Balm of the Summer Court. The temp HP it gives is really bad. If you upped that, you could add some beef to your other party members.
Instead of this:
The target also gains 1 temporary hit point per die spent.
Use this:
The target also gains a number of temporary hit points equal to your wisdom modifier per die spent.
Instantly your a much better support caster. At third level with a wisdom score of 16, you could spend 3d6 to heal your ally for an average of 10 hit points and grant them 9 temp HP.
Balm of the Summer Court. The temp HP it gives is really bad. If you upped that, you could add some beef to your other party members.
Instead of this:
The target also gains 1 temporary hit point per die spent.
Use this:
The target also gains a number of temporary hit points equal to your wisdom modifier per die spent.
Instantly your a much better support caster. At third level with a wisdom score of 16, you could spend 3d6 to heal your ally for an average of 10 hit points and grant them 9 temp HP.
Why do you think this feature needs buffing?
As a second level feature you're getting basically a Paladin's Lay On Hands feature, except you can use it as a bonus action at range, so it's vastly superior for in-combat healing. It doesn't matter that the temporary hit-points aren't that much, because you're adding them on top of the average 3.5 hit-points restored per dice rolled, giving you a total of 4.5 damage mitigation per Druid Level (compared to the paladin's 5). I think this is already a very, very solid feature, as even a handful of temporary hit-points still means less damage taken.
Overall I think the sub-class has a lot of solid features; Hidden Paths is great, it's basically a number of free misty steps but with even better range for yourself, or usable on an ally. Walker in Dreams is a nice feature, though for a single use per long rest how much you get out of it may vary, but they're all really good options when you can find a way to use them. Hearth of Moonlight and Shadow is probably the weakest feature; it's not bad by any means, it's like a mini private sanctum, but how much use it will be is highly variable and campaign/DM dependent.
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Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
It just seems to me Dreams reads a far less effective support class in normal situations.
The Shepherd Druid's Unicorn and Bear Spirit just seem far more effective at supporting the party.
The Shepard auras are good but they're not necessarily better.
Keep in mind that they're limited to one minute per rest; while you can get a lot of healing done in that time with the unicorn aura, you're having to spend spell slots on healing to do it, and what are you going to do the rest of the time? Also keep in mind the potential issues with action economy; while it's a good sized aura and you can move it as a bonus action, if you also want to heal on the same turn that's your entire turn gone. Unless you know you're going to be using the rider effects, or can keep a combat contained to within the aura, you might find you end up saving them for out of combat healing or pre-combat buffing, at least until you start combining them with better summons.
Balm of the Summer Court gives you a pool of healing you can use whenever, delivered via what is essentially healing word on steroids but costing you no spell slots, ever. It only conflicts with other bonus action abilities, so you can otherwise do whatever you want with your action. You can even use it while Wildshaped at earlier levels, whereas unicorn can't be triggered as you can't cast a healing spell when Wildshaped.
It's hard to say that one is always better, as they're going to each be superior depending upon when you use them. In general Balm of the Summer Court is far more flexible, and lets you still do whatever you want to do even while you use it, whereas the Shepard totem is something you have to plan around and focus on if you want to get maximum value out of them.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I think the stance that most of are coming off of is the flexibility of Balm is where it shines in comparison to what the Shepard and other healer types have. The healing number/HP is NOT something to focus, it's the action economy and versatility of being able to use a Spell Slot as an action, in addition to using Balm.
Balm is one of the strongest of Dream's features and doesn't really need any buffs. Its power comes from its versatility. If you wanted to buff Dreams I think it'd be better to put more power into or change some of its weaker / more niche features, like Hearth of Moonlight and Shadow or Walker in Dreams.
If you gave CoD a good circle spell list with some interesting non-druid spells (maybe witch bolt, sleep, flock of familiars, magic circle, etc) that would go a long way towards making it desirable.
was of the same opinion but have tried this subclass as part of my play every druid in the game initiative and its suprisingly good.
lv2: I think its mostly due to its lvl2 BotSC but its almost game breaking as you are getting double spell economy per turn, you no longer have to choose to cast offensively or get your overconfident barbarian out of death saves this means you get to maximize your use of a very potent druid spell list every round and as anyone knows in 5e the amount of healing per spell isn't whats important it's action economy and range witch ontop of being not being vulnerable to a dick DM counterspell or silencing puts this as one of the best combat heals in the game and great at all levels of play.
lvl6: why complain about having a free +5 to perception and stealth pluss concealment of fires? everyone likes to bring up spells like hut and rope trick but 1rst that makes the assumption anybody has taken a class with those spells and prepared them and its giving your druid an ability that was lacking from its spell list as efectively a free cantrip while sparing your wizard or poor sorcerer from neading to take the spell instead of something else they want like fireball. and I have seen this actualy twice turn an attempted night raid on it's head.
overall its a rock solid subclass it isn't ultra flashy and plays much better than it looks on paper and it rounds out gaps in a druids spell list in ways that provide substantive party utility and support without comprimising on the druids offensive powers in summary Circle of Dreams is one of the best balanced subclasses of druid and a far far cry from the Purple Dragon Knight, or Four elements monk.
