Nicely done 4yulming4 looks great at first read through I don’t see any problems so great job. Looking back my posts look unrefined compared to yours haha and you even did more than mine!
Ability Score Increases/Feats: +2 to Dex, Alert (+5 to initiative), Piercer (+1 to Dex), Gunner (+1 to Dex, Firearm Prof.), Fey Touched (+1 to Cha, Hex, Misty Step), Sharpshooter (-5 to hit, +10 dmg), Lucky (3 Rerolls).
Final Ability Scores: 16, 20, 10, 10, 8, 14
Final Base Initiative Score: +5 (20 Dex) + 6 (Proficiency bonus) + 5 (Alert) = +16. And the average roll is 13.82 (rounded up to 14 with lucky). Min of 17, Average of 30, and Max of 36.
Equipment: Starting Gear Musket. Musket Balls.
The plan: Have a blade sheathed in your throat. Bonus Action cast hex wizard either let’s it happens to use shield or counterspells it (Dis, Dex Checks). Action: Attack four times first attack is a shove at +9 with lucky against a wizard with either acrobatics at disadvantage or athletics with a low ability score (assume first shove works). Action Surge; Action: Attack four times and one rapid strike (rapid strike uses one lucky). Use Free action or Movement to bend over letting the throat sheathed blade to gut you for suicide. Reaction Strength before Death extra turn. Action Attack four times. Action Surge; Action: Attack four times and one rapid strike (rapid strike uses one lucky). Bonus action second wind.
All attacks are: 1 Shove, 15 attacks at advantage, 2 rapid strikes using lucky.
Each attack uses sharpshooter at advantage with +8 to hit either dealing 1d12 (6.5) + 5 + 10 + 1d6 (3.5) = 25 with hex or 22.5 without hex.
Total average damage is 425 with hex or 382.5 without hex.
With hex against:
AC 18: 79.75% chance to hit for a damage of 338.9378 damage.
AC 23: 51.00% chance to hit for a damage of 216.75 damage.
Without hex against:
AC 18: 79.75% chance to hit for a damage of 305.04375 damage.
And while I could keep on giving AC/to hit chance calculations and damages I’ll end it here but if you wanna know if this build can take a certain wizard build remember this build lost damage (Elven Accuracy) and instead opted for initiative.
PS: I think I’ll remake the seppuku sniper samurai using Custom Lineage and make a wizard using the Chronurgist Hobgoblin Tank type of build later.
A remade remaking of my seppuku sniper samurai build that I’m making since some revelations have been made.
Class: Fighter, Level 20, Subclass: Samurai
Fighting Style: Archery (+2 to hit for ranged weapons)
Background: Knight works well as I have said and the Hermit also works well too.
Proficiencies: Athletics is good for shoving and insight, arcana, investigation, and perception are just good for knowing and understanding the wizard as such adds more viability to why the samurai would go to such lengths as committing suicide to defeat such a foe.
Race: Custom Lineage using a Elven heritage so you can gain access to Elven Accuracy as for how it’s worded. As for the other features Darkvision and for the feat Elven Accuracy (+1 Dex, Triple Adv.).
Turn One: Have Shortsword sheathed in throat. Wielding arcane focus and rifle. Win initiative +10 with lucky. Turn starts. Bonus action cast hex targeting Dexterity Checks either baiting Counterspell/Shield. Action: Attack (Four), first attack becomes a shove (at +15 against the wizards Ath. or Acr.). Action Surge; Action: Attack (Four), rapid strike. Then using either movement or just a free action to bend over to let the throat sheathed weapon to rend your insides in the attempt of suicide. Doing so you use your reaction to use Strength before Death for an extra turn.
Turn Two: Bonus action second wind. Action: Attack (Four). Action Surge; Action: Attack (Four), rapid strike. And sadly you don’t have anything to use your reaction.
Total Attacks: 1 Shove at +15, 15 Triple Adv at +8. 2 normal Rapid Strikes at +8 using Lucky and Piercer but since I don’t know how to use the Piercer’s reroll damage die in my calculations so I’ll just make each of the rapid strikes akin to a triple adv. strike to accommodate the addition in damage. And since we are rolling 47 dice for attacks we can assume 2 crits also known as an additional 33 damage (with hex) or 26 (without hex) as Piercer increases the crit damage.
Average Damage: 1d12 (6.5) + 5 + 10 + 1d6 (3.5) = 25, or 22.5 damage (without hex). And remember since I don’t know how to add the Piercer damage dice reroll. As such the final (with hex and crit) damage is 458 while the final (No hex but with crit) damage is 408.5.
Chance to hit Against AC’s:
Against AC 18: 0.908875 x 458 = 416.26475 (Hex), 0.908875 x 408.5 = 371.275438 (No Hex).
Against AC 20: 0.833625 x 458 = 395.54025 (Hex), 0.833625 x 408.5 = 340.535812 (No Hex).
Against AC 23: 0.657 x 458 = 300.906 (Hex), 0.657 x 408.5 = 268.3845 (No Hex).
Against AC 25: 0.488 x 458 = 223.504 (Hex), 0.488 x 408.5 = 199.348 (No Hex).
Hopefully this should be my final build unless some great revelations are made or builds created since the only other Fighter builds that can even get barely near are my AAA (Arcane Archer Aasimer), and my EK (Eldritch Knight) build but both of those still weren’t that great since the AAA barely got past the average needed damage while the EK while it’s damage was amazing it utterly failed against the satyr and any build made to counter his Hold Persons’ since if he didn’t get his hold person to stay for him to capitalize on it and get his action, action surge 8 attacks on them with all crits then the build would fail horribly but in all honesty the EK did better than the AAA in damage and in some ways viability as unless the wizard was fully built against being Held in place the wizard would face a hard time.
Now for the Wizard build but one thing to note before we go on:
“Armor Proficiency. Anyone can put on a suit of armor or strap a shield to an arm. Only those proficient in the armor's use know how to wear it effectively, however. Your class gives you proficiency with certain types of armor. If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can't cast spells.”
So that means technically if you wanted instead of casting shield (as you can’t) and instead of using a bunch of feats and such to get shield proficiency you could just not and instead just wear a shield have mage armor and 20 Dex to have a 20 AC. But that’s kinda a dumb thing to do but makes sense funnily enough (probably) and could be used for some build out there. But yeah that was just something interesting I wanted to say but moving on.
Class: Wizard, Level 20, Subclass: Abjuration
Background: Knight for the 3 RETAINERS and this funnily enough has a purpose now!
Proficiencies: Doesn’t really matter but Athletics and Acrobatics are both good to have along with the deductive and perceptive type skills (insight, perception, investigation, etc).
Race: Hobgoblin, Light armor and martial weapon proficiency.
Ability Score Increases/Feats: Moderately Armored (+1 to Dex, Shield Proficiency), ASI +2 Dex, ASI +2 Dex, Resilience (+1 Con), Tough.
