Why is the samurai assumed to have 16 DEX in your comparison? Yes, EA is a feat, but it's a half-feat that can give a +1 into DEX. If you build a samurai that you intend on taking EA from the start, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot to NOT start with 17 in DEX.
You are right about dex. I changed the numbers to reflect 18 dexterity.
I did not include action surge. Action surge simply doubles the number of attacks, so it will double the damage on the turn you use it. You are right that using action surge along with your fighting spirit makes the most sense. That is single turn nova strike damage though and to accurately compare I think you would need to consider the other two subclasses using Arcane shot and battlemaster maneuvers besides precision as it would be a disservice to them not to use those as well
If you are doing Nova numbers. If we compare a Samaraui using Action Surge and fighting spirit to an arcane archer using action surge with shadow arrow with a DC 13 and a +2 save and a battlemaster using menacing attack and precision any time it is less than 8 difference on a miss:
AC 13:
Samauri : 72 Damage
Arcane Archer (vs multiple enemies): uses average of 1.9 Arcane shots and averages 79 damage
Battlemaster: uses average of 3.8 battlemaster dice and averages 74 damage
AC 18:
Samauri : 56 Damage
Arcane Archer (vs multiple enemies): uses average of 1.6 Arcane shots and averages 55 damage
Battlemaster: uses average of 3 battlemaster dice and averages 51 damage
AC 22:
Samauri : 31 Damage
Arcane Archer (vs multiple enemies): uses average of 0.8 Arcane shots and averages 26 damage
Battlemaster: uses average of 2.2 battlemaster dice and averages 32 damage
Note these numbers do not consider quick toss. If the battlemaster has quick toss he can use a bonus action to throw a dart (which qualifies for sharpshooter) and boost his nova damage substantially.
Great analysis, ECMO3. Numbers do not lie — there are almost no difference on damage among those builds. We can discuss some versatility offered by battlemaster maneuvers or more tankiness offered by fighting spirit, but…
Arcane Archers are superior because Grasping Arrow gives a hard time to enemies making them waste their turn. It is also an exponential force multiplier alongside a party optimized around forced movement.
The only drawback of Arcane Archer is that you’ll be an one-trick pony and you’ll probably get bored after some time. My current build is a Wood Elf and I got Wood Elf Magic at level 8 to increase my versatility. More levels of Warlock can also bring some other options as well.
I went Wood Elf Fighter; Acrobatics, Animal Handling, and Archery; 8/17/14/10/14/12; Chaotic Good Noble; Leather, Longbow, 20 arrows, 2 shortswords, 2 handaxes, Explorer's Pack. (And plan on purchasing Studded Leather at the first opportunity).
This, plus Battle Master at level 3 (Ambush, Disarming Attack, Precision), Elven Accuracy at level 4, and Sharpshooter at level 6 will establish the baseline of the character both for role-playing purposes and encounter mechanics.
From there, both campaign and DM style will determine whether or not I dip into Gloom Stalker Ranger and/or Rogue Scout.
If you want to use Elven Accuracy, it is pretty hard to beat Champion. The Improved critical synergies with Elven Accuracy the way 1980 businessmen claimed their business proposals did. I.e. Criting on 19-20 is a 10% thing if you do not have advantage. It is closer to 20% with advantage, but rises near 30% with Elven Accuracy.
Then the trick becomes getting advantage as an Elven Archer. If only an elf subclass (Drow) gave you faerie fire. Or a feat (Magical Initiate) let you learn the spell Find Familiar to do a Flyby Help action. Or if there was a way to hide consistently (take 2 levels of Rogue to hide as a bonus action oh, and you get sneak attack too...).
Then the trick becomes getting advantage as an Elven Archer. If only an elf subclass (Drow) gave you faerie fire. Or a feat (Magical Initiate) let you learn the spell Find Familiar to do a Flyby Help action. Or if there was a way to hide consistently (take 2 levels of Rogue to hide as a bonus action oh, and you get sneak attack too...).
It is important to note that a familiar and cunning action can only give you advantage for one attack a round, and they can't even do that reliably.
A familiar's advantage is only if the familiar has enough movement to get into position to use the help action and only starting on the second turn of combat unless it beats you in initiative and even then only until it is killed (which is not going to be very long if it is helping every turn). A Rogue is a bit more reliable but needs on a stealth check. This is both not automatic and requires a way to become obscured.
Faerie Fire is great, but it takes an action, which takes away your attacks and they need to fail the save which is not going to be that hard since you are not using ASIs in charisma most likely. Considering the save and the low charisma it will usually not be a great trade for the lost attacks.
The most reliable way to get advantage on an elven fighter would be a drow with Eldritch Adept feat and Devil's sight. This is not the most party-friendly though.
The build just has one single dip in Warlock, then the rest is all Fighter - your statement that of not being an Arcane Archer does not make sense at all.
Of course it does. If you say "I have a level 10 fighter" but it's actually just nine levels of fighter and one level of Warlock then you don't really have a level 10 Fighter, now do you? The point is that to even make the AA viable you need to have it be something else than an Arcane Archer. What you are saying isn't "Arcane Archer is fantastic", the truth is actually that "This AA build is relying on multiclassing into Warlock to be fantastic."
To be honest, Grasping Arrow is so crazy good and effective that it’s actually workable even without Daolock and Crusher feat, specially if you are facing melee enemies that would need to move to get you into their reach, therefore triggering the ability. Numbers are there to support. It’s better than CBE / SS with high control potential.
Totally circumstantial. The fact that you can only do it to one opponent at a time and that you only have two uses between rests makes it rather meh.
Different from Battlemaster maneuvers that usually have a duration of 1 round. Grasping Arrow has a duration of 1 minute. I agree two per rest is not ideal, but this is an ability that can win encounters by itself. It was made to kill BBEGs, not minions. It’s an Athletics check that could be rolled with disadvantage because of Hex. Do you realize that legendary/magic resistance do not affect this roll because it’s an ability check and not a saving throw? Yes, your mighty Wizard/Cleric buddies suffering because their awesome Hypnotic Pattern/Spirit Guardians are not being effective against powerful enemies who roll saving throws with advantage or simply choose to pass will envy your humble Grasping Arrow causing lots of damage and potentiality making them waste their action.
Grasping Arrow is a hidden gem that it’s powerful alone. My proposed build just potencialize their capacity.
