbeyond.
The worst part is that the Panther and Tiger had the really unique prowl ability that was nerfed and replaced with just a bonus action disengage or hide.
That is a bit of a bummer, and what's even weirder is that the Weretiger does have the prowl ability
Yeah a scaling system would be great better than my dire idea.(though I love dire animals, no idea why they dropped the name, giant is lame sounding in comparison) They have giant, X, but I thought another level up like dire past giant would fill in some gaps, but a baked in scaling system would be ideal.
I will say instead of CR/3 they probably should have just given moon druids a separate chart with its own scaling. The /3 system is off kilter levels 3 a CR 1 creature is not that far behind and you are really powerful, 6 CR2 is still looking solid even powerful, 9 and eh maybe a CR 3 option works, 12 really no CR4 creature is in the ballpark of what players are doing. 18 CR6 is laughable, you will probably be better off as some inconspicuous CR 1/8 creature and just being a caster who no one notices like well every other druid.
agreed, Druids (especially Moon Druids) already don't use a good chunk of the beast stat blocks. I'm not necessarily advocating for straight up templates, but I think they should have some sort of scaling table for Wild Shapes and Polymorph beasts since the amount of beasts in the MM is sorely lacking. They should also either let you use your own PB instead of the beasts or there should be an official feat that lets you add your wisdom modifier to Wild Shape attack rolls (not necessarily damage since that was decently buffed, but the attack rolls need some buffs).