Final Ability Scores: 8, 20, 18, 16, 8, 8
Final HP: 6 + 4 + ((4 + 4) x 19) + 40 = 202 base hp + the ward of ((Wiz. Lvl x 2) + Int Mod) = 43. Means the total hp is 245.
Final AC: 13 + 5 + 2 + 5 = 25.
That means that the Seppuku Sniper Samurai on average can’t actually kill the ultimate tank wizard… or can it… well maybe since remember the fighter is using some of his perks on things like alert and lucky he could totally substitute such things for others feats like Martial Adept (For some maneuvers) and Fighting Initiate (Superior Technique: For a maneuver) and 2d6 battlemaster dice giving some extra damage and possiblities like instead of doing the first attack as a shove why not make it a tripping attack since by doing so you gain an extra attack to deal damage and such and that gives you better chances. But then again the abjuration build gives resistance to spell damage or hex in this case and that’s a big blow so who knows maybe the gap can’t be overcome but either way if the wizard does that tank build the fighter can respond with the EK build (even though weakened from abjuration it still is incredible deadly).
Additionally there is a second build that I don’t really see how the fighter could evade at this moment and that build is the Polearm Master, Warcaster build. That quite literally tries to stop the fighter and end the match in the first seconds of the match by (most of the time) trapping the fighter in a Maze (sadly Forcecage doesn’t work).
Then the last build is the initiative build I made already that has a like +20 to initiative and an 33 something average initiative roll.
Then there is the Chronurgist “build” where you just use Convergent Future on initiative and just make yourself go first (but since this subclass is used by the initiative build I made and the build is just using a feature it has its really not a build). And as for the Convergent Future auto go first method while I personally think it works for how it’s worded and by its flavour text and intent is given some don’t think so so I’ll end that discussion here for now.
It is noteworthy that this version of the tank build is pretty useless cause the Samurai just kills the wizard on turn 2 or 3.
Also Warcaster + Forcecage does not work, forcecage doesn't target a creature, it targets "an area you choose within range". Probably some spells you could pick though, several save or suck spells like Hold Person, Command, Maze, wait actually Maze is a pretty good one to use. No save, takes a action at minimum which could cut off a lot of DPR.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
It is noteworthy that this version of the tank build is pretty useless cause the Samurai just kills the wizard on turn 2 or 3.
Answer: Just saying the build that was showed didn’t use the shield thingy I talked about with the quote so if the wizard gets a turn he still wins by cast Forcecage or whatever.
Also Warcaster + Forcecage does not work, forcecage doesn't target a creature, it targets "an area you choose within range".
Answer: Oops but it doesn’t matter as the aim of the Forcecage was to cut off the damage of the fighter as such something like maze works just as well just like you say later.
Probably some spells you could pick though, several save or suck spells like Hold Person, Command, Maze, wait actually Maze is a pretty good one to use. No save, takes a action at minimum which could cut off a lot of DPR.
Answer: I don’t know about command or hold person especially considering Indomitable exists but as I said that yes Maze is amazing to either cut of some damage or just rid the fighter of his first turn.
It is noteworthy that this version of the tank build is pretty useless cause the Samurai just kills the wizard on turn 2 or 3.
Answer: Just saying the build that was showed didn’t use the shield thingy I talked about with the quote so if the wizard gets a turn he still wins by cast Forcecage or whatever.
Also Warcaster + Forcecage does not work, forcecage doesn't target a creature, it targets "an area you choose within range".
Answer: Oops but it doesn’t matter as the aim of the Forcecage was to cut off the damage of the fighter as such something like maze works just as well just like you say later.
Probably some spells you could pick though, several save or suck spells like Hold Person, Command, Maze, wait actually Maze is a pretty good one to use. No save, takes a action at minimum which could cut off a lot of DPR.
Answer: I don’t know about command or hold person especially considering Indomitable exists but as I said that yes Maze is amazing to either cut of some damage or just rid the fighter of his first turn.
More than one turn for the fighter.... If they have an 8 INT they literally can't make the ability check and stay in limbo for 10 turns.
You can just sim/wish, get a second caster and then have them hold their action to cast wall of force when you cast sickening radiance.
Then when fighter comes back both spells pop and the fighter is cooked.
It is noteworthy that this version of the tank build is pretty useless cause the Samurai just kills the wizard on turn 2 or 3.
Answer: Just saying the build that was showed didn’t use the shield thingy I talked about with the quote so if the wizard gets a turn he still wins by cast Forcecage or whatever.
Also Warcaster + Forcecage does not work, forcecage doesn't target a creature, it targets "an area you choose within range".
Answer: Oops but it doesn’t matter as the aim of the Forcecage was to cut off the damage of the fighter as such something like maze works just as well just like you say later.
Probably some spells you could pick though, several save or suck spells like Hold Person, Command, Maze, wait actually Maze is a pretty good one to use. No save, takes a action at minimum which could cut off a lot of DPR.
Answer: I don’t know about command or hold person especially considering Indomitable exists but as I said that yes Maze is amazing to either cut of some damage or just rid the fighter of his first turn.
More than one turn for the fighter.... If they have an 8 INT they literally can't make the ability check and stay in limbo for 10 turns.
Answer: As for the 8 int yeah kinda funny to be honest that when you go over some of these builds like certain fighter builds they are these like super strong Herculean heroes but they are like dumber than a commoner…
You can just sim/wish, get a second caster and then have them hold their action to cast wall of force when you cast sickening radiance.
Answer: A simulacrum is just so deadly and funnily enough if you both get rid of your clothes and such and both just have the same appearance the fighter won’t knows who’s who though of course instead of Rod clothes you could probably just make an illusion so you look the same then both wizards cast Mirror Image or something like that and boom the fighter won’t know who to attack.
Then when fighter comes back both spells pop and the fighter is cooked.
Answer: Forcecage + Sickening Radiance the ultimate deadly combo rival only by Polymorph Powerword: Kill and a few other builds.
have not been paying much attention to this thread in a while, what terrible secret could this harengon have unearthed during his hidden musket-training hermitage that could possibly grant him an advantage during this fight? (or well i suppose their gender does not matter much but whatever)
edit: oh wait you have already explained this to me specifically. I will say that this is a bit too cheeky, like the purpose of a background feature is to ground your character in the game world, to give them a connection to the world at large. The Discovery your character found is clearly not supposed to be "ah yes this is how i shoot a guy for slightly extra damage", it's meant to be something like "if we don't stop using dragonshards for our stuff, the eldeen reaches will burst into flames" or something like that. It''s a storytelling tool
Background: Knight for the 3 RETAINERS and this funnily enough has a purpose now!
Proficiencies: Doesn’t really matter but Athletics and Acrobatics are both good to have along with the deductive and perceptive type skills (insight, perception, investigation, etc).
Race: Hobgoblin, Light armor and martial weapon proficiency.