Grasping arrow isn't bad but it's doesn't make the AA as good as you think it does. How many things have resistance and/or immunity to poison? That's half the damage gone already. The slashing damage only activates when it moves without teleporting. So it just stays and fights, like most monsters are want to do. Or it teleports, as many other monsters can do. Add to this how MAD your build is. You need at least Cha and Dex 13 and to get the DC up to your 13/14 you need an Int of at 14 (unless you want to wait until higher levels where creatures have more HP and are more likely to have teleportation magic) so are you going to let your Dex or Con suffer?
Oh, it's also a magical effect so it can easily be dispelled.
I went Wood Elf Fighter; Acrobatics, Animal Handling, and Archery; 8/17/14/10/14/12; Chaotic Good Noble; Leather, Longbow, 20 arrows, 2 shortswords, 2 handaxes, Explorer's Pack. (And plan on purchasing Studded Leather at the first opportunity).
This, plus Battle Master at level 3 (Ambush, Disarming Attack, Precision), Elven Accuracy at level 4, and Sharpshooter at level 6 will establish the baseline of the character both for role-playing purposes and encounter mechanics.
From there, both campaign and DM style will determine whether or not I dip into Gloom Stalker Ranger and/or Rogue Scout.
Sounds like a great character that has some abilities outside of combat as well. I hope you have a good time playing it. :)
Sounds like a great character that has some abilities outside of combat as well. I hope you have a good time playing it. :)
(Makes Perception Check) "How on earth did you not notice these runes, they are there as clear as midnight!" "So what do they say?" (Fails Intelligence Check) "There were going to teach these runes to me the day I snuck out of the palace at daybreak, played tag and hide and seek with the local Goblin kids, and had to distract my cousin on watch so they could slip away after our game. You are a Wizard. Do your. . .Wizard things."
(Makes Perception Check) "See, there is a map here in the rock face." (Fails Intelligence Check) "But it does not make any sense - it is saying we need to go back the way we came." "Did you think that the map might be upside down? Let me guess, you snuck out again to play with the Goblin kids when they were teaching orienteering." "No, that was the day that I snuck out of the palace after breakfast to go hunting, heard a great howling an hour out, found a Dire Wolf in a snare, fed it a rabbit to gain its trust, and cut the snare." "A DIRE WOLF! Why on earth did you not kill it?" "Why would I? It was hunting rabbits. Just like me."
I honestly think it's pretty easy to beat Champion. Crit fishing sounds like a strong build but it really isn't. If you want to build a character all about doing big crits then then you're better off doing a smite build with Hold Person or something like that. The versatility other subclasses offer easily beats any Champion build.
You just said "I think I can do better but won't show how". Put your money where your mouth is and show your build. Then prove that elven accuracy makes sense for the build, because honestly, that is what an elven archer is all about. Otherwise, not much reason to make it elven archery, it is an inferior feat...
The reason crit fishing with Champion is the way to go is that Elven Accuracy by itself is NOT worth it. The math says it adds very little chance of hitting - except when you are going up against a creature you can't hit without a 20. Against weaklings, it guarantees a hit - but you will kill them anyway. Against creature that are tough to hit, it is the equivalent of a +1, maybe +2 at the most.
Also, advantage, let alone triple advantage is not a good idea for a smite build. Instead you want more attacks, as you can smite on two separate attacks. Yes, you can try for both, but resource economy means you just wasted all the abilities you want for something else
The only real way to make elven accuracy worth while is if you pile on top of it in some manner. Crit fishing does that well. So does Sneak Attack because you can only sneak attack once per round - so more hits do not matter, while more chances to hit does.
Champion builds are also flexible because the crit improvements, HP etc. apply to ANY weapon. You can put down longbow and pick up a rapier (still got elven accuracy, use Dex).
If you want to use Elven Accuracy, it is pretty hard to beat Champion. The Improved critical synergies with Elven Accuracy the way 1980 businessmen claimed their business proposals did. I.e. Criting on 19-20 is a 10% thing if you do not have advantage. It is closer to 20% with advantage, but rises near 30% with Elven Accuracy.
Then the trick becomes getting advantage as an Elven Archer. If only an elf subclass (Drow) gave you faerie fire. Or a feat (Magical Initiate) let you learn the spell Find Familiar to do a Flyby Help action. Or if there was a way to hide consistently (take 2 levels of Rogue to hide as a bonus action oh, and you get sneak attack too...).
On paper, it sounds really cool to think "Oh boy, expanded crit range AND triple advantage?! Hoo doggy, we cookin' with gas now!" but.... It's not that big a deal. So, you crit just a little bit more. Big whoop, an extra d8 or d10 on your attacks every now and then is hardly what I'd call "hard to beat."
Now, the issues I see with picking a drow for faerie fire include having a DC that might be kinda crappy as you level up (you're not increasing CHA on a fighter archer build without a 3 lvl investment into hexblade), and that it includes a whole action to set up. Sure, you can build around these limitations by having your drow fighter start with 17 DEX and 16 CHA, and maybe 14 CON's okay in your opinion. But that static casting modifier is going to haunt you sooner or later, one way or another.
Let's assume we have a drow champion archer, with sharp shooter, elven accuracy, and 20 DEX. lvl 8. Let's compare against an elven samurai with the same specs, and let's assume the fight lasts 4 rounds, and against a target with 18 AC which is pretty reasonable for lvl 8.
round 1, samurai would open up with fighting spirit and action surge for 62 DPR right out the gate. In that same round, the drow would have to set up with faerie fire.
round 2, samurai will do 16 DPR, and the same for the rest of the turns. Total DPR is 109, or in four rounds 27.25 adjusted just to be fair.
But, if the faerie fire sticks, round 2, 3, and 4 will have advantage. round 2, the drow will action surge to get the most out of their advantage and do 66 DPR, and 33 DPR from there on out for rounds 3 and 4. Averaged out in the four rounds, you have 33 DPR even! it beats out the samurai by almost 6 DPR. However, that's only if faerie fire sticks the whole time uninterrupted, and even at that it's only for one encounter per long rest. The samurai can still generate advantage two more times, and a little later one, once every combat guaranteed no matter what.