People do pick on hearth of moonlight and shadow, but total cover blocks it; which means you're party is un-targetable. Moreover, you could put a tiny hut inside of it, which cannot now be dispelled (because that hut can't be targeted either). It makes rests almost perfectly secure now -- even more than just a tiny hut.
People do pick on hearth of moonlight and shadow, but total cover blocks it; which means you're party is un-targetable. Moreover, you could put a tiny hut inside of it, which cannot now be dispelled (because that hut can't be targeted either). It makes rests almost perfectly secure now -- even more than just a tiny hut.
I think you might have misinterpreted part of the effect; the sphere does not provide total cover, it is blocked by total cover, i.e- if you use the 30 foot radius sphere while inside a 20 foot cube room, then the sphere fills the cube and goes no further. If you have access to leomund's tiny hut then it will almost always be superior for a long rest unless you're out of spell slots to cast it with.
It's not a bad feature to have, making all of your rests moderately safer, but it's quite a situational ability; unless your DM is heavily into ambushes during rest etc. This is the same problem that many Ranger features can face, and why Tasha's Cauldron's optional class features gave us alternatives, as a feature you only rarely get to use (if at all) is going to pale when compared to something that another sub-class gets and can use regularly.
IMO the feature isn't a bad one, but it should have been a secondary feature alongside some other small bonus you can use a lot more reliably (anything combat related, something skill related since you can usually engineer your own skill checks etc.).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
You might be right, but I’d still interpret things slightly differently: If you use the ability next to a wall, it doesn’t pass the wall instead, it doesn’t shrink in size, like other area effects.
Yeah, I'd say if there was one problem with Dreams, it's that the level 6 feature ends up being irrelevant in a lot of campaigns if the DM isn't interested in making dangerous rests a regular part of play.
So if we were trying to 'fix' the archetype, might be worth homebrewing an entirely new 6th level feature for those types of campaigns.
I feel like the OP's assessment of the second level feature in particular is a bit backwards. Less 'easily replaced by healing word' and more... hey slotless better-than-healing word that ignores the normal bonus action spell restrictions because you're not actually casting a spell.
Do kind of wish it had a subclass spell list, but that's mostly just because I think subclass spell lists are a really good thing to make subclasses feel more flavorful in general.
Hey guys :D this is gonna be a little long of a post but I'll do my best to convince you that circle of dreams druid is awesome. I've been playing it for about 3 months now at a higher level. I joined a game that had already gone through some modules and is now on the against Vecna kind of campaign. Not the "don't say vecna" 1 shot but the other one idk im not trying to ruin it.
Anyways! Currently I am the only healer and by that I mean literally the only one that even can take healing spells. So I went hard in the paint. Spawning in at level 13 I was given a few magic items including a legendary! Currently I rock a longbow of healing hearth flavored as a greatsword that slings out magical slashes instead of shooting magic arrows, something amazing called a Ring of Amity attached to our "tank", and a +1 moon sickle, and lastly but not relevant a mirror of the past. I currently have 20 wisdom, the observant feat, skill expert for perception, and ritual caster for cleric ie mainly forbiddance.