Ability Score Increases/Feats: Moderately Armored (+1 to Dex, Shield Proficiency), ASI +2 Dex, ASI +2 Dex, Resilience (+1 Con), Tough.
Final Ability Scores: 8, 20, 18, 16, 8, 8
Final HP: 6 + 4 + ((4 + 4) x 19) + 40 = 202 base hp + the ward of ((Wiz. Lvl x 2) + Int Mod) = 43. Means the total hp is 245.
Final AC: 13 + 5 + 2 + 5 = 25.
I think you mixed your INT and CON on the ability scores, CON is third & INT is fourth if I recall correct. Numbers look good though.
This is a good build, but I think I prefer the original Dread build.
You already have moderately armed, so just use medium armor and get a extra 2 feats (Lucky & Warcaster) and put the point buy points that went into DEX into WIS and then you got Dread.
Dread does only have a AC of 24 (with Shield, and a hp of 244 (instead of 245 like yours) but in exchange it gains:
no reliance on prep (Mage Armor), before you say mages should always have Mage Armor, I'd remind you Contingency is way less costy than Mage Armor in terms of slots & doesn't need to be cast within 8 hours. Without prep both builds have the same AC.
Lucky feat, which I'd consider worth more than 1 hp.
Dread was designed to fight EKs, and as such has a good WIS & great CON saving throws (resilient CON).
If you want a better tank build, just take Dread and replace Warcaster with +2 CON for 264 effective hp. I don't even know why Warcaster is even on there considering Resilient CON. You could also remove Dread's +2 to WIS to get 16 INT and gain a additional +1 hp at the cost of WIS saving throws.
In total with the above changes, Dread has 24 AC (with Shield), 265 total hp, and Lucky, compared to your 24 AC (with Shield) and 245 hp. Note effective hp is a little higher than shown here for the samurai build because resistance to Hex.
I'd probably keep the +2 Wisdom for EKs (264 total hp), although 16 INT would probably be easier on progression, but that's kinda not really a concern with these builds. Not sure how you would calculate Lucky in terms of dealing with a Samurai nuke, I guess just assume it's used on the first three attacks?
I think you mixed your INT and CON on the ability scores, CON is third & INT is fourth if I recall correct. Numbers look good though.
Answer: Nope I wanted 20 Dex, 18 Con, and 16 Int and Thx.
This is a good build, but I think I prefer the original Dread build.
You already have moderately armed, so just use medium armor and get a extra 2 feats (Lucky & Warcaster) and put the point buy points that went into DEX into WIS and then you got Dread.
Dread does only have a AC of 24 (with Shield, and a hp of 244 (instead of 245 like yours) but in exchange it gains:
no reliance on prep (Mage Armor), before you say mages should always have Mage Armor, I'd remind you Contingency is way less costy than Mage Armor in terms of slots & doesn't need to be cast within 8 hours. Without prep both builds have the same AC.
Lucky feat, which I'd consider worth more than 1 hp.
Dread was designed to fight EKs, and as such has a good WIS & great CON saving throws (resilient CON).
Answer:
My Samurai (Current) vs the Dread build.
Against AC 24: 0.578125 x 458 = 264.78125 (With Hex), 0.578125 x 408.5 = 236.164062 (No Hex). Now with Halved Hex since abjuration (Damage becomes 433.25), 0.578125 x 433.25 = 250.472656
Against AC 25: 0.488 x 458 = 223.504 (Hex), 0.488 x 408.5 = 199.348 (No Hex). No need for the halved hex here because the damage isn’t close enough to matter as against my 25 build even with hex not halved the wizard survives with 20ish hp.
Sooooo Dread is dead while mine lives because I have a higher AC and yes I know you could switch up your build to get 20 con to survive but I just did the math against normal Dread.
The point I guess I was trying to make was that 1 AC is better than 20 hp as having that 1 AC “counts” as 40ish hp.
If you want a better tank build, just take Dread and replace Warcaster with +2 CON for 264 effective hp. I don't even know why Warcaster is even on there considering Resilient CON. You could also remove Dread's +2 to WIS to get 16 INT and gain a additional +1 hp at the cost of WIS saving throws.
Answer yep that works as well but as shown above 1 AC is better than 20 hp. So while your 264 hp build would live with approximately 14 hp my build survives with a little over 20 hp as such my build is better than yours ;). Anyway good build!
In total with the above changes, Dread has 24 AC (with Shield), 265 total hp, and Lucky, compared to your 24 AC (with Shield) and 245 hp. Note effective hp is a little higher than shown here for the samurai build because resistance to Hex.
Answer: I already showed the AC difference and resistance to hex along with leftover hp stuff.
I'd probably keep the +2 Wisdom for EKs (264 total hp), although 16 INT would probably be easier on progression, but that's kinda not really a concern with these builds. Not sure how you would calculate Lucky in terms of dealing with a Samurai nuke, I guess just assume it's used on the first three attacks?
Answer: I not sure about lucky but… wait what if you replaced lucky with Fighter Initiate and grab the Defence fighting style… wait a second…
Muahahaha thanks to 4yulming4 I have devised (as I can see) the most powerful tank build to be seen behold!
Class: Wizard, Level 20, Subclass: Abjuration
Background: Knight for the 3 RETAINERS and this funnily enough has a purpose now! If you don’t know as a hobgoblin you have a feature called saving face which for each ally within range you gain a +1 bonus to a roll if you use your reaction. So if by some miracle the fighter gets a lowish initiative and you are almost tying you can instead just use saving face for a +4 (does it count yourself? If not then +3 to tip the scales).
Proficiencies: As I have said it doesn’t really matter but Athletics and Acrobatics are always both good to have along with the deductive and perceptive type skills (like insight, perception, investigation, etc).
Race: Hobgoblin, Light armor and martial weapon proficiency.
Equipment: Since many have said “having x item isn’t gamebreaking” when referring to common armor, weapons, and such the wizard in this build has Half-plate, and a shield.
Final HP: 6 + 5 + ((4 + 5) x 19) + 40 = 222 base hp + the ward of ((Wiz. Lvl x 2) + Int Mod) = 43. Means the total hp is 265.
A wizard using this build against the (current) samurai at the end of his barrage have a little over 40 hp left and that is without halving Hex and if we did so we would get (0.488 x 433.25 = 211.426) meaning we would actually have around 54ish hp left.
PS: By the looks of things this is the best build yet having up 265 hp with a 25 AC as such the wizard on average will survive the Seppuku Sniper Samurai build (though of course since the SSS “wastes” two feats on Alert and Lucky those could be replaced for say Martial Adept and Fighting Initiate: Superior Technique getting 2d6 superiority die along with 3 maneuvers allowing for some spicy gameplay especially with tripping attack and such which would not only save an attack from doing a shove (while accomplishing the same to thing to knock prone the wizard) but also give more potential damage to bridge the gap of hp.