Other issues include that your other suggestions can affect a fighter's ability too harshly. Campaigns that go to 11, like most, mean that if you dip even a single level into another class, you'll never see a fighter's third extra attack. That WILL greatly affect your champion's DPR compared to a purebred. So, the rogue's not a good idea. magic initiate for find familiar sounds cool, but that's just moving more factors out of your pc's control. At anytime can your familiar get killed, it's easy for that to happen especially if you have it get in there for the sake of generating advantage. If it dies, you only get one cast of find familiar per day to bring it back. Also, needless to say, that was a feat/asi slot. An elven archer with SS and EA and MI means you're stuck with 18 DEX. Again, in the long run, the samurai archer wins out. Plus, it gets free wisdom save proficiency and better social roleplay due to elegant courtier.
I do want to iterate that I don't think a champion archer is bad, not at all. I like your build. But better than tried and true Battle Master and Samurai? Not a chance.
Totally circumstantial. The fact that you can only do it to one opponent at a time and that you only have two uses between rests makes it rather meh.
Two uses per short rest, there is no save and on top of high initial damage it restricts movement and requires a check (not a save) to cancel it. It is a pretty powerful maneuver and the damge is high.
Compare 2 uses of grasping arrow which is a minimum of 4d6 at level 3 with much higher very high top end damage, and an effect which lasts multiple turns, compared with 4 uses of battlemaster maneuvers which is a maximum of 4d8 at level 3 and generally lasts one turn and only then on a failed save. The higher damage for a single use makes it more effective with crit fishing.
Grasping arrow isn't bad but it's doesn't make the AA as good as you think it does. How many things have resistance and/or immunity to poison?
I think there are more things with resistance to non-magical piercing, bludgeoning or slashing than there are to poison and non-magic weapon damage is what most of the battlemaster maneuvers do. As a counter balance, there is almost nothing resistant to magical piercing which is what the movement damage on grasping arrow is.
Second, Grasping arrow is by far the most effective Arcane Shot generally, but you get a 2nd arrow too. If what you are fighting can teleport or doesn't need to move you can use that other shot which will do another type of damage (force to multiple enemies for bursting arrow, psychic for shadow arrow or beguiling arrow ....) that damage is also automatic and the secondary effect, is generally more powerful than comparable battlemaster maneuvers. So you can pick which arrow you use based on the circumstances
Third, you can combine these. Grasping arrow is generally least effective when an enemy is already in melee and does not have to move. If that is the case with extra attack you can hit him with beguiling arrow and then follow it with grasping arrow. On one turn he takes 4d6 extra damage save or not (or less if resistant/immune to poision), but he has to move to attack someone else. Shadow arrow works well for this too. There are great combos with shadow arrow too.
I do agree that in normal, every day fights, Battlemaster/Samurai will beat a Champion build. But in those cases you do not want or need Elven Accuracy. Yes, it will increase damage some, but not as much as another feat or ability. Better off with some other feat that will help out someplace else.
The problem comes about when you face the big bad guy that is so tough you do not dare use Sharpshooter. Cases where you need an 17 or higher to hit. In those cases you want Elven Accuracy and you want the crit boost to do real damage, and you are even willing to give up a 3rd attack in order to get an extra 1d6 on your first hit. Yes, then Elven accuracy helps either class, but it really helps the Champion while the Battlemaster/Samurai just get a minor bonus.
Also, by the time you are talking a third attack, the Champion you should have a magic weapon, so it is not +1d6 on a crit. You should have found a Vicious bow, (adds damage on a crit)or better yet one of the Dragon bows from FTD that either add +1d6 damage or add damage on nat 20 Crit.
This is not a build for some mid gamers that stop when you hit level 12 and say "Oh well, I can't do better than that." No. We go all the way.
You do not need a good build to beat an army of kobolds. You need this build to beat the 20th level Big Bad Fighter who has been foiling your plans all along. He has magical full plate, a Dancing Shield, and oh yeah, turns out he is really a demon lord.
When you are down to your last hp and you pull out the massive natural 20 because of Elven Accuracy and crit for massive damage with your artifact bow, then you thank god you choose Champion. And he says your welcome, cause he was really interested in watching this battle.
Listen, I play mostly AL. I have many lvl 20 characters who I've decked out with legendary items out the wazoo. I've got builds and items that could be considered the meta. There's no need to tell me about "mid gamers" or "high gaming" or whatever. but I've played enough homebrew to know most campaigns fizzle out before 12.
You also can't say what magic items you'll have by any level. I would love to say by lvl 5 you should have a +1 weapon, but that's not possible to know. Likewise, you cannot state "you should have a vicious bow by lvl 11." Even if you had +3 bow, well, you'd still add 1d6 to your crits. Mind you, vicious weapons do not get their bonus damage if you crit, but explicitly state you must roll a 20 on the die so a champion's expanded crit range doesn't even affect it. The champion only benefits from EA as long as there is a source of advantage, but it lacks the means to do so consistently whereas the others either don't need it or can generate it independently.
But hey, I showed my math. I showed in some circumstances, champion can exceed. But it's very circumstantial, with more "but's" and "if's." And anyone that knows anything about theorycrafting understands that the more conditions have to be met, the more an idea is prone to failure. So, If we're going to talk about high levels and going all the way, it should be mentioned the math skews in favor of the samurai all the way once you factor in your second action surge at 17th level. At that point, either the champion still doesn't have that feature yet due to multiclassing, or is still behind due to needing an action for faerie fire. You can activate fighting spirit for both those rounds. Heck, thanks to swift strikes, your DPR shoots up even higher. You can make 5 attacks with advantage, and 2 without, or choose to keep all 6 hits with advantage.
But wait, there's more! When you're ACTUALLY down to your last HP, samurai gets the job done. If you get KO'd, no problem, just take your turn immediately and get another whole round right there on the spot.
Ah, that's the problem. You play Adventure League. Designed for people that do not have a regular game, allowing you to do pick up games. Rules even stricter than RAW.
In that situation:
Harder to find people with a high level character, so games get scarcer as you level up. So you just retire
Rare magic items, no place to buy or sell them (Totally unrealistic, super valuable items get sold all the time, yeah WoTC dislikes, but players and DMs prefer buying/selling)
No long term thematic year long focus on main Big Bad Guys.
Basically you have a very different game than the original game system. Of the last 6 groups I played in, 4 made it to level 20.
Traditional Games (1 DM, meets at least one time a month):
Last for years
No one ever wants to stop before you hit 20 as you fall in love with the characters and do not want to go back to 1st.
Slowly grows more and more powerful
Definitely has the chance to buy some magic items, often has the chance to custom order a magic item then pick it up months later (game time, may be years later real - sucks all that loot away from the mid game player and he may end up never using the item he paid for ahead of time)
Usually has some house rules where the DM disagrees with WoTC ( often the DM makes it worse, not a better game, but hey, it happens)
Much of the game is focused on hugely powerful Villains. If it is not the god-like behind the scenes villain it is the re-occuring villains that have to keep growing in power to keep up with the players.