In relevance the extra 13 heals and normal druid heals like my healing spirit and now aura of vitality was added, I'm a super efficient healer. In 1 day we had 3 encounters I was targeted a bit as a caster by their ranged. With being a tabaxi though and access to a bonus action teleport I was anywhere and everywhere on the map I wanted to be. Healing myself healed my tank. I spent 3 charges of healing hearth and 1 second spell slot for healing spirit and 2 slots on absorb elements that day, 3 uses of hidden paths and 5 uses of Balm. No high level slots. xD I kinda felt like a god tbh the ring of amity also cut alot of my healing. Over the day we had dealt with some demons, a big ass lava pitfall and lastly a lich that was trying to buy time by force caging us. My hidden path got 2 of my front lines out before the lich lost concentration and arguably he only lost it cause of the rogue I teleported next to him. Extremely good. We also short rested that day (we were in gehenna looking for gulthias's tomb) and avoided an encounter so coulda been 4. Lastly we rested near "layer 4" right before the tomb. Now I know that as a perm place if im ever on gehenna again and we can teleport circle to as its the last place I rested on that plane. Also I played into long rests, since I have so much healing uses i almost always have high level slots left so we lr rest in a leomunds tiny hut(our sorc has ritual caster wizard), in a instant summons tower (the magic item dwarmma or something) with a guardian of faith from my healing hearth, a extra tower/wall made from the wall of stone spell, my hearth of shadow lv 6 feature, in forbiddance, in a druid grove, in a hallucinary terrain, with some plant growths around if vegetation, in a mirage arcana. Me at the top of the tower with 35 (30 normally)passive perception and a spyglass able to see past the illusions and when I rest i meld into stone and stillllll have a 25 ( -5 disadv. And no hearth cause in full cover :/...) passive perception for hearing.
Any good dm should be threatening encounters in dangerous places and man can you make it impossibly difficult to be bothered. Specially in estranged places and planes like we're venturing to with this campaign. Once we hit 14 this thing is gonna be sick. I've been keeping track of every spot on every plane I long rested on last so if we ever go back I can get us to a relevent spot. This is my build/gameplay with the circle of dreams druid and I love it so far. As a feylost tabaxi from chult who guides travelers across planes and through safe groves of the prime material. I will show you da way 🙏 😘! #muchlove #dedondaytinyhands
P.s. Circle of stars was always my favorite previously but it was from a dungeon crawl combat point of view. I do agree with a added spell list or a wild shape use option. Fill it with some utility spells and stuffs. Currently I'm trying to get my hands on a ruby weave gem so I can use it to get access to beacon of hope but eh idc. All the excess healing is amazing and I haven't even spent a 4th or 5th level spell slot yet for healing and typically have 80% of my slots at the end of a day. I also don't even have healing word prepared. Its not worth it. Tyty for reading, sorry bout my sentence structure. I hope this helped from a played perspective.
4.5 years since the OP posted this and 3 years since the last post.
The OPs complaint about the dreams druid was that it was level 10 before you got a decent feature and you don't want to go though 9 levels of weak character, something you completley avoided by starting at level 13.
As others posted even at lower levels dreams isn't as bad as he claimed. He said Balm of the summer court can be replaced with healing word. Even if this was true being able to cast healing word a number of times a day equal to your level is not insignificant but the fact that it isn't a spell is huge, as you can use it with your bonus action and still cast a levelled spell with your action.
I have an idea to boost the subclass a bit.
Balm of the Summer Court. The temp HP it gives is really bad. If you upped that, you could add some beef to your other party members.
Instead of this:
The target also gains 1 temporary hit point per die spent.
Use this:
The target also gains a number of temporary hit points equal to your wisdom modifier per die spent.
Instantly your a much better support caster. At third level with a wisdom score of 16, you could spend 3d6 to heal your ally for an average of 10 hit points and grant them 9 temp HP.
Why do you think this feature needs buffing?
As a second level feature you're getting basically a Paladin's Lay On Hands feature, except you can use it as a bonus action at range, so it's vastly superior for in-combat healing. It doesn't matter that the temporary hit-points aren't that much, because you're adding them on top of the average 3.5 hit-points restored per dice rolled, giving you a total of 4.5 damage mitigation per Druid Level (compared to the paladin's 5). I think this is already a very, very solid feature, as even a handful of temporary hit-points still means less damage taken.
Overall I think the sub-class has a lot of solid features; Hidden Paths is great, it's basically a number of free misty steps but with even better range for yourself, or usable on an ally. Walker in Dreams is a nice feature, though for a single use per long rest how much you get out of it may vary, but they're all really good options when you can find a way to use them. Hearth of Moonlight and Shadow is probably the weakest feature; it's not bad by any means, it's like a mini private sanctum, but how much use it will be is highly variable and campaign/DM dependent.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
It just seems to me Dreams reads a far less effective support class in normal situations.
The Shepherd Druid's Unicorn and Bear Spirit just seem far more effective at supporting the party.
The Shepard auras are good but they're not necessarily better.
Keep in mind that they're limited to one minute per rest; while you can get a lot of healing done in that time with the unicorn aura, you're having to spend spell slots on healing to do it, and what are you going to do the rest of the time? Also keep in mind the potential issues with action economy; while it's a good sized aura and you can move it as a bonus action, if you also want to heal on the same turn that's your entire turn gone. Unless you know you're going to be using the rider effects, or can keep a combat contained to within the aura, you might find you end up saving them for out of combat healing or pre-combat buffing, at least until you start combining them with better summons.