I would just dump CHA & WIS altogether if you were making a anti-Samurai build and pump it into STR to reduce the effectiveness of shove tactics. I mean, your already turning down WIS to 10 so might as well just commit.
Although with the tank wizard having 54ish hp left, I doubt the 2d6 superiority die would make a additional 54 damage. Turning a miss into a hit and gaining a additional attack is only like a increase of 22.5 dpr.
(precision attack, replace one attack's normal attack damage with certain hit damage, so -10.98, +22.5, yes ik that's not how adding a d6 works but I'm lazy so I'll just assume you cherry pick it to add to a attack that had a 23 to hit or something, and then add a additional attack so +10.98 for +22.5 DPR, this is very rough math I did in like a couple of minutes so probably wrong but it gets my point across. This is using the numbers on the Samurai post, so 22.5 damage per attack & 0.488 accuracy against AC 25.)
I would just dump CHA & WIS altogether if you were making a anti-Samurai build and pump it into STR to reduce the effectiveness of shove tactics. I mean, your already turning down WIS to 10 so might as well just commit.
Answer: True It would probably be way better.
Although with the tank wizard having 54ish hp left, I doubt the 2d6 superiority die would make a additional 54 damage. Turning a miss into a hit and gaining a additional attack is only like a increase of 22.5 dpr.
(precision attack, replace one attack's normal attack damage with certain hit damage, so -10.98, +22.5, yes ik that's not how adding a d6 works but I'm lazy so I'll just assume you cherry pick it to add to a attack that had a 23 to hit or something, and then add a additional attack so +10.98 for +22.5 DPR, this is very rough math I did in like a couple of minutes so probably wrong but it gets my point across. This is using the numbers on the Samurai post, so 22.5 damage per attack & 0.488 accuracy against AC 25.)
Answer: We’ll how I saw it was first attack was instead of a shove it was a tripping attack so that you have an “additional attack.” Then the second die would be making a miss into a hit since remember your making like 18 attacks you can be picky with the dice.
And while I’m that probably gets you a lot more damage I actually think if done well the fighter could still win especially when luck is considered in that the damage I presented is just the average damage so technically if he really needed more damage all he would need to do was get a few more hits in and especially since we are rolling over 40 dice and have accounted for 2 crits what’s stopping the fighter from getting more.
So while it certainly 100% in the fighters favour with everything considered I honestly think the fighter at LEAST has a 35% chance to win against the wizard and since at the beginning we were giving the fighter like a 5% chance to win and such I think he’s doing in a better spot now.
Background: Knight for the 3 RETAINERS and this funnily enough has a purpose now!
Proficiencies: Doesn’t really matter but Athletics and Acrobatics are both good to have along with the deductive and perceptive type skills (insight, perception, investigation, etc).
Race: Hobgoblin, Light armor and martial weapon proficiency.
Ability Score Increases/Feats: Moderately Armored (+1 to Dex, Shield Proficiency), ASI +2 Dex, ASI +2 Dex, Resilience (+1 Con), Tough.
Final Ability Scores: 8, 20, 18, 16, 8, 8
Final HP: 6 + 4 + ((4 + 4) x 19) + 40 = 202 base hp + the ward of ((Wiz. Lvl x 2) + Int Mod) = 43. Means the total hp is 245.
Final AC: 13 + 5 + 2 + 5 = 25.
I think you mixed your INT and CON on the ability scores, CON is third & INT is fourth if I recall correct. Numbers look good though.
This is a good build, but I think I prefer the original Dread build.
You already have moderately armed, so just use medium armor and get a extra 2 feats (Lucky & Warcaster) and put the point buy points that went into DEX into WIS and then you got Dread.
Dread does only have a AC of 24 (with Shield, and a hp of 244 (instead of 245 like yours) but in exchange it gains:
no reliance on prep (Mage Armor), before you say mages should always have Mage Armor, I'd remind you Contingency is way less costy than Mage Armor in terms of slots & doesn't need to be cast within 8 hours. Without prep both builds have the same AC.
Lucky feat, which I'd consider worth more than 1 hp.
Dread was designed to fight EKs, and as such has a good WIS & great CON saving throws (resilient CON).
If you want a better tank build, just take Dread and replace Warcaster with +2 CON for 264 effective hp. I don't even know why Warcaster is even on there considering Resilient CON. You could also remove Dread's +2 to WIS to get 16 INT and gain a additional +1 hp at the cost of WIS saving throws.
In total with the above changes, Dread has 24 AC (with Shield), 265 total hp, and Lucky, compared to your 24 AC (with Shield) and 245 hp. Note effective hp is a little higher than shown here for the samurai build because resistance to Hex.
I'd probably keep the +2 Wisdom for EKs (264 total hp), although 16 INT would probably be easier on progression, but that's kinda not really a concern with these builds. Not sure how you would calculate Lucky in terms of dealing with a Samurai nuke, I guess just assume it's used on the first three attacks?
I agree that Warcaster is unnecessary. Looking back on it...not really sure why I was so adamant about keeping it on Dread. Replacing that ASI with +2 con is pretty clean, but I also like metamagic adept for subtle spell as well. As far as I'm concerned, Dread trivializes any Fighter whose only tool is damage and is best served building for the EK matchup.
@Deathknight: Putting The Seppuku Samurai through Ludevic's Calculator, it does an average of 191 damage during its nova round, which is plenty shy of killing Dread with 18 con.
If hex is used, then that means no fighting spirit, which means no advantage. There is no way that is getting anywhere close to killing Dread with his resistance to magic.
@Deathknight: Putting The Seppuku Samurai through Ludevic's Calculator, it does an average of 191 damage during its nova round, which is plenty shy of killing Dread with 18 con.
If hex is used, then that means no fighting spirit, which means no advantage. There is no way that is getting anywhere close to killing Dread with his resistance to magic.
The Samurai build that Deathknight uses relies on prone, not fighting spirit. I suppose "Improved" Samurai would replace Alert with Martial Adept and grab tripping manuever, however the normal Samurai build just spends a attack (or multiple) to knock prone.
The Samurai build does have Skill Expert for Expertise in Athletics, I thought it didn't but it does indeed have it.
It has been acknowledged a couple times the Samurai build uses some questionable tactics (firearms; Custom Lineage -> Elven Accuracy isn't RAI, and unlikely to be RAW (custom lineage completely removes your race altogether, although some argue the game never mentions what that means in terms of racial feats, but it can probably be implied); and the whole suicide via object interaction is more Rules of Cool than anything else).
@Deathknight: Putting The Seppuku Samurai through Ludevic's Calculator, it does an average of 191 damage during its nova round, which is plenty shy of killing Dread with 18 con.
Answer: I have no clue what that calculator is nor how you got that number. How did you calculate that damage? Did you use crits? Like how did you get that number what AC did you put it up against? Like how did you get 191? I assume you did my build against an AC of 25 otherwise I see no way you get such a number either way what process did you use?