You and I do not really play the same game. You are heavily concerned with things that do not happen to me and I am working hard to do things that you would never consider. You are shocked that I can get a specific magic item while I find the idea of not having a specific desired magic item by 12th level to be silly. You stop playing (I think because you cannot find a game at that level) when I finally have the build I have been working on for a long time.
Add to this how MAD your build is. You need at least Cha and Dex 13 and to get the DC up to your 13/14 you need an Int of at 14 (unless you want to wait until higher levels where creatures have more HP and are more likely to have teleportation magic) so are you going to let your Dex or Con suffer?
There is no save against grasping arrow. The enemy can use an action to try to escape with a check not a save. Gioving up a whole action is a big deal even if it is an automatic. That said being a MAD build could lower the DC for the check, however Hex will give disadvantage on the check. So the multiclass will usually make escaping more difficult due to the disadvantage even though the DC will be lower.
Being MAD might nerf the other arcane shots but a Warlock multiclass will not generally be a nerf for Grasping Arrow, it will be an improvement even with a low intelligence.
Personally though I do not do the Warlock multiclass on AA builds. I take a Human with Fey touched and Hex (Hexblood would also be good). That gives me a teleport once a day if I get caught in melee and gives me Hex to enhance my grasping arrows and boost damage, while also having a high DC on all my arrows. If I am going to dip it is probably be in Wizard to get more slots for Hex as well as Absorb Elements, Shield and rituals.
Finally another option on a human is to forego archery and take superior technique fighting style along with fighting initiate feat. Now you have 2 battlemaster maneuvers to go with your 2 arcane shots and you can stack them (you can only use one arcane shot and one battlemaster maneuver on a single attack but there is nothing saying you can't use one of each). This changes the build from a sustained high-damage damage build to more of a nova and control build. Since you can change maneuvers every 4 levels you can change them out as you level, but you probably always have pushing attack which works really well with GA - on a single shot that is 5d6 extra damage if he fails his pushing save (which is a dex based DC) - 2d6 poision, 1d6 pushing maneuver, 2d6 peircing on the movement.
Oh, it's also a magical effect so it can easily be dispelled.
I question how easily it can be dispelled. An anti-magic field like from a beholder ray will supress it but will not dispel it. The Dispel magic spell will not end grasping arrow because it is not a spell and dispel magic can not end magical effects that are not spells.
Also because it is a magical effect the piercing damage is magical, so overall this is a boost in most cases.
I believe sfPanzer and ECMO3 pretty much nailed all the questionings, but just some food for thought:
- The true benefit of Grasping Arrow is a mix of solid damage that is easily triggered + the pressure enemies will have on risking waste their action to get rid of it. - Even if all enemies we fight through a campaign are resistant or immune to poison, for the reasons above, Grasping Arrow will be a no-brainer. +2d6 magical slashing is no joke. - Of course you will need some coordination with your party to make the most of Grasping Arrow. But believe or not, this ability is a tremendous force multiplier even if your party is full of melee warriors! Why? Because there are several ways to make your enemy to move. - Last party I played had two dedicated full melee characters: a quintessential Barbarian with Tavern Brawler and a Paladin with PAM. Barbs always attacked two times regularly and then tried to grapple some enemy. Poor bastard affected by Grasping Arrow + Hex had a hard time to escape and always took 2d6 because our Barbarian dragged him down 1 foot. Paladin was just playing around, attacking with 10 ft reach, stepping back and forcing enemies to enter his reach again, triggering PAM OA + 2d6 from Grasping Arrow.
Is it a 100% applicable foolproof tactic? Of course not. Some monster have reach also, some monsters have teleport, other monsters have ranged capabilities. But boy… I can say at least 85%+ of encounters my Arcane Archer was capable to effectively shut down at least one dangerous enemy in the same fashion a Wizard casting big powerful spells would do.
The only problem was that I felt my character was a one-trick pony and doing the same thing over and over starts getting boring, even if this one thing is effectively amazing. Hence I tried to improve my repertoire with Wood Elf Magic, getting more levels in Warlock and etc.
Different from Battlemaster maneuvers that usually have a duration of 1 round. Grasping Arrow has a duration of 1 minute. I agree two per rest is not ideal, but this is an ability that can win encounters by itself. It was made to kill BBEGs, not minions. It’s an Athletics check that could be rolled with disadvantage because of Hex. Do you realize that legendary/magic resistance do not affect this roll because it’s an ability check and not a saving throw? Yes, your mighty Wizard/Cleric buddies suffering because their awesome Hypnotic Pattern/Spirit Guardians are not being effective against powerful enemies who roll saving throws with advantage or simply choose to pass will envy your humble Grasping Arrow causing lots of damage and potentiality making them waste their action.
Grasping Arrow is a hidden gem that it’s powerful alone. My proposed build just potencialize their capacity.
Grasping arrow isn't bad but it's doesn't make the AA as good as you think it does. How many things have resistance and/or immunity to poison? That's half the damage gone already. The slashing damage only activates when it moves without teleporting. So it just stays and fights, like most monsters are want to do. Or it teleports, as many other monsters can do. Add to this how MAD your build is. You need at least Cha and Dex 13 and to get the DC up to your 13/14 you need an Int of at 14 (unless you want to wait until higher levels where creatures have more HP and are more likely to have teleportation magic) so are you going to let your Dex or Con suffer?
Oh, it's also a magical effect so it can easily be dispelled.
I don't know what kind of white room scenario you're imagining here but this is rarely the case unless your whole party consists of Fighters and Barbarians that don't do anything else than using basic attacks.
No white room scenario more than the original suggestion so no need to strawman. :)
With your kind of arguing spells like Spike Growth and such are terrible as well (hint: they aren't).
Again, no need for strawmen. :)
And no, just one level dip into Warlock doesn't make this build not being an Arcane Archer build.
Of course it does. It's a multiclassed character. That's what "multiclass" means.
It just optimizes it with multiclassing. At its core it's still an Arcane Archer.
...that still relies on multiclassing to be good. Which means that you can't say that AA is as good as it's claimed to be since it requires something that isn't the AA.
If you're a purist that doesn't accept multiclassing for whatever reason then that's on you but then you also gotta accept that you're playing this game differently than the vast majority of people.
