Here's a druid subclass I've created. The main thematic goal was to build a subclass that is really focused on putting the raw primal energy of druids at the center of the subclass. And have fairly simple, straightforward subclass features, including the return of elemental Wild Shape. Feedback welcome!
Circle of Primordials Druids follow one of the Primordials or Elemental Lords of the Inner Planes, who arose from the Elemental Chaos. Primordial Druids draw their power from the raw, elemental energy of these ancient, powerful beings. Primordial Druids are proficient with Simple Weapons, and Light and Medium Armor and Shields. Circle of Primordials Druids tend to inhabit environments with high concentrations of elemental power such as extreme heat (e.g., volcanic or geothermal environments), extreme cold environments (e.g., Arctic, cold mountains), extreme dry environments (e.g., Deserts), or areas dominated by water (e.g., coasts, swamps, flood planes, islands, jungles). Each Primordial Druid must select a Primordial or Elemental Lord to follow, which will determine additional sub-class features at higher levels. (See below)
* Choose the type of Wall (i.e., Fire, Force, Ice, Light, Sand, Stone, Thorns, Water, Wind) most similar/relevant to the Primordial you follow
Level 3: Energy Mastery
Choose one of the following damage types associated with the Primordial or Elemental Lords: Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Thunder. Spells you cast ignore Resistance to damage of the chosen type. In addition, when you roll damage for a spell you cast that deals damage of that type, you can add your proficiency bonus to the damage.
Level 6: Primordial Propensity
Your primordial infused natural magic has an affinity with a damage type most similar/relevant to the Primordial or Elemental Lord that you follow. Choose one of those types: Fire, Force, Ice, Lightning, Thunder, Wind.
You have Resistance to that damage type, and when you cast a spell that deals damage of that type, you can add your Wisdom modifier to one damage roll of that spell.
Level 10: Elemental Form
At 10th level, you can expend a use of Wild Shape to transform into an air elemental, an earth elemental, a fire elemental, or a water elemental most relevant based on the Primordial that you follow.
Level 18: Elemental Mastery
By 18th level, you gain resistance to any damage and effects associated with the elemental planes: Water, Cold, Fire, Lightning, and Thunder. As such you can survive in any environments on the Plane or the Inner Planes, e.g., underwater, desert, cold, fire, etc. In addition, at will, you can transmute any damage type from a spell or your weapon into Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Thunder.
Yes with regards to spell defining. The other huge problem is the duplication of the base Druids 7th level feature as a subclass feature at 6th, the fact that the third level feature is a feat is problematic since it provides a stat boost early and not extending the benefits of the feat to its own abilities.
The level 14 feature is very strong but poorly defined. It seems to say that you gain immunity to Cold, Fire and Lightning and Thunder damage when most features offer only resistance and to fewer elements.
It is also not including the current Druid design of having a Wild Shape substitute at level 3. When you get it at level 10 is is inconsistent with the CR range of Moon Druids and with the 2014 version.
Thanks for the feedback, esp that my L6 subclass feature duplicates the L7 base case feature. I’ll change that. I realize the elemental WS doesn’t fit the 2024 CR standard, I feel it’s not unbalanced bc (1) of the 2014 Moon Druid rules and (2) my subclass only allows the PC to WS into 1 type of elemental. I’ll think more about whether the L14 immunities are OP.
Overall - I think you need to define the Primordial Lines and designate the abilities. This pick and choose makes the choices confusing and the subclass chaotic. Stream line the design. Third level feature should be pick a primordial type/line, gain x if you chose y etc..
Subclass features dont use proficiency bonus in 5.5. They use primary or secondary stat. Furthermore you are adding damage features at level 3 and 6, this is redundant. Also do you want to limit damage to just spells or include features, abilities and attacks in elemental shape.
I also find the lack of uses for Wild Shape at level 3 inconsistent with 5.5 Druid design. I would consider letting them wild shape into a elemental template at 3rd, and improve wild shape bonuses and include a limited spell list that can be cast while wild shaped similar to moon. The template can be gradually improved over time. Otherwise their is very little synergy between the features.
Great feedback, thank you. In hindsight I should have spent time reviewing the conceptual framework for subclasses, synergy, etc.--TBH I just had what I thought was an interesting general concept. I considered allowing uses of elemental WS at lower levels, but thought might be perceived as OP.