If hex is used, then that means no fighting spirit, which means no advantage. There is no way that is getting anywhere close to killing Dread with his resistance to magic.
The Samurai build that Deathknight uses relies on prone, not fighting spirit. I suppose "Improved" Samurai would replace Alert with Martial Adept and grab tripping manuever, however the normal Samurai build just spends a attack (or multiple) to knock prone.
The Samurai build does have Skill Expert for Expertise in Athletics, I thought it didn't but it does indeed have it.
Answer: Yeah I just use prone and the newer build has skill expert for expertise in Athletics for an easier shove or you can just use tripping attack “saving an attack” as you wouldn’t “waste” an attack and therefore deal more damage.
It has been acknowledged a couple times the Samurai build uses some questionable tactics (firearms; Custom Lineage -> Elven Accuracy isn't RAI, and unlikely to be RAW (custom lineage completely removes your race altogether, although some argue the game never mentions what that means in terms of racial feats, but it can probably be implied); and the whole suicide via object interaction is more Rules of Cool than anything else).
Answer: The firearms aren’t questionable there RAW and we’re in a white room it’s all fair game ;). As for Custom Lineage: Elven Accuracy I’ve seen the arguments, the RAI vs RAW and such and by going by RAW it and the spirit of Tashas of “customize your origin” along with the fact that Custom Lineage allows you to choose what you are I think it is quite reasonable.
As for the suicide while there aren’t any rules (Last time I checked) for suicide or executions (hanging, etc) so I guess it is a bit ROC (Rule of Cool) but I see no reason (as other have agreed) why a character couldn’t commit suicide as in dropping to 0 hp by a method of suicide (Seppuku as the name implies) as such I find that while the build is mind you very out there it’s still all quite within reason.
It was originally posted by Optimus. It uses Dread (24AC) vs the to hit bonus of a Samurai Archer making 16 attacks at triple advantage with Sharpshooter. That calculator takes into account critical hits.
Elven Accuracy does not work with Custom Lineage. Jeremy Crawford has come out clarifying you do not qualify in this sage advice.
The reason HeironymusZot got a low number was because he assumed you would either get advantage or Hex, not both, as that post was made before he was corrected of the prone stuff.
Using the calculator (assuming the Custom Lineage stuff, which personally I agree with HeironymusZot, Custom Lineage doesn't allow you to choose who you are, it allows you to choose your appearance or if you resemble your kin. Resemble and appearance being key words there, but this isn't the thread to argue about that).
16 attacks, +8 to hit, 1d12 + d6 + 15, Elven Accuracy & Advantage, nets a DPR of 254.07 against AC 24, and 218.02 against AC 25.
Funnily enough, against AC 25 you get a DPR of 222.89 if you don't use sharpshooter (SS is better against AC 24 and lower). Guess that frees up a feat.
Edit: Forgot to account for piercer, crit is easy enough. For reroll just added 1.5 to any attack buffed with the reroll 8 (piercer avg) - 6.5 (normal avg) = 1.5, so added 1.5 to two attacks, assuming you hit at least twice (very likely) so I just added 3 to the total DPR. I guess more accurately I'd be adding something like 3 * chance to hit at least twice but close enough.
against 271.90 AC 24 SS, 235.85 against AC 25 SS 240.72 against AC 25 no SS
okay I think that's the final edit for correcting numbers
It was originally posted by Optimus. It uses Dread (24AC) vs the to hit bonus of a Samurai Archer making 16 attacks at triple advantage with Sharpshooter. That calculator takes into account critical hits.
Answer: That’s awesome much better than me punching numbers into a calculator ;).
Elven Accuracy does not work with Custom Lineage. Jeremy Crawford has come out clarifying you do not qualify in this sage advice.
Answer: I have already seen it but I was still showing why I thought otherwise and purposed a build using such a tactic if it were possible.
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Nicely done 4yulming4 looks great at first read through I don’t see any problems so great job. Looking back my posts look unrefined compared to yours haha and you even did more than mine!
Wanted to see how a “simple” seppuku sniper samurai build who places more investment into initiative could do.
Class: Fighter, Level 20, Subclass: Samurai
Fighting Style: Archery (+2 to hit for ranged weapons)
Background: Knight, RETAINERS (or Hermit, Discovery)
Proficiencies: Some of the main skills are Arcana, Perception, Acrobatics, Athletics, and I guess Stealth since as I have said why not.
Race: Harengon, for Hare-trigger, +1 Dex, +1 Str, +1 Cha
Base Ability Scores (Point Buy): 15, 15, 10, 10, 8, 13
Ability Scores with Racial Bonus: 16, 16, 10, 10, 8, 14
Ability Score Increases/Feats: +2 to Dex, Alert (+5 to initiative), Piercer (+1 to Dex), Gunner (+1 to Dex, Firearm Prof.), Fey Touched (+1 to Cha, Hex, Misty Step), Sharpshooter (-5 to hit, +10 dmg), Lucky (3 Rerolls).
Final Ability Scores: 16, 20, 10, 10, 8, 14
Final Base Initiative Score: +5 (20 Dex) + 6 (Proficiency bonus) + 5 (Alert) = +16. And the average roll is 13.82 (rounded up to 14 with lucky). Min of 17, Average of 30, and Max of 36.
Equipment: Starting Gear Musket. Musket Balls.
The plan: Have a blade sheathed in your throat. Bonus Action cast hex wizard either let’s it happens to use shield or counterspells it (Dis, Dex Checks). Action: Attack four times first attack is a shove at +9 with lucky against a wizard with either acrobatics at disadvantage or athletics with a low ability score (assume first shove works). Action Surge; Action: Attack four times and one rapid strike (rapid strike uses one lucky). Use Free action or Movement to bend over letting the throat sheathed blade to gut you for suicide. Reaction Strength before Death extra turn. Action Attack four times. Action Surge; Action: Attack four times and one rapid strike (rapid strike uses one lucky). Bonus action second wind.
All attacks are: 1 Shove, 15 attacks at advantage, 2 rapid strikes using lucky.
Each attack uses sharpshooter at advantage with +8 to hit either dealing 1d12 (6.5) + 5 + 10 + 1d6 (3.5) = 25 with hex or 22.5 without hex.
Total average damage is 425 with hex or 382.5 without hex.
With hex against:
AC 18: 79.75% chance to hit for a damage of 338.9378 damage.
AC 23: 51.00% chance to hit for a damage of 216.75 damage.
Without hex against:
AC 18: 79.75% chance to hit for a damage of 305.04375 damage.
And while I could keep on giving AC/to hit chance calculations and damages I’ll end it here but if you wanna know if this build can take a certain wizard build remember this build lost damage (Elven Accuracy) and instead opted for initiative.
PS: I think I’ll remake the seppuku sniper samurai using Custom Lineage and make a wizard using the Chronurgist Hobgoblin Tank type of build later.