I've never claimed anything of the sorts so again, please don't strawman.
It's not THAT MAD either. A 13 in a bunch of stats is not a whole lot and you don't need an incredibly high INT for a working Arcane Archer build. Your main focus is DEX. You are a martial, not a caster. Not to mention that as Fighter you have more ASIs than anyone else.
Having a 13 in more than three abilities IS MAD. And having only a 13 only gives you a +1 modifier which isn't very good.
You want to dispel it? Great! A wasted Action AND a wasted spell. That's great value for your short rest magic arrow!
The spell sin't wasted. Maybe read up on what Dispel Magic actually does? ;)
Totally circumstantial. The fact that you can only do it to one opponent at a time and that you only have two uses between rests makes it rather meh.
Two uses per short rest, there is no save and on top of high initial damage it restricts movement and requires a check (not a save) to cancel it. It is a pretty powerful maneuver and the damge is high.
It only restricts movement if the target actually wants to move, which isn't neccesarily the case. As mentioned, the DC will be quite low. It's not as great as it is proclaimed to be.
Compare 2 uses of grasping arrow which is a minimum of 4d6 at level 3 with much higher very high top end damage, and an effect which lasts multiple turns, compared with 4 uses of battlemaster maneuvers which is a maximum of 4d8 at level 3 and generally lasts one turn and only then on a failed save. The higher damage for a single use makes it more effective with crit fishing.
But at the same time you only have two chances to succeed and then you are out so it's not sustainable and not very reliable.
Grasping arrow isn't bad but it's doesn't make the AA as good as you think it does. How many things have resistance and/or immunity to poison?
I think there are more things with resistance to non-magical piercing, bludgeoning or slashing than there are to poison and non-magic weapon damage is what most of the battlemaster maneuvers do. As a counter balance, there is almost nothing resistant to magical piercing which is what the movement damage on grasping arrow is.
No it doesn't. Also, just because the battle master maneuvers have their weaknesses doesn't mean that the weaknesses of the Arcane Shots go away.
Second, Grasping arrow is by far the most effective Arcane Shot generally, but you get a 2nd arrow too. If what you are fighting can teleport or doesn't need to move you can use that other shot which will do another type of damage (force to multiple enemies for bursting arrow, psychic for shadow arrow or beguiling arrow ....) that damage is also automatic and the secondary effect, is generally more powerful than comparable battlemaster maneuvers. So you can pick which arrow you use based on the circumstances
You still only have two shots. Which isn't much.
Third, you can combine these. Grasping arrow is generally least effective when an enemy is already in melee and does not have to move. If that is the case with extra attack you can hit him with beguiling arrow and then follow it with grasping arrow. On one turn he takes 4d6 extra damage save or not (or less if resistant/immune to poision), but he has to move to attack someone else. Shadow arrow works well for this too. There are great combos with shadow arrow too.
Add to this how MAD your build is. You need at least Cha and Dex 13 and to get the DC up to your 13/14 you need an Int of at 14 (unless you want to wait until higher levels where creatures have more HP and are more likely to have teleportation magic) so are you going to let your Dex or Con suffer?
There is no save against grasping arrow.
There is still a DC...
The enemy can use an action to try to escape with a check not a save. Gioving up a whole action is a big deal even if it is an automatic. That said being a MAD build could lower the DC for the check, however Hex will give disadvantage on the check. So the multiclass will usually make escaping more difficult due to the disadvantage even though the DC will be lower.
Being MAD might nerf the other arcane shots but a Warlock multiclass will not generally be a nerf for Grasping Arrow, it will be an improvement even with a low intelligence.
So you basically have to choose between being a one trick pony or be less not be as nerfed?
Personally though I do not do the Warlock multiclass on AA builds. I take a Human with Fey touched and Hex (Hexblood would also be good). That gives me a teleport once a day if I get caught in melee and gives me Hex to enhance my grasping arrows and boost damage, while also having a high DC on all my arrows. If I am going to dip it is probably be in Wizard to get more slots for Hex as well as Absorb Elements, Shield and rituals.
Less MAD is usually better, yes. :)
Finally another option on a human is to forego archery and take superior technique fighting style along with fighting initiate feat. Now you have 2 battlemaster maneuvers to go with your 2 arcane shots and you can stack them (you can only use one arcane shot and one battlemaster maneuver on a single attack but there is nothing saying you can't use one of each). This changes the build from a sustained high-damage damage build to more of a nova and control build. Since you can change maneuvers every 4 levels you can change them out as you level, but you probably always have pushing attack which works really well with GA - on a single shot that is 5d6 extra damage if he fails his pushing save (which is a dex based DC) - 2d6 poision, 1d6 pushing maneuver, 2d6 peircing on the movement.
Slashing, but OK. ;)
Oh, it's also a magical effect so it can easily be dispelled.
I question how easily it can be dispelled. An anti-magic field like from a beholder ray will supress it but will not dispel it. The Dispel magic spell will not end grasping arrow because it is not a spell and dispel magic can not end magical effects that are not spells.
Also because it is a magical effect the piercing damage is magical, so overall this is a boost in most cases.
The only problem was that I felt my character was a one-trick pony and doing the same thing over and over starts getting boring, even if this one thing is effectively amazing. Hence I tried to improve my repertoire with Wood Elf Magic, getting more levels in Warlock and etc.
...and like I've said, being a one-trick pony does not a good subclass make. The sheer versatility of the other subclasses compared to the, well, one trick speaks for itself.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
You are right about dex. I changed the numbers to reflect 18 dexterity.
I did not include action surge. Action surge simply doubles the number of attacks, so it will double the damage on the turn you use it. You are right that using action surge along with your fighting spirit makes the most sense. That is single turn nova strike damage though and to accurately compare I think you would need to consider the other two subclasses using Arcane shot and battlemaster maneuvers besides precision as it would be a disservice to them not to use those as well
If you are doing Nova numbers. If we compare a Samaraui using Action Surge and fighting spirit to an arcane archer using action surge with shadow arrow with a DC 13 and a +2 save and a battlemaster using menacing attack and precision any time it is less than 8 difference on a miss:
AC 13:
Samauri : 72 Damage
Arcane Archer (vs multiple enemies): uses average of 1.9 Arcane shots and averages 79 damage
Battlemaster: uses average of 3.8 battlemaster dice and averages 74 damage
AC 18:
Samauri : 56 Damage
Arcane Archer (vs multiple enemies): uses average of 1.6 Arcane shots and averages 55 damage
Battlemaster: uses average of 3 battlemaster dice and averages 51 damage
AC 22:
Samauri : 31 Damage
Arcane Archer (vs multiple enemies): uses average of 0.8 Arcane shots and averages 26 damage
Battlemaster: uses average of 2.2 battlemaster dice and averages 32 damage
Note these numbers do not consider quick toss. If the battlemaster has quick toss he can use a bonus action to throw a dart (which qualifies for sharpshooter) and boost his nova damage substantially.