I'll review and streamline....
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Started playing AD&D in the late 70s, took a 40 year hiatus, re-started with 3.5 and 5e in 2023
Might be a bit over-tuned, but here's the updated version:
Circle of Primordials Druids follow one of the Primordialsor Elemental Lords of the Inner Planeswho arose from the Elemental Chaos. Primordial Druids draw their power from the raw, elemental energy of these ancient, powerful beings, and the elemental forces of the Inner Planes. Circle of Primordials Druids tend to inhabit environments with high concentrations of elemental power such as extreme heat (e.g., volcanic or geothermal environments), extreme cold environments (e.g., Arctic, cold mountains, etc.), extreme dry environments (e.g., deserts), or areas governed by water (e.g., coasts, swamps, flood planes, islands, jungles). Each Primordial Druid must select a Primordial or Elemental Lord to follow, which will influences additional sub-class features at higher levels. (See below)
Languages: you can speak, read and write Primordial. Additionally, whenever you make a History check related to the Inner Planes or Primordials history or lore, you can add your proficiency bonus to the check.
Level 3: Elemental Form
You can channel Primordial magic when you assume a Wild Shape form to transform into an Elemental Spirit most closely associated with the Primordial or Elemental Lord you follow (Air, Earth, Fire, Water), granting you the benefits below. The creature resembles a Medium sized, bipedal form wreathed in the chosen element.
Armor Class. Until you leave the form, your AC equals 12 plus your Wisdom modifier.
Temporary Hit Points. You gain a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to three times your Druid level.
Speed 30 ft. and
Level 3-5: Burrow 20 ft. (Earth only); Fly 20 ft. (hover; Air only); Swim 30 ft. (Water only)
Level 6-9: Burrow 30 ft. (Earth only); Fly 30 ft. (hover; Air only); Swim 50 ft. (Water only)
Amorphous Form (Air, Fire, and Water Only). In elemental spirit form, you can move through a space as narrow as 1 inch wide without it counting as Difficult Terrain.
Actions
Multiattack. In elemental spirit form, you make a number of Slam attacks per round equal to your Druid level divided by 2 (round down), a Maximum of two attacks per round.
Slam.Melee Attack Roll: reach 5 ft. Hit: 1d10 +2 of Bludgeoning (Earth only), Cold (Water only), Lightning (Air only), or Fire (Fire only) damage. Add your Wisdom modifier to Damage rolls.
Circle of Primordials Spells
When you reach a Druid level specified in the Circle of Primordials Spells table, you thereafter always have the listed spells prepared.
You can cast Cure Wounds and Druid Cantrips that don't require material components while in Wild Shape.
Level 6: Primordial Propensity
Primordial Fury:You have Resistance to the damage types(s) most closely associated with the Primordial or Elemental Lord that you follow (i.e., Lightning and Thunder for Air, Piercing and Slashing for Earth, Fire for Fire, Acid and Cold for Water), and you can transmute any damage type from a spell or weapon (including unarmed attack) into a damage type associated with your Primordial or Elemental Lord that you follow. In addition, you can add your Wisdom modifier to each successful attack with damage of that type.
Primordial Toughness. You can add your Wisdom modifier to your Constitution saving throws.
Level 10: Improved Elemental Form
At 10th level, you can expend a use of Wild Shape to transform into an Air Elemental, an Earth Elemental, a Fire Elemental, or a Water Elemental. You can add your Wisdom modifier to Attack and Damage rolls. During Wild Shape you can cast Druid spells with a spell slot of 4th level or lower that don't require any material components.
Level 14: Primordial Personification
By 14th level, you gain Darkvision 60 ft, and condition immunities of elementals: Exhaustion, Paralyzed, Petrified, Poisoned. In addition, you gain resistance to any damage and effects associated with the elemental planes: Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Thunder; and you gain immunity to any damage and effects associated with the Primordial or Elemental Lord that you follow. Last, you can add an extra 2d10 of damage to a target you hit of the type associated with the Primordial or Elemental Lord that you follow to any successful attack while in Elemental Wild Shape form.
At 3rd you can wild shape into the same forms as non moon druids, but you put a template on top of them giving AC, Attacks and THP. That is a really cool idea!