A remade remaking of my seppuku sniper samurai build that I’m making since some revelations have been made.
Class: Fighter, Level 20, Subclass: Samurai
Fighting Style: Archery (+2 to hit for ranged weapons)
Background: Knight works well as I have said and the Hermit also works well too.
Proficiencies: Athletics is good for shoving and insight, arcana, investigation, and perception are just good for knowing and understanding the wizard as such adds more viability to why the samurai would go to such lengths as committing suicide to defeat such a foe.
Race: Custom Lineage using a Elven heritage so you can gain access to Elven Accuracy as for how it’s worded. As for the other features Darkvision and for the feat Elven Accuracy (+1 Dex, Triple Adv.).
Base Ability Scores (Point Buy): 15, 15, 10, 10, 8, 13
Ability Scores with Racial Bonus: 15, 17, 10, 10, 8, 13
Ability Score Increases/Feats: Alert (+5 to initiative), Piercer (+1 to Dex), Gunner (+1 to Dex, Firearm Prof.), Fey Touched (+1 to Cha, Hex, Misty Step), Skill Expert (+1 Str, Expertise Athletics), Sharpshooter (-5 to hit, +10 dmg), and Lucky (3 Rerolls).
Final Ability Scores: 16, 20, 10, 10, 8, 14
Equipment: Musket Rifle, Musket Balls, Shortsword, arcane focus.
The Plan:
Turn One: Have Shortsword sheathed in throat. Wielding arcane focus and rifle. Win initiative +10 with lucky. Turn starts. Bonus action cast hex targeting Dexterity Checks either baiting Counterspell/Shield. Action: Attack (Four), first attack becomes a shove (at +15 against the wizards Ath. or Acr.). Action Surge; Action: Attack (Four), rapid strike. Then using either movement or just a free action to bend over to let the throat sheathed weapon to rend your insides in the attempt of suicide. Doing so you use your reaction to use Strength before Death for an extra turn.
Turn Two: Bonus action second wind. Action: Attack (Four). Action Surge; Action: Attack (Four), rapid strike. And sadly you don’t have anything to use your reaction.
Total Attacks: 1 Shove at +15, 15 Triple Adv at +8. 2 normal Rapid Strikes at +8 using Lucky and Piercer but since I don’t know how to use the Piercer’s reroll damage die in my calculations so I’ll just make each of the rapid strikes akin to a triple adv. strike to accommodate the addition in damage. And since we are rolling 47 dice for attacks we can assume 2 crits also known as an additional 33 damage (with hex) or 26 (without hex) as Piercer increases the crit damage.
Average Damage: 1d12 (6.5) + 5 + 10 + 1d6 (3.5) = 25, or 22.5 damage (without hex). And remember since I don’t know how to add the Piercer damage dice reroll. As such the final (with hex and crit) damage is 458 while the final (No hex but with crit) damage is 408.5.
Chance to hit Against AC’s:
Against AC 18: 0.908875 x 458 = 416.26475 (Hex), 0.908875 x 408.5 = 371.275438 (No Hex).
Against AC 20: 0.833625 x 458 = 395.54025 (Hex), 0.833625 x 408.5 = 340.535812 (No Hex).
Against AC 23: 0.657 x 458 = 300.906 (Hex), 0.657 x 408.5 = 268.3845 (No Hex).
Against AC 25: 0.488 x 458 = 223.504 (Hex), 0.488 x 408.5 = 199.348 (No Hex).
Hopefully this should be my final build unless some great revelations are made or builds created since the only other Fighter builds that can even get barely near are my AAA (Arcane Archer Aasimer), and my EK (Eldritch Knight) build but both of those still weren’t that great since the AAA barely got past the average needed damage while the EK while it’s damage was amazing it utterly failed against the satyr and any build made to counter his Hold Persons’ since if he didn’t get his hold person to stay for him to capitalize on it and get his action, action surge 8 attacks on them with all crits then the build would fail horribly but in all honesty the EK did better than the AAA in damage and in some ways viability as unless the wizard was fully built against being Held in place the wizard would face a hard time.
Now for the Wizard build but one thing to note before we go on:
“Armor Proficiency. Anyone can put on a suit of armor or strap a shield to an arm. Only those proficient in the armor's use know how to wear it effectively, however. Your class gives you proficiency with certain types of armor. If you wear armor that you lack proficiency with, you have disadvantage on any ability check, saving throw, or attack roll that involves Strength or Dexterity, and you can't cast spells.”
So that means technically if you wanted instead of casting shield (as you can’t) and instead of using a bunch of feats and such to get shield proficiency you could just not and instead just wear a shield have mage armor and 20 Dex to have a 20 AC. But that’s kinda a dumb thing to do but makes sense funnily enough (probably) and could be used for some build out there. But yeah that was just something interesting I wanted to say but moving on.
Class: Wizard, Level 20, Subclass: Abjuration
Background: Knight for the 3 RETAINERS and this funnily enough has a purpose now!
Proficiencies: Doesn’t really matter but Athletics and Acrobatics are both good to have along with the deductive and perceptive type skills (insight, perception, investigation, etc).
Race: Hobgoblin, Light armor and martial weapon proficiency.
Base Ability Scores (Point Buy): 8, 15, 15, 15, 8, 8
Ability Scores with Racial Bonus: 8, 15, 17, 16, 8, 8
Ability Score Increases/Feats: Moderately Armored (+1 to Dex, Shield Proficiency), ASI +2 Dex, ASI +2 Dex, Resilience (+1 Con), Tough.
Final Ability Scores: 8, 20, 18, 16, 8, 8
Final HP: 6 + 4 + ((4 + 4) x 19) + 40 = 202 base hp + the ward of ((Wiz. Lvl x 2) + Int Mod) = 43. Means the total hp is 245.
Final AC: 13 + 5 + 2 + 5 = 25.
That means that the Seppuku Sniper Samurai on average can’t actually kill the ultimate tank wizard… or can it… well maybe since remember the fighter is using some of his perks on things like alert and lucky he could totally substitute such things for others feats like Martial Adept (For some maneuvers) and Fighting Initiate (Superior Technique: For a maneuver) and 2d6 battlemaster dice giving some extra damage and possiblities like instead of doing the first attack as a shove why not make it a tripping attack since by doing so you gain an extra attack to deal damage and such and that gives you better chances. But then again the abjuration build gives resistance to spell damage or hex in this case and that’s a big blow so who knows maybe the gap can’t be overcome but either way if the wizard does that tank build the fighter can respond with the EK build (even though weakened from abjuration it still is incredible deadly).
Additionally there is a second build that I don’t really see how the fighter could evade at this moment and that build is the Polearm Master, Warcaster build. That quite literally tries to stop the fighter and end the match in the first seconds of the match by (most of the time) trapping the fighter in a Maze (sadly Forcecage doesn’t work).