Great analysis, ECMO3. Numbers do not lie — there are almost no difference on damage among those builds. We can discuss some versatility offered by battlemaster maneuvers or more tankiness offered by fighting spirit, but…
Arcane Archers are superior because Grasping Arrow gives a hard time to enemies making them waste their turn. It is also an exponential force multiplier alongside a party optimized around forced movement.
The only drawback of Arcane Archer is that you’ll be an one-trick pony and you’ll probably get bored after some time. My current build is a Wood Elf and I got Wood Elf Magic at level 8 to increase my versatility. More levels of Warlock can also bring some other options as well.
I went Wood Elf Fighter; Acrobatics, Animal Handling, and Archery; 8/17/14/10/14/12; Chaotic Good Noble; Leather, Longbow, 20 arrows, 2 shortswords, 2 handaxes, Explorer's Pack. (And plan on purchasing Studded Leather at the first opportunity).
This, plus Battle Master at level 3 (Ambush, Disarming Attack, Precision), Elven Accuracy at level 4, and Sharpshooter at level 6 will establish the baseline of the character both for role-playing purposes and encounter mechanics.
From there, both campaign and DM style will determine whether or not I dip into Gloom Stalker Ranger and/or Rogue Scout.
Thanks all!
If you want to use Elven Accuracy, it is pretty hard to beat Champion. The Improved critical synergies with Elven Accuracy the way 1980 businessmen claimed their business proposals did. I.e. Criting on 19-20 is a 10% thing if you do not have advantage. It is closer to 20% with advantage, but rises near 30% with Elven Accuracy.
Then the trick becomes getting advantage as an Elven Archer. If only an elf subclass (Drow) gave you faerie fire. Or a feat (Magical Initiate) let you learn the spell Find Familiar to do a Flyby Help action. Or if there was a way to hide consistently (take 2 levels of Rogue to hide as a bonus action oh, and you get sneak attack too...).
It is important to note that a familiar and cunning action can only give you advantage for one attack a round, and they can't even do that reliably.
A familiar's advantage is only if the familiar has enough movement to get into position to use the help action and only starting on the second turn of combat unless it beats you in initiative and even then only until it is killed (which is not going to be very long if it is helping every turn). A Rogue is a bit more reliable but needs on a stealth check. This is both not automatic and requires a way to become obscured.
Faerie Fire is great, but it takes an action, which takes away your attacks and they need to fail the save which is not going to be that hard since you are not using ASIs in charisma most likely. Considering the save and the low charisma it will usually not be a great trade for the lost attacks.
The most reliable way to get advantage on an elven fighter would be a drow with Eldritch Adept feat and Devil's sight. This is not the most party-friendly though.
Of course it does. If you say "I have a level 10 fighter" but it's actually just nine levels of fighter and one level of Warlock then you don't really have a level 10 Fighter, now do you? The point is that to even make the AA viable you need to have it be something else than an Arcane Archer. What you are saying isn't "Arcane Archer is fantastic", the truth is actually that "This AA build is relying on multiclassing into Warlock to be fantastic."
Totally circumstantial. The fact that you can only do it to one opponent at a time and that you only have two uses between rests makes it rather meh.
Grasping arrow isn't bad but it's doesn't make the AA as good as you think it does. How many things have resistance and/or immunity to poison? That's half the damage gone already. The slashing damage only activates when it moves without teleporting. So it just stays and fights, like most monsters are want to do. Or it teleports, as many other monsters can do.
Add to this how MAD your build is. You need at least Cha and Dex 13 and to get the DC up to your 13/14 you need an Int of at 14 (unless you want to wait until higher levels where creatures have more HP and are more likely to have teleportation magic) so are you going to let your Dex or Con suffer?
Oh, it's also a magical effect so it can easily be dispelled.
Sounds like a great character that has some abilities outside of combat as well. I hope you have a good time playing it. :)
(Makes Perception Check)
"How on earth did you not notice these runes, they are there as clear as midnight!"
"So what do they say?"
(Fails Intelligence Check)
"There were going to teach these runes to me the day I snuck out of the palace at daybreak, played tag and hide and seek with the local Goblin kids, and had to distract my cousin on watch so they could slip away after our game. You are a Wizard. Do your. . .Wizard things."
(Makes Perception Check)
"See, there is a map here in the rock face."
(Fails Intelligence Check)
"But it does not make any sense - it is saying we need to go back the way we came."
"Did you think that the map might be upside down? Let me guess, you snuck out again to play with the Goblin kids when they were teaching orienteering."
"No, that was the day that I snuck out of the palace after breakfast to go hunting, heard a great howling an hour out, found a Dire Wolf in a snare, fed it a rabbit to gain its trust, and cut the snare."
"A DIRE WOLF! Why on earth did you not kill it?"
"Why would I? It was hunting rabbits. Just like me."
You just said "I think I can do better but won't show how". Put your money where your mouth is and show your build. Then prove that elven accuracy makes sense for the build, because honestly, that is what an elven archer is all about. Otherwise, not much reason to make it elven archery, it is an inferior feat...
The reason crit fishing with Champion is the way to go is that Elven Accuracy by itself is NOT worth it. The math says it adds very little chance of hitting - except when you are going up against a creature you can't hit without a 20. Against weaklings, it guarantees a hit - but you will kill them anyway. Against creature that are tough to hit, it is the equivalent of a +1, maybe +2 at the most.
Also, advantage, let alone triple advantage is not a good idea for a smite build. Instead you want more attacks, as you can smite on two separate attacks. Yes, you can try for both, but resource economy means you just wasted all the abilities you want for something else
The only real way to make elven accuracy worth while is if you pile on top of it in some manner. Crit fishing does that well. So does Sneak Attack because you can only sneak attack once per round - so more hits do not matter, while more chances to hit does.
Champion builds are also flexible because the crit improvements, HP etc. apply to ANY weapon. You can put down longbow and pick up a rapier (still got elven accuracy, use Dex).