Balm of the Summer Court gives you a pool of healing you can use whenever, delivered via what is essentially healing word on steroids but costing you no spell slots, ever. It only conflicts with other bonus action abilities, so you can otherwise do whatever you want with your action. You can even use it while Wildshaped at earlier levels, whereas unicorn can't be triggered as you can't cast a healing spell when Wildshaped.
It's hard to say that one is always better, as they're going to each be superior depending upon when you use them. In general Balm of the Summer Court is far more flexible, and lets you still do whatever you want to do even while you use it, whereas the Shepard totem is something you have to plan around and focus on if you want to get maximum value out of them.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I think the stance that most of are coming off of is the flexibility of Balm is where it shines in comparison to what the Shepard and other healer types have. The healing number/HP is NOT something to focus, it's the action economy and versatility of being able to use a Spell Slot as an action, in addition to using Balm.
Balm is one of the strongest of Dream's features and doesn't really need any buffs. Its power comes from its versatility. If you wanted to buff Dreams I think it'd be better to put more power into or change some of its weaker / more niche features, like Hearth of Moonlight and Shadow or Walker in Dreams.
If you gave CoD a good circle spell list with some interesting non-druid spells (maybe witch bolt, sleep, flock of familiars, magic circle, etc) that would go a long way towards making it desirable.
was of the same opinion but have tried this subclass as part of my play every druid in the game initiative and its suprisingly good.
lv2: I think its mostly due to its lvl2 BotSC but its almost game breaking as you are getting double spell economy per turn, you no longer have to choose to cast offensively or get your overconfident barbarian out of death saves this means you get to maximize your use of a very potent druid spell list every round and as anyone knows in 5e the amount of healing per spell isn't whats important it's action economy and range witch ontop of being not being vulnerable to a dick DM counterspell or silencing puts this as one of the best combat heals in the game and great at all levels of play.
lvl6: why complain about having a free +5 to perception and stealth pluss concealment of fires? everyone likes to bring up spells like hut and rope trick but 1rst that makes the assumption anybody has taken a class with those spells and prepared them and its giving your druid an ability that was lacking from its spell list as efectively a free cantrip while sparing your wizard or poor sorcerer from neading to take the spell instead of something else they want like fireball. and I have seen this actualy twice turn an attempted night raid on it's head.
overall its a rock solid subclass it isn't ultra flashy and plays much better than it looks on paper and it rounds out gaps in a druids spell list in ways that provide substantive party utility and support without comprimising on the druids offensive powers in summary Circle of Dreams is one of the best balanced subclasses of druid and a far far cry from the Purple Dragon Knight, or Four elements monk.
People do pick on hearth of moonlight and shadow, but total cover blocks it; which means you're party is un-targetable. Moreover, you could put a tiny hut inside of it, which cannot now be dispelled (because that hut can't be targeted either). It makes rests almost perfectly secure now -- even more than just a tiny hut.
I think you might have misinterpreted part of the effect; the sphere does not provide total cover, it is blocked by total cover, i.e- if you use the 30 foot radius sphere while inside a 20 foot cube room, then the sphere fills the cube and goes no further. If you have access to leomund's tiny hut then it will almost always be superior for a long rest unless you're out of spell slots to cast it with.
It's not a bad feature to have, making all of your rests moderately safer, but it's quite a situational ability; unless your DM is heavily into ambushes during rest etc. This is the same problem that many Ranger features can face, and why Tasha's Cauldron's optional class features gave us alternatives, as a feature you only rarely get to use (if at all) is going to pale when compared to something that another sub-class gets and can use regularly.
IMO the feature isn't a bad one, but it should have been a secondary feature alongside some other small bonus you can use a lot more reliably (anything combat related, something skill related since you can usually engineer your own skill checks etc.).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
You might be right, but I’d still interpret things slightly differently: If you use the ability next to a wall, it doesn’t pass the wall instead, it doesn’t shrink in size, like other area effects.
Yeah, I'd say if there was one problem with Dreams, it's that the level 6 feature ends up being irrelevant in a lot of campaigns if the DM isn't interested in making dangerous rests a regular part of play.
So if we were trying to 'fix' the archetype, might be worth homebrewing an entirely new 6th level feature for those types of campaigns.
I feel like the OP's assessment of the second level feature in particular is a bit backwards. Less 'easily replaced by healing word' and more... hey slotless better-than-healing word that ignores the normal bonus action spell restrictions because you're not actually casting a spell.
