So, how are we feeling about the update to this class? I'm currently running a campaign that exclusively uses the 2024 ruleset (an experiment on my part to gauge how well the core rules function in play). I have to say the Circle of the Moon Druid feels overly nerfed. I understand that in the 2014 rules, the Druid was perhaps excessively beefy (in terms of hit points), but I think the pendulum may have swung too far the other way now. It's not just the temporary hit points, for me. A 2014 druid who wild-shaped into a brown bear had a definite advantage in combat. The 2024 Druid wildshaped into a bear is very weak. Yes, the 2024 AC is significantly better than the 2014 version, but the bear itself does substantially less damage per round.
Thoughts?
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C. Foster Payne
"If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around."
I am enjoying the flexabilty that Land Druid in 2024 gives me, and i like the add ons to Druid itself, such as having find familiar as a class feature, and elemental strikes. Also digging the additional uses for wildshape added, as it gives me other things to do than turn into a giant Hyena because the party is too cheap to rent a horse for the wagon we found.
Not perfect, but i like it.
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He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
Not sure why updates to Druid should affect your dpr like that within a given form- there was nothing in 2014 that boosted attack damage, nor are there any new limits in 2024. Heck, the Primal Strike option from Elemental Fury in 2024 should boost your typical dpr. Now, the brown bear as a specific example got downgraded, but that’s a separate topic. Offhand, the 2014 brown bear is looking rather overtuned for a CR 1, which was corrected as a part of the general stat block readjustment. It’s not the single great pick for a combat Wildshape, but the stats are in line for effective melee in tier 1 and early tier 2.
I like how Druid looks much better. There was a very low probability I'd have played a 2014 druid, but I can easily see myself playing a 2024 druid
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
2014 Moon Druid had an insane power curve. At level 2-4 they could do massively more damage than the rest of the party and wild shape generating 68 HP of health per short rest was ridiculus compared with the the total hit points of the rest of the party (even given the lower AC). Things scaled terribly however and by level 8 or 9 they were probably better off staying out of wild shape to they could cast spells in combat and were basically a classes druid. I never wanted to play a moon druid for that reason, I don't want to make the rest of the party feel useless and I don;t want to ignore my subclass features for long periods of a campaign. I am currently playing a Stars druid (2014 rules, the campaign is nearly 4 years old) and really enjoying it, I regard wild shape as an OOC feature for non-moon druids and having alternate uses for wild shape since Tasha's was a great change.
I've not played 2024 rules yet but on the face of it the moon druid seems much more balanced. While the damage reduction at low levels is due to a nerfing of the brown bear, the temporary hit points is more inline with what other characters will have (while your AC be higher or compensate). Being able to cast some spells in wild shape is also a great change, a moon druid having to come out of wild shape to cast a spell is a PC needed healing or they lost concentration was a real bane of the 2014 moon druid.
Overall the buffs outweigh the nerfs but those nerfs are more pronounced at level 2, 10 and 20.
As was mentioned before, some forms were too strong for their CR. The bear was more accurate, had multiattack did good damage and had more hp than most martials. So if you are level 2 when you cant even be a Moon druid the nerf feels intense.
This also true with the loss of elemental shape and unlimited wild shape.
The Moon druid is much better using wild shape at all tiers but what stands out is how integrated spellcasting has become. The ability to cast a few spells creates a lot more build flexibility alongside other 2024 changes. I am playing a support/healing Moon druid right now letting me combine battlefield mobility, decent healing, party support by knocking enemies prone or restraining them as well as contributing damage with Conjure Animals flying around the battlefield.
The change to Temporary hit points means you can spend more time wild shaped and Wild Resurgence is by far the best ability given to Druids in D&D. The flexibility of having 7 wild shapes readily available means shifting midfight is not as painful as it was, and not having the pain of losing 50% of your wildshapes to heal an ally who engaged in questionable tactics is a major quality of life improvement. (Thanks Ken).
Add in the buffs to damage at 7, 14 and 15, the bonus Con saves at 6th to help protect concentration the teleport and getting an extra 8th level slot as a capstone really emphasize the combination of melee and spellcasting.
Now beastform damage by itself is low in tiers 2 and early 3, meaning your spells have to pull some weight. And Druids still have a major problem, scaling. Simply put Moon Druids don't scale as well with accuracy, with gear with options and wis size. These can be mitigated depending on DM decisions.
My experience so far has been this the 2024 Moon Druid is a worse shapeshifter but a much better druid and I have been enjoying the new version a lot more.
Then our DM allowed us to transition our characters to 2024 so I basically "remade" my character with the new rules.
For the 2014 moon druid I definitely felt the power-jumps when wildshaping into something with a ton of hit points. Even with two barbarians in the party, I was pretty much the party tank and could even stand getting double critted without batting an eyelid. It felt like I was dishing out reasonable damage but hard to compare standing next to two GWF (using the old -5/+10 rules) barbarians.
Using the 2024 moon druid, I felt a bit less tanky but not appreciably weaker. The temp HP was still a lot, and even when that got used up, you don't get forced out of wildshape of course. Plus, despite creeping in to the enemy camp as a rat, it felt fine to wildshape into a polar bear combat form without worrying about using up all wildshapes in one battle. Overall it felt more of a wild-shaping class. And the damage felt like it stepped up: I cast Fount of Moonlight (while still wild-shaped), and with primal strikes meant that, as a Polar Bear, I was rolling quite a few dice. Which was especially nice when I critted!