On paper, it sounds really cool to think "Oh boy, expanded crit range AND triple advantage?! Hoo doggy, we cookin' with gas now!" but.... It's not that big a deal. So, you crit just a little bit more. Big whoop, an extra d8 or d10 on your attacks every now and then is hardly what I'd call "hard to beat."
Now, the issues I see with picking a drow for faerie fire include having a DC that might be kinda crappy as you level up (you're not increasing CHA on a fighter archer build without a 3 lvl investment into hexblade), and that it includes a whole action to set up. Sure, you can build around these limitations by having your drow fighter start with 17 DEX and 16 CHA, and maybe 14 CON's okay in your opinion. But that static casting modifier is going to haunt you sooner or later, one way or another.
Let's assume we have a drow champion archer, with sharp shooter, elven accuracy, and 20 DEX. lvl 8. Let's compare against an elven samurai with the same specs, and let's assume the fight lasts 4 rounds, and against a target with 18 AC which is pretty reasonable for lvl 8.
round 1, samurai would open up with fighting spirit and action surge for 62 DPR right out the gate. In that same round, the drow would have to set up with faerie fire.
round 2, samurai will do 16 DPR, and the same for the rest of the turns. Total DPR is 109, or in four rounds 27.25 adjusted just to be fair.
But, if the faerie fire sticks, round 2, 3, and 4 will have advantage. round 2, the drow will action surge to get the most out of their advantage and do 66 DPR, and 33 DPR from there on out for rounds 3 and 4. Averaged out in the four rounds, you have 33 DPR even! it beats out the samurai by almost 6 DPR. However, that's only if faerie fire sticks the whole time uninterrupted, and even at that it's only for one encounter per long rest. The samurai can still generate advantage two more times, and a little later one, once every combat guaranteed no matter what.
Other issues include that your other suggestions can affect a fighter's ability too harshly. Campaigns that go to 11, like most, mean that if you dip even a single level into another class, you'll never see a fighter's third extra attack. That WILL greatly affect your champion's DPR compared to a purebred. So, the rogue's not a good idea. magic initiate for find familiar sounds cool, but that's just moving more factors out of your pc's control. At anytime can your familiar get killed, it's easy for that to happen especially if you have it get in there for the sake of generating advantage. If it dies, you only get one cast of find familiar per day to bring it back. Also, needless to say, that was a feat/asi slot. An elven archer with SS and EA and MI means you're stuck with 18 DEX. Again, in the long run, the samurai archer wins out. Plus, it gets free wisdom save proficiency and better social roleplay due to elegant courtier.
I do want to iterate that I don't think a champion archer is bad, not at all. I like your build. But better than tried and true Battle Master and Samurai? Not a chance.
Two uses per short rest, there is no save and on top of high initial damage it restricts movement and requires a check (not a save) to cancel it. It is a pretty powerful maneuver and the damge is high.
Compare 2 uses of grasping arrow which is a minimum of 4d6 at level 3 with much higher very high top end damage, and an effect which lasts multiple turns, compared with 4 uses of battlemaster maneuvers which is a maximum of 4d8 at level 3 and generally lasts one turn and only then on a failed save. The higher damage for a single use makes it more effective with crit fishing.
I think there are more things with resistance to non-magical piercing, bludgeoning or slashing than there are to poison and non-magic weapon damage is what most of the battlemaster maneuvers do. As a counter balance, there is almost nothing resistant to magical piercing which is what the movement damage on grasping arrow is.
Second, Grasping arrow is by far the most effective Arcane Shot generally, but you get a 2nd arrow too. If what you are fighting can teleport or doesn't need to move you can use that other shot which will do another type of damage (force to multiple enemies for bursting arrow, psychic for shadow arrow or beguiling arrow ....) that damage is also automatic and the secondary effect, is generally more powerful than comparable battlemaster maneuvers. So you can pick which arrow you use based on the circumstances
Third, you can combine these. Grasping arrow is generally least effective when an enemy is already in melee and does not have to move. If that is the case with extra attack you can hit him with beguiling arrow and then follow it with grasping arrow. On one turn he takes 4d6 extra damage save or not (or less if resistant/immune to poision), but he has to move to attack someone else. Shadow arrow works well for this too. There are great combos with shadow arrow too.
I do agree that in normal, every day fights, Battlemaster/Samurai will beat a Champion build. But in those cases you do not want or need Elven Accuracy. Yes, it will increase damage some, but not as much as another feat or ability. Better off with some other feat that will help out someplace else.
The problem comes about when you face the big bad guy that is so tough you do not dare use Sharpshooter. Cases where you need an 17 or higher to hit. In those cases you want Elven Accuracy and you want the crit boost to do real damage, and you are even willing to give up a 3rd attack in order to get an extra 1d6 on your first hit. Yes, then Elven accuracy helps either class, but it really helps the Champion while the Battlemaster/Samurai just get a minor bonus.
Also, by the time you are talking a third attack, the Champion you should have a magic weapon, so it is not +1d6 on a crit. You should have found a Vicious bow, (adds damage on a crit)or better yet one of the Dragon bows from FTD that either add +1d6 damage or add damage on nat 20 Crit.
This is not a build for some mid gamers that stop when you hit level 12 and say "Oh well, I can't do better than that." No. We go all the way.
You do not need a good build to beat an army of kobolds. You need this build to beat the 20th level Big Bad Fighter who has been foiling your plans all along. He has magical full plate, a Dancing Shield, and oh yeah, turns out he is really a demon lord.
When you are down to your last hp and you pull out the massive natural 20 because of Elven Accuracy and crit for massive damage with your artifact bow, then you thank god you choose Champion. And he says your welcome, cause he was really interested in watching this battle.
Listen, I play mostly AL. I have many lvl 20 characters who I've decked out with legendary items out the wazoo. I've got builds and items that could be considered the meta. There's no need to tell me about "mid gamers" or "high gaming" or whatever. but I've played enough homebrew to know most campaigns fizzle out before 12.
You also can't say what magic items you'll have by any level. I would love to say by lvl 5 you should have a +1 weapon, but that's not possible to know. Likewise, you cannot state "you should have a vicious bow by lvl 11." Even if you had +3 bow, well, you'd still add 1d6 to your crits. Mind you, vicious weapons do not get their bonus damage if you crit, but explicitly state you must roll a 20 on the die so a champion's expanded crit range doesn't even affect it. The champion only benefits from EA as long as there is a source of advantage, but it lacks the means to do so consistently whereas the others either don't need it or can generate it independently.