I would suggest making the Slams melee spell attack rolls with 1d10+2+Wis damage. With 2 attacks that on par with moon druid. It makes out at about 16 DPR which comparable to Moon Druid til level 10 but the Elemental Wild Shape takes over. I would remove the condition Immunities though at third a bit too much. Also flight that early is rare, I would put it at 10 ft at 3rd at most, than maybe increase ton20 at 6th.
Level 6 is too strong. The wis bonus to Con saves all the time compared to Moon is unbalanced. You are also adding Wis to damage again and that is not balanced.
Level 10 is again to strong. Elemental Shapes plus Wisdom again? And your giving them almost the full power of the level 18 feature? This is too strong and open ended.
Level 14 too much again, Immunities are very very very rare for players to gain. Even damage types like Fire are just not accessible, I think the one I have seen is Undead Warlocks with Necrotic but that's 2014 and not all the time. Compare this to other features and it's overpowered.
I love the idea of taking the base wild shapes and applying a template effect. I like an elemental spell list, I think Elemental wild shape might be too tron at level 10. Overall I think there are some great ideas but a need to rein in the power.
Cool, again thanks for the feedback. Based on your feedback, I'm planning making the following changes:
Level 3 & 6: remove Darkvision and condition immunities while in WS (and add them to L14 while in and out of WS)
Level 6: removed the WIS bonus to CON saves while in WS
Level 10: no change (kept WIS bonus to Attack and Damage rolls)
Level 14:
60 ft of Darkvision and condition immunities of elementals (in and out of WS). I agree with you that these sorts of condition immunities are rare/almost nonexistent 5e. But I think they shouldn’t be (and weren’t in older editions), and don’t think they’re OP, and are thematic for the subclass.
Here's a druid subclass I've created. The main thematic goal was to build a subclass that is really focused on putting the raw primal energy of druids at the center of the subclass. And have fairly simple, straightforward subclass features, including the return of elemental Wild Shape. Feedback welcome!
Circle of Primordials Druids follow one of the Primordials or Elemental Lords of the Inner Planes, who arose from the Elemental Chaos. Primordial Druids draw their power from the raw, elemental energy of these ancient, powerful beings. Primordial Druids are proficient with Simple Weapons, and Light and Medium Armor and Shields. Circle of Primordials Druids tend to inhabit environments with high concentrations of elemental power such as extreme heat (e.g., volcanic or geothermal environments), extreme cold environments (e.g., Arctic, cold mountains), extreme dry environments (e.g., Deserts), or areas dominated by water (e.g., coasts, swamps, flood planes, islands, jungles). Each Primordial Druid must select a Primordial or Elemental Lord to follow, which will determine additional sub-class features at higher levels. (See below)
Circle of Primordials Spells
* Choose the type of Wall (i.e., Fire, Force, Ice, Light, Sand, Stone, Thorns, Water, Wind) most similar/relevant to the Primordial you follow
Level 3: Energy Mastery
Choose one of the following damage types associated with the Primordial or Elemental Lords: Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Thunder. Spells you cast ignore Resistance to damage of the chosen type. In addition, when you roll damage for a spell you cast that deals damage of that type, you can add your proficiency bonus to the damage.
Level 6: Primordial Propensity
Your primordial infused natural magic has an affinity with a damage type most similar/relevant to the Primordial or Elemental Lord that you follow. Choose one of those types: Fire, Force, Ice, Lightning, Thunder, Wind.
You have Resistance to that damage type, and when you cast a spell that deals damage of that type, you can add your Wisdom modifier to one damage roll of that spell.
Level 10: Elemental Form
At 10th level, you can expend a use of Wild Shape to transform into an air elemental, an earth elemental, a fire elemental, or a water elemental most relevant based on the Primordial that you follow.
Level 18: Elemental Mastery
By 18th level, you gain resistance to any damage and effects associated with the elemental planes: Water, Cold, Fire, Lightning, and Thunder. As such you can survive in any environments on the Plane or the Inner Planes, e.g., underwater, desert, cold, fire, etc. In addition, at will, you can transmute any damage type from a spell or your weapon into Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Thunder.
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s, took a 40 year hiatus, re-started with 3.5 and 5e in 2023
This doesn't work with existing 2024 DnD rules.