Do kind of wish it had a subclass spell list, but that's mostly just because I think subclass spell lists are a really good thing to make subclasses feel more flavorful in general.
Hey guys :D this is gonna be a little long of a post but I'll do my best to convince you that circle of dreams druid is awesome. I've been playing it for about 3 months now at a higher level. I joined a game that had already gone through some modules and is now on the against Vecna kind of campaign. Not the "don't say vecna" 1 shot but the other one idk im not trying to ruin it.
Anyways! Currently I am the only healer and by that I mean literally the only one that even can take healing spells. So I went hard in the paint. Spawning in at level 13 I was given a few magic items including a legendary! Currently I rock a longbow of healing hearth flavored as a greatsword that slings out magical slashes instead of shooting magic arrows, something amazing called a Ring of Amity attached to our "tank", and a +1 moon sickle, and lastly but not relevant a mirror of the past. I currently have 20 wisdom, the observant feat, skill expert for perception, and ritual caster for cleric ie mainly forbiddance.
In relevance the extra 13 heals and normal druid heals like my healing spirit and now aura of vitality was added, I'm a super efficient healer. In 1 day we had 3 encounters I was targeted a bit as a caster by their ranged. With being a tabaxi though and access to a bonus action teleport I was anywhere and everywhere on the map I wanted to be. Healing myself healed my tank. I spent 3 charges of healing hearth and 1 second spell slot for healing spirit and 2 slots on absorb elements that day, 3 uses of hidden paths and 5 uses of Balm. No high level slots. xD I kinda felt like a god tbh the ring of amity also cut alot of my healing. Over the day we had dealt with some demons, a big ass lava pitfall and lastly a lich that was trying to buy time by force caging us. My hidden path got 2 of my front lines out before the lich lost concentration and arguably he only lost it cause of the rogue I teleported next to him. Extremely good. We also short rested that day (we were in gehenna looking for gulthias's tomb) and avoided an encounter so coulda been 4. Lastly we rested near "layer 4" right before the tomb. Now I know that as a perm place if im ever on gehenna again and we can teleport circle to as its the last place I rested on that plane. Also I played into long rests, since I have so much healing uses i almost always have high level slots left so we lr rest in a leomunds tiny hut(our sorc has ritual caster wizard), in a instant summons tower (the magic item dwarmma or something) with a guardian of faith from my healing hearth, a extra tower/wall made from the wall of stone spell, my hearth of shadow lv 6 feature, in forbiddance, in a druid grove, in a hallucinary terrain, with some plant growths around if vegetation, in a mirage arcana. Me at the top of the tower with 35 (30 normally)passive perception and a spyglass able to see past the illusions and when I rest i meld into stone and stillllll have a 25 ( -5 disadv. And no hearth cause in full cover :/...) passive perception for hearing.
Any good dm should be threatening encounters in dangerous places and man can you make it impossibly difficult to be bothered. Specially in estranged places and planes like we're venturing to with this campaign. Once we hit 14 this thing is gonna be sick. I've been keeping track of every spot on every plane I long rested on last so if we ever go back I can get us to a relevent spot. This is my build/gameplay with the circle of dreams druid and I love it so far. As a feylost tabaxi from chult who guides travelers across planes and through safe groves of the prime material. I will show you da way 🙏 😘! #muchlove #dedondaytinyhands
P.s. Circle of stars was always my favorite previously but it was from a dungeon crawl combat point of view. I do agree with a added spell list or a wild shape use option. Fill it with some utility spells and stuffs. Currently I'm trying to get my hands on a ruby weave gem so I can use it to get access to beacon of hope but eh idc. All the excess healing is amazing and I haven't even spent a 4th or 5th level spell slot yet for healing and typically have 80% of my slots at the end of a day. I also don't even have healing word prepared. Its not worth it. Tyty for reading, sorry bout my sentence structure. I hope this helped from a played perspective.
4.5 years since the OP posted this and 3 years since the last post.
The OPs complaint about the dreams druid was that it was level 10 before you got a decent feature and you don't want to go though 9 levels of weak character, something you completley avoided by starting at level 13.
As others posted even at lower levels dreams isn't as bad as he claimed. He said Balm of the summer court can be replaced with healing word. Even if this was true being able to cast healing word a number of times a day equal to your level is not insignificant but the fact that it isn't a spell is huge, as you can use it with your bonus action and still cast a levelled spell with your action.
So? It's awesome imo have an awesome day!