But hey, I showed my math. I showed in some circumstances, champion can exceed. But it's very circumstantial, with more "but's" and "if's." And anyone that knows anything about theorycrafting understands that the more conditions have to be met, the more an idea is prone to failure. So, If we're going to talk about high levels and going all the way, it should be mentioned the math skews in favor of the samurai all the way once you factor in your second action surge at 17th level. At that point, either the champion still doesn't have that feature yet due to multiclassing, or is still behind due to needing an action for faerie fire. You can activate fighting spirit for both those rounds. Heck, thanks to swift strikes, your DPR shoots up even higher. You can make 5 attacks with advantage, and 2 without, or choose to keep all 6 hits with advantage.
But wait, there's more! When you're ACTUALLY down to your last HP, samurai gets the job done. If you get KO'd, no problem, just take your turn immediately and get another whole round right there on the spot.
Ah, that's the problem. You play Adventure League. Designed for people that do not have a regular game, allowing you to do pick up games. Rules even stricter than RAW.
In that situation:
Basically you have a very different game than the original game system. Of the last 6 groups I played in, 4 made it to level 20.
Traditional Games (1 DM, meets at least one time a month):
You and I do not really play the same game. You are heavily concerned with things that do not happen to me and I am working hard to do things that you would never consider. You are shocked that I can get a specific magic item while I find the idea of not having a specific desired magic item by 12th level to be silly. You stop playing (I think because you cannot find a game at that level) when I finally have the build I have been working on for a long time.
We will never agree on what works.
There is no save against grasping arrow. The enemy can use an action to try to escape with a check not a save. Gioving up a whole action is a big deal even if it is an automatic. That said being a MAD build could lower the DC for the check, however Hex will give disadvantage on the check. So the multiclass will usually make escaping more difficult due to the disadvantage even though the DC will be lower.
Being MAD might nerf the other arcane shots but a Warlock multiclass will not generally be a nerf for Grasping Arrow, it will be an improvement even with a low intelligence.
Personally though I do not do the Warlock multiclass on AA builds. I take a Human with Fey touched and Hex (Hexblood would also be good). That gives me a teleport once a day if I get caught in melee and gives me Hex to enhance my grasping arrows and boost damage, while also having a high DC on all my arrows. If I am going to dip it is probably be in Wizard to get more slots for Hex as well as Absorb Elements, Shield and rituals.
Finally another option on a human is to forego archery and take superior technique fighting style along with fighting initiate feat. Now you have 2 battlemaster maneuvers to go with your 2 arcane shots and you can stack them (you can only use one arcane shot and one battlemaster maneuver on a single attack but there is nothing saying you can't use one of each). This changes the build from a sustained high-damage damage build to more of a nova and control build. Since you can change maneuvers every 4 levels you can change them out as you level, but you probably always have pushing attack which works really well with GA - on a single shot that is 5d6 extra damage if he fails his pushing save (which is a dex based DC) - 2d6 poision, 1d6 pushing maneuver, 2d6 peircing on the movement.
I question how easily it can be dispelled. An anti-magic field like from a beholder ray will supress it but will not dispel it. The Dispel magic spell will not end grasping arrow because it is not a spell and dispel magic can not end magical effects that are not spells.
Also because it is a magical effect the piercing damage is magical, so overall this is a boost in most cases.
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-march-2016
I believe sfPanzer and ECMO3 pretty much nailed all the questionings, but just some food for thought:
- The true benefit of Grasping Arrow is a mix of solid damage that is easily triggered + the pressure enemies will have on risking waste their action to get rid of it.
- Even if all enemies we fight through a campaign are resistant or immune to poison, for the reasons above, Grasping Arrow will be a no-brainer. +2d6 magical slashing is no joke.
- Of course you will need some coordination with your party to make the most of Grasping Arrow. But believe or not, this ability is a tremendous force multiplier even if your party is full of melee warriors! Why? Because there are several ways to make your enemy to move.
- Last party I played had two dedicated full melee characters: a quintessential Barbarian with Tavern Brawler and a Paladin with PAM. Barbs always attacked two times regularly and then tried to grapple some enemy. Poor bastard affected by Grasping Arrow + Hex had a hard time to escape and always took 2d6 because our Barbarian dragged him down 1 foot. Paladin was just playing around, attacking with 10 ft reach, stepping back and forcing enemies to enter his reach again, triggering PAM OA + 2d6 from Grasping Arrow.
Is it a 100% applicable foolproof tactic? Of course not. Some monster have reach also, some monsters have teleport, other monsters have ranged capabilities. But boy… I can say at least 85%+ of encounters my Arcane Archer was capable to effectively shut down at least one dangerous enemy in the same fashion a Wizard casting big powerful spells would do.
The only problem was that I felt my character was a one-trick pony and doing the same thing over and over starts getting boring, even if this one thing is effectively amazing. Hence I tried to improve my repertoire with Wood Elf Magic, getting more levels in Warlock and etc.
No white room scenario more than the original suggestion so no need to strawman. :)
Again, no need for strawmen. :)
Of course it does. It's a multiclassed character. That's what "multiclass" means.
...that still relies on multiclassing to be good. Which means that you can't say that AA is as good as it's claimed to be since it requires something that isn't the AA.
I've never claimed anything of the sorts so again, please don't strawman.
Having a 13 in more than three abilities IS MAD. And having only a 13 only gives you a +1 modifier which isn't very good.
The spell sin't wasted. Maybe read up on what Dispel Magic actually does? ;)
It only restricts movement if the target actually wants to move, which isn't neccesarily the case. As mentioned, the DC will be quite low. It's not as great as it is proclaimed to be.
But at the same time you only have two chances to succeed and then you are out so it's not sustainable and not very reliable.
No it doesn't. Also, just because the battle master maneuvers have their weaknesses doesn't mean that the weaknesses of the Arcane Shots go away.
You still only have two shots. Which isn't much.
You can only use Arcane Shot once per turn.
There is still a DC...
So you basically have to choose between being a one trick pony or be less not be as nerfed?
Less MAD is usually better, yes. :)
Slashing, but OK. ;)
Yeah, it's not the first time when we have gotten bad rulings from the "sage" advice...
...and like I've said, being a one-trick pony does not a good subclass make. The sheer versatility of the other subclasses compared to the, well, one trick speaks for itself.