You cant define a bonus spell known so haphazardly. I would replace it with Conjure Elemental.
Are you referring to the Elemental Wall stand in for one of the existing Wall spells?
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s, took a 40 year hiatus, re-started with 3.5 and 5e in 2023
Yes with regards to spell defining. The other huge problem is the duplication of the base Druids 7th level feature as a subclass feature at 6th, the fact that the third level feature is a feat is problematic since it provides a stat boost early and not extending the benefits of the feat to its own abilities.
The level 14 feature is very strong but poorly defined. It seems to say that you gain immunity to Cold, Fire and Lightning and Thunder damage when most features offer only resistance and to fewer elements.
It is also not including the current Druid design of having a Wild Shape substitute at level 3. When you get it at level 10 is is inconsistent with the CR range of Moon Druids and with the 2014 version.
Thanks for the feedback, esp that my L6 subclass feature duplicates the L7 base case feature. I’ll change that. I realize the elemental WS doesn’t fit the 2024 CR standard, I feel it’s not unbalanced bc (1) of the 2014 Moon Druid rules and (2) my subclass only allows the PC to WS into 1 type of elemental. I’ll think more about whether the L14 immunities are OP.
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s, took a 40 year hiatus, re-started with 3.5 and 5e in 2023
Glad to offer more feedback if I can help.
Be careful you don't step on Lands schtick when designing the subclass. I think being part of all the elements (like your spells focus on) works fine.
I changed the L3 and L6 features. And I changed the last feature (Elemental Mastery) that was originally gained at L14 to L18.
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s, took a 40 year hiatus, re-started with 3.5 and 5e in 2023
Overall - I think you need to define the Primordial Lines and designate the abilities. This pick and choose makes the choices confusing and the subclass chaotic. Stream line the design. Third level feature should be pick a primordial type/line, gain x if you chose y etc..
Subclass features dont use proficiency bonus in 5.5. They use primary or secondary stat. Furthermore you are adding damage features at level 3 and 6, this is redundant. Also do you want to limit damage to just spells or include features, abilities and attacks in elemental shape.
I also find the lack of uses for Wild Shape at level 3 inconsistent with 5.5 Druid design. I would consider letting them wild shape into a elemental template at 3rd, and improve wild shape bonuses and include a limited spell list that can be cast while wild shaped similar to moon. The template can be gradually improved over time. Otherwise their is very little synergy between the features.
Great feedback, thank you. In hindsight I should have spent time reviewing the conceptual framework for subclasses, synergy, etc.--TBH I just had what I thought was an interesting general concept. I considered allowing uses of elemental WS at lower levels, but thought might be perceived as OP.
I'll review and streamline....
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s, took a 40 year hiatus, re-started with 3.5 and 5e in 2023
Might be a bit over-tuned, but here's the updated version:
Circle of Primordials Druids follow one of the Primordials or Elemental Lords of the Inner Planes who arose from the Elemental Chaos. Primordial Druids draw their power from the raw, elemental energy of these ancient, powerful beings, and the elemental forces of the Inner Planes. Circle of Primordials Druids tend to inhabit environments with high concentrations of elemental power such as extreme heat (e.g., volcanic or geothermal environments), extreme cold environments (e.g., Arctic, cold mountains, etc.), extreme dry environments (e.g., deserts), or areas governed by water (e.g., coasts, swamps, flood planes, islands, jungles). Each Primordial Druid must select a Primordial or Elemental Lord to follow, which will influences additional sub-class features at higher levels. (See below)
Languages: you can speak, read and write Primordial. Additionally, whenever you make a History check related to the Inner Planes or Primordials history or lore, you can add your proficiency bonus to the check.
Level 3: Elemental Form
You can channel Primordial magic when you assume a Wild Shape form to transform into an Elemental Spirit most closely associated with the Primordial or Elemental Lord you follow (Air, Earth, Fire, Water), granting you the benefits below. The creature resembles a Medium sized, bipedal form wreathed in the chosen element.
Armor Class. Until you leave the form, your AC equals 12 plus your Wisdom modifier.
Temporary Hit Points. You gain a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to three times your Druid level.