Then the last build is the initiative build I made already that has a like +20 to initiative and an 33 something average initiative roll.
Then there is the Chronurgist “build” where you just use Convergent Future on initiative and just make yourself go first (but since this subclass is used by the initiative build I made and the build is just using a feature it has its really not a build). And as for the Convergent Future auto go first method while I personally think it works for how it’s worded and by its flavour text and intent is given some don’t think so so I’ll end that discussion here for now.
It is noteworthy that this version of the tank build is pretty useless cause the Samurai just kills the wizard on turn 2 or 3.
Also Warcaster + Forcecage does not work, forcecage doesn't target a creature, it targets "an area you choose within range". Probably some spells you could pick though, several save or suck spells like Hold Person, Command, Maze, wait actually Maze is a pretty good one to use. No save, takes a action at minimum which could cut off a lot of DPR.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Answer: Just saying the build that was showed didn’t use the shield thingy I talked about with the quote so if the wizard gets a turn he still wins by cast Forcecage or whatever.
Answer: Oops but it doesn’t matter as the aim of the Forcecage was to cut off the damage of the fighter as such something like maze works just as well just like you say later.
Answer: I don’t know about command or hold person especially considering Indomitable exists but as I said that yes Maze is amazing to either cut of some damage or just rid the fighter of his first turn.
More than one turn for the fighter.... If they have an 8 INT they literally can't make the ability check and stay in limbo for 10 turns.
You can just sim/wish, get a second caster and then have them hold their action to cast wall of force when you cast sickening radiance.
Then when fighter comes back both spells pop and the fighter is cooked.
Answer: As for the 8 int yeah kinda funny to be honest that when you go over some of these builds like certain fighter builds they are these like super strong Herculean heroes but they are like dumber than a commoner…
Answer: A simulacrum is just so deadly and funnily enough if you both get rid of your clothes and such and both just have the same appearance the fighter won’t knows who’s who though of course instead of Rod clothes you could probably just make an illusion so you look the same then both wizards cast Mirror Image or something like that and boom the fighter won’t know who to attack.
Answer: Forcecage + Sickening Radiance the ultimate deadly combo rival only by Polymorph Powerword: Kill and a few other builds.
have not been paying much attention to this thread in a while, what terrible secret could this harengon have unearthed during his hidden musket-training hermitage that could possibly grant him an advantage during this fight? (or well i suppose their gender does not matter much but whatever)
edit: oh wait you have already explained this to me specifically. I will say that this is a bit too cheeky, like the purpose of a background feature is to ground your character in the game world, to give them a connection to the world at large. The Discovery your character found is clearly not supposed to be "ah yes this is how i shoot a guy for slightly extra damage", it's meant to be something like "if we don't stop using dragonshards for our stuff, the eldeen reaches will burst into flames" or something like that. It''s a storytelling tool
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I think you mixed your INT and CON on the ability scores, CON is third & INT is fourth if I recall correct. Numbers look good though.
This is a good build, but I think I prefer the original Dread build.
You already have moderately armed, so just use medium armor and get a extra 2 feats (Lucky & Warcaster) and put the point buy points that went into DEX into WIS and then you got Dread.
Dread does only have a AC of 24 (with Shield, and a hp of 244 (instead of 245 like yours) but in exchange it gains:
If you want a better tank build, just take Dread and replace Warcaster with +2 CON for 264 effective hp. I don't even know why Warcaster is even on there considering Resilient CON. You could also remove Dread's +2 to WIS to get 16 INT and gain a additional +1 hp at the cost of WIS saving throws.
In total with the above changes, Dread has 24 AC (with Shield), 265 total hp, and Lucky, compared to your 24 AC (with Shield) and 245 hp. Note effective hp is a little higher than shown here for the samurai build because resistance to Hex.
I'd probably keep the +2 Wisdom for EKs (264 total hp), although 16 INT would probably be easier on progression, but that's kinda not really a concern with these builds. Not sure how you would calculate Lucky in terms of dealing with a Samurai nuke, I guess just assume it's used on the first three attacks?
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Answer: Nope I wanted 20 Dex, 18 Con, and 16 Int and Thx.
Answer:
My Samurai (Current) vs the Dread build.
Against AC 24: 0.578125 x 458 = 264.78125 (With Hex), 0.578125 x 408.5 = 236.164062 (No Hex). Now with Halved Hex since abjuration (Damage becomes 433.25), 0.578125 x 433.25 = 250.472656
Against AC 25: 0.488 x 458 = 223.504 (Hex), 0.488 x 408.5 = 199.348 (No Hex). No need for the halved hex here because the damage isn’t close enough to matter as against my 25 build even with hex not halved the wizard survives with 20ish hp.
Sooooo Dread is dead while mine lives because I have a higher AC and yes I know you could switch up your build to get 20 con to survive but I just did the math against normal Dread.
The point I guess I was trying to make was that 1 AC is better than 20 hp as having that 1 AC “counts” as 40ish hp.
Answer yep that works as well but as shown above 1 AC is better than 20 hp. So while your 264 hp build would live with approximately 14 hp my build survives with a little over 20 hp as such my build is better than yours ;). Anyway good build!
Answer: I already showed the AC difference and resistance to hex along with leftover hp stuff.
Answer: I not sure about lucky but… wait what if you replaced lucky with Fighter Initiate and grab the Defence fighting style… wait a second…
Muahahaha thanks to 4yulming4 I have devised (as I can see) the most powerful tank build to be seen behold!
Class: Wizard, Level 20, Subclass: Abjuration
Background: Knight for the 3 RETAINERS and this funnily enough has a purpose now! If you don’t know as a hobgoblin you have a feature called saving face which for each ally within range you gain a +1 bonus to a roll if you use your reaction. So if by some miracle the fighter gets a lowish initiative and you are almost tying you can instead just use saving face for a +4 (does it count yourself? If not then +3 to tip the scales).
Proficiencies: As I have said it doesn’t really matter but Athletics and Acrobatics are always both good to have along with the deductive and perceptive type skills (like insight, perception, investigation, etc).
Race: Hobgoblin, Light armor and martial weapon proficiency.
Base Ability Scores (Point Buy): 8, 13, 15, 15, 10, 10
Ability Scores with Racial Bonus: 8, 13, 17, 16, 10, 10
Ability Score Increases/Feats: Moderately Armored (+1 to Dex, Shield Proficiency), ASI +2 Con, Resilience (+1 Con), Tough, Fighting Initiate (Fighting Style: Defense).
Final Ability Scores: 8, 14, 20, 16, 10, 10
Equipment: Since many have said “having x item isn’t gamebreaking” when referring to common armor, weapons, and such the wizard in this build has Half-plate, and a shield.
Final HP: 6 + 5 + ((4 + 5) x 19) + 40 = 222 base hp + the ward of ((Wiz. Lvl x 2) + Int Mod) = 43. Means the total hp is 265.