So, how are we feeling about the update to this class? I'm currently running a campaign that exclusively uses the 2024 ruleset (an experiment on my part to gauge how well the core rules function in play). I have to say the Circle of the Moon Druid feels overly nerfed. I understand that in the 2014 rules, the Druid was perhaps excessively beefy (in terms of hit points), but I think the pendulum may have swung too far the other way now. It's not just the temporary hit points, for me. A 2014 druid who wild-shaped into a brown bear had a definite advantage in combat. The 2024 Druid wildshaped into a bear is very weak. Yes, the 2024 AC is significantly better than the 2014 version, but the bear itself does substantially less damage per round.
Thoughts?
C. Foster Payne
"If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around."
I am enjoying the flexabilty that Land Druid in 2024 gives me, and i like the add ons to Druid itself, such as having find familiar as a class feature, and elemental strikes.
Also digging the additional uses for wildshape added, as it gives me other things to do than turn into a giant Hyena because the party is too cheap to rent a horse for the wagon we found.
Not perfect, but i like it.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
Not sure why updates to Druid should affect your dpr like that within a given form- there was nothing in 2014 that boosted attack damage, nor are there any new limits in 2024. Heck, the Primal Strike option from Elemental Fury in 2024 should boost your typical dpr. Now, the brown bear as a specific example got downgraded, but that’s a separate topic. Offhand, the 2014 brown bear is looking rather overtuned for a CR 1, which was corrected as a part of the general stat block readjustment. It’s not the single great pick for a combat Wildshape, but the stats are in line for effective melee in tier 1 and early tier 2.
I like how Druid looks much better. There was a very low probability I'd have played a 2014 druid, but I can easily see myself playing a 2024 druid
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
2014 Moon Druid had an insane power curve. At level 2-4 they could do massively more damage than the rest of the party and wild shape generating 68 HP of health per short rest was ridiculus compared with the the total hit points of the rest of the party (even given the lower AC). Things scaled terribly however and by level 8 or 9 they were probably better off staying out of wild shape to they could cast spells in combat and were basically a classes druid. I never wanted to play a moon druid for that reason, I don't want to make the rest of the party feel useless and I don;t want to ignore my subclass features for long periods of a campaign. I am currently playing a Stars druid (2014 rules, the campaign is nearly 4 years old) and really enjoying it, I regard wild shape as an OOC feature for non-moon druids and having alternate uses for wild shape since Tasha's was a great change.
I've not played 2024 rules yet but on the face of it the moon druid seems much more balanced. While the damage reduction at low levels is due to a nerfing of the brown bear, the temporary hit points is more inline with what other characters will have (while your AC be higher or compensate). Being able to cast some spells in wild shape is also a great change, a moon druid having to come out of wild shape to cast a spell is a PC needed healing or they lost concentration was a real bane of the 2014 moon druid.
2024 Moon Druids got nerfed.
2024 Moon Druids got buffed.
Overall the buffs outweigh the nerfs but those nerfs are more pronounced at level 2, 10 and 20.
As was mentioned before, some forms were too strong for their CR. The bear was more accurate, had multiattack did good damage and had more hp than most martials. So if you are level 2 when you cant even be a Moon druid the nerf feels intense.
This also true with the loss of elemental shape and unlimited wild shape.
The Moon druid is much better using wild shape at all tiers but what stands out is how integrated spellcasting has become. The ability to cast a few spells creates a lot more build flexibility alongside other 2024 changes. I am playing a support/healing Moon druid right now letting me combine battlefield mobility, decent healing, party support by knocking enemies prone or restraining them as well as contributing damage with Conjure Animals flying around the battlefield.
The change to Temporary hit points means you can spend more time wild shaped and Wild Resurgence is by far the best ability given to Druids in D&D. The flexibility of having 7 wild shapes readily available means shifting midfight is not as painful as it was, and not having the pain of losing 50% of your wildshapes to heal an ally who engaged in questionable tactics is a major quality of life improvement. (Thanks Ken).
Add in the buffs to damage at 7, 14 and 15, the bonus Con saves at 6th to help protect concentration the teleport and getting an extra 8th level slot as a capstone really emphasize the combination of melee and spellcasting.
Now beastform damage by itself is low in tiers 2 and early 3, meaning your spells have to pull some weight. And Druids still have a major problem, scaling. Simply put Moon Druids don't scale as well with accuracy, with gear with options and wis size. These can be mitigated depending on DM decisions.
My experience so far has been this the 2024 Moon Druid is a worse shapeshifter but a much better druid and I have been enjoying the new version a lot more.
Played a 2014 moon druid until 8th level.
Then our DM allowed us to transition our characters to 2024 so I basically "remade" my character with the new rules.
For the 2014 moon druid I definitely felt the power-jumps when wildshaping into something with a ton of hit points. Even with two barbarians in the party, I was pretty much the party tank and could even stand getting double critted without batting an eyelid. It felt like I was dishing out reasonable damage but hard to compare standing next to two GWF (using the old -5/+10 rules) barbarians.
Using the 2024 moon druid, I felt a bit less tanky but not appreciably weaker. The temp HP was still a lot, and even when that got used up, you don't get forced out of wildshape of course. Plus, despite creeping in to the enemy camp as a rat, it felt fine to wildshape into a polar bear combat form without worrying about using up all wildshapes in one battle. Overall it felt more of a wild-shaping class. And the damage felt like it stepped up: I cast Fount of Moonlight (while still wild-shaped), and with primal strikes meant that, as a Polar Bear, I was rolling quite a few dice. Which was especially nice when I critted!