Speed 30 ft. and
Abilities
Levels 3-5
Levels 6-9
STR: 16 (+3 Mod, Save)
DEX: 13 (+1 Mod, Save)
CON: 15 (+2 Mod, Save)
STR: 18 (+4 Mod, Save)
DEX: 15 (+2 Mod, Save)
CON: 17 (+3 Mod, Save)
Resistances Cold (Water only), Thunder (Air only), Piercing and Slashing (Earth only).
Immunities Fire (Fire only); Exhaustion, Paralyzed, Petrified, Poisoned.
Senses Darkvision 60 ft.; Passive Perception 10.
Traits
Amorphous Form (Air, Fire, and Water Only). In elemental spirit form, you can move through a space as narrow as 1 inch wide without it counting as Difficult Terrain.
Actions
Multiattack. In elemental spirit form, you make a number of Slam attacks per round equal to your Druid level divided by 2 (round down), a Maximum of two attacks per round.
Slam. Melee Attack Roll: reach 5 ft. Hit: 1d10 +2 of Bludgeoning (Earth only), Cold (Water only), Lightning (Air only), or Fire (Fire only) damage. Add your Wisdom modifier to Damage rolls.
Circle of Primordials Spells
When you reach a Druid level specified in the Circle of Primordials Spells table, you thereafter always have the listed spells prepared.
You can cast Cure Wounds and Druid Cantrips that don't require material components while in Wild Shape.
Level 6: Primordial Propensity
Primordial Fury: You have Resistance to the damage types(s) most closely associated with the Primordial or Elemental Lord that you follow (i.e., Lightning and Thunder for Air, Piercing and Slashing for Earth, Fire for Fire, Acid and Cold for Water), and you can transmute any damage type from a spell or weapon (including unarmed attack) into a damage type associated with your Primordial or Elemental Lord that you follow. In addition, you can add your Wisdom modifier to each successful attack with damage of that type.
Primordial Toughness. You can add your Wisdom modifier to your Constitution saving throws.
Level 10: Improved Elemental Form
At 10th level, you can expend a use of Wild Shape to transform into an Air Elemental, an Earth Elemental, a Fire Elemental, or a Water Elemental. You can add your Wisdom modifier to Attack and Damage rolls. During Wild Shape you can cast Druid spells with a spell slot of 4th level or lower that don't require any material components.
Level 14: Primordial Personification
By 14th level, you gain Darkvision 60 ft, and condition immunities of elementals: Exhaustion, Paralyzed, Petrified, Poisoned. In addition, you gain resistance to any damage and effects associated with the elemental planes: Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning, Thunder; and you gain immunity to any damage and effects associated with the Primordial or Elemental Lord that you follow. Last, you can add an extra 2d10 of damage to a target you hit of the type associated with the Primordial or Elemental Lord that you follow to any successful attack while in Elemental Wild Shape form.
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s, took a 40 year hiatus, re-started with 3.5 and 5e in 2023
OK now we have an interesting wild shape class.
At 3rd you can wild shape into the same forms as non moon druids, but you put a template on top of them giving AC, Attacks and THP. That is a really cool idea!
I would suggest making the Slams melee spell attack rolls with 1d10+2+Wis damage. With 2 attacks that on par with moon druid. It makes out at about 16 DPR which comparable to Moon Druid til level 10 but the Elemental Wild Shape takes over. I would remove the condition Immunities though at third a bit too much. Also flight that early is rare, I would put it at 10 ft at 3rd at most, than maybe increase ton20 at 6th.
Level 6 is too strong. The wis bonus to Con saves all the time compared to Moon is unbalanced. You are also adding Wis to damage again and that is not balanced.
Level 10 is again to strong. Elemental Shapes plus Wisdom again? And your giving them almost the full power of the level 18 feature? This is too strong and open ended.
Level 14 too much again, Immunities are very very very rare for players to gain. Even damage types like Fire are just not accessible, I think the one I have seen is Undead Warlocks with Necrotic but that's 2014 and not all the time. Compare this to other features and it's overpowered.
I love the idea of taking the base wild shapes and applying a template effect. I like an elemental spell list, I think Elemental wild shape might be too tron at level 10. Overall I think there are some great ideas but a need to rein in the power.
Cool, again thanks for the feedback. Based on your feedback, I'm planning making the following changes:
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s, took a 40 year hiatus, re-started with 3.5 and 5e in 2023