Final AC: 15 (Half-plate) + 2 (Max Dex Bonus) + 1 (Defense) + 2 (Shield Equipped) + 5 (Shield Spell Cast) = 25 AC.
A wizard using this build against the (current) samurai at the end of his barrage have a little over 40 hp left and that is without halving Hex and if we did so we would get (0.488 x 433.25 = 211.426) meaning we would actually have around 54ish hp left.
PS: By the looks of things this is the best build yet having up 265 hp with a 25 AC as such the wizard on average will survive the Seppuku Sniper Samurai build (though of course since the SSS “wastes” two feats on Alert and Lucky those could be replaced for say Martial Adept and Fighting Initiate: Superior Technique getting 2d6 superiority die along with 3 maneuvers allowing for some spicy gameplay especially with tripping attack and such which would not only save an attack from doing a shove (while accomplishing the same to thing to knock prone the wizard) but also give more potential damage to bridge the gap of hp.
I would just dump CHA & WIS altogether if you were making a anti-Samurai build and pump it into STR to reduce the effectiveness of shove tactics. I mean, your already turning down WIS to 10 so might as well just commit.
Although with the tank wizard having 54ish hp left, I doubt the 2d6 superiority die would make a additional 54 damage. Turning a miss into a hit and gaining a additional attack is only like a increase of 22.5 dpr.
(precision attack, replace one attack's normal attack damage with certain hit damage, so -10.98, +22.5, yes ik that's not how adding a d6 works but I'm lazy so I'll just assume you cherry pick it to add to a attack that had a 23 to hit or something, and then add a additional attack so +10.98 for +22.5 DPR, this is very rough math I did in like a couple of minutes so probably wrong but it gets my point across. This is using the numbers on the Samurai post, so 22.5 damage per attack & 0.488 accuracy against AC 25.)
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Answer: True It would probably be way better.
Answer: We’ll how I saw it was first attack was instead of a shove it was a tripping attack so that you have an “additional attack.” Then the second die would be making a miss into a hit since remember your making like 18 attacks you can be picky with the dice.
And while I’m that probably gets you a lot more damage I actually think if done well the fighter could still win especially when luck is considered in that the damage I presented is just the average damage so technically if he really needed more damage all he would need to do was get a few more hits in and especially since we are rolling over 40 dice and have accounted for 2 crits what’s stopping the fighter from getting more.
So while it certainly 100% in the fighters favour with everything considered I honestly think the fighter at LEAST has a 35% chance to win against the wizard and since at the beginning we were giving the fighter like a 5% chance to win and such I think he’s doing in a better spot now.
I agree that Warcaster is unnecessary. Looking back on it...not really sure why I was so adamant about keeping it on Dread. Replacing that ASI with +2 con is pretty clean, but I also like metamagic adept for subtle spell as well. As far as I'm concerned, Dread trivializes any Fighter whose only tool is damage and is best served building for the EK matchup.
@Deathknight: Putting The Seppuku Samurai through Ludevic's Calculator, it does an average of 191 damage during its nova round, which is plenty shy of killing Dread with 18 con.
If hex is used, then that means no fighting spirit, which means no advantage. There is no way that is getting anywhere close to killing Dread with his resistance to magic.
The Samurai build that Deathknight uses relies on prone, not fighting spirit. I suppose "Improved" Samurai would replace Alert with Martial Adept and grab tripping manuever, however the normal Samurai build just spends a attack (or multiple) to knock prone.
The Samurai build does have Skill Expert for Expertise in Athletics, I thought it didn't but it does indeed have it.
It has been acknowledged a couple times the Samurai build uses some questionable tactics (firearms; Custom Lineage -> Elven Accuracy isn't RAI, and unlikely to be RAW (custom lineage completely removes your race altogether, although some argue the game never mentions what that means in terms of racial feats, but it can probably be implied); and the whole suicide via object interaction is more Rules of Cool than anything else).
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Answer: I have no clue what that calculator is nor how you got that number. How did you calculate that damage? Did you use crits? Like how did you get that number what AC did you put it up against? Like how did you get 191? I assume you did my build against an AC of 25 otherwise I see no way you get such a number either way what process did you use?
Answer: Yeah I just use prone and the newer build has skill expert for expertise in Athletics for an easier shove or you can just use tripping attack “saving an attack” as you wouldn’t “waste” an attack and therefore deal more damage.
Answer: The firearms aren’t questionable there RAW and we’re in a white room it’s all fair game ;). As for Custom Lineage: Elven Accuracy I’ve seen the arguments, the RAI vs RAW and such and by going by RAW it and the spirit of Tashas of “customize your origin” along with the fact that Custom Lineage allows you to choose what you are I think it is quite reasonable.
As for the suicide while there aren’t any rules (Last time I checked) for suicide or executions (hanging, etc) so I guess it is a bit ROC (Rule of Cool) but I see no reason (as other have agreed) why a character couldn’t commit suicide as in dropping to 0 hp by a method of suicide (Seppuku as the name implies) as such I find that while the build is mind you very out there it’s still all quite within reason.
this calculator
It was originally posted by Optimus. It uses Dread (24AC) vs the to hit bonus of a Samurai Archer making 16 attacks at triple advantage with Sharpshooter. That calculator takes into account critical hits.
Elven Accuracy does not work with Custom Lineage. Jeremy Crawford has come out clarifying you do not qualify in this sage advice.
The reason HeironymusZot got a low number was because he assumed you would either get advantage or Hex, not both, as that post was made before he was corrected of the prone stuff.
Using the calculator (assuming the Custom Lineage stuff, which personally I agree with HeironymusZot, Custom Lineage doesn't allow you to choose who you are, it allows you to choose your appearance or if you resemble your kin. Resemble and appearance being key words there, but this isn't the thread to argue about that).
16 attacks, +8 to hit, 1d12 + d6 + 15, Elven Accuracy & Advantage, nets a DPR of 254.07 against AC 24, and 218.02 against AC 25.
Funnily enough, against AC 25 you get a DPR of 222.89 if you don't use sharpshooter (SS is better against AC 24 and lower). Guess that frees up a feat.
Edit: Forgot to account for piercer, crit is easy enough. For reroll just added 1.5 to any attack buffed with the reroll 8 (piercer avg) - 6.5 (normal avg) = 1.5, so added 1.5 to two attacks, assuming you hit at least twice (very likely) so I just added 3 to the total DPR. I guess more accurately I'd be adding something like 3 * chance to hit at least twice but close enough.
against 271.90 AC 24 SS, 235.85 against AC 25 SS
240.72 against AC 25 no SS
okay I think that's the final edit for correcting numbers
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Answer: Nice.
Answer: That’s awesome much better than me punching numbers into a calculator ;).
Answer: I have already seen it but I was still showing why I thought otherwise and purposed a build using such a tactic if it were possible.